Browse content similar to 08/02/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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We talk about the state of social care in Wales - | :00:00. | :00:09. | |
faced with rising demand and increasing costs. | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
The Brexit journey for Wales, and its effect on Labour. | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
We'll be talking to the former leadership contender Owen Smith. | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
And, the rising rate of suicide among men. | :00:20. | :00:22. | |
We'll be talking about tackling isolation and stigma. | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
Good evening, and welcome to The Wales Report. | :00:26. | :00:36. | |
First tonight, the cost of social care in Wales is set to double, | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
more or less, over the next 15 years as the population grows older. | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
The question is, how will that growing demand be met? | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
Remember, you can join in the discussion tonight ? | :00:47. | :00:48. | |
As we approach local government elections in May, | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
one of the questions is how care services provided at home, | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
as well as in residential care homes, are funded. | :00:58. | :01:00. | |
The Welsh Local Government Association says this is the biggest | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
problem faced not just by them but by all decision-makers | :01:04. | :01:06. | |
In a moment, Bethan Rhys Roberts will be asking the Minister | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
for Social Services, Rebecca Evans AM, how she intends | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
to deal with the increasing pressure on the system. | :01:15. | :01:16. | |
Deciding you need support from social services isn't easy for | :01:17. | :01:32. | |
anyone. Margaret Morgan and her husband, Malcolm, always thought | :01:33. | :01:39. | |
they'd be able to stay in their own home, but Malcolm has dementia and | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
he now needs round-the-clock care in a residential home. It hasn't turned | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
out as it was planned. We'd spoken about this quite often and we bought | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
we might be able to live at home and stay at home, but the condition that | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
Malcolm has now, I couldn't look after him at home. I did for as long | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
as I could, and it would have been impossible. Nursing in care homes | :02:03. | :02:10. | |
like this are a vital part of the social care system. They provide | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
around 23,000 beds across Wales, doubled the amount available in the | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
Welsh NHS, so it's clear that homes like this do help to ease the | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
pressure on hospitals. There are concerns that, despite fewer cuts to | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
social care here than in England over the last few years, the care | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
market in Wales is fragile, and that makes the system unsustainable. For | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
Margaret, Malcolm and many others, it's an uncomfortable truth. I worry | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
what I'm going to do and what is going to happen. I don't know what's | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
going to happen. If they haven't got any money now and there are going to | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
be many more older people, it's not a problem that's going to diminish. | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
It's to get worse. It's a great problem. The county of Conwy offers | :02:57. | :03:05. | |
a glimpse of the future. Across Wales, one in five people are over | :03:06. | :03:11. | |
65 but, dear, it's oh -- it's one in four. The proportion in the rest of | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
Wales is opposed to reach that by 2032. Cared -- care providers say | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
that while demand is growing the number of community beds available | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
is shrinking, which in turn is putting more pressure on the health | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
service. Recently we have had seven care homes closing in the county | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
with the loss of 133 beds, 8.4% of local provision, and that's been on | :03:38. | :03:44. | |
top of the homes that have closed in recent years. We've lost around 20% | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
of our provision. We can't meet the current demand, so we are seeing | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
problems in the local hospitals, where there is delayed transfer of | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
care. The deputy manager of the home says the care needs of residents are | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
becoming more and more complex. The needs of clients coming in are | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
increasing. We seem to be getting a lot more residents with quite | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
chronic conditions, sometimes quite acute illnesses that we are looking | :04:15. | :04:22. | |
after their in the homes, rather than, I would imagine in the past, | :04:23. | :04:24. | |
they would have been hospitalised. They are becoming more dependent. In | :04:25. | :04:33. | |
contrast to England, most Welsh care homes are run by small, independent | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
providers meaning that, when costs go up, they are more vulnerable. The | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
pressure is so great now that are having to provide more hours of care | :04:42. | :04:48. | |
than they are being paid for. We are currently funded to provide 23 care | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
hours per resident per week, but we are actually delivering 25, so the | :04:53. | :04:59. | |
two hours per resident per week shortfall we are having to make | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
ourselves from our own funding. These are the most vulnerable people | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
in society we are looking -- we are looking after and we have to make | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
sure we deliver care that they need, and those needs are increasing. They | :05:12. | :05:18. | |
