21/02/2013 The View

On The View tonight, protests, parades and policing. The three Ps

have dominated headlines for months, but has the political deadlock on

demonstrations left the PSNI exposed when it comes to managing

the marching? The Chief Constable, Matt Baggott, joins me live in the

studio. Plus, rubber ducks, teddy bears and Snowy the dog, are

politicians using social media as a way to reinvent themselves? The

provesors share their wiz doom with us on the week's events. You can

follow the programme on Twitter at BBCtheview Are we heading for a

perfect storm? Some people say we might be, thanks to the turbulent

mix of protects, parades and challenges to policing. With the

marching season approaching, our correspondent has been looking at

the issues facing the police and the politicians and with a what the

Orange Order might do next. Officers did their best to take

cover until shelter was found. A new Parades' Commission to take

unpopular decisions out of the hands of police. The Commission was

never popular with the Orange Order. The Parades' Commission is brought

in as part of the Republicanan shopping list. They demanded it

following Drumcree as one of the prices. That was delivered. There

is a new challenge. The weekly protest march into Belfast city

centre over the flags issue. further warnings will be given.

Parades' Commission hasn't bothered to rule on these marches. Why?

Because it's not legal -- it sought legal advice and was told it didn't

have a power to rule on marches where no-one had bothered to notify

the police first. I think the police are left, as ever, holding

the parcel in all of. This the police are left, at the end of the

day, to deal with what happens on the streets. However, violent it

becomes. The police are saying they can't stop a parade if it is not

notified. Although it's illegal to take part in such a march, police

have been reluctant to act. Concerned with public safety and

other human rights legislation. More than 100 people have been

charged with taking part in flags protests, only two have been

charged with taking part in an illegal parade. Police are simply

appeasing the protesters and the rioters, in many cases, by saying,

you can do what you like. You can stop the business in Belfast every

Saturday,. You can march across the bridge. Now, you can't have that in

a civilised society. The Chief Constable told MPs that the

Parades' Commission was being undermined of late. It's understood

this raised haggles inside the Commission. Others think he is out

of his depth. I fear this is the wrong Chief Constable, at the wrong

time. I don't think that he's got the skill set to deal with the

divisions in Northern Ireland. I don't think he has the skills selt

to cope with the operational demands that there are -- set. He

has been too slow in calling for additional resources. I think that

he is far too idealistic for the rough-and-tumble of Northern

Ireland society. Critics say the Secretary of State should have

acted by now. Where I think the police are wrong is when they say

there is no such thing as an illegal march, yes, there is if the

Secretary of State bans the march. She has been in hiding for three

months. I couldn't say on camera what I think of the Secretary of

State's attitude. The Secretary of State gives me the impression she

has no idea what is going on here or what is likely to happen here.

She looks like a doe trapped in headlights. There are concerns

banning a protest march will lead to more trouble. Fears the police

don't have the resources to back up such a decision. A resident of the

Short Strand is taking a legal challenge both the Secretary of

State and the police claiming they are allowing illegal marches to

take place. A decision isn't due until April, however. The two

things the Secretary of State needs to do urgently is reform the

Parades' Commission to make it more open and transparent and make it

proactive and relevant and to override the opposition from the

local politicianes who have failed to come up with an alternative

themselves the second thing she must do is to take urgent steps to

increase recruitment to the police. The Orange Order, which wants the

Parades' Commission scrapped, has it is own message for the Secretary

of State. She will have to get off her hands and do something about

the Parades' Commission and where we are going with that and take a

lead and rather than sitting back waiting for something to happen.

Whatever she decides the Orange Order may be about to exploit

political deadlock. We will do what we need to do to get our parades

and culture celebrated in a way which threatens no one. We have

learnt that the Orange Order is considering changing tactics and

may stop notifying the police about their own marches. We will seek

legal advice, that could be a possibility, yes. Why? Simply

because you fill in the form you could get charged with an offence.

You don't fill in the form and you are not committing the offence

other than if you broke another law. What is the point of filling in a

form and ending up with a criminal conviction? It would be an offence

to knowingly take part in an unnotified parade. Might the police

find it easier to identify those oranging an Orange march making

prosecution of the Orange more likely than a flag protestersor?

That is a point the barristers will make money on over the summer.

wonder that the Assistant Chief Constable is warning of trouble

ahead. A view echoed by others. fear this summer is the most

dangerous we face. The most uncertain since August 1969.

mood music isn't good for this year. We shouldn't work for a peaceful

summer. We asked the Secretary of State to take part in tonight's

programme, but she wasn't available. A spokesman for the Northern

Ireland Office insisted, however, that the circumstances don't exist

for the Secretary of State to exercise her powers under parades

legislation. No-one from the Parades' Commission was available

to join us either. I'm pleased to say the Chief Constable, Matt

Baggott, is with me in the studio. Thank you for joining us. Pleasure.

