Browse content similar to 19/02/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight a special programme as The Wales Report is given exclusive | :00:00. | :00:11. | |
access to Operation Pallial. The investigation into allegations of | :00:12. | :00:15. | |
historic child abuse in North Wales care homes. The man in charge tells | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
us it is far from over. I am confident there will be further | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
charges and further arrest, we will pursue the truth and ensure through | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
the evidence we collect, with put the CPS in the best position to make | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
proper judgment. Stay with us for The Wales Report. | :00:35. | :00:45. | |
Good evening and welcome to a special programme. The Wales Report | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
has been given exclusive behind the scenes access to a major | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
investigation into allegations of historic child abuse, in care homes | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
in North Wales. Operation Pallial is led by the | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
National Crime Agency, and based over the border at its northern | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
headquarters in Warrington. It was set up in November 2012, amid | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
concerns that previous investigations had not been robust | :01:12. | :01:14. | |
or thorough enough. There were concerns too that the voices of | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
those coming forward to report allegations of abuse in the care | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
system had not been heard. The investigation had already | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
resulted in 19 people being arrested, with more expected. 37 | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
potential suspects have so far been identified. It is thought at least | :01:33. | :01:39. | |
12 suspects have died. David Williams who has covered the event | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
as they have unfolded over the past 25 years has been behind the scenes | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
with the police to discover the true extent of the allegations. | :01:48. | :01:59. | |
We will start with an investigation update. I am content we are making | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
steady progress in Operation Pallial, we are dealing with 255 | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
victims. In terms of suspect inquiry, again, making steady | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
progress, 37 people have been raised to suspect status and from that | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
figure we have made 19 arrests. Ian Mulcahey the man in charge of | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
Operation Pallial, an investigation into historic child abuse in North | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
Wales lists the latest shocking statistics to emerge from an inquiry | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
into what is nothing less than a human tragedy. | :02:36. | :02:38. | |
Offences were committed between the time span of 1953 to 1995. The age | :02:39. | :02:46. | |
range was between 6 and 19. The majority of the victims were boysers | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
although there are a number of girls. | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
-- boys. 37 potential suspects have been | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
identified. Of the 255 people who have come | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
forward, since the investigation was launched, 14 months ago, a great | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
many are new complainant, outlining a catalogue of serious crime and | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
abuse, allegedly committed decades ago, in Local Authority and | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
privately run children's homes in North Wales. | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
28 care homes have been named by complainants. | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
In terms of named... The rolical is staggering. 28 homes are named. -- | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
roll call These were places where young vulnerable children were | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
supposed to have been cared for. Instead they are now at the centre | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
of an inquiry into sexual and physical abuse, and inquiry which | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
has taken on a life of its own. And for the time being at least, one | :03:47. | :03:54. | |
in which there is no end in sight. We are dealing with alleged | :03:55. | :04:01. | |
offenders who are responsingable... 19 people have been arrested, one | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
man has been charged, and more arrests and charges against others | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
are expected. I am confident there will be further | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
charges and further arrests. We will pursue the truth, and we will ensure | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
through the evidence we collect, we put the CPS in the best position | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
possible, to make the proper judgments. | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
Over the years in reporting the growing number of complaints of | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
abuse in children's homes in North Wales, I have ended up outside this | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
building. The headquarters of the North Wales | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
Police in Colwyn Bay. It has to be said they weren't happy memories. | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
At the time, rightly or wrongly, there was a perception that the | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
police were hostile and disbelieving of claimants abuse claims. | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
All that, it is said, has changed and frankly it is an attitude that | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
had to. Attempts to try and establish the | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
whole truth have to date all failed. Time and again, over the last 30 | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
year, I have heard the same depressing stories from some of | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
those alleging abuse. Nay simply were not listened to, or believed. | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
-- they. At least 13 young people have killed | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
themselves. The damning findings of the first real attempt at an | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
inquiry, the Jillings Report, was suppressed. | :05:31. | :05:33. | |
