16/03/2017 The View


16/03/2017

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For five years he's been the man in charge

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of the Ulster Unionist Party, but not for much longer.

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Tonight, in his first broadcast interview since

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he announced his resignation, Mike Nesbitt reflects

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As he leaves the party with just ten MLAs at Stormont,

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does Mike Nesbitt regret those pre-election comments

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But it wasn't because of what I said about the SDLP, it was because of

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what Arlene Foster said about Republicans. That crocodile comment

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really did serve as a lightening rod that incredibly energised

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nationalists and republicans. With the prospect of a border

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poll back on the agenda, we hear the views of border

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Protestants on Irish unity. I'd rather the border disappeared

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and we were governed by London because I value the NHS in here.

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Also tonight, we're live in Washington as President Trump

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hosts his first St Patrick's Day reception at the White House.

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And putting their heads together in Commentators' Corner

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are columnist Alex Kane and Allison Morris

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After five years in charge of the Ulster Unionists,

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Mike Nesbitt is preparing for a new life out of the spotlight.

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He's kept his counsel since announcing his intention

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to stand down at that dramatic election night press conference

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almost a fortnight ago, but tonight he's broken his silence

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to give his first broadcast interview to The View.

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When he came into the studio earlier, I began by asking him if it

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had ever crossed his mind during the campaign that it

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It was a very hard election to predict. I have fought a number of

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elections since 2010 actually if you count being a candidate, a campaign

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manager and party leader, nine in seven years. And this was the

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hardest to call. So yeah, when you're out on canvass you think what

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if it goes well? What if it goes badly? And it didn't go well? It go

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well in terms of the seats and there is no point me saying to you we put

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18% on to our first preference that some people did exceptionally well

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like Robin Swann put his own vote up 37% because the fact is that 16

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seats in 108 seater Assembly is the equivalent of 13.3 in a 90 seater,

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we came back with ten. That's three down. And we couldn't afford to drop

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one and the buck stops with me. And the reality is those figures are

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interesting, but the figure that really counts is you had 16 and you

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have ten. You ran 24 candidates. You told me in a pre-election interview

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you believed you would win nearly all those seats and you won ten. How

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many, when we were having that conversation, did you really think

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you could win? What I said to you from memory is that we basically

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needed to win just about all of the 24 if we were going to replace the

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DUP because most of them would have been wins off the DUP. Although

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ironically our bun big success in East Antrim, John Stewart, took the

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seat off Sinn Fein. As Tom Elliott had taken the seat off Sinn Fein in

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the Westminster election in 2015. Did you believe you could win nearly

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all the 24 seats or were you just talking it up? No, I thought it was

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possible because it was a very, very difficult election to predict, but

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if you were in a normal democracy and that was the pitch that I made,

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you would say to yourself well, look we're going to the polls because of

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a scandal which reeks of incompetence and arrogance and

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cronyism and all the rest plus we've had ten years and three-man dates of

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the same two parties in the equivalent of ten Downing Street and

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Stormont Castle running the Government. So, the pitch was,

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folks, you can reward the Government if you really think they've done a

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good job and give them another mandate or for the first time in the

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96 year history of Northern Ireland you can actually say we'll dump the

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parties of Government and we'll give the opposition a turn and had there

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been a tsunami of support for that concept, then we could have come

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very close to 24, but there wasn't. Yes. Some people have said that it

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all went wrong for you during that interview in fact. That your

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comments on Sunday Politics in which you confirmed you would be giving

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your second preference to the SDLP rather than to thor unionist

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ultimately cost you your job? There is no evidence of that and I would

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like to see the evidence. No doubt in time as people reflect on the

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election we will get to that point. So all I can talk about Mark is

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anecdotal and that's not a firm foundation for opinion, but I was

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campaigning in Strangford which is a particularly heavily Unionist

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constituency and I would have said conservatively the reaction was

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about three to one positive reaction to what I had said. And then you

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look at one of the high casualty, high-profile casualties like Danny

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Kennedy who polled over 7,000 votes, that's 2,000 more than I got in

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strong ford and he didn't get elected, but it wasn't because of

