02/03/2016 The Wales Report

Why are so many Welsh children living in poverty,

despite countless initiatives to tackle the problem?

We ask Welsh Conservative leader Andrew RT Davies

how his party would run Wales,

as we look ahead to May's Assembly elections.

And is it print, online, radio or TV?

Where do you get your daily news? And does it matter?

Good evening and welcome to The Wales Report.

We start tonight with the high levels of child poverty

in Wales, and they are stubbornly high

despite a range of policy interventions

You can join tonight's conversation on social media.

So 200,000 Welsh children live in poverty - that is about a third

a rate that has remained static for years.

The Welsh Government says it is aiming to eliminate

but at current rates that now looks extremely ambitious.

Felicity Evans looks at what is being done to tackle

50 years ago and a South Wales mining village, these children grew

up poor. All our lives we have been ill, I don't know what they have not

had! It is a poor starts at any children. These black and white

images remind us of how much the country has changed but poverty

continues to blight the lives and ambitions of children across Wales.

This woman struggles today is her two young children on a low income.

This there have been plenty of times I have had to say to my children you

cannot have this or I have gone on to a supermarket with ?20 and have

had to buy meals with that, and literally said, we have to have

passed the three times this week because that is all I can afford. I

don't think children should be growing up with the worries of the

chill that the appearance' financial situation on their shoulders, but in

that situation with the menu in your pocket and your children asking

something, you have no option but to say you cannot afford that. It

leaves you feeling like a failure, it really does. H you always have

that worry your children will not feel happy or beep roads or people

are judging you because you don't have much money. And the result was

that worry. Such in 1999, Tony Blair pledged to

eradicate child poverty by 2020. The current UK Government has announced

plans to scrap that legally binding target and replace it with other

measures, but the Welsh government insists it still aspires to it, but

it is easier to set targets than to find solutions and on wheels that

has proved particularly difficult. Child poverty he remains the highest

in the UK and is forecast to rise. With around 200,000 children living

in poverty, it is clear Welsh governments have not had much

success in tackling the problem. No one believes it will be eradicated

in the next three years but there are crucial factors over the Welsh

government has no control. There are areas the Welsh government does not

have tax and jurisdiction over. The other area is taxation, whereby it

is not actually an option for the Welsh government to massively

increase the social problems designed to tackle poverty because

of limits on public spending which are dictated effectively by

Westminster on the amount of money wheels has to spend? But the Welsh

government's techniques have also been criticised by some who say the

approach has failed to recognise poverty has many different causes.

They say lack of progress on child poverty as a result of treating

symptoms rather than causes as well as a failure to gather proper

evidence about the different circumstances faced by poor

families. Poverty isn't confined to families will no one is in work and

half of people in poverty and in households where someone has a job.

I have had a job now for about four years and personally I don't feel

that having my job has helped me out of any financial situation. I am

better off when I get a nice lump sum at the end of the month but I

have to budget that for the month and like I said it is a struggle to

try to budget with two children and the childcare and everything else.

