09/06/2016 The View

Cross-border trade, investment, jobs, farming and immigration -

the EU referendum is building to a climax.

Tonight on a special edition of The View

we're in Londonderry, a city on the border,

with a specially invited audience quizzing a panel

on whether we should Leave or Remain.

Two weeks from now, at locations right across the UK,

counting will be under way in the EU referendum.

Voters are faced with one question: Should the United Kingdom remain

This everning we're in St Cecilia's College in Derry

with a specially invited audience asking questions

of a panel of four - two supporting the Remain camp

This is a city on the border and should the Leave camp win out

it could mean major changes for this part of the world.

However, over the course of the next hour, we'll hear all the arguments

The EU referendum campaign is at its height and tonight we'll

be looking at the issues at the core of this UK-wide debate -

how it will affect life in Northern Ireland and around

This city has been the focus of some very high profile campaigners today.

Earlier, two former Prime Ministers, Tony Blair and John Major,

were in the city visiting the Magee university campus to take

questions from students, both making a united

But here at St Cecilia's, we've our own high profile political

figures with very different points of view taking questions

They are the Sinn Fein MEP Martina Anderson,

who supports Remain, the DUP MP Gregory Campbell,

who wants to leave, as does the People Before Profit MLA

Eamonn McCann, and our fourth panellist is the Fianna Fail TD

from Donegal, Charlie McConalogue, who also wants the UK

Welcome to our studio audience as well. Debtors go straight to our

first question. It is from Jeanette Warke, a Community worker in

Fountain estate. . I haven't made my mind up as to who

to vote for yet. How can you convince me.

There are a number of factors. The first is the cost. We get told

her to spend some of our money that comes back and what restrictions

there are on that money. We have no control over the immigration policy

because you cannot control who comes or goes within the EU. Two years

ago, our economy was growing so fast that the EU level a bill on the UK

of ?1.7 billion. You probably remember that David Cameron said he

was not going to pay it because it was outside the eurozone. David

Cameron said we are not paying it. Six months later we had to pay and

that role is going to grow. The restrictions and bureaucracy will

grow. We shouldn't stay in this Sharapova the European union.

Martina Anderson, I presume you take a different view on most of those

points. How would you convince Janet to remain.

The constituency I care about is my own and well Gregory is right that

the British government make a net contribution to EU, without doubt we

are net beneficiaries. To the chin of 3.5 billion. --

TUNE. The British government has said that it is not going to give us

any reassurance that it will replace that European funding. As well as

the funding, I know you work and many people in the audience work,

and the thing that Sinn Fein does is that we assess every file and

regulation that comes through our desk and see if this will benefit

the people or not. Whether it is worker rights or consumer rights,

they would not be replaced by a hostile and hawkish UK Government.

He probably have a different world view from Gregory Campbell's but as

far as this vote goes, do you agree with him?

I don't agree with him. I can carve out my own political space. One

thing that has confused people in making up their minds is when you

look at the people who are leading the campaigns, when they see RS

Johnson and Nigel Farage facing David Cameron and George Osborne, it

is difficult for a decent person to come down the decisively on one side

or another. In judging whether the EU is a good or bad thing, look at

whether it serves the interests of humanity. I believe that the

European Union is a club for rich people. I do not agree that the

European Union has defended workers' rights at all. You ask why it was

possible for the state to intervene and save jobs such as those at Tata

Steel pinwheels. -- in Wales. That is because it would be against

European competition policy. All I'm saying is we have to consider and

what alternative. This cannot be the best possible thing we can do in the

continent of Europe. Quickly on that.

I do want to come back because as a member of the EU, we have access not

just of the single market at European Court of Justice. There are

a litany of cases, for instance trade unions going to the European

Court of Justice to get low paid workers, mainly women, like a that

the British government would not pay for. If we are out of the year you

you would not only get access to the single market, you're not getting

access to the European Court of Justice. Gregory may not be happy

about that -- Gregory might be happy about that Banega tell you that many

others would not be happy. -- I can tell you.

But he referred to the European Union has erected man's club.

I looked back -- rich man's club. I want to say that Sinn Fein has

been critically engaged with Europe and be very clear about this. We

assess everything that passes are desk to see if it will influence on

benefit the people that we represent. We know there is a

democratic deficit. I can agree with Gregory on that. We are the people

in the area arguing for reform kazoo on a social and democratic Europe

and a better Europe. You want to come back on that.