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what I said about the SDLP it was because of what Arlene Foster said

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about republicans. That crocodile comment really did serve as a

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lightening rod that incredibly energised nationalists and

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republicans and that was the real quote of the election and the real

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consequence was the result that put Sinn Fein just a seat behind the

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DUP. It is fair to say, isn't it, not all your colleagues and indeed,

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former colleagues agree with your analysis, Sam Gardener says in

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today's Newsletter that that statement on Sunday Politics

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amounted to political suicide. He said you have shown a lack of people

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skills and Jo-Anne Dobson lost her seat and she says your comments cost

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her that seat. She said it was a get out of jail card for the DUP? I'm

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not going to wash the party's dirty linen in public. That's the position

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we were in in 2012-I took over the leadership. If you look at the

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election results there was a highly energised nationalist and republican

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vote. I did not energise a single one of those additional voters. So

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just to be clear before we move on. You do not regret what you said

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about transferring to the SDLP on Sunday Politics? No, what I said was

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vote Ulster Unionist and vote for any candidate that you trust to do

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the right thing, but on a personal basis because of the circumstances

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you found myself in, living and voting in east Belfast and because

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of the DUP candidate, who was being recommended to me for a preference,

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that I could not do it because it would have been the height of

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hypocrisy to do that and therefore, as a small gesture, I was going to

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give a preference to a candidate who was never going to get enough votes

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to qualify for any preferences because he went out in the first

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round. Was the difficulty for you that members of your party didn't

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understand exactly what it was that you were saying because you hadn't

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prepared them for it? And also, on the other hand, Colum Eastwood

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didn't reciprocate on the programme? I heard commentators saying he

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didn't bring the party with him. There were some clues there, Mark,

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party conference, I invited Colum Eastwood to come and speak. The

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party gave him a standing ovation. Later in my remarks I said vote

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Colm, get Mike to counterbalance the idea the them and us that was so

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prevalent again on 2nd Marchment the clues were there. Our manifesto said

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for a proper partnership. My message was a partnership of the winning,

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not two parties the DUP and Sinn Fein who share that space at

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Stormont Castle not because they want to, but because the law says

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they have to. I want to talk about mixed messaging. People have said

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that the difficulty was that Ulster Unionist Party voters didn't know

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what Mike Nesbitt and the Ulster Unionist Party stood for. You

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referenced the vote Mike, vote Colm. When you took over five years, you

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talked about a modern progressive unionism. Then we had this electoral

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pact for the general election back in 2015. A lot of people don't know

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what direction you were trying to take the party. Well, let's go back

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to five years ago. I had only been in the party two years and I'd only

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been elected a number of months when I became leader as Harold Macmillan

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said you have to react to events and the events of the day, we were in

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the mouth of the centenary of the covenant. So unionism was being very

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reflective, it was quite inward looking at the time. There was a

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concern about what the Parades Commission might do to the centenary

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parade so people were looking to Peter Robinson and Mike Nesbitt to

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stand shoulder-to-shoulder. It they were being nostalgic about united we

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stand and divided we fall. I went with the flow, even though it might

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have been counter-intuitive. Were you uncomfortable? That doesn't

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appear to be modern, progressive unionism? My idea of progressive

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modern unionism is unionism of partnership and what I dislike about

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the DUP is that they are promoting a unionism of domination and so you

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have the rogue and the renegade ministers. You have the crocodile

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comment and that unionism of domination is a shortcut to a united

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Ireland. If we want the union to be safe, you've got to maximise the

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number of people who are too busy making money, educating their

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children, accessing a Health Service without having to pay for and all

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the other benefits of the union. But what you're effectively saying, it

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is Arlene Foster and the DUP's fault for Mike Nesbitt's failure as leader

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of the Ulster Unionist Party, is that what you're saying? What I

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believe in is a partnership of the winning and I see that as a moderate

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way forward between the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP and I put

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that to the electorate on two occasions, Mark. And on both

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occasion they have voted or the alternative? I have gone out twice

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in an Assembly saying let's make this Stormont's first ever post

