Tue, 27 Feb 2018 21:30 Y Byd ar Bedwar
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-Subtitles - -Subtitles | 0:00:00 | 0:00:02 | |
-These were the shocking conditions -on Carmelo Gale's farm... | 0:00:02 | 0:00:07 | |
-..near Llandysul in 2015. | 0:00:07 | 0:00:09 | |
-A smokies production unit. | 0:00:09 | 0:00:11 | |
-Illegal meat sold -on the black market. | 0:00:11 | 0:00:15 | |
-There was nothing dirty -about that meat. | 0:00:17 | 0:00:19 | |
-Nothing dirty. Come on, Carmelo. | 0:00:20 | 0:00:22 | |
-We have a right to slaughter -our animals on the farm. | 0:00:23 | 0:00:26 | |
-They're killed the same way -wherever you go. | 0:00:26 | 0:00:29 | |
-Some scientists claim that smokies -can be dangerous to eat. | 0:00:29 | 0:00:34 | |
-The burning is non-uniform and these -pathogens can survive the process. | 0:00:34 | 0:00:40 | |
-It can lead to severe, sometimes -fatal, human health consequences. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:44 | |
-With Brexit on the horizon, -others are calling for legalisation. | 0:00:44 | 0:00:49 | |
-A lot of people moved to Britain -from West Africa. They want smokies. | 0:00:50 | 0:00:56 | |
-On tonight's Y Byd ar Bedwar... | 0:00:56 | 0:00:58 | |
-..are smokies a case -of smoke without fire? | 0:00:58 | 0:01:01 | |
-Smokies is the burnt meat -of goats or old sheep. | 0:01:12 | 0:01:16 | |
-We received this footage -from a Welsh group... | 0:01:17 | 0:01:20 | |
-..who want smokies legalised. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:22 | |
-This was a controlled experiment... | 0:01:24 | 0:01:27 | |
-..to show that the meat -was safe to eat. | 0:01:27 | 0:01:30 | |
-The carcass is burnt -with the skin still on it. | 0:01:36 | 0:01:39 | |
-According to people who eat smokies, -it gives the meat an unique flavour. | 0:01:39 | 0:01:44 | |
-There are concerns that the process -creates dangerous chemicals... | 0:01:46 | 0:01:51 | |
-..and the meat -becomes a haven for bacteria. | 0:01:51 | 0:01:54 | |
-Smokies are illegal -under European law. | 0:01:55 | 0:01:57 | |
-For the past year, I've been -researching the world of smokies. | 0:02:00 | 0:02:04 | |
-Today, I'm heading to a secret -location where meat is on the menu. | 0:02:04 | 0:02:08 | |
-So this is it. | 0:02:10 | 0:02:11 | |
-Kebab. Skin-on sheep or goat. | 0:02:12 | 0:02:15 | |
-Smokies. | 0:02:16 | 0:02:18 | |
-Janet Symmons has invited me -for Sunday dinner. | 0:02:21 | 0:02:26 | |
-She's part of a campaign -to legalise smokies. | 0:02:26 | 0:02:29 | |
-Before we talk, -she wants me to taste the meat. | 0:02:30 | 0:02:33 | |
-What have we got on here? | 0:02:35 | 0:02:36 | |
-What have we got on here? - -This is skin-on goat. | 0:02:36 | 0:02:39 | |
-The skin's on. | 0:02:39 | 0:02:41 | |
-The skin's on. - -That's been smoked. | 0:02:41 | 0:02:43 | |
-It's illegal at the minute. | 0:02:43 | 0:02:45 | |
-Yes, so you are...! | 0:02:45 | 0:02:47 | |
-I'm eating illegal meat. -Let's give it a try. | 0:02:48 | 0:02:50 | |
-What do you think? | 0:02:55 | 0:02:57 | |
-What do you think? - -I can taste the smoke. | 0:02:57 | 0:02:59 | |
-It gives it a different, -distinct flavour. | 0:02:59 | 0:03:02 | |
-Originally from Ghana, -Janet and her friends... | 0:03:04 | 0:03:07 | |
-..are amongst -the 180,000 of people in Britain... | 0:03:07 | 0:03:10 | |