Successive Welsh governments have developed various strategies and

interventions to try to break the cycle of poverty. The flying start

scheme offers extra support to families with young children in

areas of high deprivation. More than 37,000 children took part in the

programme last year. The less conflicting data on how effective it

is but those working in the field believes that makes a difference and

they want to see more children taking part. Not all children in

families live in a flying start area and one of next calls for the Welsh

government will be to try to influence the manifesto process and

call for them, where there are promising programmes, let's scale

them up and that. Child poverty in Wales is still stubbornly high and

decade after decade that has stymied all attempts to tackle it. Breaking

the cycle for these children and the 200,000 like them across Wales will

remain one of the biggest and most important challenges for the Welsh

government. I feel optimistic I will do the best for my children but I

don't feel supported by the government. I don't think the

politicians when they are talking about benefits and the day-to-day

living expenses are people in my situation, I don't feel they look at

it deep enough. A Welsh Government spokesperson

told The Wales Report, "Although undeniably

challenging, reaffirming our ambition to eradicate child

poverty by 2020 ensures there will be no loss of momentum

towards our goals." They added, "We have provided

almost half a billion pounds for our flagship Flying Start

programme since 2006, while it has also been

protected in the 2016/17 budget at ?77 million

to ensure children continue We are also helping parents

into work and training." Joining me now is the

Children's Commissioner Thank you for coming in. Very

depressing figures to start with and I am wondering, so viewers know

exactly what we're talking about, what do we mean when we say child

poverty? About one third of children in Wales live in poverty, that is

below 60% of median, average income, and about 15% are severely affected,

so we're talking large numbers and we haven't shifted over the last few

years, and I think it is something we mustn't get complacent about, and

in fact we should all be furious about it. We will come onto some of

the potential answers any second, but what do you say to people who

say it is far too narrow a definition that you have just given,

and you need more qualifications are targets or whatever you want to see

and the definition you have given this too narrow? There are other

ways of experiencing poverty that Arent just about income and when we

listen to children there are other aspects of the daily life which are

severely affected by poverty that they can as well, access to

different services and whether they can afford different aspects. Asked

-- access to play and leisure and cultural things but we absolutely

have to measure them, and I was really disappointed recently when

the Westminster Government declare they wouldn't use them, they primary

measure of child poverty. That doesn't make any sense in terms of

understanding how many children are poor. Why would they do that? I felt

they were trying to imply that child poverty was more related to the

behaviour of families, so they were going to be measuring things like

education, and substance abuse and that kind of thing. We know a lot of

things are associated with poverty but to me it makes absolute sense

that if you measure poverty you have to measure income. They have

recently backtracked on that which I was pleased to see. There was a

crucial contribution and we underline that she has a job, and

the lot of the narrative is about people who are not working, but she

has a job and yet finds herself in a difficult financial position. That

is not uncommon? The majority of children living in poverty have at

least one parent who is working and that is something we forget. We have

tended to build up a them and I was seen Ariel, and people living in

poverty have been quite stigmatised in the popular media, and by

messages coming from the top. We have to remember that when we're

talking about children in poverty we may be talking about a parent

getting up at 5am to do a cleaning job or do a night shift, and they

may well have children living in poverty, and they are not lazy and

feckless. When people talking about eradicating child poverty, can we

say that on the basis of what we have now that is not going to

happen? The trajectory shows we will not eradicate child poverty but I do

think it is good to continue having targets and we mustn't lose momentum

or our anxiety. The most worrying thing around all of this was the

analysis that says that it is actually going to get worse, and

we're not even moving towards the target but far-away? Yes, the

current projection is that with the changes to tax and benefits that

have been the in the last year, it is still quite hard to measure how

that will play out because it also depends on job creation and wages,

but the expectation that it get worse. As we approach these

elections in May, is it your feeling that the political parties in Wales

have real grasp of this issue and that they are thinking seriously

about how to get towards that target or not? I think we have a different

political atmosphere in Wales across the political spectrum, and there's

a commitment and worry right across the spectrum, so I would expect

whoever forms the next government to be working hard on child poverty but

the answers to it are not completely agreed on. Most people are committed

to the flying start programme and I think it is great but doesn't reach

children. It doesn't help with families living in the pockets of

poverty outside of the areas targeted, so I think we should be

expanding flying start and helping a lot more with housing costs and

social housing and fuel efficiency and childcare, decent childcare,

good quality universal childcare if possible, that would be a great

boost. We hope to be talking about these things again during the

campaign but thank you. As part of BBC Wales'

How Wales Works season, the main party leaders

in Wales to find out how they would run things

if they won power in May. We have spoken to Ukip,

the Liberal Democrats and Plaid Cymru, and next

week we will hear from Tonight it is the turn

of Andrew RT Davies, the leader of

the Welsh Conservatives. His party is hoping

the build on the successes of the last Assembly Election

in 2011 Before we talk to Mr Davies,

Professor Richard Wyn Jones from the Wales Governance Centre

at Cardiff University takes a look at the challenges

ahead for the Welsh Conservatives. It is clear that the Conservatives

want to make this a straight labour- Conservative fight and want to

continue the momentum that we saw in the May general election last year.

