01/02/2017 The Wales Report


01/02/2017

Bethan Rhys Roberts takes a look at issues that matter in Wales. As Brexit negotiations continue, she speaks to Wales's voice at the Cabinet table, Welsh secretary Alun Cairns.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 01/02/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

It's official - the Brexit process is underway.

:00:00.:00:00.

We speak to Wales' voice at the cabinet table,

:00:00.:00:09.

And protecting our past for future generations ?

:00:10.:00:14.

could plans to create a new heritage body

:00:15.:00:17.

Change is coming, but that change must leave our heritage

:00:18.:00:31.

organisations with the expertise and cloud to be able to protect our

:00:32.:00:32.

historic treasures. -- cloud. Good evening and welcome

:00:33.:00:36.

to The Wales Report. So, the Brexit journey

:00:37.:00:45.

has gone up a gear. Tonight, MPs voted with

:00:46.:00:47.

the Government to get the formal A little earlier, two days of debate

:00:48.:00:51.

on triggering Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty to start

:00:52.:01:08.

that process came to a close, with a majority in favour

:01:09.:01:11.

of starting official talks between the UK and

:01:12.:01:13.

the European Union. The ayes to the right, 498, the noes

:01:14.:01:23.

to the left, 114. So the ayes have it. The ayes have it.

:01:24.:01:27.

So, they have had their say, and now you can have yours.

:01:28.:01:29.

You can join in the discussion tonight.

:01:30.:01:31.

In a minute, we will be speaking to Wales' voice at the Cabinet table,

:01:32.:01:45.

Alun Cairns. But how far apart at the British and

:01:46.:01:47.

world governments? Here's political

:01:48.:01:47.

commentator Daran Hill. I think the British government are

:01:48.:01:53.

in a difficult position. They don't have any legal right to impact on

:01:54.:01:57.

the final decision, but in a moral and political reasons, -- there are

:01:58.:02:03.

moral and article reasons why they need to be involved. It seems to me

:02:04.:02:07.

that over the last few weeks, particularly from the point when

:02:08.:02:11.

Theresa May set out their stall with the 12 points that she illustrated,

:02:12.:02:16.

and then we saw clear white paper from the Welsh government in terms

:02:17.:02:20.

of what they wanted, there is a lot less bluster around now, and people

:02:21.:02:25.

can actually, hopefully, from both sides look to come together and try

:02:26.:02:27.

to achieve what is best for Wales. Someone who was

:02:28.:02:29.

at that meeting on Monday is Finance Secretary

:02:30.:02:32.

Mark Drakeford. The First Minister for Wales again

:02:33.:02:43.

emphasised our top priority is full and unfettered participation in the

:02:44.:02:46.

single market, because that will have the greatest economic impact

:02:47.:02:50.

here in Wales. The Prime Minister agreed at the end of the meeting

:02:51.:02:54.

that there should be intensification of discussions of these matters at

:02:55.:02:59.

the GMC that has been set up for this particular purpose. It is very

:03:00.:03:03.

important from the devolved administration's point of view that

:03:04.:03:06.

we get on with that work, we do it pays only -- purposefully, and that

:03:07.:03:13.

the views we are expressing in that form are seen to make a difference

:03:14.:03:17.

to the UK Government's negotiating position. I think we begin to hear

:03:18.:03:20.

UK ministers use some of the language we have used in relation to

:03:21.:03:25.

the importance of access to the single market, the fullest possible

:03:26.:03:29.

access. The Prime Minister said the extent

:03:30.:03:32.

to which the UK Government is prepared to make the necessary

:03:33.:03:37.

trade-offs between single market access and other parts of the

:03:38.:03:41.

negotiations is something we need to pursue with the remaining JNC

:03:42.:03:47.

discussions. We say unambiguously that Wales must do no words out of

:03:48.:03:51.

our membership of the United Kingdom than we have done out of our

:03:52.:03:55.

membership of the European Union, and we will pursue that line of

:03:56.:03:57.

argument throughout the discussions. The Finance Secretary

:03:58.:03:59.

Mark Drakeford there. Earlier, I spoke to the Secretary

:04:00.:04:00.

of State for Wales, I asked him how much of a voice

:04:01.:04:10.