-..who have roots in West Africa. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:13 | |
-Smokies is a popular dish -in that part of the world. | 0:03:14 | 0:03:17 | |
-The goat is the one with the skin. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:21 | |
-It's got skin on? | 0:03:21 | 0:03:23 | |
-They admit that there's an element -of risk to eating the meat in Wales. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:28 | |
-Why do you want to eat it -with the skin on? | 0:03:29 | 0:03:31 | |
-Because that's the meat -I was brought up on, all of us. | 0:03:32 | 0:03:35 | |
-Most of West Africans. When -I first came here, it was legal. | 0:03:35 | 0:03:39 | |
-You could get it. It wasn't common -but you could get it legally. | 0:03:39 | 0:03:43 | |
-You then had change because -you adopted the EU regulations. | 0:03:44 | 0:03:48 | |
-It became illegal. | 0:03:48 | 0:03:50 | |
-It has now forced us to buy it -from every Tom, Dick and Harry... | 0:03:50 | 0:03:56 | |
-..that we can get it from, -which is unhealthy. | 0:03:56 | 0:03:59 | |
-Tom, Dick or Harry -aren't here today... | 0:04:01 | 0:04:05 | |
-..but at the table is one man -caught producing smokies. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:09 | |
-What's the verdict? | 0:04:11 | 0:04:12 | |
-What's the verdict? - -Carmelo Gale has a long history... | 0:04:12 | 0:04:15 | |
-..of running illegal abattoirs. | 0:04:15 | 0:04:18 | |
-He's come to our attention -in the past. | 0:04:18 | 0:04:21 | |
-Back in 2005, Y Byd ar Bedwar -filmed him addressing an audience... | 0:04:25 | 0:04:29 | |
-..in Llanddewi-Brefi. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:31 | |
-At the time, -he was known as the Smokey King. | 0:04:33 | 0:04:36 | |
-Four years ago, dirty meat. | 0:04:38 | 0:04:41 | |
-Dirty meat, not fit for a dog. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:44 | |
-What was my answer to that? | 0:04:44 | 0:04:46 | |
-Quite right, -it's too expensive to give to them. | 0:04:47 | 0:04:50 | |
-He's spent time in jail -for producing illegal meat... | 0:04:53 | 0:04:58 | |
-..but he insists he's battling -for people's rights and freedom. | 0:04:59 | 0:05:03 | |
-Who's fighting -for these ethnic people? | 0:05:05 | 0:05:08 | |
-Our unions aren't fighting for them. | 0:05:08 | 0:05:11 | |
-You have the halal trade. No-one -from the unions speaks about halal. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:15 | |
-You have the smokie trade - -they're scared. | 0:05:15 | 0:05:18 | |
-Over ten years later, I wanted to -know what had become of Carmelo... | 0:05:21 | 0:05:25 | |
-..and his campaign. | 0:05:26 | 0:05:29 | |
-I met a sheep farmer -from near Lampeter in Ceredigion. | 0:05:29 | 0:05:33 | |
-Earlier in the month, the Institute -for Public Policy warned... | 0:05:33 | 0:05:38 | |
-..that the future was bleak -for Welsh sheep farmers post-Brexit. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:44 | |
-There are concerns especially -after the Government revealed... | 0:05:44 | 0:05:48 | |
-..their research into Brexit. | 0:05:48 | 0:05:51 | |
-They don't believe there's a -secure future for lamb after Brexit. | 0:05:51 | 0:05:57 | |
-They're fearful of that -and that's bad news. | 0:05:57 | 0:06:00 | |