They picked up seats that people just haven't imagined them packing

up. What we know about the conservatives is we know what they

are against, it is very clear what the Welsh Conservatives are against,

and what I find more difficult to work out is what they are for, and

if you are governing ultimately you need some kind of positive project

and vision. Obviously during the election campaign we may well hear

that but the problem is that the election campaign in the context of

the Welsh media, being so weak, is quite a difficult context in which

to project those messages. have a large number of list members.

The lists will be a luxury this time around. The benchmark for success is

winning constituencies. There are some obvious low hanging fruit is,

some pretty marginal seats, but what they will be hoping for is that they

can really turn the tables on Labour in places like North East Wales. If

they do that, frankly, under Andrew RT Davies, it is bombproof. On the

other hand, if they have a disappointing night, I would've

thought his position will become a pretty fragile quite quickly.

Professor Richard Wyn Jones there. Andrew RT Davies joins me now.

We are clearly about change. Changing the landscape of Wales.

Throughout my leadership, we have offered alternatives. Health service

and are protected budget. Creating autonomy for teachers to run the

education system in Wales for the benefit of pupils. Empowering

businesses to make sure they can get easy access to finance. Policies we

have announced. When we criticise the Welsh Government for buying

Cardiff airport, we brought forward a blueprint. At every juncture, we

bring forward a blueprint not just criticise. If we are elected, we

will build a new motorway next year. If you walk into the first ministers

office in me, what is the first bit of proper legislative change with

you will put into place? The legislative change we bring forward

will be in our manifesto. Bills we want to come forward. The first one

is about economic competence. And enterprise Bill that would put the

thinking about driving the Welsh economy forward, so instead of us

following down the league tables, we would have legislated in law and

enterprise Bill to make sure the Welsh Government and public bodies

engage fully in better public procurement of goods and services.

Ultimately, the government would be charged with driving the Welsh

economy forward, rather than managing its decline as it has done.

That would be the first thing and what would be the price tag? A lot

of it is changes to the mentality the way the government works in law.

At the moment, we have had 17 years of managed decline with Labour, the

Liberal Democrats and Plaid Cymru. The first spending commitment is

protecting the NHS budget for five years. We made that commitment in

2011. Regrettably the people of Wales chose to elect a Labour

government that has taken ?1 billion out of the health service. If you

look at cancer waiting times, yesterday I was asking the First

Minister about the appalling state of waiting times for cancer services

in my region of south-west and central Cardiff. I would suggest the

outcomes in Wales regrettably not as good as we want them to be. We want

to ensure the outcomes are improved. That is why we have called for an

independent enquiry into the NHS here in Wales so we can make those

improvements not on political wins are led by clinicians, telling us

what we need to do to improve the health service in Wales. In your

view, the NHS in Wales is still present danger to their health in

certain dashing some circumstances compared to England? In some

hospitals, there are higher mortality figures than income

parable hospitals in England. We have been calling for an enquiry for

three years. Instead of knee jerk reactions from politicians, such as

the special measures after the disaster covered, we need to listen

to clinicians and have an enquiry at the whole NHS, impartially and

independently, to make dramatic improvements across the NHS in

Wales. What of this dependent on funding and basis for taxation in

Wales. Devolving tax powers has been spoken about. Wales Bill is now

under debate. It is on pause whilst the sort out some things that are

wrong with that. What is your take on that? It was always a draft Wales

Bill. The whole point of that is to consult and consider the

representation is being made. This is a great opportunity to empower

the country of Wales through the National Assembly on areas of

transport, energy, electoral arrangements. And major things like

income tax. The Secretary of State... We are having discussions.