Wales and the Welsh government should have in those negotiations.

:04:11.:04:13.

Well, Wales has got a strong say. I sat on the Cabinet subcommittee and

:04:14.:04:19.

the Cabinet committee that will ultimately make the decision, but in

:04:20.:04:25.

getting to that decision, or those decisions, there are the joint

:04:26.:04:29.

ministerial committee, the one that the Prime Minister chaired earlier

:04:30.:04:32.

this week, as well as the fortnightly meeting that David Davis

:04:33.:04:35.

chairs. So I have the privilege of sitting on all of them, and on top

:04:36.:04:40.

of that, we have the bilateral arrangements that I meet the First

:04:41.:04:44.

Minister regularly, and talk to Mark Drakeford, leaving for the Welsh

:04:45.:04:48.

government, too. But you have made clear this is a UK Government

:04:49.:04:51.

decision. We know what the Welsh government

:04:52.:04:54.

wants when it comes to, for example, the single market. They want full

:04:55.:05:00.

and unfettered access. Will they get that?

:05:01.:05:02.

Well, we want a free trade agreement, and I think the Welsh

:05:03.:05:06.

government have recognised that their phrasing of unfettered access

:05:07.:05:10.

to the single market is not inconsistent with the Prime Minister

:05:11.:05:13.

and the UK Government's position that we want a free trade agreement.

:05:14.:05:17.

So on that basis, I am confident that we can get a deal that works

:05:18.:05:20.

for every part of the UK, including Wales. A manufacturer based in Wales

:05:21.:05:25.

will have similar concerns to one based in the West Midlands or east

:05:26.:05:29.

Midlands, and farmers based in Wales will have similar concerns to

:05:30.:05:33.

farmers based in Cumbria or Scotland.

:05:34.:05:35.

So you are saying that the Welsh government, we will get full and

:05:36.:05:39.

unfettered access to the single market, your wording, I think, as a

:05:40.:05:43.

government, is the greatest possible access. Is there a difference there?

:05:44.:05:48.

Well, the First Minister has said that he doesn't see an

:05:49.:05:51.

inconsistency. Do you think there is a difference? No, I don't think

:05:52.:05:54.

there is a difference, because we want a free trade agreement which is

:05:55.:05:58.

similar to that which Canada has got, which Mexico has got, but we

:05:59.:06:01.

want one which is right for the UK, and on that basis, we will negotiate

:06:02.:06:07.

on a deal that works for every part of the country and Wales being a

:06:08.:06:10.

fundamental part. So that means freedom of movement,

:06:11.:06:15.

doesn't it? If we have full and unfettered access to the single

:06:16.:06:18.

market, we have two except free movement of people? Well, we want a

:06:19.:06:24.

free trade agreement. Free trade agreements don't have the same

:06:25.:06:29.

principle of the free movement of people. Immigration is a good thing,

:06:30.:06:34.

but on that basis, we need to manage immigration appropriately to make

:06:35.:06:37.

sure it works for every community in the UK and specifically Wales.

:06:38.:06:42.

Well, these are part of the negotiations, so that is why we want

:06:43.:06:45.

a free trade agreement, but membership of the single market that

:06:46.:06:48.

some are calling for requires free movement of people, so on that

:06:49.:06:51.

basis, we cannot be a member of the single market, because that would

:06:52.:06:58.

mean remaining a member of the EU by some other name. So therefore, we

:06:59.:07:02.

want a free trade agreement that would allow a Welsh business or a

:07:03.:07:05.

Welsh farmer 's import and export to and from Europe. It is in Europe's

:07:06.:07:11.

interest that our economy continues to grow, as well as in our interest

:07:12.:07:15.

that Europe continues to grow. We went Europe to be a success,

:07:16.:07:19.

although we will have a slightly different relationship. So to be

:07:20.:07:21.

clear, we would no longer be a member of the single market, but

:07:22.:07:24.

would have full and unfettered access to it, we wouldn't except

:07:25.:07:28.

free movement of people, so there would be a cost. There would be a

:07:29.:07:32.

financial cost, and we would be paying into the EU pot, wouldn't we

:07:33.:07:36.

tee we have said that we want a free trade agreement. There will be terms

:07:37.:07:40.

associated with that free trade agreement, and that's what the

:07:41.:07:45.

negotiations are about. Me too outline exactly the detail terms,

:07:46.:07:49.

because there are two macro parties to negotiation, and on that basis,

:07:50.:07:52.

we want to get the deal that work for everybody in the UK. But the

:07:53.:07:55.