-With increased costs -and the price rising very little... | 0:06:01 | 0:06:05 | |
-..it's going to be very difficult. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:07 | |
-The Cwmann farmer is a member of the -National Sheep Association, the NSA. | 0:06:08 | 0:06:15 | |
-They're a prominent -farming society... | 0:06:15 | 0:06:17 | |
-..that formed a committee -to lobby politicians... | 0:06:18 | 0:06:21 | |
-..to legalise smokies. | 0:06:21 | 0:06:24 | |
-Andrew Jones supports the call. | 0:06:24 | 0:06:26 | |
-Some viewers will be surprised -to hear someone like you... | 0:06:27 | 0:06:32 | |
-..calling for smokies -to be legalised. | 0:06:32 | 0:06:35 | |
-There is a stigma, as you say. | 0:06:35 | 0:06:37 | |
-There is a stigma. | 0:06:38 | 0:06:39 | |
-When you mention smokies, it's -a dirty word, it's a hot potato. | 0:06:39 | 0:06:43 | |
-People don't want to hear about it. | 0:06:43 | 0:06:45 | |
-They want to brush it -under the carpet. | 0:06:45 | 0:06:48 | |
-It should be legalised, -there's a market and demand for it. | 0:06:48 | 0:06:51 | |
-If it is legalised, -it'll add value to old sheep. | 0:06:52 | 0:06:57 | |
-The old sheep, -they're at the end of their lives. | 0:06:57 | 0:07:01 | |
-If we can add some value to them, -it will be a boost... | 0:07:01 | 0:07:05 | |
-..especially if Brexit affects us. | 0:07:05 | 0:07:07 | |
-As a sheep gets older, -its value diminishes. | 0:07:11 | 0:07:14 | |
-The same sheep can treble in price -if it's sold as a smokie. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:18 | |
-Amongst the farmers -in Tregaron mart... | 0:07:19 | 0:07:21 | |
-..there are plenty of sympathetic -voices for legalising smokies. | 0:07:21 | 0:07:26 | |
-It does go on in rural Wales... | 0:07:27 | 0:07:30 | |
-..and it's a way of selling sheep -that hold no value for us. | 0:07:30 | 0:07:35 | |
-The cheapest sheep, -the Welsh sheep... | 0:07:35 | 0:07:38 | |
-..and it's a market for these sheep -when no other market exists. | 0:07:38 | 0:07:43 | |
-If there's a market for smokies, -we should service that market. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:50 | |
-I'm worried about things -that are happening. | 0:07:50 | 0:07:53 | |
-A lot of sheep are being stolen. | 0:07:53 | 0:07:56 | |
-They say that's what happens -to a lot of these sheep. | 0:07:56 | 0:07:59 | |
-They're killed on farms -or in back streets... | 0:08:00 | 0:08:03 | |
-..and become smokies illegally. | 0:08:03 | 0:08:05 | |
-If this is legalised, -the industry will benefit. | 0:08:06 | 0:08:10 | |
-You hear whispers -that some people are at it... | 0:08:12 | 0:08:16 | |
-..but you don't know if it's true. | 0:08:16 | 0:08:19 | |
-If there are whispers out there... | 0:08:19 | 0:08:22 | |
-..they'll soon be heard -by people in legal circles. | 0:08:22 | 0:08:25 | |
-Not many people -have been punished for doing it yet. | 0:08:26 | 0:08:29 | |
-Back at the Sunday lunch, -I speak to Carmelo Gale. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:36 | |
-He wants to show me -a collection of different meats. | 0:08:37 | 0:08:40 | |
-Some are legal while others aren't. | 0:08:41 | 0:08:43 | |
-He's been prosecuted many times -for crime linked to smokies. | 0:08:43 | 0:08:48 | |
-He says the trouble he's had with -the law has affected his health. | 0:08:48 | 0:08:53 | |