What should have been the definitive public inquiry, the Waterhouse | :05:34. | :05:41. | |
Tribunal, is itself now subject to another inquiry, the review. In the | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
'80s there were police inquiries, and eight people were eventually | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
convicted of child abuse. But young people continue to tell me that they | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
had no confidence in the north Wale police. | :05:58. | :05:59. | |
Fearful of coming forward when they were children, many waited until | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
they were adults before telling their stories. | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
But they still remember vividly what happened to them Keith Gregory says | :06:10. | :06:18. | |
that he was sexually, and physically abused in homes in England and in | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
Wales. He had a chilling account of his | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
first attempt as a teenager, at the then Bryn Estyn children's home in | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
Wrexham, to bring allegations of abuse to the attention of staff, and | :06:31. | :06:36. | |
police, during a case conference at the home. | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
Before I went into the meeting, I marched into the meeting, sort of | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
thing, there was the police officer standing there, with his arm round | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
one of the people I was accusing, smiling, laughing, joking. Then he | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
said to me I believe you have something to tell me. | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
I couldn't, you know. So did you find that the police weren't | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
prepared to listen do you, or were they hostile or what? Nobody would | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
listen. Nobody wanted to know. We were naughty boys, from when you | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
come out, when I was there, when I come out, for years it has been | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
hushed up. The current chief constable of north | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
Wale police has, from the outset, been at pains to demonstrate his | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
force's full cooperation with the current investigation. | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
-- North Wales. It was Mark Polin who wanted it conducted by an | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
outside force. Why? Because at the time, some | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
victims were indicating that they ad at that point didn't have the | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
confident in the force to carry out a reinvestigation to allegations | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
made some time ago. There was a perception that North Wales Police | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
during this period weren't listening, and sometimes worse, were | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
demonstrating hostility towards those who were coming forward, or | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
who wanted to come forward, what do you say to that? First of all, I | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
wasn't here. Let us be clear, there are few staff in this organisation | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
now, who were here at the time of the investigations, so the | :08:14. | :08:15. | |
organisation has moved on in terms of staff and what it does. It is not | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
therefore for me to comment on prior investigation, because I wasn't | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
party to them, this was about let us make sure we get it right this time, | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
if we have not got it right before, and encourage victims to forward to | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
put everything on the table, as far as we can possibly could, and to | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
ensure there was a thorough comprehensive investigation that was | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
independent and transparent. This is the nerve centre of | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
Operation Pallial, based here at the northern hub of the National Crime | :08:47. | :08:52. | |
Agency, in Warrington, in Cheshire. Geographically located in England, | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
it is at the same time at arms-length from but in close touch | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
with the north Wales police, whose force area is at the epicentre of | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
this inquiry into historic child abuse. | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
We have been given unparalleled access to see for ourselves some of | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
the inner workings of this operation. | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
For the first time since the inquiry was set up in November 2012, the | :09:18. | :09:26. | |
National Crime Agency or NCA, Britain's equivalent of America's | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
FB. It has allowed cameras in to get a snapshot of the complex and | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
delicate work that goes on behind the scene at one of the biggest | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
police inquiries of its kind. In that Pantheon of crimes that you | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
deal with, where does this one it is? It is difficult compare | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
different types of crime so with deal with organise crime, to drug, | :09:52. | :09:58. | |
gun, people trafficking and through child exploitation, it is a broad | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
range, what I would say is be try and work through the detail of that | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
to identify where the real opportunities are to cut crime and | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
keep the public safe, our priority is pursuing criminals. Is That is | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
what you are doing in this operation? Absolutely. | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
Day after day, week after week, month after month, the Pallial team | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
of 26 officers have been following up the stories and allegations from | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
men and women, but mainly men, who have contacted them to outline the | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
abuse they say they suffered while in care in North Wales. | :10:34. | :10:40. | |
Elaine Coult iris the deputy officer in -- Elaine Coulter is the deputy | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
