11/05/2017 The View

The Assembly election was all about RHI and Arlene Foster

according to Sinn Fein - but what about this time?

On The View tonight, I'll be asking Michelle O'Neill

if a vote for her party is a poke in the eye for Brexit -

and a warm embrace for an Irish Language Act?

It's four weeks today until the election and we now know

109 candidates will fight it out for our 18

Westminster seats - even if some of those candidates

have no intention of taking their places on the House

Tonight I'll be asking Michelle O'Neill how she intends

to fight London's Brexit plans - and what a mandate for

The EU's chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, tells TDs

and Senators in Dublin that he wants to avoid a hard border -

but offers no guarantees on customs controls.

I'll be asking the Fine Gael MEP, Brian Hayes, if what he heard today

Mr Hayes joins me from county Wicklow.

And with me in the studio, the DUP MEP, Diane Dodds,

And ten years on from the historic Paisley-McGuinness devolution day,

do recent events demonstrate a failure of leadership?

There was an imperative for everybody to get this to work, to

ensure peace. I do not think that same imperative is there.

Newton Emerson and Deirdre Heenan...

Tonight - Michelle O'Neill says she has no problem with legislation

to protect Ulster-Scots or British culture, but insists

there will have to be an Irish Language Act.

Sinn Fein's Stormont leader also says MPs from Northern Ireland

who took their seats at Westminster in the past had no influence.

When she joined me in the studio earlier this evening,

I asked her what this election is about for Sinn Fein...

They are taking their lobbying directly to Brussels. The crucial

issue of Brexit will be dealt with the kingmakers, it will be the EU

member states, 27 member states, we cannot go over and wait for Theresa

May to bend down and listen to the issues we have expressed here. She

called the election because she wanted a bigger mandate to deal with

the Brexit issue as she was concerned people on the opposite

benches could derail the process from her point of view. She is

concerned about people sitting opposite on the green benches. If

you win seats you have the opportunity to be there influencing

the debate and knocking her back because that is what you want. But

you are not taking that opportunity. You are missing the point, all MPs

who are out there have not made a difference. The Tory mandate is

large and will be after the mandate. I believe the most effective way of

dealing with this is to be in Europe. When attempting to put

together an anti-Brexit pact failed here, Sinn Fein asked the LP to

stand aside and two consistencies, was attractive about the proposal

you made? I was the first leader to ask for an anti-Brexit pact, I

believe in this election. We need to maximise the number of anti-Brexit

MPs returning. The Alliance party, Green party and SDLP field to come

up and be part of the negotiations around that. In the last week I

asked the SDLP to stand aside in two constituencies, in South Tyrone and

North Belfast where I believe, voters will speak for themselves and

numbers speak for themselves. The only real possibility of returning

an anti-bracts that candidate and pro-Brexit candidates are the Sinn

Fein candidates. It does not matter if any of those pro-Brexit MPs

return to Westminster because you say the debate over there does not

matter, it does not really matter if Nigel Dodds returns to North Belfast

or Tom Elliott returns. Tyrone, that's the logic of what you told

me. I believe it is important we return, MPs getting to the bench as

Westminster. I gave you a number of examples of how ineffective our MPs

are, but... You think your MPs will be more affected by not turning up?

They can be effective in many ways, been part of an all Ireland team but

I was out in London along with an MP and we met with the Danish

Ambassador, the French and Spanish. We are influencing people who will

be decision-makers in relation to Brexit. That is why decisions will

be taken. Not Westminster. To follow your own logic in another way, you

said what you wanted to do in places like Fermanagh South and North

Belfast, when you make that offer, you wanted to keep out pro-Brexit

MPs, to that logic it means you should have stood aside a candidate

in south Belfast which is much more wearable as a seed for the SDLP then

North Belfast for Sinn Fein. If you look at the recent assembly

elections, it changed the political landscapes. I don't agree it is a

foregone conclusion, I believe Mairtin O'Muilleoiur is a unifying

candidate. And looking at how he topped the polls in March 2017, his

vote was up and that's why you think he will win the seat, the combined

vote of the two DUP candidates who stood was 1400 more than Sinn Fein.

Rogic is not on your side again? And again I do not agree with you --

logic. It is a good thing that politics are changing here. More

people are participating in democracy which is a good thing. I

believe the South Belfast seat is open for grabs, and I do believe the

people of south Belfast have a great candidate in Mairtin O'Muilleoiur...