We have seen a situation in Northern Ireland for 11 weeks now

where major roads have been repeatedly blocked by protesters.

Why aren't roads being cleared so that ordinary citizens can go about

their lawful business? We take an approach that is entirely

consistent with our responsibilities, which is first

and foremost the protection of life and public safety. On some nights

in the last two months there has been over 80 protests, thousands of

people on the streets. It isn't a problem you can simply arrest away.

What we doo-doo, we have been warning about the consequences of

people's actions. I have a team of over 70 detectives working at the

evidence. 190 people have been arrested to date. We have

identified another 200 who we will be dealing with in the next few

weeks. I have a team of Met detectives working through the

evidence and CCTV looking at the footage of serious violence. There

will be more arrests following. problem, is because there is a

process to be gone through, it looks to an awful lot of people,

obviously, as if the law can be broken with impunity? We are being

utterly consistent in our approach this year, as we were last summer,

as we were the summer before. Our responsibilities to the Policing

Board, and under devolution is Article 2 of the Human Rights Act,

that is the protection of life. Our approach in the last two months has

led to not a single serious injury. That is an achievement by itself.

If we we tried it arrest people off the streets in a crude way, not

only would we not comply with that duty there could be a more serious

problem we could be facing. What about the cost to ordinary

individuals who want to go about their lives without disruption? The

estimated cost to business by mid January was �15 billion according

to the CBI. 127 officers injured, a policing bill in early February of

�15 million. They are big consequences for the economy. Big

consequences for people's lives. They look to you for leadership.

They want you to deal with the problem. They think you are pussy

footing around? That is not true. Many people I deal, with including

a visit to Derry last night with hundreds of people there they fully

understand and endorse the police approach. We are dealing with it in

a thorough and measured way. Ourjob -- job is to protect life and make

difficult decisions, but do it in a measured way. Not a single person

has been seriously injured. There has been consequences to this which

are economic. Not consequences of the police making. There will be

more arrests, there will be more charges. There will be hundreds of

people brought before the courts. That is utterly consistent with our

approach we have taken in the last few years. You say you are in a

position you don't want to be in, do you feel let down by the

Parades' Commission, is that what you are suggesting? It's not a

question of blaming the Parades' Commission for this. We have

legislation that was made in 1998 at the time of direct rule. I'm not

sure that the pannalities are a sufficient deterrent for a summary

only offence of participating, organising an unnotified parade.

There are some strong evidential thresh holds we have to reach in

terms of creating the case for the Public Prosecution Service to take

to courts. There is debate around Article 11 for freedom of

expression. It is time for that legislation to be reviewed and

brought uch up-to-date. The consequences we are facing at the

moment are because many people have gone to the streets to protest. A

lot of that has been peaceful protest. Let me be clear about that.

We have seen, unfortunately, outbreaks of serious disorder which

have required significant police resources to deal with them.

have a situation where the Orange Order, we have just heard Reverend

Gibson saying that that organisation is looking at how

these parades have been policed and -- has formed the view it might be

worth considering the possibility, this coming marching season, of not

actually applying to hold the parades in the first place. Just

going ahead and doing them. Actually, nothing is going to

happen? Let me make two points. In a responsible democracy, civic

leaders, church leaders, political leaders respect the rule of law.

The Parades' Commission was set up for the issues of public safety. If

you don't have a regulatory body, if you don't agree with the way it

works you have a distinct possibility of people losing their

lives. It is a time for calm reflection on some of these

comments. Second point I would make, there is no inevitability about

this order in the summer. None at all. People make choices as to

whether they will be responsible and deal with marches in a way that

doesn't create conflict at interface areas. That is a choice

people make. There is no inevitability about this at all.

There is no inevitability there will be unrest or violence. It

seems the Orange Order might want to go-ahead with parades that don't

have certain limits put upon them by the Parades' Commission. What is

your message tonight? With calm reflection the Orange Order will

think about the consequences. 190 people have been arrested to date.

200 more have been identified. We will be knocking on doors for

people involved in unnotified complaints and obstructions and

serious rioting. Your message is this, is it, if I'm paraphraseing

you correctly, if they go down that road you would treat those parades

in exactly sameth same way you have treated pat raids over the last 11

weeks you would seek to gather evidence and bring those

individuals taking part in unnotified parades before the law?

We will put protection of life first. If we can enforce the law at

the time, we certainly will. People who take part in illegal action

will have to face the consequences. This is a time for quiet reflection.