officer in charge of the Pallial operation. We have had an overview | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
of what it is about but this is where it takes place isn't it. Talk | :10:50. | :10:52. | |
us through the kind of processes that go on here. This is the | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
incident room for Operation Pallial. People will contact us by a number | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
of source, whether by telephone, e-mail or other agency, we have an | :11:05. | :11:11. | |
0800 number. A lot of people have not previously reported their | :11:12. | :11:14. | |
allegations to the police. Some had and sometimes it has been | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
investigated so we have to research all that first, this is not the | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
first investigation into the care home abuse, so we have to research | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
the archive material, which is about 260 boxes, held in North Wales, so | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
there is a lot of research to do, so you might get someone who thinks I | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
have give my account to the police, why hasn't that person been arrests? | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
We have to make sure the research round, is that person still alive, | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
how can we trace them? Because some have died? Yes. | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
The majority of those who have come forward, in response to the latest | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
appeal for information are telling their stories, often deeply | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
disturbing story, of abuse, for the first time. Not even members of | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
their own family have heard what officers of Operation Pallial are | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
now being told. It takes a lot for a person to come | :12:11. | :12:16. | |
forward and divulge, the worst time of their life when they should have | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
been a place in care. Do they tell you why they have taken so long to | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
come forward? They do, although there have been previous | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
allegations, they have been asked in the '90s and they might have said | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
no, they might have been in that good place in their life. They | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
haven't wanted to talk about it. As they lives have gone on they have | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
wanted to talk about it. People are getting older and they need to tell | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
their story, I have had people come to me and I ask me how to get in | :12:48. | :12:54. | |
touch with Pallial. I spoke to the Children's Commissioner and they put | :12:55. | :12:57. | |
them forward. There is one old chap I talked to, he just wants to tell | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
his story before he die, he doesn't want anything, he is well-off, all | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
right. He needs to say what happened to | :13:09. | :13:15. | |
To you get any feel, any idea, of how many of those 250 have in any | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
way been wasting your time, or have they not? I don't think anybody has. | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
That is a lot of people. Disturbing though they are, the | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
allegations do not mean the accused are automatically guilty. Neither do | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
the numbers necessarily mean there is an increased chance of | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
conviction. The job of the officers is to collect the evidence. The | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
police and law enforcement let evidence, presented to persecute | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
us, the CPS, they make an objective judgement based on clear guidelines | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
about who should go into a court. The courts decide who is guilty or | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
not guilty. This is the cord and 18 team, | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
otherwise known as the Gold group, which meets regularly at the | :14:07. | :14:14. | |
Warrington offices to discuss the progress of the enquiry. Every | :14:15. | :14:22. | |
agency either directly or indirectly linked is represented. The NCA is | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
represented by their boss, director-general Keith Bristow. | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
There is also a representative of the North Wales police. Social | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
services in North Wales have a joint coordinator. The Crown Prosecution | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
Service, CPS, is represented by the chief prosecutor for Wales. Also is | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
the Children's Commissioner for Wales. | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
Because of the sensitive nature of what they are discussing we have | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
been asked to leave the room but I have had a glimpse of the kind of | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
joined up thinking that goes on. And the attempt to provide necessary | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
support for those who have been willing to come forward and provide | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
harrowing accounts of the abuse they suffered. You can't help but think | :15:09. | :15:17. | |
why wasn't all this done years ago? Perhaps there was a lack of | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
understanding of the impact, and the level of abuse that had occurred. We | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
are much better these days at recognising what we need to do to | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
ensure that we support people where they have suffered abuse, and the | :15:32. | :15:39. | |
impact on their lives, that has been one of the things that has been most | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
hard-hitting for us, is seeing the tragic impact on some peoples lives | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
of this, and some people will never recover and we will have two be | :15:50. | :15:52. | |
there to ensure they have that support for as long as they need it. | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
There is little doubt the level of support for those coming forward has | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
improved dramatically, compared with what wasn't done 20 or 30 years ago. | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