You are happy to run the risk and come back after the election, if

Mairtin O'Muilleoiur takes votes from Alasdair McDonnell, an

anti-Brexit candidate. You are happy to stand with your decision to run a

candidate in Belfast if it means a pro-Brexit candidate is returned

instead? You split the nationalist anti-Brexit vote, you are happy with

that? Let's be clear. We are going to South Belfast to win that seat...

But you might not? We may not win a number of seats be cannot go into an

election on that basis. In South Belfast, with Mairtin O'Muilleoiur,

I believe he is a unifying candidate... Your logic is Mairtin

O'Muilleoiur is a good candidate and should run that risk in South

Belfast. And you should have a free run in two of the constituencies? It

is clear and the voters know it, that in Fermanagh South and North

Belfast, banded Brexit candidate. And we spoke in February, you are

clear, you told me, Sinn does that remain your position

today? You remember at the time I told you what we were dealing with.

An RHI scandal, the potential loss of millions of pounds at the heart

of government. Martin McGuinness asked Arlene Foster to stand aside

for an investigation and she did not do that. Is your position the same?

Martin asked her to stand aside. She refused. The only way to make sure

she would was for Martin to place his resignation and he did so. The

investigation is ongoing. Our position remains the same. We will

never get to the issue of Arlene Foster and her position to any

potential executive if we do not do with these issues. If we do not work

our way through and into and what is reasonable and implement what has

been previously agreed. What we are asking for is people to be given

their rights. It is as simple as that. We need that to form the

executive. We know that in quarry looks like it could take at least

one year. Some think it will take two. -- the enquiry. That could mean

no Stormont institutions. They could take a long time, we do not know how

long it would take that it is important to get to the bottom of

these issues... However long it takes Arlene Foster will not be in

the executive. Our position remains the same but we will not get to the

position of foreign executive if we don't deal with those outstanding

issues. Then we can look at the issue of Arlene Foster. As I speak

to you... We can forget the executive? We should not talk about

it as if it is a possibility let alone a probability. That is what

you are telling us? I believe that politics is about hope and people in

the last election ten weeks ago went and voted for their rights. They

voted for respect and integrity in government. It's the rise of Arlene

Foster to decide whether or not she should be First Minister of stuff

onto is up and running again? I will work with Arlene Foster everyday as

leader of the DUP -- Stormont. But I believe, I told you this last time I

was on the programme, there are ways for the DUP, if they want to power

shower and establish an executive, based on the principles of the Good

Friday Agreement and deliver for the citizens as intended, we need to do

that. You spoke about rights, which are

very important to you and you say to your voters. The Irish language

clearly is an issue that Sinn Fein and the DUP see different look. Two

weeks ago, you will have seen Arlene Foster visiting an Irish language

class and she met Irish language activists from Pobal and Conradh na

Gaelige as well. She says she is reaching out to that

community. What do you think? I welcome those visits, it should not

be newsworthy she is doing it but it is important, it shows that she is

reaching out. But unfortunately I think we have conflicting messages.

On one hand she is meeting groups and on the other hand, we have

Gregory Campbell and councillors in Belfast... She is the leader of the

DUP? Yes, but she is engaging and you want to understand, that's all

very positive and I welcome that... With respect to Gregory Campbell,

you said there would be no Irish Language Act be said there

-- he did not close the door down entirely. That strikes a chord with

what Arlene Foster has said? If you look at Gregory Campbell's track

record, the insoles that he continually throws at Irish language

and culture... He is one person in the DUP... Not saying the same thing

as Arlene Foster? It's important that you distance yourself from

unhelpful comments. If Arlene Foster is genuine and serious, we need more

than fluffy words. We need action. If Arlene Foster agree to an Irish

Language Act, would you agree to protect Ulster Scots and Orange

culture? That would respect the rights of a different part of the

community? I'm all about equality and affording people their rights.

That's what a good government should be about. I'm very open... You are

happy to tie this things together? It belongs to everybody, let's

respect everyone's right. We cannot have ministers taking bigoted and

sectarian decisions against one section and the next.

I am quite open and for doing something in relation to Ulster

Scots if there is the demand. I've said from day one. But appearing as

you did recently in Loughgall to commemorate what happened there 30

years ago when members of the IRA went to kill police officers and

they themselves were killed on that occasion, when you stand on a

platform and say you are proud of those people and what they set out

to do, that does not help people believe you when you say that you

are interested in the rights of everyone, can you see that?