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sectarian election. Last May we really binged on policy, not just on

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manifesto, but no fewer than eight policy documents and we didn't add a

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single seat. I went out this time and said let's make it a post

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sectarian election and we dropped seats. So I've nothing else to

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offer. It is my only vision. That's not the direction that members of

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the Ulster Unionist Party or Ulster Unionist voters want to go? But

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you're selling them the wrong message. Do you accept that? No, we

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put 18% on a first preference vote. Those are not the figures that

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count. It does show you something in terms of people buying into the

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message. Does that mean that Arlene Foster in your view is a credible

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overall leader for unionism? My focus is on the Ulster Unionist

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Party, we will shortly elect a new leader. That new leader will have my

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100% support. I do hope and it will be no surprise to the new leader

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that he or she continues with the idea of a coalition of the willing,

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a moderate unionism and not this unionism of dom thation. Do you

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believe that the future of unionism is safe in Arlene Foster's hands?

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Arlene Foster may come back as First Minister. This is a matter for

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speculation. I'm focussed on the Ulster Unionist Party. But there has

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been a lot of talk since the election about the prospect of

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closer relations within unionism and the prospect frankly of unionist

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unity. How concerned are you that your successor, whoever that might

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be, decides the way to move unionism and wants to build a closer

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relationship between the UUP and the DUP and perhaps sees a better future

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with unionism with those two parties merged? You've made references to

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mixed messages as a negative and I get that, that's fair enough, but

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let's look back to 2015 and the general election and I was reading a

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couple of days ago one of the newspaper editorials was citing it

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as possibly the finest example of unionist co-operation in the modern

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era. The north Belfast, Fermanagh was my idea. It got expanded out to

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four constituencies. What happened there, was incredibly mixed message

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because we were co-operating with the DUP to try and win Fermanagh and

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in south Antrim we were competing with them and took a seat off

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William McCrea. Let's fast forward to 2017. A good idea or a bad idea?

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Danny won south Antrim for the Ulster Unionist and Tom Elliott won

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Fermanagh and south Tyrone. You're trying to ride two horses there. I'm

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asking you to pick a horsement pick a horse. I don't have to. You don't

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have to pick a horse? Danny won and Tom won on two different platforms,

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competing and co-operating at the same time in the same election, we

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competed and we also challenged the DUP. What do you think the future

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holds for you now? Will you remain as a MLA for the full Assembly term?

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Well, I was elected to serve the people of Strangford and I will do

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that for those who voted for me, those who voted for others and those

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who didn't vote at all and that was the position since I was elected.

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You won't leave early? I have no intention of leaving early. There is

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plenty I want to do both in terms of constituency projects and also

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projects in terms of promoting unionism in this country. Any truth

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in the rumour that you fancy the role of Speaker? I would think it

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would be unlikely. Fair enough. What about a seat in the Lords? No.

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Ruling that out. OK. Do you have any regrets about changing your career

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path from well obviously journalism, you were a victims' commissioner to

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going down the route of seeking elected office? I think, I'll not

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bore you with the family history, but it is out there in speeches I've

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made. There is a kind of path that explains going from sports reporter

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to news to victims' to politics. And it's about trying to make this

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country a better place for the next generation. Mike Nesbitt in

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reflective mood earlier today. Shane Harrison in

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Washington, thank you. Things are different this year. They

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are very different because there is a new and very different president

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it has to be said who is putting America first and who is making a

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big play of issues such as the illegal or undocumented immigrants

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and it is the first time in recent years that there has been a

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reception without the First Minister and Deputy First Minister. At

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breakfast the main speech was given by the head of the Civil Service who

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painted an optimistic picture to the way the negotiations are going on at

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Stormont. He seemed to be more hopeful than perhaps people might

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think. Behind me, there is a reception going on. Just after the

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presentation of the bowl of shamrock, Gerry Adams and Ian

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Paisley are both present. Enda Kenny has been talking to

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president Trump and he has been making the case forcefully for the

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undocumented Irish? He has and he has been doing that all week at

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various stages on his trip here in Philadelphia, in Boston and here in

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Washington. He seems to be pushing for the idea that the Irish should

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be getting some sort of special treatment, but I can tell you from

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speaking to people on both sides of the House in Congress and indeed,

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some senators that is not going to happen. If there is going to be a

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deal, it's going to be for all the illegal immigrants. There are

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estimated to be 11 million or so and only up to 50,000 of whom are Irish.