Prime Minister has also said that no deal is better than a bad deal, so I

:07:56.:08:03.

am optimistic. Let's just stay and contributions. It was a big part of

:08:04.:08:06.

the referendum. People fed up of paying into Brussels, and what we

:08:07.:08:13.

have had from is that we will no longer be making that contributions

:08:14.:08:17.

to the EU. -- what we have had from Theresa May. Their words are that we

:08:18.:08:22.

will not be paying vast sums, but will still be paying into the pot, I

:08:23.:08:25.

will have to pay to get access to the single market. The people of

:08:26.:08:29.

Wales want to know will Welsh taxpayers still be paying into the

:08:30.:08:33.

EU pot, yes or no? I think you are reading between the lines and coming

:08:34.:08:37.

up with a conclusion we simply have not got to. There is a negotiation

:08:38.:08:41.

that will take place. Clearly, I want the best deal that works for

:08:42.:08:44.

every part of the UK and I am at the Cabinet table. Clearly, but I am

:08:45.:08:49.

just wondering whether you can give Welsh taxpayers, then, I guarantee

:08:50.:08:54.

that they won't be paying into an EU pot? Can you give that guarantee?

:08:55.:08:58.

This is part of a negotiation. I can't second-guess where we will get

:08:59.:09:02.

to, because there is a long way to go with that process. I am

:09:03.:09:05.

optimistic with our relationship with Europe. We want Europe to

:09:06.:09:08.

succeed and we believe it is in their interest for us to continue to

:09:09.:09:11.

grow. We have the fastest growing economy in the developed world, and

:09:12.:09:15.

the fastest in Europe, and if you think back to the recession over the

:09:16.:09:22.

last five or six, seven years ago, when we were at risk of a double dip

:09:23.:09:27.

or even triple dip recession, it is the UK that drag Europe out of that

:09:28.:09:30.

recession, so therefore I am optimistic that we need to get that

:09:31.:09:33.

good deal that works through every part of the UK and every industry,

:09:34.:09:37.

particularly in Wales. You are an optimistic Brexiteer.

:09:38.:09:41.

Back in June, you were saying we need EU because the economy is built

:09:42.:09:47.

around it, Tata depends on it, manufacturing and the automotive

:09:48.:09:49.

industry depend on it. You have clearly changed your mind, and you

:09:50.:09:55.

could argue you are following the Democratic vote, but personally, how

:09:56.:09:58.

do you find that? How difficult is it personally to be doing now in

:09:59.:10:01.

favour of something you very much opposed a few months ago? Well, we

:10:02.:10:06.

have been given direction by the British people, but specifically, in

:10:07.:10:09.

Wales, by the Welsh people, who voted to leave the EU. But I would

:10:10.:10:14.

also say the same time, there were many independent and economists that

:10:15.:10:18.

said we would be in recession by this stage. That is not the case. In

:10:19.:10:23.

fact, the IMF has upgraded the growth projection for the UK. So

:10:24.:10:29.

were you on the wrong side of the argument during a referendum? Were

:10:30.:10:33.

you wrong? Well, I think when the facts change, and there is an

:10:34.:10:35.

outcome of a referendum, you have got to act on that, and develop the

:10:36.:10:40.

approach according to the fact that exist at the time. But do you group

:10:41.:10:45.

regret the way you campaign? Know, at the time, that was the best

:10:46.:10:49.

information we had available, but the public in Wales and across the

:10:50.:10:52.

UK rejected that and therefore, we said that the referendum would be

:10:53.:10:57.

binding and work on that, and that is what we are doing. Now, no land

:10:58.:11:02.

grab has been said about the powers that are currently in Brussels, that

:11:03.:11:06.