I have heard some of the main site say they wanted reforms. There is no

more reform if we fought to stay in. The only way of getting reform is to

say to the French and the Germans we have had enough, we are off. If that

happens, the next day both France and Germany will get together and

say we know have a European issue that has to be resolved and other

nations will follow because we have got a liberalising attempt to try

and ensure that this charade finishes and start afresh.

You hope but you cannot be sure of that.

We can certainly be sure that if we vote to stay in than everything will

be the same as it was. You would like to see the collapse

of the European Union. I would like to see I knew you were

independent states can do their own deals and we can cooperation

internationally across borders. You don't have a vote but you do

have a few. I'm in a different desertion in that

I do not have a vote and 94 the chance to talk about the potential

impact on the Republic, on neighbouring people. Although we do

not have a vote, this is one of the more significant referenda as

politically to the taking place in recent years. It is not about

reform. It is about neighbouring countries

but also neighbouring counties. I believe that working together and

staying united with Europe as part of the common market is much more in

the interest of economic development of Northern Ireland.

Is this about self interested in you in the Republic in concerned? I was

talking to Peter Sutherland, the former Attorney General, he said

that Brexit with the biggest crisis for the Republic and a number of

years. You agree with that? I do agree with

that. If the vote is to leave the European Union, that will be a

border with the European Union and that has significant impact in terms

of the potential of Kent is to grow and develop.

Can I ask you something? Two former prime ministers arrived in this city

of Londonderry and a mate Dave Regis suggestion that the peace process

would be jeopardised. There's not a single person that believe that. Why

would they come out with something like that? And it is given some kind

of credibility by the media. Do you agree with that?

I think we should work together. Do you agree with that? If you look

at working together as an important part of the peace process, then that

is I think their argument. But do you agree with that?

We will be talking about other issues including immigration. That

would have massive impact in relation to the development of the

area. Hard to get back to the questioner.

Has that help to you? Or has it made it even more difficult.

I would like to thank the panel for their comments. It has been very

useful. Had you decided?

I am thinking about it. I see a glint in your eyes so are

you wearing or going in one direction or another.

I think I know which way I am going. And are you going to tell us?

I suppose it is a -- no. I suppose it is a secret ballot.

I think the most important thing to be said about the visit of the two

prime ministers is what they had to say about the European issue and the

peace process. John Major and Tony Blair, steeped in blood, coming

amongst us to talk about it as an insult. People like Lear and other

outlaws are coming to us and talking about this.

It is not her Tony Blair sees itself and others in the international

community aid. He made a very constructive contribution to the

process then Northern Ireland. The peace process has been

underpinned, given -- what has given solid back into the peace process is

the will of the people on all sides to engage with one another which

they know is going to be futile. That is what these process is about.

When Blair is marginal to these matters.

Do you believe they have wildly over claimed today? Nobody will be

surprised to hear that anything that former British Prime Minister 's

have had to say to day or in the past has ever influenced me. I can

accept there is a broad feud in opinion but I would listen to a Ukip

representative in the north who yesterday called for the British

Army to come back to the Borders. In terms of our piece process if we

cannot just dismiss that this is not going to have an implication with an

EU border stuck right in the heart of Ireland, for all of my life I

have resisted partition, and to think of what Europe would do for

Borders and checkpoints, we only have to look. Our whole different

argument. It was more than Tony Blair and major lost the plot. What

I want to say, they have not influenced me, but in terms of the

Peace Process, trade, investment, 23,000 people cross the border every

day to work or to study. Those are issues we are going to pick up on

now with the rest of the audience. Let us move on to our second

question. It is from Paul Gosling, a financial journalist raced here.

George Osborne said that the UK leads the EU unemployment in

Northern Ireland will rise by 14,000, including an extra 2000

youth unemployment. Does the panel share that view? 14,000 extra and

implied, is that what you are saying? The honest answer is I do

not know and neither does George Osborne. The idea that people are

giving as precise figures about how employment is going to work, the

rhythm of trade is going to work. They do not know. Look at the

forecasting record of people in the past. The IMF. The European Central

Bank, the British Government, the British Treasury, the Federal

reserve, they all have one thing in common. Not one of them saw the 2008

crash coming even when it was happening. They still could not see

it. Their forecasts over the years and decades have been disastrous.