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It's believed if the Irish were to get a separate deal it might be

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construed as racist by some people. Of course, Enda Kenny, Shane, made

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those comments at the Speaker's Lunch? Yes, he made the comments at

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the Speaker's Lunch and the Speaker's Lunch is a very relaxed

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affair. For example, the Speaker Paul Ryan made a speech in which he

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said that the previous president liked to play golf, the current

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president likes to own golf courses including one in Ireland! At the

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Speaker's Lunch, again, there was Gerry Adams and there was Ian

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Paisley. And after the Speaker's Lunch, I caught up with Gerry Adams

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and asked about his call for there to be no direct rule from the

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British if the negotiations don't progress quickly. There was some

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suggestion if we don't get agreement between the parties that form the

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executive that the British would bring back direct rule. I was merely

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pointing out in 2006 the British allowed that to lapse for good and

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made a commitment that they wouldn't legislate for the suspension of the

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institutions. So we're holding them to that. What was supposed to

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replace it was the Irish and British Governments co-operating in a

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partnership along with the parties in the north and I would presume if

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we get to the point where the British people they would reimpose

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direct rule that the Irish Government would be compelled to

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object. We don't envisage failure. Our resolve is to make this work,

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but we need the institutions back in place on the terms that they were

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established on. I don't know if you are aware of this, but the Taoiseach

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in his conversation with reporters after his meeting with Trump and

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they did speak about Northern Ireland, Mr Kenny told us that he

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had said that there can be no return to hard borders and also, there can

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be no return to direct rule. So are you reassured by that? Well, we need

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action. The difficulty in terms of Brexit is that if the British

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succeed in taking the north out of the European Union against the

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wishes of the people there, then the European Union will decide how hard

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the border is and I don't see there being anything other than a hard

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economic border because that will be the fronter of the European part and

:19:52.:19:56.

the non-European part. But are you reassured about his comments on

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direct rule? But we need to do is to uphold the agreement which was made

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in 2006. At the Northern Ireland breakfast this morning, there was no

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First Minister or Deputy First Minister present, but Sir Malcolm

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McKibbin gave a reasonably optimistic view of the way the talks

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are going on and he like yourself is heading back to Ireland for the

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resumption of those talks? I think it is true to say that the talks are

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being conducted in a cordial manner between the parties who might form

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an executive, but the issues that, I suppose, be devilled the

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relationship, issues around rights and legacy issues which the British

:20:38.:20:44.

Government is blocking and issues around rights for Irish speakers

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need to be put in place. There can be no return to the status quo. You

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will be at the reception in the White House. Many people in your

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party will be dismayed by your presence there. What would you say

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to them? Well, people in our party are entitled to their views on all

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these issues. The fact is the St Patrick's Festival in the USA is

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bigger than any president, and the time we are able to contact and

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brief and inform our friends here. We heard that President Trump does

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expect to visit Ireland sometime during his term of office? Yes,

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that's correct. He was asked in the Oval Office today by a reporter did

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he intend coming and he said yes, I love Ireland. I love Ireland. He

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repeated it so to emphasise the point and the Taoiseach did say that

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he had invited him. When Enda Kenny was asked in another interview did

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he think that President Trump would get a good reception? The Taoiseach

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said, yes, he thought he would, but I'm not too sure about that myself.

:21:57.:22:00.

I guess we'll find out in due course. Shane, thank you very much

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indeed. In Scotland Nicola Sturgeon

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announced her bid for another independence referendum

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while Sinn Fein and Fianna Fail have been setting out their plans

:22:18.:22:20.

for securing a United Ireland. That prompted unionists to seek

:22:21.:22:22.

assurances from the Prime Minister that a border poll doesn't feature

:22:23.:22:24.

in her master plan. But what do unionists have

:22:25.:22:27.

to fear from the idea? Enda McClafferty's been to Donegal

:22:28.:22:29.

and his report begins with the descendant of a well-known

:22:30.:22:31.