Theresa May won't be effecting any land grab of powers, and anything

:11:07.:11:11.

that is devolved will be coming straight back to Wales. Is that your

:11:12.:11:15.

understanding? And fisheries, and fishing, everything will come

:11:16.:11:19.

directly to Cardiff a? That is the principal on the bases which we are

:11:20.:11:24.

working. We want devolution. The Wales Bill has just passed,

:11:25.:11:26.

extending the powers of the Welsh government and assembly extensively,

:11:27.:11:30.

and I hope people would like the approach we took there to

:11:31.:11:34.

demonstrate the approach we will take to negotiate in the accident of

:11:35.:11:38.

the European Union and where there's powers will lie. I would also say at

:11:39.:11:47.

the same time, we need to get the transitions and make the other

:11:48.:11:49.

devolved leaders realise that the market within the UK works as well,

:11:50.:11:54.

so state aid rules, for example, and there needs to be a framework that

:11:55.:11:58.

will work for every part of the UK. So I am optimistic we can get to

:11:59.:12:01.

that position. No specific decisions on individual elements have yet been

:12:02.:12:05.

taken, because we don't know the form of a negotiation yet with the

:12:06.:12:10.

EU, but we have talked about the principle that we want to devolve as

:12:11.:12:14.

much as possible, we want to give as much flexibility to the devolved

:12:15.:12:17.

administrations to act within the areas that they act at the moment,

:12:18.:12:22.

but of course, we need to ensure that the UK market works as well as

:12:23.:12:26.

the positives that come out of exiting the European Union or the

:12:27.:12:29.

new positives, I would say, and that is striking trade deals with other

:12:30.:12:35.

parts of the world. So at the UK Government negotiates with the parts

:12:36.:12:39.

of the world, be that Australia or North America, for example, we need

:12:40.:12:43.

to be able to command a negotiating position that takes all of the UK

:12:44.:12:46.

with us. And on that, and free-trade deals

:12:47.:12:50.

beyond EU, what will be the approach? Will it be a bit like

:12:51.:12:55.

Trump, America first? Will it be Britain's first tee will there be a

:12:56.:12:59.

Briton and a Wales which is more protectionist after Brexit? Is that

:13:00.:13:04.

the model? You would expect any Prime Minister of the United Kingdom

:13:05.:13:06.

to put the United Kingdom's interests first. Those are -- that

:13:07.:13:12.

is the basis on which we are working. We want trade agreement

:13:13.:13:15.

internationally. Lots of countries are showing interest in negotiating

:13:16.:13:18.

with us, but the trade deal on the right terms that work for us as well

:13:19.:13:23.

as for that nation. And I think there is a great prospect. The Prime

:13:24.:13:27.

Minister has said she wants the UK to be global leaders in free trade,

:13:28.:13:31.

but that is not to undermine any particular sector of the UK economy.

:13:32.:13:37.

We are seeing as an open economy, we gain economic recognition for being

:13:38.:13:40.

an open economy, and economic benefits as a result. Continue along

:13:41.:13:46.

that track, it offers great benefits to Wales in the UK.

:13:47.:13:49.

And relationships with the US will be crucial in trade deals. Let's

:13:50.:13:52.

talk about Mr Trump. You would love to see him in Wales, you have said.

:13:53.:13:56.

We think he is coming on a state visit at the moment. You would

:13:57.:13:58.

welcome him in Wales? An invitation has been extended and

:13:59.:14:07.

that has been received and accepted and we are working on that basis. He

:14:08.:14:13.

will be welcome to the United Kingdom and Wales is the fundamental

:14:14.:14:16.

part of the UK and that is the way we will continue to act. Were we

:14:17.:14:21.

quick as the government to roll out the red carpet for him?

:14:22.:14:25.

The best way to influence any world leader is to engage positively to

:14:26.:14:30.

them. If you go back to last three, the Prime Minister went to

:14:31.:14:34.

Washington, there were some concerns as to some of the comments that had

:14:35.:14:38.

been made during the presidential campaign about the President's's

:14:39.:14:46.

attitude towards Nato. But by engaging positively, the Prime

:14:47.:14:56.