Why should we listen to them know when they come out with the Digg

this week precise figures about the effect on unemployment. On this do

you think the Chancellor may be right? It is not pro-Europe or

anti-Europe. We do not have too listen to all these people that you

have quoted. Look at the Department of enterprise

trade and investment. The day you P minister in the past. -- bit DUP

minister in the past. They have said they will be a 5% drop. What are

they saying? This is a gateway to 500 million potential customers.

What do they want to do? They want to close that gate. That is their

wrong way to look at it. It is 500 million group of people shutting out

the rest of the world. When we talk about the EU you have to take into

account about freedom of movement of people that people from North

Africa, fleeing for safety for their lives, their aspired wire against

them put up by the EU. They have got freedom of movement to sing to the

bottom of the Mediterranean Sea while people stand alone applauding

the EU. Do you find yourself agreeing with the British

Chancellor? I am not sure where George Osborne got a figure. What

about the principle? It was a decision made it would be negative

for the Northern Irish economy. But you cannot be sure. Look at the

experience of the Republic in joining Europe. When we join to 60%

of exports were going to Britain, today it is less than 20%. Northern

Ireland at the moment is today exports are heavily towards Britain

but there is potential for Northern Ireland to increase exports to the

rest of Europe. And evidently the fact that there was the Troubles

meant it was not able to benefit from trade. This week we had the

latest official trade figures for Northern Ireland which show an

increase in manufacturing exports being driven by sales to countries

outside the European Union, up 28% outside the EU, EU exports up 4%.