American folk hero. When it comes to living on the

:22:32.:22:47.

frontier, this man is an expert and he's well named. Meet Davey

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Crockett, not so much king of the wild fronter, but gatekeeper on the

:22:55.:23:03.

Irish frontier. There used to be a gate to cross

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here, but since 1922, 1923, the border came into being so then this

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is the republic. We have sheep in the republic here and they're tagged

:23:14.:23:16.

in the republic. We work with the department in the republic. We've

:23:17.:23:21.

sheep in the north down here. You could say he has a foot in both

:23:22.:23:26.

camps. So how would he feel if the border and his land disappeared and

:23:27.:23:30.

he was living under Dublin rule? I would rather the border disappeared

:23:31.:23:35.

and we were governed by London. I value the NHS in here. All right, it

:23:36.:23:39.

has its critics, but it is better than we have out in the republic.

:23:40.:23:44.

And therein lies the problem for Sinn Fein and others who are trying

:23:45.:23:49.

to sell a united Ireland to unionists. How do they convince

:23:50.:23:53.

people like Davey Crockett that life really would be better on the other

:23:54.:23:56.

side of the fence? What about the experience of the Protestants who

:23:57.:24:00.

already live in the republic? Do they see the benefits of a united

:24:01.:24:07.

Ireland. . Attacks like this, two orange halls in Donegal were torched

:24:08.:24:14.

by arsonists. Two years on, one has been repaired, the other still in

:24:15.:24:20.

ruins. It is very unsettling one to try and understand that why it had

:24:21.:24:25.

happened. We had actually had a group of ex-republican and loyalist

:24:26.:24:30.

prisoners here as part of peace and reconciliation projects so we

:24:31.:24:33.

thought we were being part of something of the greater good for

:24:34.:24:38.

the whole island and all of a sudden we were targeted for no apparent

:24:39.:24:43.

reason. The attack was widely condemned and the Orange Order got

:24:44.:24:46.

offers of help from the local Catholic community including the use

:24:47.:24:50.

of the nearby GAAhall. They received tens of thousands of pounds from the

:24:51.:24:55.

Irish Government. So how would he feel a border poll? I'm a unionist.

:24:56.:25:03.

I'm a relic of the empire. What has been left here after partition as a

:25:04.:25:08.

unionist community living as I deem myself a unionist living within the

:25:09.:25:11.

Republic of Ireland. Just a few miles away, the experience is very

:25:12.:25:15.

differentment here at the Ulster Scots heritage centre, they

:25:16.:25:19.

celebrate and educate both traditions. Any talk of the border

:25:20.:25:27.

on the northern side injects my co religionists with fear. In contrast

:25:28.:25:31.

you come over to east Donegal and the border is never mentioned. The

:25:32.:25:38.

people that I minister to here are happy. Even though they are

:25:39.:25:43.

Protestant. They're happy to identify as Irish citizens. And

:25:44.:25:47.

that's what Ian McCracken discovered when he carried out research into

:25:48.:25:51.

the thinking of Protestants along the border. Ian says he has never

:25:52.:25:56.

experienced discrimination, but he has faced questions about his

:25:57.:26:00.

identity. It's when you're asked are you Irish or are you British or what

:26:01.:26:08.

is your identity that people begin to think about it and if they feel

:26:09.:26:12.

there is a challenge, then it becomes an issue. So what do you

:26:13.:26:16.

consider yourself then? Are you Irish or British? I consider myself

:26:17.:26:24.

Irish. I've lived here, literally, all my life and I wouldn't have

:26:25.:26:28.

thought of living anywhere else. For Davey Crockett, it is not about

:26:29.:26:33.

politics. For him, it's simple economics.

:26:34.:26:36.