Everybody has the right to remember the dead. I think it is important to

respect that. Do you have to remember the dead in such a public

wake and a provocative way, as the victims of IRA violence? Everybody

has a right to remember their dead. Nobody is dispute it is how you do

it... We respect each other's right to remember you're dead.

That is through proper reconciliation, people died in the

conflict. One mother 's grief and pain is no more or less than others.

It's not something new I have taken up, or something that Martin

McGuinness shied away from. It's part of who we are. What is your

message to those women sitting there who lost husbands, sons and brothers

over the last 40 years... I regret every loss of life, I regret that

mothers have lost their son and daughter, mother and father, it is

important we respect people have a right remember the dead. It does not

matter who you are. If we respect that difference, that is how we can

reconcile as a society... You are in a position of leadership and

influence where you to take on board how it is viewed across society. And

perhaps alter the way in which you commemorate those people, not stop

commemorating them but changing the way in which you do that? I think it

is important we respect that we all do things differently and remember

different. If I go to a commemoration it is respectful and

dignified. As a political leader, I will not be shy averaging out and I

will make sure I understand that everybody has had and pain. I'm

happy to do that but as I said, it's my job to make sure it never happens

again. Now, Brexit, a key part of the election. You were in Dublin

today and met the EU's chief negotiator Michel Barnier, did you

hear anything from him that gave you cause for optimism as to what lies

ahead for those in Northern Ireland? Yes, it was great to see him in

Dublin today, I could speak to him after. It was really important,

important that we impress on other EU leaders, they will be the

kingmakers in relation to Brexit and the terms of Brexit. It's important

we influence those people. He is a clear understanding of a bus needing

special recognition -- he has a clear understanding of us. If you

look to other examples, like Denmark and Greenland, you can appoint where

we have been flexible, and we've been able to see other examples...

You said that you do not want a boarder at all on the island of

Ireland, he said that there would have to be some sort of customs

control set up by the EU rather than the UK but they will be there.

Whether you like it or not there will be a boarder? I'm absolutely

opposed to any sort of border on the island, that is a retrograde step...

But I do believe that the reason that we are in this scenario is

because the British public are only interest in themselves. The Tory

governor do not care what happens here. -- government. I think the

factories and they called this election at a moment in time where

we were building up some steam in the talks process shows blatant

disregard. The influence we need to bring to bear is in Europe, Brussels

and where other EU member states are.

We know that after the election, we have been told by the Secretary of

State, renewed talks to try to get the devolved institutions again,

what are people going to the voting for? Then mandate to go back into

government that Stormont, or not? Always to go back into government.

This, it marks ten years since Martin McGuinness and Ian Paisley

had been power sharing again. It has to work as intended. I want to get

back to the executive. We are contending with conservative cuts,

people robbing the health service. It is important. I believe that

people want the executive to work, but we have got to deliver rights.

It has got to work on an equal basis. What is the seat target? You

had four. How many would you regard as a success on June nine? I am not

going to get you a number, but we are looking to maintain the four,

and we have targeted constituencies. I want to maximise the anti Brexit

candidates. You have got to come back with more than four. People

should come out in the selection, and make voices heard, against

conservative austerity, and the position, ignoring the will of the

people. And next week, I am going to be talking to the DUP leader Arlene

Foster. Now as Ms O'Neill mentioned,

the EU's chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, was in Dublin

where he addressed both houses While Monsieur Barnier

said he wanted to work to prevent a hard border here,

he acknowledged that customs controls are part

of EU border management. Tomorrow he'll visit

a food processing business Joining me now from Wicklow

is the Fine Gael MEP Brian Hayes and in the studio,

the DUP MEP Diane Dodds... Welcome. Republic economy,

particularly vulnerable to any new regulatory barriers with the native

kingdom that could arise as a result of Brexit. Have you gotten off from

Michel Barnier to calm nerves? I think it was positive speech,

reflecting the work of the Irish government across all of the EU

institutions, making sure that going into these negotiations the

guidelines are going to be clearer, in terms of highlighting the

problems for Ireland. North and south, the importance of the Good

Friday agreement, and the importance of the free movement of people and

goods across the border. He has been aware of that. The former budget

commissioner, responsible for peace funding in Northern Ireland, and he

knows Ireland, north and south, and once we get through this collection

we want to see if we can get the Stormont executive running again and

get some great possessions. The north in the south, east west.