We have discovered a new problem, the counselling sessions offered by | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
Operation Pallial are running into difficulties because those coming | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
forward are being instructed, for legal reasons, not to verbally | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
identify their alleged abusers to their councillors. As a result, some | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
witnesses feel the counselling sessions are pointless, and have | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
decided to withdraw from those sessions. This threatens to leave | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
them, as witnesses to the enquiry, for trouble again. | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
It is good that you managed to chat to somebody who is not part of your | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
family, but we are not allowed to speak about what has happened and we | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
are not allowed to mentioned names of the people who abused us, for | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
legal reasons. Does that inhibit you? It does, it stops you. To go | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
forward you have got to go backwards, get your story out, write | :17:03. | :17:09. | |
three to present day. Every time you mention something they say sorry, we | :17:10. | :17:16. | |
cannot listen to that part. I think that is holding us back a lot. | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
Once again, survivors of abuse have difficulty in unburdening themselves | :17:23. | :17:28. | |
of their past. Hopefully this is a temporary blip, and one that can be | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
rectified. In terms of the investigation, the emphasis now is | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
on the credibility of the allegations, rather than the | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
perceived weakness of the witnesses. And in general terms the man in | :17:43. | :17:45. | |
charge of Britain's crime-fighters is optimistic we are witnessing a | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
change in society's attitude to child abuse. | :17:51. | :17:57. | |
We should recognise society generally in England, Wales, and | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
wider has changed and attitudes towards sexual violence and abuse of | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
conduct has changed and law enforcement, the police, the justice | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
system has changed along the same lines. We take this incredibly | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
seriously, we are sensitive to some of the pressures on victims and | :18:15. | :18:17. | |
complainants and take a more robust approach than a generation ago. | :18:18. | :18:25. | |
There has been a cultural shift, argue animating that they didn't do | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
everything they should have done all those years ago? -- are you | :18:31. | :18:37. | |
admitting. 250 victims coming forward in direct response to your | :18:38. | :18:40. | |
appeal. There are things that with the benefit of hindsight we would | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
all have sought to have done differently. That is about learning. | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
That is deeply regrettable, there are occasions when we cannot be | :18:51. | :18:57. | |
proud of the way in which some allegations have been dealt with | :18:58. | :19:00. | |
historically, but we have learned those lessons, things have | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
improved, the numbers of victims coming forward expressing confidence | :19:05. | :19:07. | |
in the process is a real testament to the journey we have been on. | :19:08. | :19:16. | |
At the outset of the enquiry so Ronald Waterhouse was clear, his | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
tribunal would not act as a court putting individuals on trial, but | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
was intended to establish the extent of the abuse and why it wasn't | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
detected earlier. Of course, historic abuse of | :19:33. | :19:35. | |
children in North Wales has been the subject of an investigation before. | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
At a cost of ?13 million of public money, the Waterhouse Enquiry spent | :19:41. | :19:48. | |
three years gathering evidence and coming up with various | :19:49. | :19:49. | |
recommendations aimed at preventing a recurrence of the abuses of the | :19:50. | :19:57. | |
past. Statement, Mr Secretary Murphy. For | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
those who lives have been chattered, the family of those who | :20:04. | :20:11. | |
have died, we all say sorry. -- been shattered. We are determined this | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
report will lead to a society where young people can be cared for in | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
safety. In some quarters there is a real | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
concern the remit was not wide enough and the enquiry did not go | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
deeply enough into the allegations of abuse. And the way that some of | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
the abused learnt of Waterhouse's interest in them was shocking. They | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
just turned up on my door and expected, which was really bad -- | :20:40. | :20:45. | |
unexpected. I haven't told my partner I was with at the time, and | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
the kids were in my house. You had no warning. No, they just came to | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
the door and said we believe you were abused in care. It was bad. But | :20:57. | :21:03. | |
you were able to tell your story to those people concerned? With the | :21:04. | :21:09. | |
Waterhouse Enquiry, all they wanted to know was which staff were abusing | :21:10. | :21:18. | |
you or whatever, we were being stopped on packs. -- pass. I wanted | :21:19. | :21:30. | |
to tell them we were not just being abused on site, people were being | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
taken off site. We were not allowed to mention that. Not to Waterhouse. | :21:35. | :21:44. | |
It was outside their re-met? Yes. We were told you cannot mention | :21:45. | :21:51. | |
anything that happened outside. Despite Keith Gregory's misgivings | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
it did find there was evidence of an paedophile ring operating in Wrexham | :21:56. | :22:03. | |
and Chester. One of the positive results to emerge was the creation | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
of the post of Children's Commissioner for Wales. The current | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
Commissioner sits on the Gold group and was one of those who called for | :22:12. | :22:17. | |
