16/06/2016 The View

The political world in shock after the murder

Tonight on The View, we hear the thoughts of two local MPs

on the killing that took place on the streets of her constituency.

Tonight, tributes from Westminster and around the world

have been pouring in for the 41-year old Labour MP

for Batley and Spen, who was shot and stabbed this afternoon.

A mother of two young children, Jo Cox was elected to Westminster

Nothing made me pride on the 8th of May two be sent to this place with

an increased Labour majority, proving again nonconformity in my

neck of the woods is what we do best.

We'll hear the thoughts of two of her Westminister colleagues -

the DUP's Nigel Dodds and the SDLP's Margaret Ritchie.

Plus, as we enter the marching season, a senior member

of the Orange Order asks is it time to re-examine plans brought forward

by the DUP and Sinn Fein to reform parading?

If memory serves me correctly it was the Orange institution that rejected

it at that stage, so that was I would view a bit of an all-new goal

-- an own-goal. And with their thoughts

on all of the above, Chris Donnelly and Dawn Purvis

are in Commentators' Corner. David Cameron called

her "a great star - "a great campaigning MP with

huge compassion and a big heart". Jeremy Corbyn called her

"a much-loved colleague, "who died listening

to and representing the people Today's murder of Jo Cox has

shaken the Westminster village to its foundations,

but the shock and hurt The US Secretary of State,

John Kerry, called her death "an assault on everybody who cares

about and has faith in democracy". The deputy leader of the DUP,

Nigel Dodds, is with me now, along with the former

SDLP leader Margaret Ritchie and our Political Editor

Mark Devenport. Good evening to you all, thank you

for joining us on the programme tonight. Nigel Dodds, it is a

dreadful shock, an MP murdered on the streets of Britain. It is

actually shocking event and one of those days which really casts a very

long shadow, and one where people will remember where they were when

they have the news, and I was carrying out constituency advice

surgery myself, meeting people, just as I'm sure Jo was earlier today,

going about her business as a constituency MP and for this to

happen is truly horrific and words fail you, especially when you see

the reaction or her husband and the thought of her two young girls left

without a mother. It's truly heart-rending and awful, and you

know, those of us in Northern Ireland who have experienced some of

that kind of situation, where attacks happen on public

representatives, we know too well the heart and feelings people must

be going through in her constituency, so our hearts go out

to her family most of all and to the Labour Party and all colleagues at

this time, early very difficult. Margaret Ritchie, you did not know

her well but did to top two in the tearooms and the corridors, it seems

in a short period of time she made remarkable impression on people. --

to talk to. First of all, I want to express my sympathy is on my own

behalf and from the SDLP for Jo's husband, her children, her

constituents and the wider Labour movement, we in the S deal be a

sister party and Jo sat down in the trenches -- we in the SDLP are a

sister party. And Jo and myself sat in the benches. It is very

difficult, something that has an unspeakable tragedy for them, but it

is something that everybody in public life faces, that element of

risk, whether you are an MP, a public servant like a teacher or

doctor, nurse or care assistant, that is always that element of risk,

but I suppose for us, constituency offices, are staff at the front in

for us when we are in Westminster because they are dealing with

constituents on our behalf and then we are meeting them in those

situations, and always, people come to us as the final Avenue, seeking a

solution to a problem, and we are very happy to help them. Nigel, it

brings into sharp focus that notion of democratic accountability,

because they expect MPs to be accessible to us as members of the

public, and you want to be as accessible, meet constituents, hear

their concerns and help them. Yes. And when something like this

happens, serious questions are asked. How do you think that balance

needs to be struck? It is a difficult balance and recently the

House of Commons sent out advice to MPs saying you should take

precautions, only do surgery is by appointment, make sure you know who

is likely to come and see you, but we know, Margate, and all -- we

know, Margate, all parties, knows it is difficult to stick to that. We go

into public life, nobody forces us into public life, most politicians

of all parties go in out of your conviction to help people. Sometimes

we get that press but most politicians I have come across,

Republican, nationalist, Unionist, are in it because they believe in