Across the sea. Making sure that we have got an agreed approach. If that

came from the island of Ireland, north south, the European

institutions and Michel Barnier especially would be looking at that

differently. It is an important responsibility to get this working

again, after the British elections so that the parties can come to some

agreement, going forward. So much to lose, north south, but I was

delighted to see Arlene Foster said that she wants to have the softest

possible Brexit. She is from the border community and knows the

importance of the free movement of people. We can work together to make

sure that at the end of this process, Brexit does not cause the

difficulties some people have suggested. And we have heard

Michelle making the point, that she does not want any sort of Brexit,

border? Cuckoo land? We were walking across the border north south, south

north, since the Good Friday agreement and the peace process,

that region has flourished, in terms of the number of people employed and

the private sector economy. It is really important from all

perspectives that we do not have customs posts, revenue officials,

that we actually have this freestanding border. Soul that

people can move on both sides. That is important south of the border,

and north. I think we can achieve that but the crucial thing, the

absolute responsibility on the parties in Northern Ireland to work

with the government and colleagues in London to get solutions. The

Europeans are looking for solutions. Michel Barnier emphasised, going to

have to be some form of customs controls, between Northern Ireland

and Europe, after Brexit. It well have consequences. What do you make

of that? I thought the speech from Michel Barnier was very typical of

the man, he has spent his life promoting Federalist, European Union

integration. I am not surprised that he stole the virtues of the EU in

Dublin. But it was a very pragmatic speech. In Brussels, London, Dublin,

and from the DUP, nobody wants a hard border. We want cooperation,

treat, we want the effective use of where we are now. You have said you

do not want the hard border. He said there will be consequences. Do you

accept that? Yes. And he also said that he had desires to negotiate an

ambitious trade agreement. Remember, it is in the EU's interests,

Brian's, beef farmers, dairy, two actually have that free trade with

the Great Britain market. 60% of Irish beef goes to market in GB.

Northern Ireland, and the importance of the British market, I have been

at Balmoral this week, spending my last few days there. Many food

processors have said we have to concentrate on the market, grow

markets, and have a free trade agreement, axis. You think you can

have the best of both worlds. Many people have said we can manage the

challenges, maximise opportunities that Brexit brings. You do not want

to have your cake and eat it? You do not want to talk about potential

difficulties? I think that we are starting from a good position. I

have met Michel Barnier on many occasions. And in Brussels, the

special considerations, the need geography, the history, it is well

known. I think we can work together with those in Dublin. We will be

with London, to actually do that. And the one thing that I absolutely

agree with Brian about, the fundamental that is more sing in

love this, it is devolved government in Ireland that would actually

advocate for Northern Ireland. Today, at Balmoral, we're talking

about the potential agricultural bill. We need a northern Ireland

agricultural Minister, working. I cannot find many people who would

disagree with that. And Michelle said that she wants to get back into

government. You all want that, but not necessarily on how to achieve

this. Do you agree, there is a way to square the circle. The special

status for Northern Ireland, something that suits the European

Union, Northern Ireland, and people living and working in Northern

Ireland. It is the job of politicians north and south, east to

west, to solve problems. We represent ordinary people in all

constituencies, and the reality of Brexit was brought upon us, not by

the people of Northern Ireland but British people by and large have

been spot on the question. We have got to do with this. And actually

solve the problem. I think we can solve those problems in a more

comprehensive way, working together. North south, east west, coming up

with solutions. Should we be talking about that, examining that? People

have said that is the way forward? Other people, dismissive, but

frankly the ball do not even agree what it is? Words on a page mean

different things to different people. I am more concerned with the

problems, regarding the border, hard Brexit. In terms of the divorce

settlement, over the course of the next 18 months, we have a short time

to do this, in terms of the European Union budget, and the liabilities

themselves. It has got to be resolved. And what we need is an

absolute priority, the longest possible transitional phase, so that

we can say to people, virtually no change, that would help businesses,

agriculture, supply, to get the best possible deal that we can. We have

got to be pragmatic and realistic. I want to go back to you for one final

thought. One of your colleagues is on record that he supports the

special status for the island of Ireland. Agree or a lone voice?

Nobody in Brussels, London, actually talking about the idea of special

status, whatever that means. What we are talking about, some special

considerations for the unique problems, challenges, and

circumstances that Northern Ireland finds itself having. Northern

Ireland will leave the European Union, with the rest of the United

Kingdom and we need to go forward, getting the best deal that we can.

Interesting. Thank you. This week saw the tenth

anniversary of the restoration The return of the Assembly in 2007

was seen by many as a high point in the Northern Ireland political

process. But now we're in a halfway

house between devolution Wonderful memories. The stable,

shared community. Everybody was working together for the benefit of

everyone in Northern Ireland. I was so happy I could play a part. We had

hard work there, alongside the St Andrews talks. The images, powerful.