a new enquiry. In fact, he got to, Operation Pallial, and another | :22:18. | :22:24. | |
enquiry into the Waterhouse Enquiry. -- he got two. The second | :22:25. | :22:32. | |
enquiry was called to review and is headed by a High Court judge. | :22:33. | :22:39. | |
When I spoke out, I spoke out when I didn't know there would be Operation | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
Pallial, I didn't know there would be a review into the Waterhouse | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
Enquiry, I just felt very strongly something had to happen, not least | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
because the stories that were beginning to come forward for | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
victims who had held this for 30 years or more, were incredibly | :22:58. | :23:04. | |
powerful. I am really pleased with what has happened since, with the | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
way in which agencies have taken this job so seriously, and my job is | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
to make sure those people have the strength to come forward, get their | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
voices heard, and have everything they want to say listened to. | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
The general consensus is those coming forward are being listened | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
to, but those investigating the latest claims of historic abuse are | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
also conscious of the growing concern about the wisdom of pursuing | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
allegations of abuse which span several decades. | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
With the passage of time that presents particular challenges. | :23:44. | :23:46. | |
Human beings struggle with passage of time to remember exactly what | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
happened, forensic opportunities may have passed but we are pursuing | :23:52. | :23:59. | |
evidence. We follow the evidence, presented to prosecutors and | :24:00. | :24:01. | |
prosecutors make decisions about who should go into the criminal justice | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
system. It has to be remembered Operation | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
Pallial is focused on historic abuse, but the North Wales police | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
are still responsible for investigating any new or current | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
claims, and they know they have to get it right. | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
Never again does North Wales police want to be accused of failing in | :24:25. | :24:27. | |
their response to allegations of child abuse. At some point in the | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
future as Operation Pallial's work draws to an end in North Wales force | :24:34. | :24:40. | |
will once again have to take over all responsibility for investigating | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
any allegations of abuse, whether new or historical. Those who have | :24:45. | :24:53. | |
been child abuse perpetrators need to look over their shoulder for the | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
rest of their lives. We have invested a lot of time and effort in | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
training our staff are fashionably making sure we have the capability | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
to go where we haven't gone before and making sure we are providing the | :25:06. | :25:13. | |
best possible service to victims. For those who were abused the | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
passage of time has not made the crime any more or less serious. It | :25:18. | :25:23. | |
was, and will always be, the same. A time of the world at and betrayal at | :25:24. | :25:29. | |
the hands of adults who were charged with the most fundamental of | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
responsibilities, keeping children in their care safe. Children in our | :25:34. | :25:40. | |
looked after system are much safer than they were in the 70s and 80s, | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
there is no doubt in my mind that is true. We have made huge amount of | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
progress. I am still the Children's Commissioner for Wales who in 2014 | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
is saying to the Welsh government we need to make sure that children and | :25:55. | :25:57. | |
young people get their voices heard. I don't say that because it | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
is a nice thing to say, I say that because when children are not | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
listened to all believed, if there are bad things happening to them and | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
people don't respond, that is when you have real problems. | :26:11. | :26:18. | |
There is no definitive timescale on completing Operation Pallial. It | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
will take as long as it takes to complete an investigation which | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
should have been done a long time ago. It wasn't and the scale of the | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
current operation and the response to it is evidence of a failure, and | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
the consequences for hundreds of people is immeasurable. And whatever | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
happens now, those people will never be able to reclaim their childhood. | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
I don't want to be sitting here in ten years like we have been doing | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
for the last ten, 20 years. This time it has got to be right and I | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
hope everybody does their proper job which I think they are doing, to be | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
honest. There are more arrests, enquiries. I hope we get it sorted | :27:03. | :27:09. | |
and we can all move on with our lives. | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
Keith Gregory ending that special report by David Williams. The cost | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
of Operation Pallial has risen to three quarters of ?1 million, paid | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
for by the Home Office. It is expected to rise again as the | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
investigation continues and further arrests are made, with court cases | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
to follow. Please say for those wishing to contact them about | :27:33. | :27:35. | |
historic abuse the door remains very much open -- police. That is it for | :27:36. | :27:42. | |
this week. You Edwards will be back next week. You can get in touch with | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
us about the issues discussed tonight or anything else will stop | :27:47. | :27:54. | |
-- Hugh Edwards. Thank you for watching. Good night. | :27:55. | :27:59. |