what they believe in and want to serve people, but you've got to

battle personal security against accessibility. Most people I find

error on the side of accessibility, because they believe they are out

there to serve people. -- err. And the day we lose that accessibility

will be a bad day for democracy in which the terrorists and evil people

triumph, so we have to try as much as possible to keep the door open to

constituents. Mark Devenport, a profound shock for the Westminster

political village, but extends way beyond that? Absolutely, listening

to the tributes paid to Jo Cox, obviously a very popular young MP

around Westminster. My colleague James Landale. About the moment

around the Westminster village when people stopped and could not believe

what they were hearing. Certainly, when listening to radio reports

earlier today, the Labour MP she worked for as an assistant, and a

Conservative MP she worked with on the issue of Syrian refugees, spoke

about her in very warm terms, then suddenly, the radio broadcast went

over to that police news conference announcing her death and you could

hear visible emotion amongst colleagues that they could not

believe what they were hearing. Obviously, it will be up to the

detectives on the case to work out what motivation if any her assailant

had, but this comes at a time when that has been quite a bit of an

article rhetoric on both sides of the referendum debate and we see

unprecedented reaction to what has gone on, both the Remain and Leave

campaigns officially suspending their campaigns and tonight, whilst

we are proceeding, talking about the whole issue of security, we are not

talking about European matters, and also the BBC's question time

programme, they have been stopped for tonight, which is highly

unusual, but a sign of the gravity of the situation and the fight

obviously be campaigns are both suspended so guests are not

available to talk about those matters. -- and the fact. We have to

continue with political functions but do not want to be disrespected

to the family of Jo Cox. And people watching this will be aware that

prominent political figures, public figures in Northern Ireland, have

been all too aware of the risks that they have been under, I suppose, in

public life for many years? For a considerable amount of time, sadly,

and hopefully we are moving out of those days, but maybe there will

always be risks, as both Nigel and Margaret have said, in terms of MPs

having to be assessable to the public, not knowing who will the

door next, but looking at the list of MPs murdered, going back a long

way, sadly obviously those who have been murdered in relation to

Northern Ireland by the IRA, the INLA, a very long one. And if you

look around Stormont come under our clerks they are clerks therefore

former speaker killed by Republicans, and two senators, one

of them killed by the official IRA and one killed by loyalists. This

has been around in Northern Ireland politics for a long time. The peace

process has helped but threats of various kinds of their online, or

potentially in the constituency offices, and we saw with Naomi Long,

as those still exists and have to be dealt with and that is no perfect

way of ensuring security for somebody who is a public figure. And

of course Republican levels -- Republican political figures

targeted by loyalists? Yes, most of the MPs targeted were being targeted

by Republicans, but here, we did see the likes of Gerry Adams being shot,

and Benedict McCarthy, attacks going in differing directions. And Senator

Paddy Wilson was targeted by loyalists. The likes of Nigel Dodds

has had direct experience of what it is like. Nigel, I don't want to open

difficult issues for you, but this must have struck a cord with you on

a very personal level, your family, today? Yes, I was seeing to somebody

the other day that it is 20 years ago, which is hard to believe that

it is that long, the attack on me in the Royal that the hospital when I

was visiting my young boy. -- Royal Victoria Hospital. A long time past

and many colleagues in my party and the SDLP and the republican

community and elsewhere have all had targeting and attacks on them and

people have almost become used to the possibility of letter bombs at

one stage and all of that, so yes, I think Northern Ireland politicians

relate to this very, very strongly and that's why we feel so much for

the family, because we know what it is like to go through this kind of

terrible thing, but I think Marcus Wright, hopefully we are coming out

of those days, but another terrible threat, the threat that people face

from people who may be individually arranged for the new threat of

Islamist terrorism, which everybody seems exposed to. Margaret, do you

think that today's tragic events will change anything in Westminster?

