21/06/2017 The Wales Report

Tonight on The Wales Report - we're at Westminster where today the Queen

delivered her speech outlining the Government's plans

Forget strong and stable, the new buzzwords are smooth and orderly.

So what's in it and what does it mean for Wales?

Good evening - and welcome to The Wales Report in Westminster.

The Queen has been coming here to deliver the annual programme

for government for the best part of 70 years, but it was all a bit

different this time - a car rather than a carriage,

no horses and day dress rather than robes.

The content too was different laying out plans for the next two years

rather than just the coming year, so that the government can

It wasn't quite the speech the government was hoping to deliver

governments without a majority have to compromise.

So what's in it and how will it affect us in Wales?

You can join in the discussion tonight online - the hashtag

In a moment we'll hear from the Secretary of State

for Wales but first let's take a closer look at today's events.

I've spent the afternoon outside Parliament gathering opinions after

speech. These are the strangest of times.

One of the hottest June on record, a very unusual Queen's speech and the

government still seeking a deal to govern. And hanging over everything,

Brexit. My government's priority is to secure the best possible deal as

the country leaves the European Union. My ministers are committed to

working with Parliament, the devolved administrations, business

and others, to build the widest possible consensus on the country's

future outside the European Union. But if negotiations with Brussels

will be tough, then for Theresa May, keeping her own party on board could

be even more challenging. As a former party insider knows all too

well. We have seen a fundamental change in tone, a year of telling

everyone that this people had spoken, now we talk about consensus,

uniting the United Kingdom, we see people who are pro-Remainers, in

pole position in cabinet and receive parliamentary arithmetic that is

incredibly tight. I think we are revisiting this issue in a very

interesting and big way. The Conservative Party was the most

successful election winning machine in the world for much of the 20th

century and it ruined that when it got ideological. It did that over

Europe for the first time. People believe the purity of your stance

over Europe is more important than being in power. Deals will have to

be struck abroad and at home but in all that deal-making, how strong

will Wales' voice be? The Wales voice will depend on the skill and

determination of those making their voices heard. That is your party? It

is. It will be my party. Will she listen? I hope so, she has always

listen to me so far. I think she is in listening mode. As the talking

continues between Downing Street and the Democratic Unionists, does this

hung Parliament offer new opportunities for Wales? It is now

or never in terms of getting things from Theresa May. The Treasury knows

if she gives something to Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland will

also want something and I've no doubt the England regions, which is

one of the reasons they are saying, we can't give all of our cash to

that country because the other countries will want it as well.

Theresa May is desperate for those votes so she will probably have to

take the risk. So just how difficult will it be for the government to get

any of its legislation through this place? What is the forecast for

Theresa May and have plans to govern? Survival of the government

is a big challenge. Survival for the reason May-ism one also. There is

also Brexit. An historic, nation changing challenge. The government

has to get through two years Parliament with Brexit on the

agenda. That's just the beginning of the battle. Britain has two fight at

the table, on the other side, European negotiators know that

Britain's position is much weaker since the election. Anybody here

will tell you political forecasting is a very dangerous game. These

days, it is probably safer to quote weather forecasters, who are

predicting huge thunderstorms in Westminster and throughout the UK.

Maybe they are right. Earlier, I spoke to the Secretary of

State for Wales, Alun Cairns and I predicting that it wouldn't be easy

to get any of of this legislation through Parliament. 27 bills were

laid out today, 24 relate wholly or in part in relation to Wales. I

think with this job of work to do, we forgot to leave the European

Union, lots of technical bills. -- we have got to leave the European

Union. All of these are really positive bills that will give the

right outcome in order to make the best of leaving. We will come on the

Brexit but on the logistics of getting this through Parliament, and

prospects for your government, you haven't got a deal with the DUP yet.

Let's see what comes out of that. Take Brexit for example,

specifically. Looking at the Labour Party manifesto and the Conservative

Party manifesto, they both talk about leaving the single market so

therefore, on that basis, we will work on the basis of what we believe

is the right thing to do for the UK and Welsh economy and that is part

of our speech today. Before Brexit, though, let's look at a potential

deal with the DUP. Many people are seeing opportunities for Wales

because a a government gives something to the DUP and Northern

Ireland, you dare not give something to Wales, Scotland and the English

regions? Let's see what the deal is to begin with. In principle, though?

