Tue, 27 Feb 2018 21:30 Y Byd ar Bedwar


Tue, 27 Feb 2018 21:30

Mewn cyfres newydd, mae'r criw yn mynd dan groen y diwylliant cig anghyfreithlon yng Nghymru. The illegal meat trade in Wales. Is legalising smokies the only way to protect publ...


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-These were the shocking conditions

-on Carmelo Gale's farm...

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-..near Llandysul in 2015.

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-A smokies production unit.

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-Illegal meat sold

-on the black market.

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-There was nothing dirty

-about that meat.

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-Nothing dirty. Come on, Carmelo.

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-We have a right to slaughter

-our animals on the farm.

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-They're killed the same way

-wherever you go.

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-Some scientists claim that smokies

-can be dangerous to eat.

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-The burning is non-uniform and these

-pathogens can survive the process.

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-It can lead to severe, sometimes

-fatal, human health consequences.

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-With Brexit on the horizon,

-others are calling for legalisation.

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-A lot of people moved to Britain

-from West Africa. They want smokies.

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-On tonight's Y Byd ar Bedwar...

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-..are smokies a case

-of smoke without fire?

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-Smokies is the burnt meat

-of goats or old sheep.

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-We received this footage

-from a Welsh group...

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-..who want smokies legalised.

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-This was a controlled experiment...

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-..to show that the meat

-was safe to eat.

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-The carcass is burnt

-with the skin still on it.

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-According to people who eat smokies,

-it gives the meat an unique flavour.

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-There are concerns that the process

-creates dangerous chemicals...

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-..and the meat

-becomes a haven for bacteria.

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-Smokies are illegal

-under European law.

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-For the past year, I've been

-researching the world of smokies.

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-Today, I'm heading to a secret

-location where meat is on the menu.

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-So this is it.

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-Kebab. Skin-on sheep or goat.

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-Smokies.

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-Janet Symmons has invited me

-for Sunday dinner.

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-She's part of a campaign

-to legalise smokies.

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-Before we talk,

-she wants me to taste the meat.

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-What have we got on here?

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-What have we got on here?

-

-This is skin-on goat.

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-The skin's on.

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-The skin's on.

-

-That's been smoked.

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-It's illegal at the minute.

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-Yes, so you are...!

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-I'm eating illegal meat.

-Let's give it a try.

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-What do you think?

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-What do you think?

-

-I can taste the smoke.

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-It gives it a different,

-distinct flavour.

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-Originally from Ghana,

-Janet and her friends...

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-..are amongst

-the 180,000 of people in Britain...

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-..who have roots in West Africa.

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-Smokies is a popular dish

-in that part of the world.

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-The goat is the one with the skin.

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-It's got skin on?

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-They admit that there's an element

-of risk to eating the meat in Wales.

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-Why do you want to eat it

-with the skin on?

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-Because that's the meat

-I was brought up on, all of us.

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-Most of West Africans. When

-I first came here, it was legal.

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-You could get it. It wasn't common

-but you could get it legally.

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-You then had change because

-you adopted the EU regulations.

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-It became illegal.

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-It has now forced us to buy it

-from every Tom, Dick and Harry...

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-..that we can get it from,

-which is unhealthy.

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-Tom, Dick or Harry

-aren't here today...

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-..but at the table is one man

-caught producing smokies.

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-What's the verdict?

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-What's the verdict?

-

-Carmelo Gale has a long history...

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-..of running illegal abattoirs.

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-He's come to our attention

-in the past.

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-Back in 2005, Y Byd ar Bedwar

-filmed him addressing an audience...

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-..in Llanddewi-Brefi.

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-At the time,

-he was known as the Smokey King.

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-Four years ago, dirty meat.

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-Dirty meat, not fit for a dog.

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-What was my answer to that?

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-Quite right,

-it's too expensive to give to them.

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-He's spent time in jail

-for producing illegal meat...