Minister got the 100% support of the president. The June oh Theresa May

:14:57.:15:04.

new Donald Trump would make an announcement on the restrictions on

:15:05.:15:12.

travel from seven Muslim countries? Metcher is made of those comments at

:15:13.:15:16.

the time but since then I've I wonder she knew he was going to make

:15:17.:15:20.

that announcement. She has made her position clear and

:15:21.:15:26.

I have made my position clear that we disagree. The only way to try to

:15:27.:15:30.

influence somebody positively is by engaging with them. So she did not

:15:31.:15:35.

know? You are in the cabinet with her. Did she knows he was about to

:15:36.:15:40.

make that announcement? The Prime Minister made it clear she disagrees

:15:41.:15:46.

with it. I don't see the logic behind the question because the

:15:47.:15:49.

Prime Minister has made it clear. The Prime Minister always acts on

:15:50.:15:54.

evidence. It has been some confusion coming out of the State Department

:15:55.:15:57.

about the details surrounding the statement. If she did know, I wonder

:15:58.:16:02.

if she encouraged him not to go ahead with it. If she did not know,

:16:03.:16:07.

what does that say about the relationship? Once she is out the

:16:08.:16:11.

door he lands aid bombshell that perhaps she would have had like to

:16:12.:16:17.

have knowledge of. Donald Trump is one of the most powerful leaders in

:16:18.:16:21.

the world. We should engage positively with them. It is in our

:16:22.:16:28.

interest to try to influence positively towards... For them to

:16:29.:16:35.

understand our position. That is the mature way in which any relationship

:16:36.:16:40.

works whereby you can say when you disagree with the policy, as the

:16:41.:16:44.

Prime Minister has understandably said, but also you can try to

:16:45.:16:47.

influence them, to win them around to see things your way. Given those

:16:48.:16:53.

comments now, I went if you feel it would be wise to postpone the state

:16:54.:16:59.

visit until next year, perhaps, or is it any much as soon as is of?

:17:00.:17:05.

An invitation has been extended, that has then received and accepted.

:17:06.:17:10.

On that basis the Times would be negotiated between the governments.

:17:11.:17:13.

That is the mature way in which to engage. The more positive influence

:17:14.:17:18.

we can have on any world leader is it good thing for the UK. If Wales

:17:19.:17:24.

is part of the UK and this to have its own influence, I want to play

:17:25.:17:28.

any part of it. The Brexit negotiations get underway. That is

:17:29.:17:35.

at the time when the long torturous nights, discussing The Wales Bill

:17:36.:17:39.

had come to an end. You must be glad to see the back of that. That is the

:17:40.:17:44.

bumpy ride. I was confident The Wales Bill would go through because

:17:45.:17:51.

it was eight good deal for Wales. That means any -based funding

:17:52.:17:55.

settlement has been introduced. What that means is Wales gets additional

:17:56.:18:01.

resource because of the special circumstances in Wales. You and I

:18:02.:18:05.

will know that opposition politicians, labour, Plaid Cymru,

:18:06.:18:08.

the Liberal Democrat and Conservative politicians have been

:18:09.:18:11.

asking for this for over the decade. I was delighted that as Secretary

:18:12.:18:18.

state for Wales, it was UK Conservative government that could

:18:19.:18:21.

bring about in long-term fair funding settlement for Wales. They

:18:22.:18:26.

are not my words, they are the world of Jeremy Hunt. -- Jeremy Hall firm.

:18:27.:18:36.

Those politicians you mention are calling for a new settlement. This

:18:37.:18:41.

doesn't constitute the end. Can you guarantee they will not be another

:18:42.:18:45.

The Wales Bill? Powers are returning from the

:18:46.:18:51.