Andrew Davies in Cardiff is saying, we can give to the DUP and not get

something for Wales. Surely you would want that? I am always

fighting for Wales as you would expect. Look at my record, you will

remember for many decades, the Labour Party complained about a fair

funding settlement for Wales. I signed that deal just before

Christmas. They had complained about it for decades despite being in

power. Wales gets ?120 for every ?100 spent in England. We have

introduced the funding flow. Those issues don't exist in Northern

Ireland as they are. A devolution settlement and responsibilities are

very different as well. It is far too easy to try to make a simplistic

comparison when it is more complicated. Are you telling Theresa

May around the cabinet table, it would be unwise, Prime Minister, to

give something to Northern Ireland without the other nations getting

something as well? You could face a backlash. You say no? What takes

place in the cabinet remained private. But look at my record, the

new funding deal is in place but we also have city deals in Cardiff,

Swansea, we have a commitment for a north Wales growth deal, this is

money in addition to the new funding deal I negotiated and also the UK

share prosperity fund was central to our manifesto which commits to

bringing what is currently European money, that level of funding to all

parts of the UK. As the voice of Wales around the cabinet table,

would you be disappointed if Northern Ireland gets something

Wales doesn't? Wales already gets something Northern Ireland doesn't

get, one is this funding. The scale of ?120 compared to ?100. The city

deal also. As well as the north Wales growth deal. Let's look at

Brexit. Eight of the bills are big on Brexit. There is talk about power

is coming back from Brussels and Wales won't lose out. What exactly

are you saying. There currently are powers that exist in the European

Union and those powers will come back to the UK. It is a question of

where they sit. Our instinct is to devolve as much as we can. We also

need to provide certainty to business and we also need UK

frameworks because for example, unless we act, there is nothing to

stop anyone government, Wales or Scotland, hugely subsidising one

particular sector to undermine the sector that might exist elsewhere in

the UK. Therefore, we need to protect against that. The current

rules that exist in the European Union, we need a UK version of that

and of course, in delivering that, we will work closely with the Welsh

government, as I always do. Looking at agriculture, which is devolved,

you would presume everything goes straight to Cardiff, straight to

Edinburgh. The detail of the Queen's speech talks that national policies.

I presume you're talking UK wide here? Agriculture is rightly

devolved and that's where we stand. That operate in a framework the

European Union has set up so we need a framework we agree across all

parts of the UK so it prevents any one administration from hugely

subsidising one sector. Give us an example of what you mean could be

held at a UK level on agriculture. We have talked about replicating the

European powers at a UK level. Then, when we have got agreement for the

structure, we would anticipate devolving as much as we possibly can

out of what we call a holding pattern. This is what we talked

about in the white paper and credit to Mark Dry could, he said provided

it has been replicated, he is happy to work on that. Nothing Wales is

expecting to get back from Brussels will be held, stopgap, in

Westminster? Not until we have got the framework and everything agreed.

The most important thing for me is farmers and industry have certainty

in terms of how the laws work. We need to provide that certainty. The

European Union provides it as it stands but when we leave, we need to

protect the single market across the UK so that farmers in Wales can

trade and sell their goods in England and vice versa, but also, we

need international trade deals whereby exporters or manufacturers

in Wales can take those new opportunities leaving European Union

brings and that would take a trade agreement for which we will need at

framework across the UK. After the election and the result

you did not want will it be a softer Brexit? I do not accept soft or

hard, we want the right deal, the Labour Party manifesto and our

manifesto board said we will leave the membership, we will not be

members of the single market. Your party leader in Scotland, Ruth

Davidson, she wants membership of the single market back on the

agenda, is she right, will you join her in pushing for that? The Labour

Party manifesto and the Conservative manifesto both talk about not being

members of the single market but we want access... So is Ruth Davis

wrong? Let's focus on the outcomes, I want someone who makes any sort of

gadget in Wales to have the right and the opportunity to sell it in

Europe in a similar way to the do now. What does access to it mean? Do

you want to be in the single market? That is what lots of conservatives

are pushing for now. We want to be able to sell and trade freely across

the single market. The most frictionless way possible as we can

with the European Union and the Welsh government collet unfettered.