The Secretary of State has announced the pause. What do you think is

wrong with that? I have given evidence to the Welsh affairs select

committee. I think all the leaders have done that. The necessity test

has been dropped. We have a genuine powers model. There are areas where

there are agreement and the need to make changes. The Secretary of State

deserves huge credit for saying she has listened to what people have

said, there are going to work it out in consultation and bring it back in

the summer. The Welsh Labour government could learn a lot from

this legislative process. Very often we are exacerbated by Welsh Labour

planning on as if they have a divine right to rule. What is the mean

change you want to see in the bill, so that people know when the bill

comes forward if you have had your conditions met or not? We are

discussing this across Whitehall. The necessity test has been dropped.

We know that. What else? Reserve powers, robust reserve powers model

where the assembly has genuine confidence and where backbench

members can bring forward legislation on areas they have a

democratic mandate to legislate in. I want to see the transfer of income

tax powers, so that brings accountability to the heart of the

way public life functions in Wales. I will continue to drive it forward.

You have made the point again about income tax powers. If Wills is no

longer part of the EU, something you favour, there is going to be a

significant loss of income. Your cancer -- your Conservative

colleagues are saying that. If he comes to campaign with you in me,

what will you say to people? There is a assembly election where people

will vote on local government. Then there will be a referendum. Everyone

will have the opportunity to vote, according to what they think is the

right way for this country to proceed. Ultimately the EU will have

tax-raising powers. I want to make sure that we want a little economic

union that ultimately allows us to trade goods and services across

Europe and across the world. Ultimately that is why I believe we

would be better out. You ask the point about finances and money

coming and. We have a deficit in the money we put into the European Union

of ten billion pounds. We get out about ?6 billion. That is the UK

figure. I can guarantee that a UK Government would make sure that

money would be redistributed around the regions of the United Kingdom,

otherwise it would be failing in its three to deliver help and support to

the nation that it has elected to govern. Frankly we cannot continue

with operation fear of driving people into the ballot box because

you're scaring them into voting one way. The need a rational ardent and

debate. Finally, when you make these arguments and you're telling Welsh

voters seem to think about their assembly and the benefits or not of

been in the European Union, are you saying to them that Wales is going

be better off financially outside the European Union? That is the key

question. Firstly, we need to focus on the assembly election. That is

the first election. The decision you make, that'll stick for five years.

That is the government that will deliver on the health service,

economy, local government and education. The referendum will

happen weeks later. Every man and woman will have a chance to vote as

individuals. This is not about politicians. Yes, it is. A lot of

people out there still believe people will be voting as

politicians. The important thing is the Welsh Conservative Party and the

Conservative Government in the UK have delivered a referendum. Will

Wills be better off financially outside the EU? I believe that will.

I'm choosing to put my cards on the table. We pay 16 billion into the

European Union -- into the European Union, that is the figure for the

UK, and we get 6 billion out. I believe agriculture, structural

support, would benefit and get a boost from us leaving. We will have

a few lively chat in the weeks ahead. Thank you.

The way consume news in Wales has changed dramatically over

the past few years, with many of us now turning

to the internet and more recently to social media.

But a special BBC Wales St David's Poll has shown

that all is not lost for more traditional news outlets.

While consumption of print media in Wales may still

be on the decline, with just 14% of those polled saying they mainly

44% of those polled said they mainly get their news from television -

that is up 5% from last year's survey.

Compared to 29% who said that they mainly

get their news from the internet or social media.

Many argue that the decline of the regional and local

newspaper industry and the dominance of London-based media

- whose coverage of Welsh issues is patchy - has resulted

in a democratic deficit in Wales.

