14/06/2017 The Wales Report


14/06/2017

Join Huw Edwards in Westminster for this week's The Wales Report for all the latest fall-out from last week's election and what it means for Wales.


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Tonight on The Wales Report, we are at Westminster in a turbulent week

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politics, just six weeks after the election that produced a hung

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parliament. Trees May and the Conservatives are telling power,

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just, but what does the outcome mean for the biggest issue facing us all,

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the Brexit process and its impact on jobs and the economy in Wales? Stay

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weathers for The Wales Report. -- stay with ours. Good evening. And

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welcome to Westminster for this edition of The Wales Report. Forget

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all that talk of strong and stable, this week we are considering the

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aftermath of the hung parliament and uncertainty that it brings. A

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minority Conservative Government probably sustained by the Democratic

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Unionists with the all poor to Brexit pox due to start next week.

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Tonight we will be considering the challenges for Wales, is public

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services and other matters as they are defined here in Cardiff Bay. You

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can get involved and social media. In a moment, I will be talking to

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the former Conservative Secretary of State, Stephen Crabb. But first my

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college reminds us how we got to this rather unexpected point.

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Just before ten o'clock, I was handed the exit poll, and to be

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honest null others where quite expecting this. There we are,

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Conservatives the largest party, that is the poll, and we have the

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detail. What followed as the results came in was ten hours of high

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political drama. But the impact of that night the last far longer. So

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what happens next? Six long days on, is it all up for grabs again? And

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the policies, manifesto commitments and above all Brexit and away we the

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European Union. I think in many respects some of the discussion

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around, not icy soft and hard Brexit, but a different model of

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leaving the EU whilst retaining a foothold in the single market would

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likely be on the agenda now, and we know that something that Carwyn

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Jones has articulated clearly in the white paper and has argued for in

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terms of the best interest of Wales. The downside is we know the balance

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of power lies more firmly with Northern Ireland, particularly

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through the DUPed involvement in Government and still with the SNP in

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Scotland, because despite having lost seats they remain a big group

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of MPs with a very strong voice in Westminster. Both Labour and Plaid

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Cymru of any say that the relationship between Wales and

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Westminster has the change. Last year but we didn't know was what

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kind of Brexit we wanted. What is quite clear now after this election

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is that people do not want the kind of hard Brexit that Theresa May was

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suggesting before last Thursday. Theresa make all the election for a

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strengthened hand in Brexit. She has come out of the process with a

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weakened hand from her perspective. But it does mean now that Wales has

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an opportunity to make sure that our voice is heard and on the agenda, so

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Plaid Cymru wants to see a four nation 's cross-party approach to

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Brexit negotiations and we would like to see a delay in the beginning

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of these negotiations so that all parties can have an input. Sony

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pick-up is my daughter is at the helm, but strong and stable is

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unlikely to be one of Theresa make parred races after that campaign.

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But her critics accusing her of trying to form her very own

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coalition of chaos. The Conservatives in Wales are calling

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for change. When we look at the results, we can be proud of what we

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achieved in the overall share of the vote. But sadly no prizes for coming

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second in the selection and we lost three excellent parliamentarians and

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our candidates in our targets is well unfortunately not winning.

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Despite getting swings of 12%. I personally believe in the second

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decade of the 21st century we need a more distinct Welsh brand that can

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promote Web principles and values while using the strength of the

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United Kingdom as a springboard into elections and well. One thing we

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have learned of the past year is never perfect, expect the

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unexpected. But it is there to protect one thing. With a minority

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Government, Brexit, potential leadership challenges and unforeseen

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events, this Government is in for a bumpy ride.

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I am joined now by the former city of state for Wales am a former

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Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, Stephen Crabb. By find

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joining us. What went wrong with Conservative campaign? With the

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benefit of hindsight, there was a lot wrong with the campaign. Some of

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those things I personally highlighted during it with the party

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chairman. But other things as well, like the impact of the social media

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campaign which was really something we were not prepared for as a party,

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the impact it had with younger voters, clearly with the benefit of

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eyesight we need to do some analysis and understand how that is changing

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politics and. Does Andrew Hartley Davies have a point that the

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Conservative Party in Wales does not have the kind of specific clearly

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defined Welsh identity that it needs? I disagree with Andrew on

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that. Two years ago we had an election when the best result in

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Wales for Welsh Conservatives since 1983. We had that distinct Welsh

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voice and fought a very unified campaign between Wales and the UK,

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and we did very well as a result. We don't need to pick over everything

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that went wrong, but they were problems with the Bell's campaign,

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the slight disagreement at times with the Secretary of State and the

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leader of the worst Conservatives in the Assembly, that did not help.

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Overall the fact is it worked against as in Wales as the and the

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UK. We do not see the Labour surge coming. We did it we chat with

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attractive policies for younger working families, particularly

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working families who have not seen a real wage increase for maybe eight

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or nine years. That is where we need to look at, not the issues of

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cultural identity. Having Barwell lost his seat, he is not Theresa

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Mayed chief of staff. He said on Thursday night before he was

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appointed to this new post. Teachers are coming up and saying that we're

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not realising the position we been, public services, you are not given

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any kind of message that I want to hear. Was that you're experiencing

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any part of Wales. Two days before polling day on the Tuesday, in

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Milford Haven, a woman I spoke to Ronnie Dawson who was a nurse told

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the she liked me and did a great job, and she said she could not vote

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for me, and I said why not, she said because she cut to the nursing

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bursaries. We really did you how a more closely to the needs of the

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public sector in Wales and across the UK and clearly the seven years

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of wage restraint has kept a limit on wage growth for people in the

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public sector, we need to be looking at that. It is about time people

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across different sectors had a wage increase. Based on her track record,

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do you think the Prime Minister is the right person to listen? Can she

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listen? But she sure that she is able? One of my frustrated during

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the campaign was that I didn't feel the country was seeing the full true

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Theresa May. All the reasons why in the party flopped around her as the

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new leader, one country responded excitedly well to her when she

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became Prime Minister a year ago, we lost some of that flavoured chewing

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the election campaign. I wonder that the campaign buttons are up and we

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didn't get to see that range of qualities and skills which I think

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mean that she is the very best person to lead the Government, take

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us forward and for all of the challenges ahead with not having an

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overall majority, I still think that she had got every possible chance of

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taking us the full distance, but it will be bumpy. Not least if she does

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from a deal with the DUP, we have had people like John Major who is

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very experienced in Northern Ireland saying he has great concerns about

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this. Do you share those concerns with Mac there are real concerns. We

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are in a difficult period with Northern Irish politics. On top of

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that, in the challenge with Brexit and the Irish question, so clearly

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there are concerns that need to get Ed, but equally there are

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politicians like Lord Trimble who is at the very heart of the peace

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process who has said that a deal with the DUP is not necessarily a

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negative barrier to further progress in not an island. We should not get

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too hung up. If Labour Party had fallen short of being the overall

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majority, they would be talking up to the DUP. They have done in the

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past. Previously believers have restarted Ulster Unionist. That is

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what you do when you're out in a hung parliament situation. Britain

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needs a Government. I don't think there is any appetite for an

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election straightaway. What is the upturn of? You get on with the

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business of Government. The request of the peace process in Northern

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Ireland, John Major referred to it. The other question is the attitude

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of the DUP on some social issues in terms of women's rights, very

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serious issues which people have what many years to achieve. I do

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come trouble with that relationship? And comfortably the kind of values

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that the DUP who -- DUP espouses? If there is any question on the social

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issues on the table for discussion, as part of any governing

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arrangement, myself and a great many others would be saying no, close

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this off, this is not healthy for the national interest. We don't want

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to be doing that. But they have got their different values, we need to

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respect that, there is a different political culture in Northern

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Ireland. The Labour Party in Northern Ireland held an identical

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view on abortion and the DUP, so we have got to respect the fact that

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Northern Ireland is a bit different. But you say that would affect

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Theresa May's thinking? We're not putting that up for discussion. We

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are strengthening equalities legislation. If there is any with

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that that will be revisited as part of the rate of the DUP, myself and a

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lot of others would be saying, Theresa, commerce. That is a very

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clear message. This talk about the other big issue that overshadowed

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everything, Brexit. Talks due to start the week. Very clear noises

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coming from the Treasury that the Chancellor would like to see a

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refocusing on the economy, jobs, a different kind of Brexit outcome to

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that was envisaged by many of your colleagues before. Can you give is

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your sense of where that pose beginning and should people be

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reassured by the fact that there are people speaking out about

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cross-party consensus? Be different place? We are in a different place,

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and that is partly because of the result of the election. The

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Conservative Party on its own is not the vehicle to deliver Brexit. We

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need to reach out and work with other parties. When it comes to

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Brexit, not just relying on DUP. I personally believe and leave others

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believe that we need to be reaching out across the divide in the chamber

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to the official opposition and trying to forge as much consensus as

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possible. What I would like to see as you've heard it from William

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Hague and others that that consensus can come together around a vision of

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Brexit that puts jobs and economic security at its heart. Rather than

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discussions for example about the need to have the hardest possible

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line on immigration control, for example. How would that consensus be

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achieved in a special commission, a special committee? How do you arrive

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at that consensus? There are different options. William Hague has

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put up forward one idea of having a commission that brings in business

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leaders, trade unions. I think that is worth looking at. I don't like

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the word commission, but clearly the essence of that must be right. There

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must be a way that we can forge more national unity around Brexit. You

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are very clear about that direction. And I just picked you up on the

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freedom of movement, immigration question? Lots of your colleagues at

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had been very clear and said the top priority is still to control freedom

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of movement, edit, immigration is the top concern for them. It isn't

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for you? I speak very personally. I not somebody who lies awake at night

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worrying about the overall levels of immigration into this country. If

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you look at the population of Britain, it is changing and we need

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more workers coming in, not just skills but right across every

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business sector. I do recognise that freedom of movement in its current

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form, where Britain effectively has no ability to run its own

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immigration policy, that will need to change. But what I would be

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saying to colleagues in Government as let's not get hung up on the

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purity of that issue. If it means we're going to sacrifice our

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business competitiveness and create more jobs and our economy. That is

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the most important thing for me. Wales needs more jobs and we need to

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become a more prosperous nation. Let's not do things that and

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economic terms. A final indication on the shape of

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the deal. Quite a view of your colleagues are saying, this notion

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of being part of the customs union, if there is more flexibility of our

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freedom of movement, might offer a compromise which most people could

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come around and could agree about. Does that make sense to you? Is that

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the kind of every other could attract majority support? That is

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the kind of arrangement that could be looked at. It could be an interim

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arrangement. Perhaps a longer interim arrangement. Very long. It

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could be amended in your sticker. That seems to be a pragmatic resting

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place for the moment. That's not leaving the EU properly, some would

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say. In legal terms, it is leaving the EU. It provides us with a

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sensible kind of staging post on the road to Brexit. Remember the

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discussions around devolution in the last 20 years. People say it's a

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process, not an event. We need to think about Brexit in the same

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terms. Good to talk to you. Thank you very much. By common consent,

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the campaign fought by Labour took the Conservatives by surprise if

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it's short messaging and ability to give voters. The campaign was led by

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the First Minister Carwyn Jones for Labour. The fact we had a good

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manifesto, good Welsh Labour manifesto. We listen to people and

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campaigned hard. Jeremy Corbyn worked hard. Tremendous energy. He

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listened to people and spoke to people. Thirdly, Theresa May's

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failure. She booked the campaign from personality and that failed.

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Where next for Welsh Labour? Labour across the UK, also. Joining me is

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the former Secretary of State for Wales and former secretary of state

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for Ireland. Did you get a Jeremy Corbyn wrong? Did you underestimate

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him? Yes, I didn't think the results

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would be anything like as good as it was. Who didn't get the -- you

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didn't get this impression from the doorstep. Labour voters saying they

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would not vote for him. All the Crosswell. -- all Crosswell 's men.

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You have to hand it. He kept going and had a clarity of message that

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gave hope to people, not just young people, that's been evident. People

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voting where they've never voted before. Also, we won the 30-44 year

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age group are massively. What was that don't do? Friends worried about

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their children. Not just massive shouldn't get. -- pervert is

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worried. Lack of decent opportunities, lack of decent

:17:10.:17:15.

housing and job opportunities. -- parents are worried. There was no

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sense of hope and change. These apologies they have been -- these

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policies they have been presumed to work. Lots of your colleagues said

:17:29.:17:31.

that this campaign has nothing to do with Jeremy Corbyn and all to do

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with Carwyn Jones and Welsh Labour. The result is down to Jeremy carbon

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-- scratch bag or Carwyn Jones. The Welsh Labour brand that Karen Jones

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and his colleagues have cemented in Wales, not too bad, not good but not

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as bad as might been expected, there is a distinct Welsh Labour brand

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that is different from Scottish Labour. That is a credit to Carwyn.

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There was a Jeremy Corbyn effect. That's mobilised the groups and at

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you enthusiasm. The question is that the Tories did pretty well and well.

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They lost seats to us but their share of the vote was very high. In

:18:25.:18:29.

Neath, 9004. That's enormous, historically. -- 9000 bouts. We

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can't be complacent about the next stage. Winning the centre ground,

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especially in England. We held up in the sure seats under Tony Blair. We

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have to be able to Windows back. -- we held Pembrokeshire seats. Lots of

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critical things have been said by Labour people, not least in Welsh

:18:57.:19:02.

Labour, Abbott Jeremy Corbyn. Can we believe now that people say they are

:19:03.:19:10.

behind him. Should people take this at face value? Jeremy has confounded

:19:11.:19:16.

everybody. Including, I suspect, himself. I don't think they expected

:19:17.:19:23.

this result. I know they didn't. Many of his advisers. He did

:19:24.:19:27.

confound everybody, including myself. You have to hand it to him

:19:28.:19:33.

on that and well behind you. I hope there will be a mode of two-way

:19:34.:19:39.

coming together in the body. He and his colleagues around eyes, John

:19:40.:19:46.

McDonnell, will openly embrace those that have been critical. Those who

:19:47.:19:50.

have been critical have not done it for nothing, they had fundamental

:19:51.:19:53.

concerns about what they heard on the doorstep from Labour photos.

:19:54.:19:59.

They are on the opposition hung bench. There are no talks with the

:20:00.:20:07.

DUP. This is a part of the world you know very well. -- there are talks

:20:08.:20:13.

with the GP. You have the same concerns as John Major? He's

:20:14.:20:17.

absolutely right. The interview he gave to the BBC was masterly. He put

:20:18.:20:22.

his finger on all the key points. If you want to be an honest broker,

:20:23.:20:28.

I've been that honest broker, I had to perform a bond of trust with Ian

:20:29.:20:36.

Paisley and Gerry Adams. They never talked each other. They have to

:20:37.:20:40.

trust me that what the other promises in exchange with the other

:20:41.:20:46.

promises, that was true. They had to trust me. If you are dependent for

:20:47.:20:51.

your life as the Prime Minister,, which Theresa May will be if she

:20:52.:20:56.

does this deal, Andrew Secretary of State, how will they feel, the other

:20:57.:21:02.

parties, not just Sinn Fein but the other parties have expressed the

:21:03.:21:08.

same criticism, but at stake is something much more reporting than

:21:09.:21:11.

the survival of a Conservative Government. It is peace in Northern

:21:12.:21:15.

Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement. It's an incredible thing

:21:16.:21:20.

to say. To say that ineffective Theresa May pursues this strategy

:21:21.:21:30.

the prospect of restoring peace -- maintaining peace, the prospect

:21:31.:21:33.

close to zero. Sinn Fein may take the view that if this deal is done,

:21:34.:21:38.

better for them to get into Stormont, even on a lower threshold,

:21:39.:21:44.

and avoid directive. Direct rule, the kind I had dented when I stepped

:21:45.:21:54.

down having negotiated the deal with McGuinness and Paisley coming into

:21:55.:22:03.

power, with the DUP: the shots and keeping the Conservative Government

:22:04.:22:07.

afloat is not an attractive Government. I'm not saying it will

:22:08.:22:13.

sabotage Stormont but it makes the whole process immeasurably

:22:14.:22:16.

difficult. There is one other elephant in the. The border. One

:22:17.:22:25.

positive thing is it will encourage a soft water. That's what DUP one.

:22:26.:22:31.

That would mean Theresa May will be pushed even further to do a

:22:32.:22:34.

cross-party agreement and have a soft departure from the European

:22:35.:22:39.

Union rather than a hard departure and follow current Joneses -- Carwyn

:22:40.:22:46.

Jones's leads in staying in the single market. What is the prospect

:22:47.:22:54.

of a Government made up of the Conservative and the GP lasting?

:22:55.:23:01.

What is your sense of this stability that is likely facing the challenges

:23:02.:23:05.

Brexit? The pressure on the Government is going to be immense.

:23:06.:23:11.

Can it last? You need to win a two thirds majority to call an election,

:23:12.:23:16.

and this Theresa May or her successor decides they want to go

:23:17.:23:20.

for Wand. -- unless Theresa May. On balance, although we are in

:23:21.:23:28.

uncharted retreat, I've never encountered it before, on balance,

:23:29.:23:32.

they will stick at. -- in unchartered territory. We don't have

:23:33.:23:39.

a majority, even with the other parties. That's what we need under

:23:40.:23:44.

the fixed to Parliament legislation to get an election. It's going to be

:23:45.:23:48.

very volatile. The Government will find it difficult to get legislation

:23:49.:23:52.

through both houses. Including Brexit legislation. Including Brexit

:23:53.:23:58.

legislation. Unless they are conciliatory. A lot of their

:23:59.:24:03.

policies, elderly care policy, which is definitely -- desperately we --

:24:04.:24:12.

needed. These things are reported. I don't think they will happen. It

:24:13.:24:18.

will be difficult and unstable. I don't know what the effect is on the

:24:19.:24:23.

economy. Could be negative. One area of assessors is the powerful role of

:24:24.:24:31.

social media. One of the factors that is attributed to Labour's wins

:24:32.:24:43.

is social media. Social media expert Herman Reynolds has taken a look at

:24:44.:24:47.

the role that on the networking has played in shaping the result of this

:24:48.:24:53.

election. -- Helen Reynolds. We've been talking since at least

:24:54.:24:58.

2010 about the social media election. When young people start to

:24:59.:25:02.

use on their networks to make their voices heard and change a visit. It

:25:03.:25:08.

doesn't happen in 2010 or even 2015 but last week it started to happen

:25:09.:25:13.

big-time. Young people actively campaigns online and turned out to

:25:14.:25:17.

vote in huge numbers. They produced a result nobody expected. So why now

:25:18.:25:23.

and what is it mean? Firstly, citizens and especially young people

:25:24.:25:28.

have learned to use social media to unite and campaign. In the past,

:25:29.:25:33.

people used social media to talk to friends and consume news in a

:25:34.:25:37.

passive kind of way. Second, if social media was the winner in this

:25:38.:25:42.

election, newspapers were the losers. They have fewer readers and

:25:43.:25:47.

less relevance to younger voters. In the past, newspapers could define

:25:48.:25:52.

the issues people talk about and select preferences. Now, it seems

:25:53.:25:56.

they are losing their grip on the electorate and social media is

:25:57.:26:01.

filling the void. Thirdly, you can do things with social media you

:26:02.:26:06.

can't do with traditional media. You can be direct, funny, and motion.

:26:07.:26:13.

That's more of emotional content gets full out in traditional media.

:26:14.:26:17.

While leaving the Conservative campaign on it back foot, why did

:26:18.:26:27.

the Labour campaign use it? Most of the campaigns and social media by

:26:28.:26:34.

the Conservative Party was about to mobilising Labour politicians rather

:26:35.:26:38.

than mobilising support. By contrast, Labour tried to get people

:26:39.:26:47.

and involved and getting people to vote. Jeremy Corbyn was everywhere.

:26:48.:26:52.

He was chatting to the rapper JME. He was supported by modern

:26:53.:26:56.

celebrities online. By contrast, Theresa May did a additional media

:26:57.:27:03.

broadcaster media session. She looked particularly uncomfortable

:27:04.:27:13.

when Jeremy Corbyn crashed it. It was often inspiring and sometimes it

:27:14.:27:17.

was moving, the content that was shed. When people have an emotional

:27:18.:27:22.

response to the guide material, they are more likely to share that. -- to

:27:23.:27:30.

the material. It is more a organic when you see something that has been

:27:31.:27:34.

shared by a friend. Whichever way you should I whichever way you slice

:27:35.:27:40.

it, the social media genie is out of the bottle. Politicians are going to

:27:41.:27:46.

have to start taking this more seriously. I am joined by the

:27:47.:27:52.

Guardian social media editor. Also associate editor of the mirror. Was

:27:53.:27:59.

it really a sharp edge for Labour in this campaign? The difference

:28:00.:28:02.

between Labour and the Conservatives is that Labour managed to capture

:28:03.:28:07.

the years in the way that the Conservatives did not. There was an

:28:08.:28:10.

amazing to read that pointed out the Conservatives spent all the money on

:28:11.:28:16.

Facebook advertising but Labour were getting memes made for them for

:28:17.:28:23.

free. All the smart, young exciting teams and older young adults were

:28:24.:28:27.

making all this stuff for free for Labour. Maybe people want to say

:28:28.:28:34.

that this was brilliant strategic thinking by Labour, this is perhaps

:28:35.:28:38.

wrong, perhaps they were just benefiting from stuff made for them

:28:39.:28:44.

for free. Labour also cottoned on to it very quickly and encouraged it in

:28:45.:28:48.

a way that I think the Conservatives would struggle to because I think

:28:49.:28:53.

the Conservatives are seen as and older part. Labour this time did it

:28:54.:29:00.

as a strategy. They knew two things would possibly go and a favour. One

:29:01.:29:06.

is the broadcasters coming in, equal representation, et al. People could

:29:07.:29:10.

see Jeremy Corbyn uncut rather than seeing him in the odd news item. It

:29:11.:29:19.

was part of their deliberate strategy from the beginning. Whilst

:29:20.:29:22.

the Conservatives were seen to be dad dancing. Labour used to people

:29:23.:29:30.

who are on it all the time. There was nothing forced about it. It came

:29:31.:29:31.

across that way. An old-fashioned terracing, you

:29:32.:29:41.

knock the door and you don't know if the person is very different for

:29:42.:29:45.

you. There is an effort to convert. Does social media activity convert

:29:46.:29:48.

doesn't just cemented loyalties that already exist? And the Conservatives

:29:49.:29:53.

tried to do it negatively to scare people off and Jeremy Corbyn,

:29:54.:29:56.

painting him as a terrorist sympathiser when he was not a

:29:57.:30:01.

pacifist, it went both ways. Labour was far more positive, and it was to

:30:02.:30:04.

try and enthuse and get people to go out and vote, and vote, added

:30:05.:30:07.

illegally targeted young people, who in the past had not voted, Jeremy

:30:08.:30:12.

Corbyn said from the beginning there were going to get them developed. I

:30:13.:30:17.

didn't believe him but he achieved it. He spoke to them on their level,

:30:18.:30:22.

that is a big part of it. There is a condition with politicians to not

:30:23.:30:24.

take young people seriously because they do not vote. This time Jeremy

:30:25.:30:30.

Corbyn was like, no, I going to listen to them. He did that to

:30:31.:30:34.

things like, I thought the unilateral big issue collaboration

:30:35.:30:41.

was spectacular, they had the Big Issue which is a very well-respected

:30:42.:30:45.

magazine across the country, and Facebook page which is not as

:30:46.:30:49.

respected, but has a huge UK following. That was genius, in my

:30:50.:30:54.

mind. We had the best of both worlds. Was there an unfair

:30:55.:30:59.

reference to the Theresa May experience with Robert testing? That

:31:00.:31:03.

was an attempt on a very big platform, she was taking questions

:31:04.:31:07.

which were coming through from people live, that was part of the

:31:08.:31:15.

social media strategy, and that was not a attack. It was slightly unfair

:31:16.:31:20.

and we don't want to be in an avalanche position where we have one

:31:21.:31:24.

form of campaign and then all campaigning changes. You are on

:31:25.:31:27.

Facebook, people will watch it, and it was a very big viewing figures

:31:28.:31:31.

for that. But nevertheless if you can get celebrities involved, that

:31:32.:31:35.

helps. If you can get grime artists and so one, you will go to another

:31:36.:31:40.

area. That was incredible, the whole grime for Corbyn thing, it was a

:31:41.:31:45.

kind of movement that is such a joy to see in politics and especially

:31:46.:31:50.

from young people. The press reference, we saw an incredible

:31:51.:31:55.

aggressive campaign from the Mail and the Son against Jeremy Corbyn.

:31:56.:31:59.

When you look at the results, is it therefore too soon for us to save

:32:00.:32:04.

big conclusions about whether the press in some forms has had its day

:32:05.:32:08.

in terms of swinging millions of votes? I don't think so but it was a

:32:09.:32:12.

huge defeat for the tabloids who threw the kitchen sink to Jeremy

:32:13.:32:18.

Corbyn, smear after smear, Theresa May was praised as the great leader.

:32:19.:32:22.

They did not get a result they expected. Newspapers are still very

:32:23.:32:28.

powerful, broadcasting is still very powerful, but people now can go for

:32:29.:32:31.

the information they want, where they want, there are far more

:32:32.:32:35.

voices, and I think that is a good thing in a democracy. Even the fact

:32:36.:32:39.

that candidates and MPs themselves can have a website, beyond Facebook

:32:40.:32:44.

and Twitter, you make it directly, rather than have to go through the

:32:45.:32:48.

prism of a distorting paper or TV, radio, and would not write the media

:32:49.:32:53.

off, but we in papers except now that people get their information

:32:54.:32:57.

elsewhere. The crippled thing in Wales is when you think of the fact

:32:58.:33:01.

that people have had far less of a choice in terms of the Welsh folk is

:33:02.:33:05.

the media and they can use, the social media prevention as a

:33:06.:33:09.

completely new dimension. This is what I am hoping will come out of

:33:10.:33:16.

this new media age, they will be more stuff for Welsh people online

:33:17.:33:20.

at least. We have not got as vibrant a scene Scotland at the moment, but

:33:21.:33:26.

there is fertile ground and this has been proven and Wales is

:33:27.:33:30.

traditionally, a labour heartland, there is no reason why this kind of

:33:31.:33:36.

energy fork Jeremy Corbyn could not translate into some kind of energy

:33:37.:33:38.

for Welsh media. That might be a bridge too far, I don't know. You

:33:39.:33:43.

make a point about Welsh Labour, in some of its traditional heartlands

:33:44.:33:46.

in Wales, but all Welsh parties really could be looking at this kind

:33:47.:33:53.

of provision in a completely new way. The final point to you both,

:33:54.:33:57.

will it change the nature of campaigning? Laissez beget another

:33:58.:34:00.

election within the next year, if that happens, I'll be likely to see

:34:01.:34:05.

another step change in the way people use social media in

:34:06.:34:09.

campaigning turns? I think we will. The other parties will look where it

:34:10.:34:12.

worked for Labour, where it worked for Donald Trump in the states,

:34:13.:34:17.

almost worked for the SNP in Scotland in 2014 in that referendum.

:34:18.:34:22.

It won't mean that you don't have to go knocking on doors and put

:34:23.:34:26.

leaflets out, you must only meetings and be on TV and radio and get stuck

:34:27.:34:34.

in papers, but social media, the opportunities are absolutely

:34:35.:34:38.

endless. Final thought. I think it will change, but be interesting to

:34:39.:34:42.

see if it will go well for the Conservatives in the future may be

:34:43.:34:45.

for any other party that is traditionally seen as a little bit

:34:46.:34:48.

older. That is the thing that I think is key, a stepping Labour has

:34:49.:34:52.

that young bass and they have that advantage, the Disney to use it.

:34:53.:34:57.

Thank you both very much. That is all we have time for tonight. You

:34:58.:35:02.

can get in touch with ours to discuss anything we have discussed,

:35:03.:35:07.

go to our website. You can also follow us on social media where the

:35:08.:35:10.

discussion continues. We will be back next week. Thank you for

:35:11.:35:16.

watching. Have a very good bike. -- good night.

:35:17.:35:25.

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