These are one and the same thing, it shows there are a a lot of common

ground across the Labour Party and Conservative Party, the two largest

parties in parliament and I believe that basis through constructive

joint working, looking for the right outcomes for businesses and on that

basis we will do the right thing for the Wales and the UK economy. The

Queen said the priority will be building a more united country, what

does that mean? It goes back to a country that works for everyone. We

remember when the Prime Minister stood on the steps of Downing Street

a year ago, she spoke about the bond between Wales, England, Scotland and

Northern Ireland and she understands the importance of the union. It's

really important to Wales, the skills of public money we receive,

all the advantages we get from being part of the fifth largest economy in

the world, and on that basis we want to ensure the most deprived parts,

West Wales and the ballet as it is currently classified by the EU, gets

the right level of support and that's why in our manifesto we

brought forward the UK Shared Prosperity Fund so that name means

the UK Government... So it's about redistributing wealth? Two it's much

more accommodated than that but it's about a country that is at ease with

itself... What does that mean? These are not the words obviously, but

what you mean about a more united country and talking specifically

about the geography? Are you rolling back on devolution? You are thinking

about process, we are thinking about culture, opportunities, it's about

bringing the country, there are quite obviously divisions we have

seen with these terrorist attacks of late, we want to ensure the country

is at ease with itself. But the Prime Minister Pittsburgh union of

the UK at the top of her agenda. She said it on her first day in Downing

Street and it's a common theme in our manifesto and it recognises that

four countries coming together are much greater as one unit than we are

when we are all acting and working in different directions with

different priorities. How long will Theresa May be Prime Minister do you

think? Well she absolutely has my support and the full support of the

parliamentary party. Last week when she spoke to all the Conservative

MPs I have never seen such support behind one Prime Minister as was

demonstrated... She is on fire, top up again, leading the country? The

support paramount, the disbursement of many journalists who were

expecting something different. There is important work to do, a plan in

the Queen 's speech... You had to ditch loads of things, this was not

the plan was it? Strong and stable, you are scrambling for a coalition

of chaos with the DUP, it's blown up in your face hasn't it? It's about

doing right thing for the country and doing the right thing to get the

right outcome. We continue to have a growing economy, when we have that

we can continue to grow the spending on public services on the public

sector in general, on reducing taxes, controlling immigration and

taking those new opportunities that leaving the... So she will lead you

into the next election? She has said she will lead us for as long as she

has the support of the MPs and the party members and at the moment she

has that support and I don't see that changing. Alun Cairns, thank

you very much. The Welsh Secretary Alun Cairns talking to me earlier.

Owen Smith is Labour's newly appointed Shadow Secretary of State

for Northern Ireland, the leader of Plaid

Cymru's Westminster group - Liz Saville-Roberts

and the Liberal Democrat peer Baroness Jenny Randerson.

I will start with you Owen Smith, what will be the Labour strategy,

will you just oppose everything for the sake of it? We never do that. If

the government put things on the table we think are worthwhile or

there are bills as some of today that we think are necessary we will

do our job which is to be loyal opposition scrutinising what the

government is doing and trying to keep them honest but we will remind

people of what they could have had. We will remind them what they could

have won. Queen 's speech today which is incredibly thin. There is

barely enough legislation you could argue other than the Brexit stuff to

them going. Do we need a bill for smart meters? For the space

industry? They were padding. We will point out the things which could

have been in there. All the things Labour would have done. This is a

government which has listened, ditched a lot of its manifesto after

the election, it has lessened, the triple lock on pensions is gone, the

means testing on winter fuel, it has listened. It has not lessened, it

has given into the political arithmetic. There is really no sign

that this government even now is achieving the humility it needs to

have in the face of that election debacle. They have given in to the

political arithmetic, the truth of the situation is they will not get

anything, even slightly controversial, through Parliament.

And also they are going to have to devote so much of the political time

in Westminster to the Brexit negotiations. We will come onto

those, but Liz Sabo Roberts what will be strategy of Plaid Cymru be?

Do you see this hand Parliament offering opportunities for Wales?

There have been opportunities in the past and I hope Plaid Cymru can play

a role again in the future to bring particular benefits for Wales.

Interesting Owen Smith now these Shadow Secretary of State for Health

Ireland, and what if we see the DUP asking for particular deals, how

does that play back to Wales and our block grant? But what we have seen

is a hollowed out shell of a government and what has remained of

the manifesto they dared to put in front of the public and that's one

of the most challenging times we face not only in terms of Brexit and

I would expect a far greater role to be played by the devolved

governments, we need to have more than the details. We need to play a

part for our devolved governments in the process and in the final

decisions. We have had some of the most terrible events in terms of

tragedies and terrorist attacks that our generation has experienced and

in all honesty there is nothing to deal with that. I would have

expected more to support the police and fundamental questions about

austerity. Let's look at Brexit, Owen you presumably you are pretty

close on the type of Brexit you would advocate, do you see this as

an opportunity to ditch party allegiances and form some sort of

consensus across the opposition parties to work together and push

for a softer Brexit? Yes I think it's an opportunity for all of us in

the House of Commons including those on the Tory side and in Northern

Ireland who want to see a Brexit that will not damage our economy.

Who want to make sure we stay as close to being in the single market

as we possibly can, that we have got a customs union we can deal with.

Can I press you on that, you say as close as possible to the single

market, more than 30 MPs from your own party are pushing a letter today

for a commitment from Jeremy Corbyn to push to remain in the single

market. I share that view, I think the outcome which would be best

would effectively be for us to be in the single market. Is he listening

to you, you're on the front bench now. I will come back, I have been

in Northern Ireland this week but I will tell him at the moment I do not

see a solution which will be politically acceptable and

acceptable in terms of maintaining the peace process in Northern

Ireland that does not leave us with a soft border between North and

South or a border between Great Britain and Northern Ireland that is

going to be pretty much as it is right now. Do you think the Labour

position is strong enough on Brexit and clear enough? You are on the

front bench now, you can tell him. We

I think the real missed opportunity of this in respect of Brexit is to

lay out more detail... This is a real cause of concern, we have Owen

Smith talking about being the opposition but there is no

consistent from the Labour Party as to what their approach to Brexit

would be. If we can come back to Wales, we have been advocating

membership of the single market, the customs union but this isn't just

us, business voices are saying mess, agriculture are seeing less, we need

to have this consistent voice for Wales because Wales will suffer

otherwise. The people of Wales and the UK said a very clear no to your

position on Brexit, they do not want a second referendum, you have lost

the battle and are out of touch as a party. We are certainly not in a

position having lost the battle on Brexit. We are just starting on the

process of negotiation. There are a lot of skirmishes to come and I can

tell you that the Liberal Democrats will be working every day to make

sure that Britain remains within the single market and that we have the

sort of Brexit that is acceptable to the people of Britain and will not

make Wales border. What do you say to the people of Wales who want a

hard Brexit? Those who voted out do not want a soft Brexit so what do

you say to them? Of course there are people who want a hard Brexit but

40% of people one year ago did not want Brexit at all, wanted to

remain. Where the government has gone badly wrong I think is not

recognising that the 52% who voted to leave did not have one single

clear idea, there was no recipe on the ballot paper for what sort of

Brexit we would have. In the recent election what was clear from the

public view is more and more people are saying I did not realise it was

going to be so complicated. You ain't seen nothing yet. One of our

roles will be to work with other parties in order to get the very

best deal for Wales and the UK. Livestock about the potential deal

with the DUP. You have been over there today Owen, what could be the

potential impact of a deal like that, not on UK politics but on

politics in Northern Ireland and also the knock-on effect as

suggested for Wales? It's not just in Wales we need is strong and

stable government, are Westminster, we need one in Northern Ireland and

the worst of all deal with the one which led to in any way inhibiting

the peace process in Northern Ireland. That cannot be allowed to

happen. Do you think a deal with the DUP in Westminster scuppers the

rebirth of the assembly in Belfast? I do not think that, I think it's

possible deal can be done between the DUP and the Tories in

Westminster and the Stormont assembly and executive could be

restored in Northern Ireland. But there is a danger that it is

perceived as damaging the impartiality of the government, that

it inhibits talks between the parties and it is perceived to be an

fair. Is also a danger that any deal needs to be extended to other parts

of the UK including Wales and I would agree about that, we need to

be careful to scrutinise the government. If there was a deal for

?2 billion extra for Northern Ireland as is being discussed you

would expect parity for Wales but anything less is not good enough? I

think we should look at how the nations are financed as it stands

but of course parity with Northern Island and the other big

infrastructure we have seen in England we have not seen in Wales.

We should make Wales position as strong as possible with some aspects

of the bills mentioned today, agriculture and fisheries, are these

taking back powers from our devolved governments and what are the

implications going to be? One of the really important things picking up

on that last point is we make sure the repatriations of powers from the

EU is not a central government power grab. We need to be devolving powers

to Wales, we need to use the Brexit process as a way of getting more

power for the Welsh government and the Welsh assembly. You all say you

are disappointed with this Queen 's speech, do you really want to bring

this government down, do you really want another general election? Yes,

I want a Labour government. Jeremy Corbyn, you have kissed and made up?

Chemmy definitely. I want to see on Northern Ireland, we have to be

conscious of the fact that the politics of Westminster cannot

inhibit the peace process. Talking about parity between the treatment

Northern Ireland gets in other parts of the UK is not what we have done

in the past and we need to be careful that Northern Ireland is a

special case. Back to Jeremy Corbyn who you tried to prevent from being

leader, you are clearly big friends and you want him to be Prime

Minister now, you want the election tomorrow? I want a Labour government

and Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister, if they can have that tomorrow I

will be a happy man. Are you up for another election now? I think if we

went on the street nobody would be looking for another election but I

am concerned that both of the Unionist parties have no clear

vision of what is best for Wales which is the Buddhist area in the

UK. Would you rather Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May? I have little faith

in either. Our job as Plaid Cymru is to get the best deal for Wales. You

would rather the Tories and Labour? I want the best deal for Wales. Who

would you prefer? The Labour Party is doing a lot of shape shifting, it

is not clear on the Brexit it once so one of our aims will be to make

sure we get the very best possible outcome on the European issue.

Finally in a word, how long will Theresa May be Prime Minister? As

long as she can keep her party with her but I don't think it will be all

that long. I think it will be longer than people are hoping. No idea but

one thing recent events have showed me is to expect the unexpected.

Thank you for joining us. If you'd like to get in touch

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