I look to our civic leaders, our political leaders, particularly our

church leaders to make the statements required for the law to

That the statement says, the law is clear, it is an offence to organise

or participate in a parade that had been notified to the police. Wary

parade is not so notified, it is a matter for the police to deal with

a under various options, that could include stopping the parade of

gathering evidence for prosecution. Do you agree? We have a number of

options, but if you have hundreds of thousands of people on the

streets, you have to deal with things under a sensible and

pragmatic way, that is our responsibility. What about Saturday

coming when those responsible for organising the weekly parade from

East Belfast to the City Hall want to take appropriate to your police

headquarters? A lot of people are concerned, there is the dual

carriageway, issues of public safety and disruption where people

might not be able to move from self de East Belfast on a Saturday

afternoon. If it is a peaceful protest, we will facilitate that,

give clear for at -- give clear adviser bow ball Law, and make sure

people's lives are protected. If they break the law, we will deal

with it. Why not send out a message today that people should not take

part in on a notified parade on Saturday afternoon and if so, they

will face the full rigours of the law? One Cizek was a protest and

that can be peaceful, part of living in a democracy is that --

what you said. If there is a protest, it worked to make sure

people are safe and we will enforce the law at the time and later, as I

have said. I spoke about this in December and January and said at

the we put the protection of life first, there would be consequences.

Hundreds of people are already appearing before the courts and

there will be more, and there will be consequences, if that is utterly

consistent with our duties and responsibilities. I am held

accountable for complies with the Human Rights Act, for the

protection of life and property, and for the enforcement of the law,

the approach has been thorough, for full, measured and responsible. And

I hope we will have some more cynical commentators start to add

knowledge about what the PSNI has done has been a magnificent job in

difficult and complicated circumstances -- acknowledged.

looked so you have facilitated the demonstrators more than anything

else. 11 weeks on, not much has changed, the protest continued, and

another is planned on Saturday at your front door! A lot of heat has

come out of the protests. In December and January, the intensity

of the rioting which we contained with a very severely, we have given

the opportunity for sensible voices to be heard and they hope for

Saturday will see a break from the illegal parades -- and I hope this

Saturday. But there will be consequences for people who have

chosen to break all law. I cannot let you go without asking you about

the James Fenton case at that dominated the agenda today. The

Police Ombudsman delivered a stinging criticism of the police's

handling of the case. He went missing in July 2010 but it was 10

weeks before his body was found less than 40 metres awake in the

grounds of the Ulster Hospital, has embarrassed when you buy that

criticism today? We have been clear in apologising to his family and I

will not defend the action of the police which were not professional

and good enough. I am sorry the family has been through that trauma.

We deal with over 7,000 missing persons every deer and the vast

majority we deal successfully and I am sad we were not able to find his

body, and we will have this conversation with the family and

apologised to them. A lot of people are surprised and frustrated we do

not know what disciplinary action was taken against the 12th officers

her against him sanctions were taken, why not? They're wrong legal

reasons and I am not at liberty to discuss that have -- that our legal

reasons. Half officers have an opportunity to appeal to me. You do

not need to name them, you just need to say the level of sanctions

take and, that would be more transparent. You can be assured the

action would be proportionate to the issues that have been raised by

the ombudsman. Her the ombudsman is reviewing the policy of not

revealing details of disciplinary sanctions in post offices in future.

I am happy to work on that, and if that is an issue of public

confidence, we will have conversations and see if we can

resolve that. Thank you for joining us. They say

it is addictive once you start. Twitter, I am talking about. So we

decided to take a look at what our politicians have been sharing in

the Twitter world. Who knew about Gerry Adams' love of the rubber

With me now is a man who tweets more than most and keeps an eye on

a local political scene. Welcome, then Keith Wood joining us. We have

all collectively been rather fascinated with Gerry Adams and his

recent entry on to the Twitter stage. He has revealed a lot about

himself, perhaps in respect people did not expect. Were you surprised

by some of what he has talked about in such a public way? Certainly, I

expect to see a little bit about a politician's private life on

Twitter, but she did not expect to find out about his bathtime habits

and the rubber duck, about his teddy bear, Snowy the dog, it is a

whimsical set of scenarios he is putting out, along with the odd

tweet about meetings he is going to and party events. It is quite a

fascinating insight into a senior politician and a figure who has got

a lot of notoriety. Is that because he is in a very calculated fashion

at trying to show the human side to his political persona, forests that

the real Gerry Adams and that is the way he is? He is not a man I

have met and had a conversation with. His other online persona on

his blog is in little whimsical and it is based around characters and

stories rather than policy, so this is quite consistent with that. But

he does appear to be a man who is intentional about what he does and

I would be surprised he was -- a surprise if he was not thinking

through this. I wonder about his legacy, is he putting his legacy on

Twitter and changing how people perceive him as he heads towards

the twilight of his political career? In a short period of time,

his huge number of people are interested in what he has to save.