-How do you feel -after being imprisoned... | 0:08:55 | 0:08:57 | |
-..for something you feel -is quite legitimate? | 0:08:58 | 0:09:01 | |
-How does that make you feel? | 0:09:01 | 0:09:03 | |
-I feel bad about it. It's not only -affected me but my family too. | 0:09:03 | 0:09:08 | |
-Sometimes, I call myself -the sacrificed lamb. | 0:09:10 | 0:09:15 | |
-That day, -he was under a cloud again. | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
-He was waiting to be tried -for a seventh time. | 0:09:19 | 0:09:22 | |
-He faced accusations of running an -illegal abattoir to produce smokies. | 0:09:22 | 0:09:27 | |
-You're in court later this year. | 0:09:28 | 0:09:30 | |
-Tell me more about that case. | 0:09:31 | 0:09:33 | |
-I'm not going to tell you anything. | 0:09:33 | 0:09:35 | |
-There's no point talking about it. -You can speak to me after it. | 0:09:35 | 0:09:39 | |
-Carmelo Gale isn't the only farmer -in West Wales... | 0:09:42 | 0:09:46 | |
-..who's been imprisoned -for producing smokies. | 0:09:46 | 0:09:50 | |
-In 2005, in Elgin Sheriff Court... | 0:09:51 | 0:09:55 | |
-..Julian Jones was imprisoned -for six months... | 0:09:55 | 0:09:59 | |
-..for running an illegal abattoir. | 0:09:59 | 0:10:02 | |
-Smokies were on his menu too. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:04 | |
-By 2010, he was back in Wales. | 0:10:06 | 0:10:08 | |
-He was caught near Newport... | 0:10:08 | 0:10:10 | |
-..transporting smokies in a van -on the M4. | 0:10:10 | 0:10:13 | |
-He was given another 15 months -in prison... | 0:10:14 | 0:10:16 | |
-..for producing meat -unfit for human consumption. | 0:10:16 | 0:10:20 | |
-Two years ago, the Welsh speaker -was due back in court once more. | 0:10:20 | 0:10:25 | |
-Here, in Swansea Crown Court... | 0:10:27 | 0:10:30 | |
-..Julian Jones and Robert Gordon -Thomas, also of West Wales... | 0:10:30 | 0:10:34 | |
-..faced accusations of producing -smokies on Jones' family farm... | 0:10:35 | 0:10:39 | |
-..Bangor Teifi, near Llandysul. | 0:10:39 | 0:10:42 | |
-Thomas was sent to prison for -28 weeks, suspended for two years... | 0:10:42 | 0:10:46 | |
-..and given 200 hours of community -service for his part in the deceit. | 0:10:46 | 0:10:51 | |
-Jones didn't appear in court. | 0:10:52 | 0:10:54 | |
-He'd absconded. To this day, -no-one's quite sure where he is. | 0:10:54 | 0:11:01 | |
-. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:02 | |
-Subtitles | 0:11:04 | 0:11:04 | |
-Subtitles - -Subtitles | 0:11:04 | 0:11:06 | |
-City Road, Cardiff. | 0:11:13 | 0:11:15 | |
-I'm on my way to a shop -that sells goods... | 0:11:16 | 0:11:19 | |
-..to the city's African community. | 0:11:19 | 0:11:22 | |
-At the back of the shop, owner -Janet Symmons sells unusual meats. | 0:11:25 | 0:11:30 | |
-There's the actual leg. -One leg of a cow. | 0:11:33 | 0:11:36 | |
-It doesn't look -the tastiest thing in the world. | 0:11:36 | 0:11:40 | |
-I agree, but it's very, very tasty -when it's cooked. | 0:11:40 | 0:11:44 | |
-The way we prepare it -is very mouth-watering. | 0:11:45 | 0:11:49 | |
-One thing she can't sell is smokies. | 0:11:51 | 0:11:55 | |
-She says the meat -is in high demand... | 0:11:55 | 0:11:58 | |
-..but she has to -disappoint customers... | 0:11:58 | 0:12:01 | |
-..because selling it is illegal. | 0:12:02 | 0:12:05 | |