With the Assembly elections and an EU referendum

around the corner, we have been to Caerphilly,

where one newspaper is putting local issues back

Caerphilly Observer started as a website publication in 2009. A lot

of people started asking for paper copies. We were disappointed when we

said it was a website and not an actual newspaper. We launched our

first print edition in 2013. We have not looked back. If you create a

product that is not representative or reflective of the community that

you're to serve, then you're simply going to go out of business because

people are not going to be reading your newspaper. If you give your

content away for free like we do, people are far more inclined to pick

up that newspaper. The days of people paying for years in print I

think I'd definitely numbered. I mean they get my news in the bath on

my Kindle, BBC News website. The internet. The radio, morning TV. Not

newspapers. If papers start disappearing, that is dangerous. To

keep photos and the public informed, you need the press able to

scrutinise politicians and public bodies and institutions. If you take

away that important function of the media, how can voters be informed

when it comes to their decision at the ballot box? Code Caerphilly

Observer be replicated to cover a larger region? I don't know. On this

we have people willing to try these things, we will not find out.

Joining me now is Dr Rebecca Williams

from the University of South Wales.

Kevin Moon, you are known for being in charge of what people recognise

as a successful product, but that is changing form? Very much so, and

changes rapidly almost every year, but the important thing to remember

is that although print is in decline and nobody will argue with that, our

audience know across a variety of platforms and particularly online is

bigger than ten years ago. In your view, is it also to do with the fact

that more than ever, we have a younger generation whose way of

accessing information is totally different and they have far more

things available to them, so the concept of news from the newspaper

is perhaps something quaint and old-fashioned. I think so, and for a

lot of young people know, something like Twitter is where they get

breaking news, and the idea of paying to access anything is quite

different from that generation. And I think the idea certainly of going

out and making the effort to buy a newspaper is something that seems

quite Alien to the younger generation. So two things, the price

factor, especially for the business looking at its income stream, and

secondly, trying to provide things and I am mentioning the younger

generation, in a different way, so what have you done practically to

come around those things? It is local newspapers across the country,

and we produce our information in print and online and through mobile

and social media, and I think Rebecca is right to see that younger

people get breaking news from Twitter and sheer to amongst friends

on Facebook, but they tend to go to a long-standing news sources to get

into verified. That is a fascinating point and as we head towards the

busy election period, what do both of you make about the importance of

having reliable, trusted sources of information, what is it about the

media landscape in Wales that causes you concerned? I think one of the

main issue is with getting information through social media is

that we tend to follow or be friends with people quite similar to us, and

I think we saw that quite a lot last year in the run-up to the general

election, where there was quite a lot of positivity that may be Labour

could win that election and that didn't turn out to be the case, and

I think there's that echo chamber effect, where you tend to view the

opinions you already agree with, and I think that is maybe a threat in

terms of finding it other policies and competing viewpoints, that if we

only surround ourselves with the viewpoint of people who agree with

those, I think there are some limits to how we can learn about what all

other options are. Just a final point, about the state of the Welsh

media, and whether you think that we overdo the concerns, and I will come

to Kevin in a moment, but Rebecca, what is your thought as you look to

the landscape? Do you think, with Scotland, is the Welsh media in a

rather parlous state or not? We are right to be concerned about it and I

think the more people who are now apparently watching television,

there has been an increase in VAT, and I think we need to be concerned

about the future of the BBC generally and in the decline in

newspapers, and I think we need to think about ways we can tackle all

of those things. Two thoughts for you to close, are you conscious of

being in a media industry in Wales which is giving cause for concern,

and secondly, where is your particular model, in press terms,

going to be in five years' time? On the first point, I think the Welsh

media across all platforms is in a relatively robust state, and the

bigger issue in terms of that information that people are gleaming

is that the vast majority of people on wheels get information from the

national media, and in terms of in five years' time, I think that what

will happen and we have already seen happen is that there will be more of

daily newspapers that potentially become weekly newspapers, but that

is about profitability rather than sales, and we didn't even get onto

talking about free newspapers. That is for another time, but thank you

both. If you would like to get

in touch with us, email us at [email protected],

or follow us on social media -

we arere @TheWalesReport. Thanks for watching.

Diolch am eich cwmni, nos da.