European Union and many of those will be devolved as we have said in

:18:52.:18:54.

terms of the principles as word approaching it. Devolution will

:18:55.:19:00.

involve to the change in circumstances that take place, as

:19:01.:19:04.

the economy demands more we will look at that. As the economy demands

:19:05.:19:09.

may be different sort of devolution, where power goes direct to

:19:10.:19:13.

communities, that is positive thing as well. We are not fixed in our

:19:14.:19:18.

dears. This is lasting settlement that gives is clarity but it gives

:19:19.:19:23.

the most fair, generous funding settlement is we have seen. Thank

:19:24.:19:26.

you very much. So that's a look at the future,

:19:27.:19:28.

perhaps, but what about our past? The Welsh Government

:19:29.:19:31.

wants to introduce a new It would bring together

:19:32.:19:33.

the commercial parts of National Museums Wales and Cadw,

:19:34.:19:37.

an arm of the Welsh Government responsible for protecting

:19:38.:19:41.

historic sites. The idea of a merger though has

:19:42.:19:44.

caused great concern among experts, who believe it could undermine

:19:45.:19:48.

the independence of our national museums and leave the

:19:49.:19:51.

organisation as they put it What is it about Wales that is

:19:52.:20:19.

unique, special and worth protecting? Heritage is incredibly

:20:20.:20:25.

important to our country whose national identity has been

:20:26.:20:28.

challenged time and time again by the march of history. It is how we

:20:29.:20:33.

tell our national story both to ourselves and to the world. Stories

:20:34.:20:39.

like the one that unfolded here in Monmouth where chartists were tried

:20:40.:20:44.

for high treason following the Newport rising. To some extent, we

:20:45.:20:52.

define ourselves by these events. So why is the heritage sector in Wales

:20:53.:20:56.

finding itself put on trial? The numbers tell their own story.

:20:57.:21:02.

Heritage sites attract 30 million visitors annually and contribute

:21:03.:21:07.

?750 million to the economy. But we can't simply look at this in terms

:21:08.:21:12.

of cold, hard finance. Heritage is too important to be left to

:21:13.:21:18.

accountant. That is why decent proposals have left the heritage

:21:19.:21:22.

sector reeling. The commercial operations of our main providers,

:21:23.:21:26.

national museums Wales and Cadw could be merged into new

:21:27.:21:30.

organisation end the umbrella title of Historic Wales. Most government

:21:31.:21:35.

argued this would make the sector more robust. That may well be true.

:21:36.:21:43.

The merger may leave is better equipped to pay for our heritage but

:21:44.:21:47.

will it leave is properly equipped to protect it? Independence is

:21:48.:21:53.

important here. The national museum operates at arms length from Welsh

:21:54.:21:57.

Government and any effort to change that relationship would be without

:21:58.:22:02.

precedent in the British Isles. No other national museum in the UK is

:22:03.:22:08.

directly run by its government. And for good reason. Do you really want

:22:09.:22:15.

politicians deciding which part of Welsh distillery are the right parts

:22:16.:22:18.

to share with the nation and the world? Museums must not freely of

:22:19.:22:23.

political control or their ability to tell the story of our history

:22:24.:22:28.

will be severely compromised. Of course, we are in any time of

:22:29.:22:32.

squeezed public spending and heritage institutions are not immune

:22:33.:22:36.

to this and need to adapt. But there adaptation have to mean loss of

:22:37.:22:41.

control? All the while, you can't escape the feeling we have been here

:22:42.:22:46.

before. In 2014, the Welsh Government attempted to merge Cadw

:22:47.:22:51.

with the Royal commission on the historical monuments of Wales. In

:22:52.:22:55.

the face of huge academic and professional hostility the Welsh

:22:56.:22:59.

Government caved on an unpopular proposal which threatened the

:23:00.:23:01.

independence of our heritage providers. We seem to be in the same

:23:02.:23:08.

position now. Have lessons being learned? Or our Welsh Government is

:23:09.:23:13.

going against expert advice and the weight of opinion? Changes come in.

:23:14.:23:19.

That change must leave our heritage organisations with the expertise and

:23:20.:23:23.

clout to be able to protect our historic treasures.

:23:24.:23:27.

The Welsh Government has provided us with the following statement.

:23:28.:23:32.

I'm joined now by Sharon Heal, the Director of the UK

:23:33.:23:53.

Museums Association and the Labour AM Jeremy Miles.

:23:54.:24:01.

Thank you for joining us. Jeremy Miles, let's start off with

:24:02.:24:08.

independence, the points made there. It is crucial. Why change that and

:24:09.:24:13.

why involve the government in the running of museums?