-People are making money. | 0:12:07 | 0:12:09 | |
-Why can't the Welsh farmers -make money? | 0:12:09 | 0:12:12 | |
-Why can't they be slaughtered -in a proper clean abattoir... | 0:12:12 | 0:12:17 | |
-..which will benefit -the whole country and benefit us? | 0:12:17 | 0:12:21 | |
-She has a petition in her shop -to try and reverse the EU law... | 0:12:22 | 0:12:27 | |
-..and legalise smokies... | 0:12:28 | 0:12:30 | |
-..to stop people relying -on the black market for smokies. | 0:12:30 | 0:12:35 | |
-We are having to buy this meat -underground. | 0:12:37 | 0:12:40 | |
-We don't know where they are being -slaughtered... | 0:12:40 | 0:12:44 | |
-..how long ago the animal -was injected. | 0:12:44 | 0:12:47 | |
-We don't know anything. -It's more dangerous. | 0:12:47 | 0:12:50 | |
-But because that is what -we're used to... | 0:12:51 | 0:12:54 | |
-..we are prepared to take some risk. | 0:12:54 | 0:12:57 | |
-There's been a question mark... | 0:12:59 | 0:13:01 | |
-..over the safety of smokies -for over a decade. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:04 | |
-I visited Liverpool University -to meet an expert... | 0:13:07 | 0:13:11 | |
-..in public health and food hygiene. | 0:13:11 | 0:13:14 | |
-The Food Standards Agency -commissioned him... | 0:13:14 | 0:13:17 | |
-..to study the safety of smokies. | 0:13:17 | 0:13:19 | |
-What we have here is E.coli 0157. | 0:13:19 | 0:13:23 | |
-It is commonly found -on sheep's skin. | 0:13:23 | 0:13:26 | |
-Then we have here salmonella. | 0:13:26 | 0:13:28 | |
-Again, it is inhabitant -on the sheep's skin. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:33 | |
-It is found on 8-10% of sheep's skin -produced in the UK. | 0:13:33 | 0:13:40 | |
-Cooking meat -usually kills bacteria... | 0:13:40 | 0:13:42 | |
-..but this scientist claims that -the process of creating smokies... | 0:13:43 | 0:13:47 | |
-..isn't enough to prevent E.coli -and salmonella. | 0:13:48 | 0:13:51 | |
-The burning is non-uniform and these -pathogens can survive the process. | 0:13:52 | 0:13:57 | |
-They can end up being -in the final product... | 0:13:57 | 0:14:00 | |
-..and lead to severe, sometimes -fatal, human health consequences. | 0:14:00 | 0:14:05 | |
-In 2006, -studies by Bristol University... | 0:14:05 | 0:14:09 | |
-..claimed that smokies could -be produced that were safe to eat. | 0:14:09 | 0:14:14 | |
-Dr Antic's report in 2015 -claimed more work was needed... | 0:14:15 | 0:14:18 | |
-..before a final conclusion -could be reached. | 0:14:19 | 0:14:21 | |
-Only when we gather -sufficient scientific evidence... | 0:14:21 | 0:14:26 | |
-..we can do -a proper risk-assessment. | 0:14:26 | 0:14:29 | |
-Then, we can come up -with the final conclusion... | 0:14:29 | 0:14:33 | |
-..whether the production of -smoke skin on sheep meat is safe. | 0:14:33 | 0:14:37 | |
-It is comparable -to what we have now... | 0:14:38 | 0:14:40 | |
-..conventional skin-off -sheep meat production. | 0:14:41 | 0:14:44 | |
-A month after Liverpool University's -report was published... | 0:14:47 | 0:14:52 | |
-..Trading Standards officers visited -Bangor Teifi farm near Llandysul. | 0:14:52 | 0:14:56 | |
-This is Carmelo Gale's farm. | 0:14:57 | 0:14:59 | |
-There was evidence that someone -had been producing smokies there. | 0:15:01 | 0:15:06 | |