Arguably it is already happening. It shows that Northern Ireland is

making progress and finding new markets outside the European Union

but it needs to develop further. It is to develop further its exports to

the European Union. If Northern Ireland is now decide to leave the

European Union and its border between itself and the rest of

Europe it more difficult to feel that capacity to improve upon

itself. EU trade as a share of international trade globally is

declining. It is still very important. It is important but that

is declining. As more countries join the EU, more impoverished countries,

does anybody think that will be reversed? It will continue to be

declined. We should not restrict our markets to Europe but we should go

outside Europe. Youth unemployment is a very important issue. Look at

youth and employment in the Eurozone. 45% youth unemployment in

Spain, in Portugal, in France, countries across the Eurozone, youth

unemployment is soaring. Are we going to stay within that

restrictive club that minimises the impact of entrepreneurship, or get

the odd that I'm into a world that is waiting for the trade that we can

offer them? Let me come back. You have heard a range of opinion. What

is your hunch? Do you think that that precise figure of 14000 and

2000 is a figure that could be arrived at correctly by the

Chancellor? Both campaigns have pretended that they can come up with

accurate figures when they are guessing. I would be astonished if

we left if there was not serious economic damage particularly to a

border city like this. It would be damaging to Derry. A lot of people

are nodding. Does anybody want to make a quick point on this in

Agreement that the Chancellor has got it right? Just in the second row

from the back. You are a businessman with a farming background. We are as

value-added business. The customer base stretchers from the deep South

to the far north of the Republic. The last thing that I need is to

send vehicles that need more controls, more paperwork and perhaps

Tallis to continue my business. I just wonder what the Leave campaign

can assure me about on that particular point estimate we will

come onto Border Controls and a moment but you raise an interesting

point. The complexity is that all the issues are fundamentally

interconnected. You think economic elite you have got a red flag as far

as the is concerned? Yes. Department of biker culture statistics in the

last year, 183 million and, received in environmental support from the EU

236 million. If that stops or that is seriously reduced then there is a

fantastic meltdown of production in agriculture as we know it in

Northern Ireland. What assurances can the Leave campaign bring to me

that will prove to me that I should vote for Leave? All right. Let us

hear from somebody who wants to ask a question which is connected very

much to that. Robert Moore is also a farmer, just outside Derry. You have

got a question that make use up some of those issues. Those figures are

quite correct. My concern is that the net income last year was 53

million less than we get in a total subsidy. That is not sustainable. I

am just wondering, asking the panel, what can the common Agricultural

Policy do to correct that or is the common Agricultural Policy no longer

fit for purpose? Is that policy no longer fit for purpose? That is a

good question and thank you for asking it. I was the only member of

the European Parliament in the north who voted against what was proposed

by Britain, a reduction in the EU budget. I have been saying that a

consequence would routes be a reduction to all the six dedicated

funding streams that come in here. There would be a reduction to

competitive funding streams. 85% of income of farmers comes from the

Common Agricultural Policy and therefore, particularly small

farmers that length and breadth of Ireland, and here in the north, are

reliant on it. Common Agricultural Policy is this all competency of the

EU. It is not the responsibility of the British Government to replace

it. If there is a Leave and a leap into the dark, and we go out and

trade with the world, it took 15 years for there to be a negotiation

with Latin America about bananas. You can see the time frame for a

cheap deal to be put in place with all of these countries. Robert

Moore's pointers even with the policy in place the income of

farmers has fallen significantly. If you put all your eggs in the basket

of the Common Agricultural Policy why would you do that? The British

Government and the other member States putting less money into the

EU, I was the only member of the European Parliament, and I topped

two groups and organisations and businesses, to try to demonstrate to

people the implication that this was going to have for Ireland,

particularly the north. Unfortunately that came to pass.

What is your response? This is nonsense. The issue of Remain or

leave in terms of agriculture, let us look at this. There is a Remain

vote, there is this myth that if there is a Remain vote farmers and

the agricultural community know what they have, as if that will continue

to be the case. It will not continue to be the case. The more countries

that come into the EU, the bigger the June there will be on those

incoming countries. The only certainty about Remain for the

agricultural community is going to be that the amount of money what

ever is faulted for, is going to decline. If we leave we will be able

to control our own destiny with that by that we do not give to you that

which we can then be deployed here. Do you seriously think that a

conservative Chancellor and Westminster would make sure that

that money was redistributed back to places like Northern Ireland rather

than in the Tory heartlands? Why do you assume they're always be a

conservative Chancellor? That is at the moment. The point is they would

be no guarantee at the moment. And there is none if you stay. The only

guarantee is that if you stay the amount for agriculture declines.

That is I guarantee. They are coming in looking for money, the country is

coming in. They have already shown that.

The Northern Irish and British market is very important to the

public. Half of our beef is exported to Britain, two thirds of pegs and a

third of dairy products. Agriculture is a big proportion of the economy

here as well but it is much smaller in Britain.

2 billion euros is going to come in under the Common Agricultural Policy

programme. I have not seen anyone explain with any certainty to the

Northern Irish people what would happen as they would no longer be

the Common Agricultural Policy. Importing beef from other parts of

the world would significantly impact on price.

Why would that happen inevitably? At the moment there are tariffs on

produce coming in. In Britain leaves then they won't have access to CAP

which is significant financial benefit.

On this one, it is not a question of me being persuaded. One of the other

benefits of the CAP is that it has had the benefit of an agriculture in

the third World. Subsidies have been used to guarantee farmers and income

and devastated the income in third World countries. You could say, OK,

it has had that unfortunate effect. Millions of people very badly off.

But large farmers benefited from it. I am happy with that. I am seeing if

you looked at all these things on the effect of the world then I think

it is negative. Letters go back to Roberts, who

asked question. Did that clarify for you that it makes be worth taking

the leap into wrecks it because we would be no worse off? -- Brexit.

I have already decided to leave. The problem I have with the remain

campaign is that it all has revolved around reform. I have picked up no

message of major reform being due. I'm getting increasingly annoyed

with people coming over here and saying that anybody who wants to

vote to leave is somehow giving up on their business. I have been

fighting for my business for 35 years and the idea that anybody who

wants to leave the somehow giving up. Though the reason I am wanting

to get to so I can make decisions on my own business. At the EU doesn't

do it for me, I have to do it myself.

Where are you on this? State aids in European Union wring

some sort of financial equilibria to each member state. The commission

recognised the crisis in agriculture and the dairy industry and he waved

state aids or relaxed state aids in February to allow member states to

put money towards an industry in crisis. I would like to ask Gregory

as a UK representative in London what has he done to progress that

sense February? Could you answer that in a sentence?

The issue is ongoing and has to be. There will be no reform if we vote

to remain. Angela Merkel and others will see you have had your chance.