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-..but he insists he's battling

-for people's rights and freedom.

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-Who's fighting

-for these ethnic people?

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-Our unions aren't fighting for them.

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-You have the halal trade. No-one

-from the unions speaks about halal.

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-You have the smokie trade -

-they're scared.

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-Over ten years later, I wanted to

-know what had become of Carmelo...

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-..and his campaign.

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-I met a sheep farmer

-from near Lampeter in Ceredigion.

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-Earlier in the month, the Institute

-for Public Policy warned...

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-..that the future was bleak

-for Welsh sheep farmers post-Brexit.

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-There are concerns especially

-after the Government revealed...

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-..their research into Brexit.

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-They don't believe there's a

-secure future for lamb after Brexit.

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-They're fearful of that

-and that's bad news.

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-With increased costs

-and the price rising very little...

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-..it's going to be very difficult.

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-The Cwmann farmer is a member of the

-National Sheep Association, the NSA.

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-They're a prominent

-farming society...

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-..that formed a committee

-to lobby politicians...

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-..to legalise smokies.

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-Andrew Jones supports the call.

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-Some viewers will be surprised

-to hear someone like you...

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-..calling for smokies

-to be legalised.

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-There is a stigma, as you say.

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-There is a stigma.

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-When you mention smokies, it's

-a dirty word, it's a hot potato.

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-People don't want to hear about it.

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-They want to brush it

-under the carpet.

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-It should be legalised,

-there's a market and demand for it.

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-If it is legalised,

-it'll add value to old sheep.

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-The old sheep,

-they're at the end of their lives.

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-If we can add some value to them,

-it will be a boost...

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-..especially if Brexit affects us.

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-As a sheep gets older,

-its value diminishes.

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-The same sheep can treble in price

-if it's sold as a smokie.

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-Amongst the farmers

-in Tregaron mart...

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-..there are plenty of sympathetic

-voices for legalising smokies.

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-It does go on in rural Wales...

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-..and it's a way of selling sheep

-that hold no value for us.

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-The cheapest sheep,

-the Welsh sheep...

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-..and it's a market for these sheep

-when no other market exists.

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-If there's a market for smokies,

-we should service that market.

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-I'm worried about things

-that are happening.

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-A lot of sheep are being stolen.

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-They say that's what happens

-to a lot of these sheep.

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-They're killed on farms

-or in back streets...

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-..and become smokies illegally.

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-If this is legalised,

-the industry will benefit.

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-You hear whispers

-that some people are at it...

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-..but you don't know if it's true.

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-If there are whispers out there...

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-..they'll soon be heard

-by people in legal circles.

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-Not many people

-have been punished for doing it yet.

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-Back at the Sunday lunch,

-I speak to Carmelo Gale.

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-He wants to show me

-a collection of different meats.

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-Some are legal while others aren't.

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-He's been prosecuted many times

-for crime linked to smokies.

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-He says the trouble he's had with

-the law has affected his health.

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-How do you feel

-after being imprisoned...

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-..for something you feel

-is quite legitimate?

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-How does that make you feel?

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-I feel bad about it. It's not only

-affected me but my family too.

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-Sometimes, I call myself

-the sacrificed lamb.

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-That day,

-he was under a cloud again.

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-He was waiting to be tried

-for a seventh time.

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-He faced accusations of running an

-illegal abattoir to produce smokies.

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-You're in court later this year.

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-Tell me more about that case.

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-I'm not going to tell you anything.

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-There's no point talking about it.

-You can speak to me after it.

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-Carmelo Gale isn't the only farmer

-in West Wales...

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-..who's been imprisoned

-for producing smokies.

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-In 2005, in Elgin Sheriff Court...

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-..Julian Jones was imprisoned

-for six months...

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-..for running an illegal abattoir.

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-Smokies were on his menu too.

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-By 2010, he was back in Wales.

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-He was caught near Newport...

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-..transporting smokies in a van

-on the M4.

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-He was given another 15 months

-in prison...

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-..for producing meat

-unfit for human consumption.

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-Two years ago, the Welsh speaker

-was due back in court once more.

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-Here, in Swansea Crown Court...

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-..Julian Jones and Robert Gordon

-Thomas, also of West Wales...

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-..faced accusations of producing

-smokies on Jones' family farm...

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-..Bangor Teifi, near Llandysul.

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-Thomas was sent to prison for

-28 weeks, suspended for two years...

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-..and given 200 hours of community

-service for his part in the deceit.

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-Jones didn't appear in court.

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-He'd absconded. To this day,

-no-one's quite sure where he is.

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-.

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-Subtitles

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-City Road, Cardiff.

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-I'm on my way to a shop

-that sells goods...

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-..to the city's African community.

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-At the back of the shop, owner

-Janet Symmons sells unusual meats.

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-There's the actual leg.

-One leg of a cow.

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-It doesn't look

-the tastiest thing in the world.

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-I agree, but it's very, very tasty

-when it's cooked.

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-The way we prepare it

-is very mouth-watering.

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-One thing she can't sell is smokies.

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-She says the meat

-is in high demand...

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-..but she has to

-disappoint customers...

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-..because selling it is illegal.

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-People are making money.

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-Why can't the Welsh farmers

-make money?

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-Why can't they be slaughtered

-in a proper clean abattoir...

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-..which will benefit

-the whole country and benefit us?

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-She has a petition in her shop

-to try and reverse the EU law...

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-..and legalise smokies...

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-..to stop people relying

-on the black market for smokies.

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-We are having to buy this meat

-underground.

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-We don't know where they are being

-slaughtered...

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-..how long ago the animal

-was injected.

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-We don't know anything.

-It's more dangerous.

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-But because that is what

-we're used to...

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-..we are prepared to take some risk.

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-There's been a question mark...

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-..over the safety of smokies

-for over a decade.

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-I visited Liverpool University

-to meet an expert...

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-..in public health and food hygiene.

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-The Food Standards Agency

-commissioned him...

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-..to study the safety of smokies.

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-What we have here is E.coli 0157.

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-It is commonly found

-on sheep's skin.

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-Then we have here salmonella.

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-Again, it is inhabitant

-on the sheep's skin.

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-It is found on 8-10% of sheep's skin

-produced in the UK.

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-Cooking meat

-usually kills bacteria...

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-..but this scientist claims that

-the process of creating smokies...

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-..isn't enough to prevent E.coli

-and salmonella.

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-The burning is non-uniform and these

-pathogens can survive the process.

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-They can end up being

-in the final product...

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-..and lead to severe, sometimes

-fatal, human health consequences.

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-In 2006,

-studies by Bristol University...

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-..claimed that smokies could

-be produced that were safe to eat.

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-Dr Antic's report in 2015

-claimed more work was needed...

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-..before a final conclusion

-could be reached.

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-Only when we gather

-sufficient scientific evidence...

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-..we can do

-a proper risk-assessment.

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-Then, we can come up

-with the final conclusion...

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-..whether the production of

-smoke skin on sheep meat is safe.

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-It is comparable

-to what we have now...

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-..conventional skin-off

-sheep meat production.

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-A month after Liverpool University's

-report was published...

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-..Trading Standards officers visited

-Bangor Teifi farm near Llandysul.

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-This is Carmelo Gale's farm.

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-There was evidence that someone

-had been producing smokies there.

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-Officers discovered

-piles of animal remains...

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-..blood seeping into the soil...

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-..and burnt sheep's heads.

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-One of the officers who visited

-the farm was Rhys Harries.

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-As you can see in the pictures...

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-..there are a lot of footprints

-with red in them.

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-The sheep is hung, slaughtered

-and is bled out onto the mud below.

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-There's buckets of heads, etc.

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-This is where

-they are being slaughtered.

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-It's not

-a very hygienic environment.

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-Rhys Harries was sent to the farm

-after police stopped this van...

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-..on the M4 near Swansea.

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-Carmelo Gale had rented the van.

-50 smokies were inside.

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-I don't think anyone would be happy

-to eat meat from this environment.

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-If anyone had seen that the meat

-was produced in this manner...

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-..no-one would want to eat it.

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-In November 2017,

-Carmelo Gale pleaded guilty...

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-..to charges

-of running an illegal abattoir...

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-..and other charges

-relating to food hygiene.

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-He was sentenced in Swansea Crown

-Court to eight months of prison...

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-..suspended for two years.

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-Since his court case, I've spoken

-to Carmelo Gale many times...

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-..and asked him

-for another interview.

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-He says he's ready

-to speak to us again...

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-..but he hasn't confirmed

-a time or location.

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-This morning, he said

-he was free and willing to meet me.

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-I'm on my way to his friend's farm

-in South Ceredigion.

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-Smokies can sell for 200

-on the black market.

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-I wanted to ask if profit or the

-rights of the African community...

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-..was behind Carmelo Gale's

-interest in smokies.

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-The truth is you wanted

-to make some more money.

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-You had a market

-that wanted this produce.

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-You broke rules

-and ignored regulations...

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-..to give them the food illegally.

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-I'll tell you one thing,

-I have no money.

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-I've almost become

-a bankrupt business.

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-Don't tell me it's for profit.

-It's not.

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-Have you seen this?

-This was your farm.

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-What's your response to that?

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-What's your response to that?

-

-No comment.

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-Aren't you ashamed in any way

-that you're giving people food...

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-..after slaughtering animals

-in those conditions?

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-I have nothing to say about it.

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-Don't you want to say sorry?

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-Do you want to apologise to people

-who ate food produced in that way?

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-Everyone knows what they eat.

-Everything is slaughtered.

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-Everyone knows how it's done.

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-You portray yourself as a man

-looking after people's rights.

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-Yes.

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-When you see those photos...

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-..if you wanted

-to be a freedom fighter...

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-..shouldn't you do things properly

-and as hygienically as possible?

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-That would get people on your side.

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-There was nothing dirty

-about that meat.

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-Nothing dirty. Come on, Carmelo.

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-We have a right to slaughter

-our animals on the farm.

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-They're killed the same way

-wherever you go.

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-What about the way you transported

-animals, in the back of a van?

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-That's no way to transport meat.

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-I'm not saying a thing.

-Everyone knew what it was.

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-He was happy to give his views

-on legalisation...

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-..but he wasn't happy

-with my line of questioning.

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-You don't give a fuck.

-You're out of order.

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-My son and daughter begged me

-not to come here today.

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-They begged me because you were

-going to drop me in the shit.

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-I also wanted to find Julian Jones,

-the other West Wales farmer...

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-..who has a long history

-of producing and providing smokies.

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-He left the country in 2015

-to avoid prosecution.

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-On a website for ex-pats,

-we found a Julian from Wales...

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-..now living in Cambodia.

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-He was using a profile

-named J smokies.

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-He was searching for land to rent

-in Sihanoukville.

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-He also wanted to buy goats.

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-When we spoke to one man who said

-he was in contact with him...

0:19:410:19:45

-..he said that Julian

-was short of cash.

0:19:460:19:49

-He would only speak to us for a fee.

0:19:500:19:52

-We weren't ready to strike

-a bargain with him.

0:19:520:19:56

-I visited the farm where his mother

-and wife still live near Llandysul.

0:19:570:20:02

-They weren't ready

-to speak to us on camera.

0:20:020:20:05

-They said they weren't

-in touch with him.

0:20:050:20:08

-They hadn't heard from him

-in two years.

0:20:080:20:11

-The case against him is still open.