But it was a feeling, that day, that the future was bright. All that.

About time! Because all of those trips to great houses in in England,

trying to agreement, the elections, people thoroughly fed up with

politics by that stage. I think it was a tremendous amount of hope.

People had become despondent. But to say these things resolved, and it

was clear to staff the DUP and Sinn Fein had come to some agreement, the

process was about getting the correct financial package.

The difference between now and then, then a process was in place. But for

a period of months it was obvious that we had a process, this time it

is not so clear. I think that if we had even, the people I knew,

including Dr Paisley and Martin McGuinness, I knew them both well...

If we had people of that experience, stature, and with that tolerance, we

could have got further. These two, warriors. Seen it all. And they

wanted to stop seeing that. An imperative for everybody, to get

this to work, to ensure peace. I do not think that seem imperative is

there. The parties do not have the same means as the people who started

this. Dennis Murray ending that

look at how things have Right back up to date now

with Professor Deirdre Heenan Just going back to that, that

interview with Michelle, one thing that struck me that was potentially

interesting, she said that she would back legislative protection for

Ulster Scots but you had to have a language act? thought it was

interesting she had no problem with that. No issues around legislative

detection. Although later on, she was quite dismissive of Arlene

Foster's attempts at reconciliation, I thought she was paradoxical in the

sense that she said on one hand it was important to vote for Sinn Fein

to ensure product that candidates did not get their seats. And on the

other hand saying it does not matter as they have no power anyway.

Reaching out to consolidate comments and then withdrawing it. It was all

over the place. There has clearly been movement on the language, no

pun intended, by the DUP and Sinn Fein, the Irish Language Act,

cultural, does it stand alone? Can you combine the two? Of course, Sinn

Fein said it was not a red line, they refused to say the Irish

Language Act as a red line. There is plenty of scope for movement. That

does not mean it will happen. If you are optimistic you would say that

that may mean that devolution is more attainable than perhaps we

previously thought. Then, there is the red line about Arlene Foster.

That has not changed more than three months ago? I agree, there appears

to be more wiggle room. But when you listen to the whole thing it was

pessimistic. They were not moving around their insistence that Arlene

Foster would not lead the party and government. With the election, we

took the eye off the ball and it was a serviceable performance by

Michelle O'Neill, juggling this and keeping it going. After all of these

talks, we are in this vacuum with no original government because of

respect and pride issues that really should not be blocking important

decisions. I do not think it is sustainable to keep the deadlock

going for much longer without it causing really serious problems. I

do not think we can stay in no man's land. We are either indirect rule

all we are not. We are in the process of getting more direct rule

and at the same time, we need to get more executive back. The interview

said we are not as this could take up to two years but there is no

movement saying we will push forward with devolution. Let's talk about

Michel Barnier. A mention of customs and realism perhaps with all

concerned from the EU's chief negotiators. Is that how you see it?

Let's not get hung up on that term special status. Europe uses the term

to cover what it has to make. But whatever happens here, they will be

called special status... People here do not agree on what special status

means. You saw that with Diane Dodds? They disagree on whether they

can use that term special status. It's a stupid argument, we have to

use it. It is the content which is the issue. It was interesting that

Diane referred to special status and said that there would not be special

status. What is the difference? Only semantics. There needs to be a

creative solution. A stand-alone act or a culture act. I thought what was

interesting was that he was saying that they do not have a solution.

They do not have one. Asking people to be creative and flexible, I do

not agree with Brian Hayes all, they have not been adapted in the past at

all. It's up to society in the broader sense to say that they are

removing Brexit, how can we make it work? And Charlie Flanagan, the

Republic's Foreign Minister saying to the BBC on HardTalk an open

border is a must in all circumstances? Customs can mean many

different things, the idea that the peace process would disrupt that is

observed. Thank you to both of you. -- absurd.

That's it from The View for this week.

Join me for Sunday Politics at 11.35 here on BBC1.

One of the stories of the week was the photograph of the former

Ulster Unionist leader, Mike Nesbitt, lying prone

on the floor of a hotel lobby - and that reminded us of a few other

incidents where political big shots hit the deck.

# We tumble and fall # Together we crawl

# For ever will be... # Tumble and fall #

It's the biggest event of the year for road racing fans.

Engage gear, watch the lights, ready for the start.