I want to bring into familiar faces. You were right at the heart of that

visit by John Major and Tony Blair and we have had criticism of that

from some of our panellists but in terms of what we have heard so far

from everybody, a very difficult issue. What do you make up what

you're hearing? I think it is significant that to

former Prime Minister 's who were involved in the peace process

decided to come. Those advocated leaving didn't come and explain the

impact on the border region. To say that it would not impact on the

border region is frankly ludicrous. The EU does need reformed but he is

deluded if he thinks we are in a game that we do not like so we

should take a ball and go home. David Cameron went and it is

negotiating a -- months ago. Do you honestly think that Europe went

through all of that and if there was a remain votes and David Cameron

wanted to reform further they would do it? If we vote to leave then the

alarm bells go on across Europe because there is a liberation.

People will see that their voice has been heard at last.

I think the problem is that there is too much hyperbole and claim and

counterclaim. So if we bleep we are going to be into world War three, a

housing recession, the UK will be broken up. But those who are

advocating to remain are seeing it as the least worst option.

Is that a smirk I detect on your face?

Just my natural happiness. We have to say is logging sets of figures at

each other. Curiously precise yet bizarrely contradictory. I was

tempted to think they are making it up but what is really missing from

both sides is vision. David Cameron has nothing to offer to say here is

something about the European vision. The same with the League campaign.

-- league campaign. They have no idea...

What make the vision be? I agree with that but I think there are

reasons for it. I voted no in 1975 when the

ideological lines were more clearly drawn. Whereas now it seems like a

blue on blue conservative civil war. The only as a resident -- the only

result of this is who will be the next Prime Minister.

Is Boris Johnson going to replace David Cameron? That is not a

question we have to take a position on.

We may get to that question so let us park that. Let us get our next

question from Michaela Lafferty, a shopworkers' union rep..

When campaigners say they want to get rid of EU red-tape, do they

really mean they want to get rid of workers' rights and the protections

it has brought? Is that what you think it is really

about? I have been listening to both sides

of the Conservative administration and it would appear to me that the

Leave campaign include all those industrial relations such as

workers' rights. When you think of the 40 hour week, help and save a at

work, a written contract, all of this has come out of the EU and the

British government had to harmonise their relationship. You can no

longer be sacked because you are pregnant. Maternity leave. The

British government were forced to agree to this. What we have heard

from the league campaign -- Leave campaign...

He was furiously shaking his head. The idea that the guarantor and

source of workers' rights is the EU is not true. Everything was fought

for. Not by the EU. I've heard that quoted on Irish radio.

Do not think the EU has helped in any way on workers' rights?

The statutory holidays in the UK are higher than those laid out in the

EU. But you do not have access to the

European Court of Justice. We are going back, you have made

that point before. I want to go back to the audience.

I think it was seen in all its glory last year when workers stood up in

Greece and elected a government that wanted an end to a story too. --

austerity. What was the reaction from the EU, it was to crush them.

Many things are scraped to the EU. It is amazing that no one has come

along and said, isn't the weather great, Spain is sharing its weather

with us. Somebody in the audience said this debate has been

characterised by ludicrous hyperbole. You are absolutely right

and it is getting worse, not better. You take a very different view from

Michaela and other big unions. Your union has come out for the Leave

campaign. We would sure a lot of what he is

saying. We in no way support the official Leave campaign. It is a

disgrace. There is another bonfire in

preparation in DUP new name and it is a bonfire of public service jobs

and public service is. TTIP is currently in negotiation between the

EU and the US. It is a trade partnership but it effectively opens

up all public services to the market, opening them up to

privatisation and stripping the workforce on them. That is a huge

threat to workers in Northern Ireland. These businesses rely on

money coming from the public sector so private sector jobs are in

trouble as well. I would like to hear what you make

of what you heard from the panel and how comfortable or uncomfortable you

are with Jim and odds like somebody like Patrick.

I don't feel uncomfortable at all. I think we're coming at the same

problem from two different points of view.

And reaching two different conclusions.