He has got 14,000 followers after a couple of weeks, three times the

number I have! I wish I had that many followers! Peter Robinson has

got 9,000 followers, so you can see that he has caught a lot of

people's attention at. It will be interesting to see how that trend

goes, there is a lot of talk about it in the Irish newspapers and we

are talking about it here, a serious subject and now whimsical

subjects, so a lot of people are interested. He has taken a lot of

criticism, took a lot of people have been poking fun. If I wrote

about a teddy bears and rubber ducks, I would expect to take

criticism. You would expect he is looking for gravitas, he is a

President of the party, we are not discovering about policy, but about

his private life. That is not the kind of thing people expect.

much of his party colleagues are ferocious on Twitter and they are

very active at Stormont, who else do you follow and pink is in sight

for? All who else has a quirky take on political happenings? -- and

think. There is little insight, 140 characters can night that win votes

or convince people about policy. But Niall O Donnghaile, from Sinn

Fein, has been on Twitter for a long time and he would go out of

his way to talk to people and answer back if people raised

questions, he will into -- he will interrupt conversations. A council

was in an event on Monday-night talking about flags, two after were

talking to people who were listening back at home, that is a

good way of using it. But I still feel Twitter is somewhere we will

not get a big change. But you may learn more about the kind of

personality that turns them on. is fascinating, and it is

absolutely addictive! It is! Nice to see you. We can hear the

combined wisdom of our commentators now. Brick, just to pick up on a

previous conversation with Alan on politicians and what they tweet --

Whitrick. You have been taking a look at the account of Gerry Adams,

were you surprised? What struck me when I first started looking at it,

you wonder if he is trying to be the political equivalent of O'Brien

in his brilliant novels. Maybe he is trying to carve out that Neish,

they are slightly strange. Some people have thought this was

flippant and he should be focusing on more serious matters. With all

respect, I do not think you should take this too seriously because

people will come to this either like he always giving him, this is

not a wake to suffer and -- to soften public opinion on Gerry

Adams. And there have been other pessimistic opinions on what Gerry

Adams has been doing. A lot of people have said negative things.

You are relatively new to Twitter, but you are enthusiastic, who have

not got as many followers as Gerry Adams in two weeks. I will not ask

you to name the number, if but you are enthusiastic, have you been

glued to his postings? -- but you are. I would say they are

unsettling and bizarre. Do you want to leave yourself open to ridicule?

He talks about his teddy bear and his rubber duck, he comes across as

a Mr Bean a figure. He talks about his toothbrush and you think, what

is going on? What Persaud not are you trying to paint? -- persona up

are you trying. I did come across a one-legged dog, so there is

something seriously wrong in the countryside! For years, and I

thought his voice was voiced over by an actor, perhaps he needs an

actor for his tweets, they are bizarre! Your moment of the week?

The publication of the end child poverty report which was published

yesterday, and that revealed one in five children in the UK is living

in poverty. West Belfast, 43% of children are living in poverty. And

the Institute for Fiscal Studies is predicting this figure could grow

by 400,000 by 2015, and up to 800,000 by 2020, and we have the

welfare Cup -- welfare cuts coming. It is like a late Victorian period.

There was a story about a child in West Belfast suffering from rickets

in 2013! What an indictment on society. To some extent, that ties

in with your Mum that of the week. Very similar, the Northern Ireland

Audit Office report on improving literacy was a damning indictment,

40% of school league this -- of school leavers are at GCSE standard

have not reached basic literacy and numeracy standards. These children

will not be able to reach their potential and it will not have

opportunities and be able to participate in society, and what

are we doing? The Education Minister says it is an indictment

of his policies, I find that very, very worrying. Moved on to your

tweet of the week. That is the right royal rumpus, the piste and

the London Review based on a lecture two weeks ago, from the

Chief political editor of the Que has been an enormous discussion

and conversation, some people regarding Hillary man tell as a

Republican out to diminish Kate Middleton's persona. But she was

pointing out the hook -- pointing out the hypocrisy of the past and

painting a parallel with the way the media treated Diana and St,

back off! The same powers criticising her Penpont - then

turned on Hillary about her weight, etc. And there have been reports

over the progress of her pregnancy. And when you take six lines out of

an article of 1,000 words, it is understandable. Your tweet of the

week, Deidre. Is it is from John Prescott, who has developed an

entertaining presence on Twitter, and he refers to the Comic Relief

single with a guest appearance from He is being called by Harry! One

Direction needs no direction, there is so much in that Comic Relief

single not like to get up so -- to get upset about, not the least,

they may drink of teenage kicks! The best will all weight -- the

first will always be the best. A quick word on the east a by-

election. The bookies are St the Liberal Democrats will hold it,

good news for Nick Clegg. -- the bookies are saying it. Because

servitor of candidate has become the Serra pay winner of politics,