0:20:110:20:13

-Some more respectable faces support

-the campaign to legalise smokies.

0:20:230:20:29

-With Britain leaving the EU...

0:20:290:20:31

-..sheep farmer and MP Glyn Davies...

0:20:320:20:34

-..can see an opportunity

-for Welsh farmers.

0:20:350:20:38

-We're in the middle

-of leaving the EU.

0:20:380:20:41

-We can ensure that producing

-smokies is done safely.

0:20:420:20:49

-I think we can do that.

-There's a good market.

0:20:510:20:55

-A lot of people moved to Britain

-from West Africa. They want smokies.

0:20:550:21:00

-Farmers in Wales keep older sheep.

-They want to sell them.

0:21:000:21:04

-It's a missed opportunity.

0:21:040:21:07

-The politician accepts

-that legalisation...

0:21:070:21:10

-..will be low on the

-Brexit minister's priority list...

0:21:100:21:14

-..but he will push the case

-on behalf of Welsh farmers.

0:21:140:21:18

-It's important to me.

-I represent Mid Wales.

0:21:180:21:21

-I've worked throughout my life

-in the sheep sector.

0:21:210:21:26

-I understand how important this is.

0:21:260:21:30

-It's quite a responsibility for me

-to raise this point in Westminster.

0:21:300:21:35

-That's what I'm doing.

0:21:350:21:36

-Back in Cardiff,

-Janet Symmons continues to work...

0:21:370:21:40

-..on behalf of the African community

-to legalise smokies.

0:21:410:21:44

-For this business woman...

0:21:440:21:46

-..the battle goes deeper than

-winning the right to eat the meat.

0:21:470:21:51

-We feel that our taste

-is being suppressed.

0:21:510:21:58

-They're giving the kosher

-and they're giving the halal...

0:21:580:22:02

-..but we are not supposed

-to have ours.

0:22:020:22:04

-Why? We are also here

-in this country.

0:22:050:22:08

-One man who considers himself

-a friend of the African community...

0:22:080:22:12

-..is Carmelo Gale.

0:22:120:22:14

-He's been prosecuted seven times

-for crimes linked to smokies...

0:22:140:22:18

-..but he doesn't consider himself

-a criminal.

0:22:180:22:21

-You talk about all the bad things

-but none of the good things.

0:22:210:22:25

-You've had the chance

-to talk about those.

0:22:250:22:28

-We also have to ask

-about the bad things.

0:22:280:22:31

-You ask more about the bad things

-than the good things.

0:22:310:22:36

-I find it hard to understand.

-You're not helping yourself.

0:22:370:22:40

-I'm not going to talk much more.

0:22:400:22:43

-Talk about the benefits.

-People want to eat it.

0:22:430:22:46

-Farmers are suffering...

0:22:470:22:48

-..because they're not paid enough

-for their produce.

0:22:480:22:52

-In his recent court case...

0:22:520:22:54

-..his solicitor said

-that Gale was now separated...

0:22:540:22:58

-..living in a caravan

-and suffering with depression.

0:22:580:23:02

-At 61 years of age,

-he says the years...

0:23:020:23:05

-..of living

-in the world of smokies are over.

0:23:050:23:08

-It took over my life.

0:23:080:23:10

-It affected me, my family

-told me to leave it alone.

0:23:100:23:15

-I was too much of a donkey.

0:23:150:23:17

-Because I was such a donkey,

-it affected my health.

0:23:180:23:22

-The fight had taken over

-my life and my mind.

0:23:220:23:26

-But I still believe strongly in it.

0:23:270:23:29

-S4C Subtitles by Adnod Cyf.

0:23:440:23:46

-.

0:23:460:23:47

Mewn cyfres newydd, mae'r criw yn mynd dan groen y diwylliant cig anghyfreithlon yng Nghymru. The illegal meat trade in Wales. Is legalising smokies the only way to protect public health?


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