-Officers discovered -piles of animal remains... | 0:15:07 | 0:15:10 | |
-..blood seeping into the soil... | 0:15:11 | 0:15:14 | |
-..and burnt sheep's heads. | 0:15:14 | 0:15:16 | |
-One of the officers who visited -the farm was Rhys Harries. | 0:15:16 | 0:15:20 | |
-As you can see in the pictures... | 0:15:21 | 0:15:23 | |
-..there are a lot of footprints -with red in them. | 0:15:23 | 0:15:27 | |
-The sheep is hung, slaughtered -and is bled out onto the mud below. | 0:15:27 | 0:15:32 | |
-There's buckets of heads, etc. | 0:15:32 | 0:15:34 | |
-This is where -they are being slaughtered. | 0:15:35 | 0:15:38 | |
-It's not -a very hygienic environment. | 0:15:39 | 0:15:42 | |
-Rhys Harries was sent to the farm -after police stopped this van... | 0:15:43 | 0:15:47 | |
-..on the M4 near Swansea. | 0:15:47 | 0:15:49 | |
-Carmelo Gale had rented the van. -50 smokies were inside. | 0:15:49 | 0:15:55 | |
-I don't think anyone would be happy -to eat meat from this environment. | 0:15:55 | 0:15:59 | |
-If anyone had seen that the meat -was produced in this manner... | 0:15:59 | 0:16:03 | |
-..no-one would want to eat it. | 0:16:03 | 0:16:05 | |
-In November 2017, -Carmelo Gale pleaded guilty... | 0:16:06 | 0:16:10 | |
-..to charges -of running an illegal abattoir... | 0:16:10 | 0:16:14 | |
-..and other charges -relating to food hygiene. | 0:16:14 | 0:16:17 | |
-He was sentenced in Swansea Crown -Court to eight months of prison... | 0:16:17 | 0:16:22 | |
-..suspended for two years. | 0:16:22 | 0:16:24 | |
-Since his court case, I've spoken -to Carmelo Gale many times... | 0:16:25 | 0:16:29 | |
-..and asked him -for another interview. | 0:16:30 | 0:16:32 | |
-He says he's ready -to speak to us again... | 0:16:33 | 0:16:36 | |
-..but he hasn't confirmed -a time or location. | 0:16:36 | 0:16:39 | |
-This morning, he said -he was free and willing to meet me. | 0:16:40 | 0:16:43 | |
-I'm on my way to his friend's farm -in South Ceredigion. | 0:16:44 | 0:16:48 | |
-Smokies can sell for 200 -on the black market. | 0:16:51 | 0:16:54 | |
-I wanted to ask if profit or the -rights of the African community... | 0:16:55 | 0:16:59 | |
-..was behind Carmelo Gale's -interest in smokies. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:04 | |
-The truth is you wanted -to make some more money. | 0:17:04 | 0:17:08 | |
-You had a market -that wanted this produce. | 0:17:08 | 0:17:11 | |
-You broke rules -and ignored regulations... | 0:17:12 | 0:17:15 | |
-..to give them the food illegally. | 0:17:15 | 0:17:18 | |
-I'll tell you one thing, -I have no money. | 0:17:18 | 0:17:21 | |
-I've almost become -a bankrupt business. | 0:17:21 | 0:17:24 | |
-Don't tell me it's for profit. -It's not. | 0:17:24 | 0:17:27 | |
-Have you seen this? -This was your farm. | 0:17:27 | 0:17:31 | |
-What's your response to that? | 0:17:34 | 0:17:35 | |
-What's your response to that? - -No comment. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:37 | |
-Aren't you ashamed in any way -that you're giving people food... | 0:17:37 | 0:17:42 | |
-..after slaughtering animals -in those conditions? | 0:17:42 | 0:17:46 | |
-I have nothing to say about it. | 0:17:46 | 0:17:48 | |
-Don't you want to say sorry? | 0:17:48 | 0:17:50 | |
-Do you want to apologise to people -who ate food produced in that way? | 0:17:51 | 0:17:56 | |
-Everyone knows what they eat. -Everything is slaughtered. | 0:17:56 | 0:18:00 | |
-Everyone knows how it's done. | 0:18:00 | 0:18:02 | |
-You portray yourself as a man -looking after people's rights. | 0:18:03 | 0:18:06 | |
-Yes. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:08 | |
-When you see those photos... | 0:18:08 | 0:18:11 | |
-..if you wanted -to be a freedom fighter... | 0:18:11 | 0:18:14 | |
-..shouldn't you do things properly -and as hygienically as possible? | 0:18:14 | 0:18:19 | |
-That would get people on your side. | 0:18:19 | 0:18:21 | |
-There was nothing dirty -about that meat. | 0:18:21 | 0:18:23 | |
-Nothing dirty. Come on, Carmelo. | 0:18:24 | 0:18:26 | |
-We have a right to slaughter -our animals on the farm. | 0:18:27 | 0:18:30 | |
-They're killed the same way -wherever you go. | 0:18:30 | 0:18:33 | |
-What about the way you transported -animals, in the back of a van? | 0:18:34 | 0:18:38 | |
-That's no way to transport meat. | 0:18:38 | 0:18:41 | |
-I'm not saying a thing. -Everyone knew what it was. | 0:18:41 | 0:18:45 | |
-He was happy to give his views -on legalisation... | 0:18:46 | 0:18:49 | |
-..but he wasn't happy -with my line of questioning. | 0:18:49 | 0:18:54 | |
-You don't give a fuck. -You're out of order. | 0:18:56 | 0:18:59 | |
-My son and daughter begged me -not to come here today. | 0:19:00 | 0:19:03 | |
-They begged me because you were -going to drop me in the shit. | 0:19:03 | 0:19:07 | |
-I also wanted to find Julian Jones, -the other West Wales farmer... | 0:19:09 | 0:19:13 | |
-..who has a long history -of producing and providing smokies. | 0:19:14 | 0:19:18 | |
-He left the country in 2015 -to avoid prosecution. | 0:19:18 | 0:19:22 | |
-On a website for ex-pats, -we found a Julian from Wales... | 0:19:23 | 0:19:30 | |
-..now living in Cambodia. | 0:19:30 | 0:19:32 | |
-He was using a profile -named J smokies. | 0:19:32 | 0:19:35 | |
-He was searching for land to rent -in Sihanoukville. | 0:19:36 | 0:19:38 | |
-He also wanted to buy goats. | 0:19:39 | 0:19:41 | |
-When we spoke to one man who said -he was in contact with him... | 0:19:41 | 0:19:45 | |
-..he said that Julian -was short of cash. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:49 | |
-He would only speak to us for a fee. | 0:19:50 | 0:19:52 | |
-We weren't ready to strike -a bargain with him. | 0:19:52 | 0:19:56 | |
-I visited the farm where his mother -and wife still live near Llandysul. | 0:19:57 | 0:20:02 | |
-They weren't ready -to speak to us on camera. | 0:20:02 | 0:20:05 | |
-They said they weren't -in touch with him. | 0:20:05 | 0:20:08 | |
-They hadn't heard from him -in two years. | 0:20:08 | 0:20:11 | |
-The case against him is still open. | 0:20:11 | 0:20:13 | |
-Some more respectable faces support -the campaign to legalise smokies. | 0:20:23 | 0:20:29 | |
-With Britain leaving the EU... | 0:20:29 | 0:20:31 | |
-..sheep farmer and MP Glyn Davies... | 0:20:32 | 0:20:34 | |
-..can see an opportunity -for Welsh farmers. | 0:20:35 | 0:20:38 | |
-We're in the middle -of leaving the EU. | 0:20:38 | 0:20:41 | |
-We can ensure that producing -smokies is done safely. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:49 | |
-I think we can do that. -There's a good market. | 0:20:51 | 0:20:55 | |