From listening to what Martina and Eamon has said, I understand that a

man is obviously not part of the official Leave campaign, but I'm

concerned but what has come out of that campaign video no referring to

my employment writes as burdens to be sold. What they are trying to

sell are my maternity rights, Mike paid holidays that I worked for,

they are my rights. It has come out that of the tens of millions of

pounds they can see from that and that concerns the Winter Cisco does

a burden. On Tuesday I had an hour to spear in

the House of Commons and I went to the committee on sports direct. This

is after 40 years in the EU and what we heard was a litany of abuses that

is going on now, within the past couple of years, so nobody lecture

me about the safeguards of the EU. Go to employees of sports direct.

The rights were not safeguarded. I want to bring in another member of

the audience. His question is high on the agenda for a lot of people. I

am not opposed to immigration but with the numbers coming in at the

moment controls have to be put in place and file beastie in the

European Union that is not possible. It is not possible. The Remain camp

say half of the immigration from outside the EU. So you do not want

to cut it by half? David Cameron gave an assurance a couple of years

ago that he would reduce immigration to the tens of thousands. Most

recent figures, 330,000. That is before the next nations join.

Whatever people might say, whatever hyperbole, whatever about that, park

that, residents and citizens of EU nation States can come and settle in

any part of the EU and they are not going to change that. There is going

to be more. Turkey is in the queue. David Cameron says they will not

come in. We get the footage of him last year. The UK has been to. Yes

but will he use it? Nations are coming in. They have joined the EU

over 40 years. Why does anybody think that is going to stop. There's

immigration always wrong? Not always as long as each national state can

decide its borders, who will come, who will go, what the that are

manageable stop what about the concept of guaranteeing the Common

travel area between the Republic of Ireland and the UK? People are not

clear about the consequences if that is able to leave. I am concerned by

it. I live right beside the border and the implications, it is

important to have control of your own border, and that is a key aspect

of what the Leave campaign is pushing. Back to the start of the

campaign the justice minister and the former Chancellor of the

Exchequer, off outlined that there would be Border Controls if there

was a Brexit. Subsequently, and particularly in Northern Ireland,

when it became clear that the concern was being raised, the

Secretary of State has tried to indicate that would not be the case

but there is a total lack of clarity in relation to what is being

proposed. It is one that would concern myself. Maybe Gregory might

elaborate. People I am talking to are asking about this. There is a

lot of confusion. I will talk about Border Controls specifically in a

moment but I want to talk a bit immigration at the moment. Eamon

McCann, immigration, limits on immigration, that is what Richard

has concerns about and that is an issue for a lot of people. A lot of

people have expressed that view throughout the campaign and maybe an

issue for a lot of people watching at home. What should people be

considering? It is an issue for a lot of people. It comes up as soon

as you talk about the EU. I think we should be open borders. I am in

favour of human beings and able to move where they want to. This has

happened since 10,000 years ago since the dawn of human history.