have increased significantly. Funding hasn't kept up. Local | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
government in Wales has called for the funding crisis in social care, | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
including residential care and care at home, to be addressed urgently, | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
but it's the long-term pressures that cause real concern. The health | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
foundation recently published a report which shows the current cost | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
of social care in Wales is 2.3 billion. By 2030, it nearly doubles. | :05:39. | :05:48. | |
The question is, if local authority budgets have gone back in recent | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
years to levels that we had in 2004, 2005, no growth in those benefits, | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
how are we going to meet at anticipated growth in social care? | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
It is clear that social care and health care depend on each other, so | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
local health boards, local authorities and care providers need | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
to work more closely together to deliver a joined up service. I think | :06:11. | :06:18. | |
that's starting to occur in many places. We are starting to see the | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
integrated care fund, ?50 million, where local authorities work closely | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
with authorities, great schemes like extra care schemes, a range of | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
strategies around learning disabilities, but we need to up our | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
game and make sure that those are not isolated examples of good | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
practice, but that good practice travels across Wales. Others believe | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
that poor planning and a lack of political leadership are to blame | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
for the situation. I think we are seeing, in a relatively mild winter, | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
huge pressures and not just in Wales but across the UK, and this is no | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
surprise. This should be no surprise to anybody. The fact that we still | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
don't have an integrated independent care sector of ring step-down | :07:05. | :07:11. | |
respite beds, that is able to care for people with dementia in crisis | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
situations, there is not any cohesive structure to do that, and | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
we should have that by now. The reality is that we are 1 million | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
miles away from where we need to be, where we could have been, and we | :07:26. | :07:33. | |
need a wake-up call. Is that, as Wales's population continues to grow | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
older, demand on both health and social services services will | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
continue to rise. So the difficult question politicians need to address | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
now is, just how will that demand be met? | :07:45. | :07:45. | |
Bethan Rhys Roberts talking to Social Services | :07:46. | :07:47. | |
and Public Health Minister Rebecca Evans. | :07:48. | :07:54. | |
How do you see it? Are we facing a crisis in social care? The Welsh | :07:55. | :08:02. | |
government is under no illusions that there are real pressures in the | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
social care sector, which is why we have prioritised it as a sector of | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
strategic importance, and whilst in England they are cutting the funding | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
for social care, in Wales we are investing in it. An extra ?25 | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
million in the budget for social care this year and an extra ?10 | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
million to recognise the extra pressures the national living wage | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
will put on the sector. We take these discussions having discussed | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
them with care in Wales. But there is still a shortfall of 92 million. | :08:36. | :08:38. | |
This year, that is despite you putting extra money in. You heard | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
from Margaret Morgan, who is worried about the future. The demand is only | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
going to increase. What is the long-term answer? The social | :08:48. | :08:53. | |
services and well-being act, which came into force last April, was | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
predicated on the understanding that demand for social care will grow and | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
public finances will become tighter, so we are taking a preventative | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
approach, seeking to support people more at home and in the community. | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
Many people don't realise that the number of people having residential | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
care at the moment is declining because of the success of being able | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
to support people at home. But you heard there that we are 1 million | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
miles away from where we should be when it comes to respite care, | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
step-down beds and the sort of help for carers as well. Surely you must | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
be concerned and you could do more. We are not where we want to be yet, | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
but we are investing in integration of social care throughout our | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
immediate care fund that fund is worth ?60 million this year and we | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
pledge to keep that going throughout this Assembly, because we know how | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
important a whole system approaches. Health and social care working | :09:51. | :09:52. | |
together to meet the needs of people. So is the example to | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
integrate it completely? There are two ministers in charge, one of the | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
NHS and you for social care. Should it be fully integrated? The health | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
minister and I work very closely on integration, which we are keen to | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
drive forward. The intermediate care fund is already showing good results | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
in terms of demonstrating numbers saved to the NHS, preventing | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
unnecessary hospital admissions. What about the idea that is | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
happening in England of raising council tax, giving councils the | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
right to raise council tax? Is that a possibility long-term? We are not | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
taking that approach in Wales because the Welsh government is | :10:37. | :10:38. | |
directly investing in social care by providing extra money to local | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
councils. Raising council tax isn't necessarily fair. Some parts of | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
Wales have a much larger proportion of older people than others and | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
obviously, if we were to put the burden on local authorities to raise | :10:53. | :10:55. | |
council tax to pay for that, it would disproportionately affect some | :10:56. | :11:01. | |
areas of Wales. No rise in council tax, you are putting the money in | :11:02. | :11:04. | |
but there is already a shortfall. Are you just going to live year by | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
year with a shortfall and just crisis management? We would like to | :11:08. | :11:14. | |
take a longer, more sustainable look at social care but we need the UK | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
Government to help us. They had an enquiry which produced a report and | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
recommendations on the future of social care funding but | :11:24. | :11:25. | |
unfortunately they have said there will be no change until at least | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
2020 in response to that, so that means we can't plan on | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
consequentials and we don't know what long-term funding will be. | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
These are issues beyond our control but, within our control, we are | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
doing everything can to make social care good quality and fair across | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
Wales. Do you stay at wake -- do you stay awake at night worried about | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
social care and the future and the growing challenge? I am under no | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
illusion how fragile the sector is in Wales and the fact that the Welsh | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
government needs to support it, but we are working hand in hand with the | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
Welsh Local Government Association and the third sector to give us a | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
sustainable approach for the future. Everything we can do in order to try | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
and make the system sustainable and good quality, we are doing. | :12:14. | :12:14. | |
Bethan Rhys Roberts talking to Social Services | :12:15. | :12:16. | |
and Public Health Minister Rebecca Evans. | :12:17. | :12:18. | |
Britain's journey towards Brexit has progressed a little further this | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
week, with the Bill which triggers the Brexit process moving | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
to the House of Lords from the House of Commons. | :12:25. | :12:27. | |
Despite Jeremy Corbyn's instruction that Labour MPs should approve | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
the Article 50 process, not all of his Labour | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
47 Labour MPs rejected party orders last week, | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
and they opposed the Government's Bill. | :12:40. | :12:42. | |
One Labour MP who voted against the Bill, and who stood | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
against Mr Corbyn for the party's leadership last year, is the Member | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
I asked him if he was simply out of touch with public opinion. My view | :12:51. | :13:08. | |
is that I was not elected to parliament for my hometown, my | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
community in order to vote for things that will make my community | :13:13. | :13:15. | |
poorer, and I am absolutely convinced that Brexit, if it goes | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
ahead on the rock-hard terms the Tories are now proposing, for | :13:19. | :13:25. | |
ideological reasons within their own party, in Pontypridd and working | :13:26. | :13:27. | |
class communities like mine across Britain, we will get poorer. We said | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
before the referendum that Brexit on these terms will make Britain... I | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
didn't come into politics to do that to the people I grew up with and | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
represent. Have you discussed your position with Jeremy Corbyn and that | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
you are persisting with your line? I haven't spoken to Jeremy Corbyn | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
since September 30 four. Do you feel a sense of obligation to the leader | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
in the sense that he is trying to maintain a party line? Jeremy Corbyn | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
was always a Eurosceptic and didn't fight for us to stay in the EU, and | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
he is now in my view weaving through a Brexit on the worst possible terms | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
for the people we in the Labour Party are meant to fight for and | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
speak for. I am not prepared to do that, so I'm going to continue | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
making my case and continue to speak up for what I believe to be the best | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
interests of the constituents I represent and the country. The first | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
duty of an MP is to speak without fear or favour in the national | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
interest, and then in the interest of his or her constituents, and I | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
feel absolutely confident and comfortable that I am doing that, | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
and I am also confident that as a democrat those people I represent | :14:46. | :14:48. | |
will have an opportunity at the next election to make their judgment as | :14:49. | :14:51. | |
to whether that will be in their interests or not. | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
What do you say to somebody who comes up to you on the streets of | :14:56. | :15:02. | |
Pontypridd and say, we voted to leave, you are not represented as | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
probably? I have had thousands and thousands of e-mails and letters, | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
many from my constituency. They have been overwhelmingly in favour of the | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
position I have taken. I went to the rugby on Saturday to watch | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
Pontypridd versus Carmarthen, and not a single person came up to me to | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
tell me they thought I was making the wrong decision, but a lot of | :15:23. | :15:25. | |
people came to me saying that I proved what I was doing, the stand I | :15:26. | :15:31. | |
was taking, and even if they didn't agree, they want a politician who | :15:32. | :15:37. | |
has the courage of his convictions. When colleagues talk about party | :15:38. | :15:40. | |
discipline and the fact that it appears disunited, what do you say | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
to them? Do you say that has to take second-place? The party clearly is | :15:46. | :15:52. | |
disunited. Some MPs from the whips' offers are doing the telling and | :15:53. | :15:55. | |
voted against the bill just a few days ago, the party is completely | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
divided on this issue. In that respect, it does reflect the | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
country. The country remains divided. But I'm very clear that | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
Brexit on these terms for sure is going to be bad for people in this | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
country, bad for my constituents, and I'm going to keep saying that. | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
Carwyn Jones was very clear, saying that freedom of movement is | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
politically and issue that has to be dealt with, and that people do have | :16:21. | :16:24. | |
legitimate concerns about levels of immigration. Is that a line that you | :16:25. | :16:28. | |
feel comfortable with yourself? Well, I agree with Carwyn that | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
freedom of movement is something that needs to be addressed across | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
the whole of Europe. I said that during the summer, during the | :16:37. | :16:38. | |
election campaign, and took some criticism for it. But I'm confident | :16:39. | :16:51. | |
that other countries in Europe, France and Germany, also want to | :16:52. | :16:54. | |
address it. It is a common problem across Europe. What I'm equally | :16:55. | :16:56. | |
certain of is that if we were to simply pull up the drawbridge in | :16:57. | :16:59. | |
respect of immigration in this country we would actually be doing | :17:00. | :17:01. | |
ourselves damage in terms of our economic future. And crucially, | :17:02. | :17:03. | |
immigration isn't going to stop once we exit Brexit, once we exit the EU, | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
you know, the reality is that people who are discomfited by immigration, | :17:10. | :17:12. | |
I think it is a mixture of immigration from within the EU and | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
without, there will be no change to immigration from outside the EU. And | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
in reality I suspect that people will be ultimately disappointed, | :17:23. | :17:24. | |
disappointed that they were lied to about the extra money that was meant | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
to come into the NHS, for example the famous ?350 million per week | :17:30. | :17:36. | |
that we're never going to see. And disappointed too there will not be | :17:37. | :17:38. | |
visible, substantive change in terms of immigration. When the First | :17:39. | :17:41. | |
Minister and others within Welsh Labour talk about full and | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
unfettered access to the Single Market, that has been described as | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
completely unrealistic by others, do you think that is a prospect that | :17:49. | :17:51. | |
they should be holding up? I wonder if you think that is deliverable in | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
these circumstances? I absolutely think we should still be aiming to | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
be a member of the Single Market. My view is that, my view is very clear | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
that we will still be better off if we'll within the EU, and we need to | :18:05. | :18:13. | |
hold open that possibility. In case the Government fail to get a thing | :18:14. | :18:16. | |
like a good deal for us on Brexit, rather than falling out of the EU on | :18:17. | :18:18. | |
to a terrible trade organisation terms, we need to retain the | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
possibility of staying in, at least throughout the transitional period. | :18:23. | :18:25. | |
But the crucial thing is of course we now know that the Government or | :18:26. | :18:32. | |
intending to not enter into any further realistic, substantive | :18:33. | :18:35. | |
engagement with the Single Market. Theresa May says we are leaving the | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
Single Market, she says we are also probably leaving the customs union. | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
That is a definition of a rock hard Brexit, the worst kind of Brexit but | :18:45. | :18:47. | |
only the real Eurosceptic head-bangers on the Tory side of the | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
aisle have ever wanted. That's why they are so happy. There is clearly | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
a difference of emphasis between what you are saying and the tactics | :18:57. | :18:59. | |
taken by your colleagues in Cardiff Bay. You asked all basically | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
fighting the campaign to try to the, that is the opposition. Carwyn | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
Jones's view is that there is no question of staying in, it is how we | :19:09. | :19:11. | |
come out, it is not whether we come out, it is how we come up. That | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
difference is therefore alter sees a POI suppose it is. The reality is | :19:17. | :19:24. | |
that the decision will be taken in Westminster, Britain is a member of | :19:25. | :19:26. | |
the EU, not Wales. Of course, colleagues in Cardiff Bay will | :19:27. | :19:29. | |
rightly make their opinions known. I'm disappointed that the Supreme | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
Court didn't rule that there should be more formal consultation with the | :19:34. | :19:36. | |
national assembly, because there ought to be. There will be changes | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
that will have dramatic impacts for Wales. Carwyn Jones ought to have a | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
seat at the table in shaping whatever the future of the country | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
looks like. My contention is that we still don't know where this is going | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
to end. There are many, many unknowns in this long process. This | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
may take two years, like the Tories are telling us, but I suspect it | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
will take a lot longer. During that period, our economy will change, the | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
global security situation may change, the volatile world we live | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
with, Putin at one end and Trump at the other, may change public | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
opinion. It is perfectly conceivable that all of these things may flux | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
and shift over the next few years, and we need to retain the | :20:19. | :20:21. | |
possibility of having continued access to the Single Market, and | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
having continued membership of the European Union. Mr Smith, good of | :20:26. | :20:27. | |
you to come in, thank you very much. The latest facts on male suicide | :20:28. | :20:29. | |
in Wales, according to experts, In Wales, men are nearly | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
four times as likely Male suicide is a particular problem | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
in rural communities, with the latest figures showing that | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
six farmers took their Emma Picton-Jones runs a charity | :20:40. | :20:42. | |
to raise awareness of mental health She set the charity up | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
after her husband Daniel, a farm worker, took his own life | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
in June last year. Daniel and I met just over five | :20:52. | :21:13. | |
years ago. And, you know, we were kind of your average young couple in | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
our 20s. I knew that Daniel had problems with mental health, that | :21:18. | :21:20. | |
was quite apparent from the beginning. He wasn't ever hiding it | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
from me. He was very good at hiding it from other people. Daniel worked | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
on farms. And I think that specific kind of sector is quite an isolated | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
sector. You can be doing 12, 13, 14 hour days on a tractor by yourself | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
at times. I think he found that hard. You are around people who are | :21:41. | :21:43. | |
very masculine. There is a real, like, sense of what you should | :21:44. | :21:45. | |
behave like and how you should be. That night, he said, I think I'm | :21:46. | :21:58. | |
going to go and talk to my Nan. That was really the last time that I saw | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
him. He told us he loved us and gave us a kiss and he went. Looking back | :22:03. | :22:11. | |
now, he was outside. To have ten or 15 minutes before he left. And in | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
hindsight, I mean, I couldn't be too sure but I think he was probably | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
putting things in the car. In order to... I think you probably knew what | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
he was going to do. -- I think he probably knew. The thought never | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
crossed my mind. I thought that the children and myself... I had a phone | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
call at two o'clock. He rang and he said, you know, I love you, he said | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
he was going to go and speak to his mum. I was half asleep and I | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
remember thinking, gosh, it's 2am, why are you going to speak to your | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
mum? Just come home, you know. He said, no, I'm going to go and speak | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
to mum. I love you. That was it, kind of thing. Yeah, so that... He | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
didn't go down to his mum's. Gijon himself. -- Gijon himself. He | :22:58. | :23:11. | |
hung himself on the tree outside his family home. And we actually lived | :23:12. | :23:18. | |
on a caravan there for two years. And the tree was right outside the | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
caravan. I just remember falling to the floor and just screaming. My | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
first thought was, the poor children, that was my first thought. | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
Like, my children, they haven't got a dad any more. And I was just | :23:33. | :23:39. | |
devastated for them. It's just pure devastation. Like nothing I've ever | :23:40. | :23:40. | |
felt before. Sorry... Reading that letter, there was, sort | :23:41. | :23:56. | |
of the part I suppose that resonated the most with me was the part that | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
really drove me forward in supporting other people with mental | :24:00. | :24:02. | |
health problems, where he said that we weren't able to help him, but we | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
could support other people. I wouldn't want anyone to have to read | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
that letter from the person that they love, or read that letter | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
directed to their children. I'm dreading that day that my children | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
are asked to read that letter. I really, you know, I feel like if I | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
could stop somebody else from having to read that letter and having to | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
get their children to read or have their children read that letter, | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
then that would mean, you know, it would mean everything to me. Our | :24:31. | :24:37. | |
thanks to Emma for sharing that very painful experience. | :24:38. | :24:39. | |
I'm joined now by actor and writer Boyd Clack, who has spoken | :24:40. | :24:41. | |
about his own personal experiences of mental health issues. | :24:42. | :24:44. | |
And Richard Bundy, from Welsh mental health charity GOFAL. | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
Good of you both to come in. Richard, for you, what are the main | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
issues that arise from Emma's storage? The huge issues that came | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
up for me with the issue of isolation. I think the peer pressure | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
that men face in the terms of the way they are perceived and expected | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
to deal with problems. I think, inevitably, it draws thinking around | :25:07. | :25:14. | |
stigma and the way people may feel judged, that may present a barrier | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
for people seeking help. I think that talking about mental health | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
problems has become much easier for people. Of course, it's still there. | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
The problem is of course, the thing is, when you are suffering from | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
mental health problems, you have a great feeling of isolation and fear. | :25:33. | :25:39. | |
Isolation, fear, and profound unhappiness. Now, these things are | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
the things that stop people communicating. What kind of | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
framework of help is there at the moment in Welsh terms? And have you | :25:49. | :25:51. | |
seen a noticeable increase in the kind of take-up of people asking for | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
help? Yes, well certainly with the introduction of the Welsh mental | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
health measure in 2010, our primary objective there was to improve | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
people's access to mental health services. And certainly the | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
introduction of primary mental health care teams, working alongside | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
GPs, has opened up a huge level of demand that wasn't being satisfied | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
before. In terms of policy and strategy, I suppose Wales has been | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
ahead of the game in some respects. I gather from the mental health | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
strategy, the measure introduced in 2010, and I think within the context | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
of suicide, there is a suicide and self harm prevention strategy which | :26:34. | :26:39. | |
was introduced in 2015. That is due to be reviewed by Public Health | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
Wales at the midpoint. Are we in a better position, then, to be able to | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
explain why the numbers are rising, and in Welsh terms, because the | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
problem seems to be more acute, what are the factors in that rise which | :26:53. | :26:55. | |
we can identify with some confidence? I think one of the | :26:56. | :27:05. | |
factors with male suicide is that we have a deep-rooted tradition in | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
Wales of masculinity. A sort of active masculinity. It comes from | :27:11. | :27:13. | |
the mining days, where the miners were tough men who work together. | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
They had friendships, they earned money, good money. It was a horrible | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
job but they aren't good money. They could look after their families, go | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
and have a point, go to church. They had an enormous sense of community | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
and friendship. I think with the post-industrial times in Wales, this | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
infrastructure has broken down. And now what we have is sort of a | :27:37. | :27:43. | |
desolation. The churches, abandoned churches at the valleys, the pubs | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
are boarded up. They had tombstones that had a very strong... Affect on | :27:48. | :27:56. | |
the Welsh psyche. And that being taken away, a lot of people feel | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
lost. And you combine that with the largest think contributing towards | :28:03. | :28:09. | |
mental illness and suicide in the valleys, alcohol. We Welsh I think | :28:10. | :28:12. | |
are part of our national characteristics as a people have a | :28:13. | :28:18. | |
sort of morbid introspection. I think that has remained with us. As | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
the landscape has changed, the landscape has come to reflect that | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
mental state more. Alcohol has been mentioned. A morbid introspection | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
has been mentioned, which is acutely may to some areas, those valid | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
reasons -- which is peculiar may be to some Welsh areas. I think alcohol | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
use is a significant factor in suicide. That is a well acknowledged | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
point. Social cohesion is a real issue. And I think the statistics | :28:48. | :28:54. | |
are borne out in terms of, you know, there are higher incidence of | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
suicide and mental ill health in Wales's most deprived areas, in the | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
same weight that there are higher incidences of suicide in their home | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
was communities. There are real things. Thank you both for coming | :29:07. | :29:07. | |
in. If you'd like to get in touch | :29:08. | :29:09. | |
with us about what's been discussed tonight, | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
or anything else, email us Or follow us on social media, | :29:14. | :29:15. | |
where the discussion continues. All of them? All of them. | :29:16. | :29:18. | |
Drafted by all of them. He went on to play for the | :29:19. | :29:56. | |
Buffalo Bills in the Super Bowl and the Cleveland Indians in | :29:57. | :29:59. | |
the World Series. | :30:00. | :30:03. |