-A lot of people moved to Britain -from West Africa. They want smokies. | 0:20:55 | 0:21:00 | |
-Farmers in Wales keep older sheep. -They want to sell them. | 0:21:00 | 0:21:04 | |
-It's a missed opportunity. | 0:21:04 | 0:21:07 | |
-The politician accepts -that legalisation... | 0:21:07 | 0:21:10 | |
-..will be low on the -Brexit minister's priority list... | 0:21:10 | 0:21:14 | |
-..but he will push the case -on behalf of Welsh farmers. | 0:21:14 | 0:21:18 | |
-It's important to me. -I represent Mid Wales. | 0:21:18 | 0:21:21 | |
-I've worked throughout my life -in the sheep sector. | 0:21:21 | 0:21:26 | |
-I understand how important this is. | 0:21:26 | 0:21:30 | |
-It's quite a responsibility for me -to raise this point in Westminster. | 0:21:30 | 0:21:35 | |
-That's what I'm doing. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:36 | |
-Back in Cardiff, -Janet Symmons continues to work... | 0:21:37 | 0:21:40 | |
-..on behalf of the African community -to legalise smokies. | 0:21:41 | 0:21:44 | |
-For this business woman... | 0:21:44 | 0:21:46 | |
-..the battle goes deeper than -winning the right to eat the meat. | 0:21:47 | 0:21:51 | |
-We feel that our taste -is being suppressed. | 0:21:51 | 0:21:58 | |
-They're giving the kosher -and they're giving the halal... | 0:21:58 | 0:22:02 | |
-..but we are not supposed -to have ours. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:04 | |
-Why? We are also here -in this country. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:08 | |
-One man who considers himself -a friend of the African community... | 0:22:08 | 0:22:12 | |
-..is Carmelo Gale. | 0:22:12 | 0:22:14 | |
-He's been prosecuted seven times -for crimes linked to smokies... | 0:22:14 | 0:22:18 | |
-..but he doesn't consider himself -a criminal. | 0:22:18 | 0:22:21 | |
-You talk about all the bad things -but none of the good things. | 0:22:21 | 0:22:25 | |
-You've had the chance -to talk about those. | 0:22:25 | 0:22:28 | |
-We also have to ask -about the bad things. | 0:22:28 | 0:22:31 | |
-You ask more about the bad things -than the good things. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:36 | |
-I find it hard to understand. -You're not helping yourself. | 0:22:37 | 0:22:40 | |
-I'm not going to talk much more. | 0:22:40 | 0:22:43 | |
-Talk about the benefits. -People want to eat it. | 0:22:43 | 0:22:46 | |
-Farmers are suffering... | 0:22:47 | 0:22:48 | |
-..because they're not paid enough -for their produce. | 0:22:48 | 0:22:52 | |
-In his recent court case... | 0:22:52 | 0:22:54 | |
-..his solicitor said -that Gale was now separated... | 0:22:54 | 0:22:58 | |
-..living in a caravan -and suffering with depression. | 0:22:58 | 0:23:02 | |
-At 61 years of age, -he says the years... | 0:23:02 | 0:23:05 | |
-..of living -in the world of smokies are over. | 0:23:05 | 0:23:08 | |
-It took over my life. | 0:23:08 | 0:23:10 | |
-It affected me, my family -told me to leave it alone. | 0:23:10 | 0:23:15 | |
-I was too much of a donkey. | 0:23:15 | 0:23:17 | |
-Because I was such a donkey, -it affected my health. | 0:23:18 | 0:23:22 | |
-The fight had taken over -my life and my mind. | 0:23:22 | 0:23:26 | |
-But I still believe strongly in it. | 0:23:27 | 0:23:29 | |
-S4C Subtitles by Adnod Cyf. | 0:23:44 | 0:23:46 | |
-. | 0:23:46 | 0:23:47 |