Human beings have moved. But you support Brexit? How our public

services going to cope? If you had your way the entire world would come

here. If you mean Europe or Northern Ireland, that we are so wonderful

that the entire world would want to come? The whole of Europe does not

want to come. They can if they want to. You can go in the other

direction if you want. That does not happen. That does happen. The

immigration issue is best seen, people from this city helping to run

refuge stations in the islands of the lease. There are present camps

there. People who are only there and incidentally the art fleeing from

areas that the West has rampaged through. He has sparked off the wave

of immigration. I am talking about within the European union. Let us

park that. I want to bring in Sinead McLaughlin who is from the chamber

of, is. You have a supplementary question. In the north-west our

biggest trading partner is the Republic of Ireland. 38% of our

exports are exported to our nearest neighbour. What impact would there

be if Border Controls were put in place? Can I also say regarding

immigration? We in this city benefit from and against coming to work in

our places of employment. We have a net benefit in this city. Our

businesses are in the heart of Europe trying to attract people

here. What is your message to Richard who asked the previous

question who has a concern about unlimited immigration and to say

that everybody could come and live in the UK if there was not a limit

put in place? Your response is? My response is that we need skilled

people in Northern Ireland to work in our factories and workplaces and

businesses, and sometimes we have to look beyond our own borders in order

to get them. It is a reciprocal conversation. That freedom works

both ways and it is a benefit to this region. Respond to the question

about cross-border trade and the possible tee off tougher Border

Controls in the case of Brexit. What we are dealing with is the

humanitarian issue, not immigration issue. Richard, when you consider

that a quarter of the people that we have working in the health service

we would not have if it was not for those people who are coming in with

those skills from Europe, but that said, and let us not forget the 1

million British people who are in Spain and elsewhere. Cross-border

trade? Without doubt you cannot have an island that has got an EU

membership and part of it having a non-EU membership without there

being trade and tariffs. An EU border stuck right in the heart of

Ireland would be devastating for trade, for tourism, for industry,

and what I want to see in developing the all Ireland economy is that that

would be driven further. I do not want to be shackled to put in. I

want to remain in Ireland. Do you share those concerns? No. That is

rich talking about humanitarian issues given her background. Let us

look at that. Remain never tops about Common travel area which

allows for that. To read, if there was a Leave vault hummer the people

of the Irish Republic and the Government of the Irish Republic

would not want to see any checkpoints to restrict trade.

Neither would the people or the Government of Northern Ireland so

why would they happen? If people in the public do not want them and

people in Northern Ireland do not want them why is it only the Remain

camp that insist they will call to be here? You want to respond to what

Gregory said. When Gregory runs out of an argument he wants to go back

to the past, but not the causes of the conflict. It does not want to go

back to why they ended up in a conflict in the first place and the

role that people like him and his constituency played. Let us not

forget that here we are to the with the families that I took to Europe

being able to have a judgment that shows there was collusion. Bloody

Sunday. I am responding to your remark about your managerialism. Let

us leave it at that. A quick response to the issue specifically

raised about Border Controls and what impact that might have two

cross-border trade. During the last 43 years there has been a tremendous

trading relationship across the borders. The Republic of Ireland

want it, Britain wanted, Northern Ireland want, they will continue to

be that relationship. What you are not recognising, Gregory, is that

the public, should Britain and Northern Ireland leave, the Republic

would be one of 27 other members and we would not be negotiating. It

would be the 27 members. It would be the 27 members of the European Union

would negotiate with Britain and Northern Ireland in terms of what

tariffs might replace it. I want to get one more question in very

quickly but before I do that I want to get a comment from what tougher

Border Controls would mean for your business? The effect of border on

tourism and Northern Ireland in the north-west, and I hear all the

argument is, but the thought of any sort of border, the effect that

would have on to list in the north-west would be devastating.

Tourism is creating more jobs at a faster rate than any other sector in

Northern Ireland and the border would cut that off. I do not see how

you could want that in this part of the world. Only two miles away from

where we sit. Thank you. A very quick question and a very quick

answer. From the principle of the college year. No matter the outcome

of the referendum can the panel see Boris Johnston in number ten by

Christmas? Nightmares sometimes come true. I do not think it is going to

happen. I am sorry that we did not get to talking about human rights in

relation to immigration within the EU. Not your fault. There is a lot

of aspects that that is what I am passionate over in relation to the

EU and we did not get to it. I concur with Eamon McCann as somebody

that has been working very hard on the issue. It is irrelevant.

Whatever happens after this what we need on the table as RFL in them on

border control. We need to engage in a conversation about Irish unity,

that is the direction of travel regardless of the outcome. I do not

think he will be a successor for David Cameron. It is unfortunate the

way the internal party politics and ambition has played a big role in

terms of Boris Johnsonpos-macro in this campaign and attracting the

attention of the media during the campaign. We should not allow the

issue of George Osborne, Boris Johnston or somebody else being the

next leader of the Conservative Party to colour the judgment on this

fundamental issue. For generations to come to the next Prime Minister

as may or may not happen. But you are a fan of Boris Johnson? You are

on the same side of the campaign customer as Eamon McCann? Are you

suggesting I would support Eamon McCann? I am not particularly a fan

of Boris Johnson that he is in the right in regards to this. Whether he

is the next Prime Minister is a different issue. You could say you

are not a fan of Eamon McCann. You are there as well.

Well, that's all we have time for tonight -

so we say goodnight from Derry and our referendum special.

Thanks to our panel, our audience and, of course, to everyone

here at St Cecilia's College for being so welcoming.

Join me for Sunday Politics at 11.50 here on BBC One.

For now, though, from everyone here, bye bye.

We are the north, the south, the east and the west.

The fathers, mothers, sisters and brothers.