Will it alter the way in which you do your job when you go to London or

indeed when you are at home in your constituency, trying to talk to

people? We always must remember we are elected to serve and deliver a

service to constituents, and by the very nature of that, we will make

her accessible to the public. But I would imagine that Westminster will

provide us with further advice within the next number of days about

how we should deal with our own personal security, high we should

deal with staff security, because we have staff at Westminster and at

constituency offices. But you can balance that risk against the needs

and requirements of your constituents. And of the wider

constituency. Representing rural constituency I am required to go the

and breadth on the northern end down to Warrenpoint and from Newcastle

down to Banbridge. A very heavy constituency, which cannot be dealt

solely by constituency office work. It needs be at weekends being out in

the constituency, which I am very happy and want to do. OK. It is an

unimaginably difficult day for the family of Jo Cox and friends and

thank you very much indeed. And we can never forget her in this

particular instance, nor her husband or her children. Hear, hear. Thank

you for joining us tonight. Now, a leading Orangeman

has told this programme that the Orange Order's rejection

of plans to reform parading Darryl Hewitt, who's

the Portadown District Master, said the plans brought forward

by the DUP and Sinn Fein in 2010 to find a political

consensus on parading? Our Political Correspondent

Stephen Walker's been finding out. We are we we are and we have to move

on, we have to move forward. We need a new beginning for parading, the

current system is in is not sustainable. I still think we still

can resolve the issue. The issue is dialogue. Back in 2010, it looked

like the whole issue of parading was going to be resolved. The DUP and

Sinn Fein agreed proposals, including abolishing the Parades

Commission and introducing a new arbitration and mediation service,

along with a code of conduct for marchers and residents, but the

plans did not get the support of the Orange Order. Now some think it is

time to revisit the 2010 plan. All additions did bring up the agreement

five or six years ago and I think if memory serves me correctly it was

the Orange institution that rejected it at that stage, so that was I

would view a bit of an own-goal but we are aware we are and have to move

on, we cannot look backwards but have to move forward. But on

reflection was that a mistake by the Orange Order? It was slightly

mishandled by the institution but I was not involved, I cannot member of

grand Lodge but was disappointed that it was rejected. If the Orange

and other royal orders are key so I residents groups. The preferred

option is always accommodation but in the absence of agreement you will

always need some sort of independent adjudicator. And I think that there

was work being done on that over the past number of viewers and I think

that probably needs to be taken forward.

So is it time to act? They've got enormous mandates, particularly in

the DUP, to do almost whatever they want, certainly anything that seemed

to be at all reasonable. If they don't do it now, I think you can

question are ever going to do it. I think the critical thing here is not

Sinn Fein and the DUP sitting down and agreeing a new beginning for

parading, it is about getting the key stakeholders, the Orange order,

the residents, those with an interest. So it is critical of those

discussions and the debate continues. So what is the Orange

Order's official view? A spokesman told this

programme: it is clear that local solutions have had some effect in

reducing tension. This is what the Parades Commission had to say.

So so what would a new deal on parading look like? If the Parades

Commission were abolished, there would have to be fresh ideas on

arbitration and mediation, and a new set of guidelines and a code of

conduct for marching and residents. And all the plans would have to be

endorsed by the political parties, community groups and the loyal

orders. Sinn Fein say much has changed since the 2010 proposals

were tabled. Things have improved. There is a better atmosphere for

dealing with these things, up in the Assembly as well, so let's hope we

can move forward on that basis. But some of it is very basic. In

Londonderry dialogue is seen as key, which has led to an accommodation

between residents, businesses and the apprentice boys. You've got to

listen to the other side, what they say and understand what they are

about. This is what we did in Derry and what needs to be done in the

north of Ireland across all parading issues. And he believes time is now

short. I think this is a great opportunity for the First Minister

and Deputy First Minister, they've had a clear window without

elections, and I would advise them to grasp this issue, let's create a

formula which mirrors the Derrey model but has its own framework for

local issues. Arlene Foster and Martin McGuinness have much

unfinished business. Striking a deal on parading that carries the support

of residents and the loyal orders could enhance their claim that a

fresh that really has begun. And with me in the studio

is Peter Osborne, the former chair

of the Parades Commission, who now heads up the

Community Relations Council. You were appointed chair of the

Commission in 2011, one year after the Orange order stock those DUP/

Sinn Fein plans. Are they no worth revisiting? Whenever I talk to

people over the last year or two certainly, I think there is a

growing consensus around some of these things. I would look at the

2013, 2014, Stormont house agreement, I think the parties were

saying these issues have to be devolved, they were saying there

needs to be a body that looks at making decisions around parades, a

body looking at mediation. They talk about criteria, the code of conduct.

So I think the nuances and the messages and the mood music in the

report are quite positive, because I think there is a consensus growing

around that, within communities, within political parties. The issue

is of course how we get there. Some of the later developments are to

some extent, some people might say, aspirational, but there is a bit of

detail in that 2010 deal about some of the nitty-gritty, some of the

more difficult issues. Which has clearly been agreed in the past by

them, which if you resurrected it now would actually potentially take

you forward in leaps and bounds. There

are lots of details about the 2010 proposals, some are mirrored in the

2013 proposals, some in the discussions we saw from that report.

For example, some big-ticket issues, can this issue be devolved? I think

everybody is saying, yes like, let's devolve it. Can the Assembly hall to

account a body like the Parades Commission? I think they can, very

robustly. -- hold to account. We want this openness and transparency

in this discussion. The point about 2010, 2013 and 2014 is hugely

important, because this is about dialogue, this is about people being

motivated to find agreement, but building relationships, about

showing leadership. So local ownership of the process is

important. Yes, if you look back 1015 years, there would have been

places on the tip of a time when it came to disputes around parading. We

don't think about those places now because of local agreements that

have been facilitated or decisions taken that people have accepted as

fair and balanced. What that comes down to at the end of the day is, do

local people have the motivation to reach an agreement which might mean

compromise, have they got relationships and trust, is their

agreement to drive forward and initiative or get the backs of

people participating in one. Londonderry has shown what can be

done, but he is quite right to say there is not a model, but there are

principles that are really important and have been shown to work time and

time and time again. Is this to do with just a wider political maturity

that has taken place, we now have the template of what has happened in

the North West, we seem year after that it can work and will work, so

that's an example to other places to follow that lead, but also

politicians on the ground and at Stormont are in a better place than

six years ago? Is that what you're saying? I think Derry Londonderry

has shown what can happen when there is a generous majority and a

reciprocation from a generous minority. It is in everybody's

interests to make things work, and they are doing incredibly well. You

get a sense there is a different political field to things, but also

a lot of this is common sense. Whenever you have a dispute around

parading or anything else, we cannot walk alone, we cannot resolve these

issues on one side of the community alone. If we're going to resolve the

issues at a local issue -- Neville, people have to be mindful what

people on the other side of the believe. -- at a local level. Then

you can progress to a resolution that meets the needs of both sides

of the community. That's what they've done in Derry Londonderry.

We understand the Portadown district has offered to talk to local

residents. Is that the kind of meeting you think should take place?

The Portadown dispute has been going over many years now, and all of the

utmost respect everybody involved -- for everybody. The conversations

I've had with people the show, and if that review the Commission did 23

years ago showed an overwhelming majority of people in Portadown want

to move on from this. -- two or years ago. But there was a

reluctance to talk to local residents. One of the things I would

say is that sometimes the tactics have got in the way of the tactics.

I think one of the things the distributor think about is as they

apply and try to walk down the road every Sunday, which they still do,

every single Sunday, they parade to the bridge, the police stopped them.

While they are doing that, and on the other hand saying we want to

talk, sometimes one tactic actually gets in the way of another. I think

the Portadown district should think about suspending this parades for a

period of time while they look at what options are around. I'm not

sure they will see whether there are options until they start to look

differently at the weekly parade. So if they were to do that and suspend

or call of their weekly parade, the offer for talks might be more warmly

received by people who live locally? Locally I think people will say this

issues is in the past and they are not good to be visited, but the

district will not know the options until they look differently at the

weekly parade, because I think it gets in the way, to look for a

weekly parade were also saying we want to see options for moving this

thing forward. At the launch of the people's Park last year, the

messages coming from unionists, nationalists, Republicans alike, was

that Portadown is looking to the future, and we are now looking

beyond 2016. One last thing, what would underpin any movement on

parades is the Commission on flags, identity and culture. And allowing

them to get on with the job in hand. Has anyone in Stormont been in touch

with you in the community relations Council in terms of identifying

targets, building on the work we've already done to move that process

forward? There's a lot of work the council is doing specifically on

that Commission they have not, I'm not aware of that. And that

something you regret? No, I think they've applied for people to be

part of the Commission. I'm not so worried about a couple of months

delay in appointing those people, my issue is I think that Commission has

a great opportunity to take us forward into different places and

when cultural identity. I think our society is so rich in culture on

both sides of the community, is about getting the best out of both

main traditions and the other communities coming in. And new

intercultural Northern Ireland. My concern is I don't think it is an 18

month project, but a two, three year project. But if they do it right,

it's a huge opportunity to take us forward for a new perspective on

these issues. And that prospect of a possible

resolution on parades will no doubt elicit some strong views

in commentators corner Welcome to you both. Let's talk

about parades. Is there do you think, having seen that report, a

chink of light that seemingly intractable problems might at last

be sold? I think what we've seen over the last number of years is

that the parade has become less -- less of an issue. The Sting has been

taken out of parades, there have been quiet conversations taking

place between the loyal orders and residents' groups, and that always

did it to happen, and I think when the Orange order allowed talks at a

local level, that facilitated the local lodges in making that work. I

also think that progressive elements, and there is a difference

in Belfast and Derry and other lodges West, so there is I think

more pressure coming from more urban centres to try and resolve all of

these issues. And I do think the statement and a report earlier

provides hope for that. Chris, are you optimistic? Well he said the

rejecting the deal at St Andrews was an own goal. In relation to

Drumcree, it's a case that the match is over, the teams have left the

pitch. It's a problem that's solved, and I think the better atmosphere

surrounding parades, other than the Crumlin Road won over the past

decade, has been perhaps because there has been a recognition across

society that we are moving forward. Revisiting those issues, like

Portadown, would endanger us in a sense, the hostilities that existed

for a good decade in the early part of the century created problems in

parades and a lot of areas that have now fizzled out. And parades are

taking part -- placed more normally. The match is probably over for one

side, but probably not the other. I think the terms of the plate will

change, because of this field is unfinished business. -- the play.

Let's talk about the other issue, the murder of Jo Cox. When we expect

our MPs to be available to members of the public, they can be

vulnerable. Yes, and I think cynicism can carry -- characterise

discussions about politicians. That can cloud people's recognition that

the overwhelming number of politics -- politicians I think are motivated

by a desire to serve for the public good. Nigel Dodds made the point,

Unionists, Republicans, right across the spectrum, if we look at Jo Cox,

her background, she served as a policy for Oxfam, she was a

passionate advocate for Syrian civilians. And for the people of

Palestine. So clearly she was motivated by the common good. Her

husband we did very well when he said, she had a zest for life that

would exhaust most people. And the murder was condemned across

the board, which we reflected, but also locally by the First Minister,

Deputy First Minister and the leaders of the Ulster Unionist Party

and the SDLP. Yes, an attack on our democracy when one of ministers is

attacked and no doubt Jo made her stamp in Parliament and in her

constituency in one short year in public life, but will certainly be

remembered for the moves she has made, she has been praised for her

work on bringing Syrian refugees to the UK, so she certainly left her

mark. We are looking on screen at some of the tweets from various

political figures. And also one from the Alliance Party. She talks about

heartbreaking news. Reflecting I think the shock that has been felt.

As I said within the Westminster bubble and way beyond it. Yes, and

the point was made earlier in what I thought was a very good discussion

with Nigel Dodds and Margaret Ritchie. We have come from that

background and know what it is like in terms of politicians being

targeted. We are moving forward, but this is a stark reminder of a dark

time. Doran, you were that elected representative, that public figure,

high marks that this way on your mind? -- is Dawn Purvis, you were

that elected representative. You are vulnerable but have to be aware of

your own security but also remain open and accessible and if you are

in public life your door has to be open, you are there to serve the

public and the public come in all shapes and sizes, people who are

very articulate and well versed in what they want help with and others

who are far more vulnerable but your door remains open for them all.

Thank you both very much indeed. That's it from The View

for this week. Join me for Sunday Politics

at 11.35, here on BBC One.