I would vote to stay in Britain. The people that are in Northern Ireland

:26:37.:26:41.

will vote for the nationalists until it comes to a vote for a border poll

:26:42.:26:47.

and then economically they'll look, what do we see what way we're better

:26:48.:26:52.

off? So we put that theory to the Des in Derry city centre. Would you

:26:53.:26:55.

vote for a united Ireland right now? No. Why not? Because I don't think

:26:56.:27:04.

they it is settled in the south. I'm happy with the way things are in the

:27:05.:27:07.

country at the minute. So I don't see any reason for a border poll. I

:27:08.:27:11.

would vote for a united Ireland. Why? The people would be far better

:27:12.:27:20.

off. With a united Ireland than the way it is now. I would scrap

:27:21.:27:24.

Stormont. Would you vote to join a united Ireland or stay in the UK?

:27:25.:27:28.

Stay in the UK possibly. Why is that? Well, I mean the Government in

:27:29.:27:33.

the Irish Republic at the minute isn't good either so I think we're

:27:34.:27:37.

better with what we have. A border poll is not on the horizon just yet,

:27:38.:27:43.

but it is unlikely to disappear in what will be a changing political

:27:44.:27:45.

landscape post Brexit. Plenty to mull over

:27:46.:27:48.

with our commentators and tonight we welcome the Irish News

:27:49.:28:00.

correspondent, Allison Morris, for her first appearance

:28:01.:28:02.

in the corner alongside the familiar Alex let's talk about the Mike

:28:03.:28:07.

Nesbitt interview. He kept his counsel for two weeks almost since

:28:08.:28:12.

he announced his resignation. Did he shed any light on his leadership and

:28:13.:28:16.

what has made him tick over the past five years, do you think, in that

:28:17.:28:21.

conversation? No, I don't think he did. I would have thought since this

:28:22.:28:28.

was his first major interview since standing down, he would give some

:28:29.:28:35.

reflective and this thing about the mixed messaging, when he talked

:28:36.:28:41.

about giving his second preference to the SDLP, it was off the top of

:28:42.:28:44.

his head and he hadn't discussed it with anyone. Within hours they were

:28:45.:28:48.

asking Ulster Unionist candidates who were saying no, we're not doing

:28:49.:28:51.

that, we're staying with the unionists. That became the mixed

:28:52.:28:59.

message. He isn't aware, when it didn't have any effect, there were

:29:00.:29:04.

people who were up until that minute were considering giving the Ulster

:29:05.:29:07.

Unionist Party a vote when they saw the reaction from his party and

:29:08.:29:10.

candidates... There is no evidence of that as he points out. That's

:29:11.:29:18.

anecdotal? It is anecdotal, a lot of people said to me, I get it through

:29:19.:29:22.

the columns and through e-mails and through my Twitter feed. A lot of

:29:23.:29:26.

people said to me within hours of your interview he has lost. One of

:29:27.:29:29.

the candidates phoned me half an hour later and said, "He has

:29:30.:29:40.

probably cost me my seat." Allison he was saying I did my best

:29:41.:29:44.

and there was a logic and he doesn't have any regrets? It was

:29:45.:29:49.

fascinatingly dull that interview and what he wouldn't say. He's

:29:50.:29:54.

continuing to blame Arlene Foster on the Ulster Unionist Party's defeat.

:29:55.:29:58.

I think that at this point in time, the mark of a proper leader is

:29:59.:30:02.

someone who will say, "I messed up and I take responsibility." But he

:30:03.:30:07.

was batting it off to Arlene Foster. I think it clearly cost him votes

:30:08.:30:14.

the SDLP remark, he said the guy he was transferring to had no chance of

:30:15.:30:20.

ever getting elected. Why would you transfer to him? You may as well

:30:21.:30:26.

throw your vote down a drain. I think that anyone who was a moderate

:30:27.:30:33.

unionist and was thinking about transferring, went to the Alliance

:30:34.:30:37.

Party. He is clearly not a fan of closer unionist unity and he was

:30:38.:30:41.

critical there of Arlene Foster's comments, some of them during the

:30:42.:30:44.

campaign, critical of the way in which the DUP does its business. He

:30:45.:30:49.

doesn't like it. He talked about its unionism being based on domination

:30:50.:30:53.

and he's not happy about that. So it's clear the direction of travel

:30:54.:30:56.

they thinks the party should go in his absence. Is there any indication

:30:57.:31:00.

that's what is going to happen? He didn't do that himself, Mark. He

:31:01.:31:04.

talked about not liking the DUP, but back, he said I'm going with the

:31:05.:31:09.

flow back then with the Ulster covenance, I went with the flow

:31:10.:31:13.

against my intuition and then he did the pact with the unionist forum

:31:14.:31:19.

whiches involved the TUV and other people and he did other electoral

:31:20.:31:24.

pacts. It goes back to the mixed message, you cannot say on the one

:31:25.:31:27.

hand I don't like the DUP, but hey, here is a new form, here is a new

:31:28.:31:31.

package, here is a new deal. The sort of people who might have been

:31:32.:31:35.

interested in Nesbitt gave up from him by the middle of 2013 because

:31:36.:31:39.

they realised this guy is not taking the party anywhere. He didn't want

:31:40.:31:43.

to answer the question of how historians might judge him. How do

:31:44.:31:46.

you think they will judge him? I don't think his career ended the way

:31:47.:31:50.

he would have liked it to have ended. I think he was diplomatic and

:31:51.:31:54.

holding back and he says he didn't want the job as Speaker, but you

:31:55.:31:58.

have to wonder is he holding his counsel because you have to be

:31:59.:32:02.

impartial to be Speaker and he has got his eye on that job. When I

:32:03.:32:11.

asked him that question? He said he never thought about it. It has been

:32:12.:32:16.

mentioned to me. He would be a good Speaker. Maybe Allison is right,

:32:17.:32:21.

he's holding fire and didn't want to be too controversial and didn't want

:32:22.:32:29.

to be attacking anyone. He could not have been clearer in the

:32:30.:32:34.

conversation that we recorded and afterwards, he said he knew nothing

:32:35.:32:38.

about the speculation of being Speaker. We'll find out on the 27th

:32:39.:32:43.

of this month. Let's a have word a about Gerry Adams in Washington.

:32:44.:32:47.

What did you make about what he had to say, the Irish Government is

:32:48.:32:51.

compelled to oppose any return to direct rule? I'm horrified that

:32:52.:32:56.

Gerry Adams is in Washington. The Trump leadership, there is nothing

:32:57.:33:00.

to be gained from Sinn Fein being there. Given the fact that Trump's

:33:01.:33:10.

first actions was to demonise women. I don't think he should be there. I

:33:11.:33:15.

don'tnd stand his position if he's saying there is not going to be an

:33:16.:33:18.

executive unless Arlene Foster is sidelined, but he doesn't want

:33:19.:33:21.

direct rule either. There is no provision for this mythical thing

:33:22.:33:24.

called joint authority. It doesn't exist in law. So I have no idea what

:33:25.:33:28.

he wants, but I suspect they are close tore a deal than any of us

:33:29.:33:33.

think. Gerry Adams point is that St Patrick's Day in Washington is

:33:34.:33:36.

bigger than a Trump administration? Well, St Patrick, it is the patron

:33:37.:33:42.

saint of Ireland, he could go to a St Patrick's Day event in Dublin.

:33:43.:33:51.

The links between Sinn Fein and their supporters are strong enough.

:33:52.:34:00.

That's it for The View. Join me for Sunday Politics at 11.35am on BBC

:34:01.:34:01.

One. But in a week when Martina Anderson

:34:02.:34:06.

captured the headlines with that Brexit speech in Strasbourg,

:34:07.:34:08.

we thought we'd leave you with some So Theresa your notion of a border

:34:09.:34:18.

hard or soft, stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Stick it. Stick it.

:34:19.:34:29.

Why does this Government treat Alberta like a fart in the room. I

:34:30.:34:36.

apologise now. And I stand by what I said. It was a falsehood that was a

:34:37.:34:42.

lie. I have to order the honourable member to withdraw immediately. I

:34:43.:34:51.

still refer to him as Dodgy Dave. Do what you like.

:34:52.:34:55.

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