:24:14.:24:16.

The challenge is in the context of financial pressures to find the

:24:17.:24:20.

model which preserves the institution 's ability to protect

:24:21.:24:23.

our heritage but to extend their reach as far as possible. It is the

:24:24.:24:28.

question of finding the right model for doing that. I does recognise the

:24:29.:24:34.

model described in the film. What has been talked about is how the

:24:35.:24:38.

institutions through new body, Historic Wales, can collaborate on

:24:39.:24:42.

the commercial side of things they do rather than an institutional

:24:43.:24:45.

merger which is the sort thing described. Is embedded danger that

:24:46.:24:53.

if you merge the commercial functions that not only will you

:24:54.:24:57.

create the new layout of bureaucracy, another tier of staff

:24:58.:25:01.

and that will end up mired in as bureaucracy but also there is danger

:25:02.:25:06.

you take the opportunity to control and develop that commercial income

:25:07.:25:10.

away from the national museum and away from Cadw as separate

:25:11.:25:16.

organisations? The presses have been obvious for some times. The

:25:17.:25:19.

institutions have been collaborating to try and generate more revenue. It

:25:20.:25:24.

hasn't happened to the extent it needs to happen. What about the

:25:25.:25:29.

editorial independence of museums? Is embedded danger that perhaps

:25:30.:25:33.

Labour government could stress industrial heritage come if we had

:25:34.:25:38.

the Plaid Cymru government they could promote more nationalistic

:25:39.:25:42.

exhibitions in museums. Nobody is talking about that model. But that

:25:43.:25:50.

is the concern. It is possible to find the model which preserves as it

:25:51.:25:54.

should the independence of the institutions but also enables them

:25:55.:25:57.

to work together, to generate revenue. Take the BBC that you

:25:58.:26:06.

having public broadcaster Anne Patterson is being compromised by

:26:07.:26:12.

having eight commercial arm. -- and that hasn't been compromised. It

:26:13.:26:19.

bring money into the Potter people can do what they like in museums.

:26:20.:26:24.

That is misunderstanding of what the commercial functions of museums and

:26:25.:26:28.

galleries are because it isn't just about who runs the cafe, it isn't

:26:29.:26:32.

just about running the shop and retail. Museums have worked hard to

:26:33.:26:36.

generate more income from those sources that it is also about

:26:37.:26:41.

programming, exhibitions, it is about deciding about school visits

:26:42.:26:45.

and community engagement. If you take away the ability of those

:26:46.:26:49.

organisations to be able to determine that, you really disengage

:26:50.:26:52.

them from their own future. That isn't necessarily what is on the

:26:53.:27:00.

table. What is on the table? There is steering group where all the

:27:01.:27:03.

institutions are represented and they are coming up with the model

:27:04.:27:07.

which addresses all the concerns you are talking about. They are

:27:08.:27:11.

participants in that discussions. Do you acknowledge the current way is

:27:12.:27:18.

untenable? Or do you want the status quo?

:27:19.:27:23.

National museums Wales have been at the forefront of leading

:27:24.:27:26.

collaboration and partnership that not just collaboration and

:27:27.:27:31.

partnership with the national organisations, collaboration with

:27:32.:27:33.

their communities and that is the key and at the heart of what museums

:27:34.:27:37.

should be doing in order for them to develop as they sustainable future.

:27:38.:27:43.

No one is saying the status quo, even with the existing

:27:44.:27:46.

collaborations is the way forward. Finally, when Lulu be getting the

:27:47.:27:53.

reports? That's when will we stop it is intended to be early in the year.

:27:54.:27:56.

And you both very much. If you'd like to get

:27:57.:27:58.

in touch email us at Or follow us on social media

:27:59.:28:03.

where the discussion continues. We'll be back next week.

:28:04.:28:09.

Thanks for watching.

:28:10.:28:13.

Bethan Rhys Roberts asks the questions that matter to you about your job, your health, your future.

As Brexit negotiations continue, she speaks to Wales's voice at the Cabinet table, Welsh secretary Alun Cairns.

And do proposed changes to the Welsh heritage sector safeguard the past for future generations?


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS