09/05/2017 First Minister's Questions


09/05/2017

Full coverage of AM's questions to the first minister from the Senedd in Cardiff Bay.


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Transcript


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Good afternoon and welcome once again to our weekly coverage of

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questions to the First Minister. Carwyn Jones is expected to be asked

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about Brexit, he is most weeks, debts owed to local authorities and

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when children will be taught computer code. You can follow all

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the latest on: Finau, business is under way, let's take a look at

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today's questions to the First Minister.

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I call the National Assembly to order. The first item on our agenda

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this afternoon is questions to the First Minister and the first

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question is from Lee Waters. When will every child in Wales be taught

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how to call? We will ensure that children in Wales have the skills

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they need for the future by developing code skills in our young

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people. We will be making a statement in June. My daughter was

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nine yesterday and she asked for a raspberry pie, which is not a fruit

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-based pudding but in fact as you know, a small computer manufactured

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in your constituency. In your area. When she leaves

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education, the ability to programme computers will be an essential

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skill, from everything to programming a manufacturing line to

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designing the next innovation but the chief inspector of schools found

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that standards are strong in only a very few schools and not enough

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understand the potential of digital learning to aid teaching and

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learning. Teaching children code should not rely on the enthusiasm of

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the odd teacher or the parents ability to buy a raspberry pie. It

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must be a key part of what schools do. The curriculum will of course

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address this but more than 150,000 young people will graduate without

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this basic skill before that is fully commented. Would you consider

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what interim measures you can put in place to ensure that every child in

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Wales gets the opportunity to learn computer coding as soon as possible?

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I will wish your daughter happy birthday for yesterday. We want to

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encourage coding skills. We fast-track the publishing of the

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framework. Many schools have already introduced

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coding skills into the classroom. We have invested 670,000 to the techno

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camp and teach programmes to deliver workshops to pupils and teachers in

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secondary schools in Wales and we have made a commitment to expand

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coding clubs in every school in Wales before the announcement next

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month. We do need to be part of the coding revolution. It is important

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our young people learn the skills but one of the problems they have

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got is being able to do homework in relation to coding because there is

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inadequate access to the superfast Cymru broadband. You made a

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commitment in your manifesto which gave a pledge to roll out broadband

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to all residential premises and businesses by 2015. That was a

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broken promise. Don't you think it's about time you delivered on that

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promise? Our promises to deliver to 96% of promises by the summer of

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this year, in contrast to his party who made no promises at all.

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If we have the money to be spending on IT, shouldn't that money be

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better spent on literacy and numeracy in schools, which is being

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failing for a while? I see that 1951 has dawned in the corner over there.

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Of course literally and numeracy are important but so are IT skills. We

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know as members here that actually we could not function properly in

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our jobs if we did not have at least basic IT skills. It is important our

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children have better I skills compared to other children in the

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world. Will the First Minister provide

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details of the oversight that Welsh Government has over debts owed to

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local authorities by third parties? Each local authorities responsible

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for the collection of its debts as part of its own effective financial

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management process. I am disappointed with that answer. I

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thought you would like to know what you're local authorities are not

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recovering at a time when they are claiming austerity is depriving them

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of any money. I am sure you will congratulate the newly elected

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councillors at Bridgend Council and hopefully the new council will be

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able to reply to requests within the statutory time limit so I can ask

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questions like this with full information to hand. Can you tell me

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how much I'm claimed the debt is owed to local authorities and the

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reasons that local authorities give you for not pursuing them? I can say

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that 2015-16, they collected 97% of council tax build, the highest level

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since this tax was introduced. They have mitigated levels rising in

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council tax debt in Wales. We know it is lower than in England and the

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Tory government there. Collection rates are now at 97.2%. They Alaw

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Werin England. -- they are lower in England.

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Would the First Minister recognised Welsh Labour's victory in Caerphilly

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county borough is a testament to Keith 's leadership, his sound

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financial management and a lifetime in public service? Could I join the

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membrane expressing my regards of course to Councillor Keith Reynolds'

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family. The illness was short. It was unexpected. And of course, I am

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sure that people in Caerphilly would recognise the work that he and so

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many others did over the course of the last five years. Would the First

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Minister agree that the third party that owes the biggest debt of all to

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Welsh local authorities is the Westminster government? It has cut

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over a third in spending on adult care since 2011, which has had

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severe financial consequences in Wales and obviously terrible

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consequences in terms of the human cost to the elderly, the sick and

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the disabled. If this callous Conservative government is

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re-elected as seems increasingly likely on June the 8th, we need a

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plan to defend Wales. Where is it? What is it? Who is going to lead it?

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On the evidence from yesterday, we are in a dire position if it is

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going to be him. According to you lastly, was him. We will happily

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stand up for Wales. We do not want to see a future Conservative

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government walk all over Wales and we have stood up for our people as

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the election last year showed and indeed in 2011. He is right to point

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out the cuts that have taken place. We have lost the equivalent of the

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entire budget for health in the whole of North Wales. Despite that,

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we have maintained spending and maintain health and social at 6% per

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head higher than in England, showing a Welsh Labour government delivering

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for the people of Wales in the face of Tory austerity. We now call on

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the party leaders to question the First Minister. The leader of Plaid

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Cymru, Leanne Wood. You launched your election campaign yesterday

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talking a lot about unity but you could not bring yourself to utter

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the name of your reader. Is Jeremy Corbyn still your candidate for

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Prime Minister? Yes. Yesterday you had a chance to put Wales on the

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critical landscape but instead and I am sure that Theresa May will be

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breathing a huge site -- huge sigh of relief -- political landscape.

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Three of your major pledges are defiled and they were promises made

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before last year 's election and a fourth pledge on policing could have

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been devolved if only Labour MPs had not had their own way. The next few

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years will define the future of Wales and the UK. You should have

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made clear Welsh demands to give Wales a voice, to defend Wales, but

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you failed to do that. We will now have to rely on Plaid Cymru MPs...

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OK, calm down. Let the question continue. We will now have to rip --

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rely upon Plaid Cymru MPs to best set out how we can defend Wales. Why

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did you choose to let Theresa May off the hook? They don't like the

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slogan standing up for Wales. That is the one of the things I have

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noticed. We are proud of our pledges and she will find more to come in

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the manifesto that will be pledged in due course. They were promises

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you pledged before the last election. You should have already

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delivered on some of those pledges. The reality is you have pushed your

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leader out of this campaign. You have ever came out of this campaign

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because you know that Labour cannot win. You want to make the election

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about your record and the record of the Welsh Government and we all know

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why you are doing that and that is why most of your recycled election

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pledges are within default context. Therefore then if you lose this

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election in Wales as many polls are suggesting that you might, does that

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mean it will be a verdict on you, will it be your fault, and if you

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become the first Labour leader to work loose Wales, the first time in

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100 years, will you be prepared to take responsibility or can we expect

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you yet again to blame somebody else? Well, we had all this last

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year and we saw the result. People trust us to stand up for Wales. We

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saw Plaid Cymru 's results in the local elections, going backwards in

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Caerphilly. Only last week in this chamber, the member for South Wales

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Central was claiming he would be the leader of Cardiff Council. And they

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won three seats. He is not here. I recognise that. He is claiming that

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Cardiff West was a great victory for Plaid Cymru. Well, with three seats

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on labour on 12, I am happy to concede that victory to then if that

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is their definition of it. We have an election to fight. We have put

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our policies forward to the people of Wales. We will be standing up for

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Wales. Thank you, presiding officer. Last

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week in the news, First Minister, there were some serious concerns

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raised about the progress being made on the reporting system around the

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disaster, I would call it, where the previous report talked about being

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treated like animals and other shocking renovations and families

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showing real concern over the progress that the information is

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coming back to them to satisfy themselves over the way their family

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and loved ones will looked after and there has been a call for the

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mortality report to be brought forward because Betsi Cadwaladr have

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identified that some premature deaths could be associated to the

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levels of care that were around the Tawel Fan unit at Ysbyty Glangwili

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damp the head of the committee health counselling North Wales has

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called for this report to be made available because it has been

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finished. Will you commit to making that report available, given that

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Betsi Cadwaladr are in special measures and you are responsible for

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that health board? We will give full consideration to that on the basis

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that we want to be as open and transparent as possible and that is

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what people would expect. Consideration will be given to

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releasing the report went it is appropriate. The head of the

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community health council believes it is appropriate. It may stop any of

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this bad practice appearing any liberal elsewhere, in his words. You

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are spending ?5 million a year of additionally running Betsi Cadwaladr

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because it is in special measures. You are responsible when families

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and concerned clinicians want to see this data so they can fully

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understand what went on within that unit. Why on earth are you not

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allowing that report to come forward? Because it would add a huge

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amount of comfort to the families and to the individuals who have

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heard such horrific stories over the care within that unit and in

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particular I draw your attention to the fact that it has already been

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said, patients were treated like animals. Well, the report as I

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understand it is with the independent overseer and that the

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right time, consideration will be given to releasing the report. It is

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important that as much information is released as possible so that

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lessons can be learned. I'm really disappointed you're not

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giving firm indications of when that report will be available. This is a

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politician saying the report should be available but the head of the

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community council along with family members and clinicians. I would be

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grateful, if you are not in a position to give the timeline today,

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that you would indicate that you would write to me, to allow me to

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have sight of the Timeline that you, as the Government, are working to. I

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think that's the very least someone could expect, given the concerns

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raised last week. But also I would ask you to confirm, are you

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satisfied with the level of debt capacity in North Wales for mental

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health patients, because it has come to our attention that there is the

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sofa system that is working in North Wales, where a bed isn't available

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in mental health, people are put on sofas to try and meet the targets.

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That cannot be right. It is putting vulnerable people in a position

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where they could be exploited, and how can anyone feel that a sofa

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system meets the requirement of providing safe and secure bed

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capacity in the North Wales health board area? If the leader of the

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Welsh Conservatives has evidence of the sofa system, we would like to

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see that evidence. I will of course write to him along the lines he has

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asked for, providing him with more information regarding the timescale,

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in terms of any release of the report. Ukip group, Neil Hamilton. A

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policy of increasing income taxes people earning as low as ?11,000 a

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year. The Labour Party nationally is apparently going to stand on a

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policy of increasing the top rate of income tax from 45p to 50p. Does he

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agree with the Shadow Chancellor that we have a great deal to learn

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from Karl Marx and does he feel raising the top rate of tax is

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likely to raise more money? Yes I do. I think that raising the top

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rate of tax will raise more money. I don't think we have much to learn

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from Bass capita, those who have read it and understand what it says.

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We would stand on a platform of ensuring that those who can afford

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to pay a little bit more, do pay a little bit more, in order to ensure

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we have the public services people would expect. Am I to take it from

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that response is now the policy of the Welsh Government when taxpayers

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are devolved, to us in this assembly, to follow the Labour

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Party's manifesto nationally of increasing top rates of tax in

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Wales? The evidence from the last time that this happened, in 2013,

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was that reducing the tax rate from 50p to the current 45p led to an

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enormous increase in revenue, about ?8 billion. So it seems to be rather

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counter-productive to stand on a policy which increases tax rates and

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reduces revenue, makes it less likely that the Welsh Government

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would be able to put more money into the national health Service. As far

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as the Welsh rate of income tax is concerned, we have already pledged

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we will not increase the rate of income tax in the course of this

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assembly. I'm delighted to hear that. Whether that means the First

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Minister accepts that raising rates doesn't necessarily lead to

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increasing revenue. It offers Wales a great opportunity to make our

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country into a kind of tax haven within the United Kingdom which

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would help us, which would help us to reverse the economic trends of

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many, many decades in Wales and give us a significant advantage, in the

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same way as Southern Ireland has used differential rates of

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corporation tax to kick-start the Celtic Tiger economy, which was very

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successful in that country. He raises an interesting point about

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corporation tax. There are no proposals to devolved corporation

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tax. Tax havens tend to have poor public services, like health

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services, because they cannot raise money to pay for public services. I

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don't think the future of Wales lies in being a replica of the British

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Virgin Islands or the Channel Islands. We have a different model,

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the Channel Islands don't have a health service along the model we

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would understand. Getting the balance right between revenue and

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expenditure on public services to the level people would expect is of

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course a matter for governments to balance. Question three, Julie

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Morgan. What is the First Minister's assessment of the first stage of

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negotiations with the EU? Posturing on both sides. I hope that comes to

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an end pretty soon so that the task of ensuring a sensible Brexit is

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taken forward. I thank the First Minister for that response. Although

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the UK Treasury has guaranteed funding for European structural

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projects before the UK leads the EU, does the First Minister agree it is

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absolutely crucial but after the UK leads the EU, the total sum of money

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that has been available in the past for these projects in Wales is added

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to the Welsh budget and is under the control of the Welsh budget?

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I do. First of all, we know that structural funds are guaranteed for

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2020. Farming subsidies also but nothing beyond. Nothing at all in

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terms of support beyond that time. I have an easy answer, that is quite

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simply for the pot of money to be made available, as it is now, for it

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to be distributed as it is now, to provide the certainty that

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structural funds provide so far, and particular we certainly for our

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farmers. It's a good way of ensuring farmers don't have to suffer as a

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result of Brexit. Although Jeremy Corbyn has joined

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the Conservatives in saying he wants Brexit to deliver a fairer society

:20:44.:20:49.

and upgraded economy, we realise there are tough negotiations ahead.

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How do you respond to his statement at the issue of Brexit is set up? It

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is settled because Britain is leaving the EU and that question has

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already been answered. What I don't see if any semblance of any kind of

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plan from the UK Government, nothing. I have sat in meetings,

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I've asked and try to see what the plan is. There isn't one. Last

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Thursday we saw panic on the part of the Prime Minister, when she started

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to worry about what Brexit would mean for ordinary working people.

:21:20.:21:22.

She is right to be concerned about that. You cannot say one hand no

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deal is better than a bad deal and say, but we need a deal to make sure

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we don't see an economic downturn. What is hugely important is the bass

:21:30.:21:34.

string of last week goes, that we have ideas as to what Brexit might

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look like. She was a remain, let's not forget that. She is someone like

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me who has accepted the result and it's hugely important for those who

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have ideas to work together to take those ideas forward, because we've

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had nothing at all in terms of ideas for those who campaign for Brexit.

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Will the First Minister agree with me the kind of language being used

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by the Prime Minister to attack our friends and neighbours on the

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continent helps nobody, in terms of the negotiations that are to come?

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And it doesn't just tarnish Theresa May's government but threatens to

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tarnish the reputation of Wales. The First Minister is asking for editing

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going forward to mitigate the potential of tarnishing Wales' good

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name around the world because of the language used by Theresa May. Will

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he commit to implement a new international policy for Wales,

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which would include designating a member of his Cabinet as the

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external affairs Cabinet member for country in order to rebuild the

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bridge is Westminster are so determined to burn down?

:22:34.:22:38.

The language was undiplomatic. I think both sides were guilty of

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posturing, actually. That needs to come to an end. This is not war,

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nobody has invaded anybody else. We're not to face each other, stare

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at each other across the Channel or the Irish border. We want to be

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friends and allies and trading partners at the end of the day. We

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have started to look at our international policy, in particular

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where we need to beef up our international presence. We know we

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have been successful at the Qatar Airways, that is another example of

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where the Welsh Government has been able to support the airports, to get

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that route. The next age buses to make sure we look to having a

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sufficient presence and an increased presence in those markets that will

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become important to us. Will the First Minister make a statement on

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the development of district shopping centres in cities. We have existing

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shopping centres as sustainable centres for local development. We

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need strategies and policies to maintain these commercial centres.

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There are other district shopping centres in Swansea and Wales. I

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would like to stress the importance of shopping centres. We have lost

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banks, public houses and shopping diversity. Will the First Minister

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agree with me there should be a major bank in each one of these

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district shopping centres? Ideally we would like bank branches within

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shopping centres that these are ultimately matters for the banks. It

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is important businesses and customers have the ability to pay in

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money and make cash withdrawals within their communities. Where the

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banks are failing to accommodate this, the Post Office is serving an

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important role, with 95% of bank customers having access to their

:24:32.:24:34.

accounts by the Post Office. What I am more concerned about is closing

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Post Office branches, because that would lose the only banking function

:24:40.:24:46.

that remains in many communities. First Minister, footfall has

:24:47.:24:54.

decreased in Welsh high streets to out-of-town shopping centres, which

:24:55.:24:58.

has increased 4.6% according to information from last year. The

:24:59.:25:02.

Welsh retail Consortium has called for Local Authorities and retailers

:25:03.:25:08.

to work together to market a high-street identity. Can I ask, and

:25:09.:25:15.

also they want Local Authorities to have more flexibility in regards to

:25:16.:25:19.

the planning system. Can I ask you, how do you think the planning system

:25:20.:25:24.

can help to be more supportive to high streets?

:25:25.:25:29.

Well, we know that it's hugely important Local Authorities develop

:25:30.:25:36.

their identities and look how they assist existing retail centres. It

:25:37.:25:39.

is hugely important for town centre is to develop their own identity.

:25:40.:25:43.

Having tabs on the website. If I were to go to a town in Wales, can I

:25:44.:25:48.

find out what's that? Is there a website, have the traders got their

:25:49.:25:51.

own website question what the reason people go to out-of-town shopping

:25:52.:25:55.

centres is convenience, they are open, particularly on Sundays when

:25:56.:25:58.

most people these days tend to shop. It is hugely important high-street

:25:59.:26:08.

retailers look at that as well. People are shopping at six and seven

:26:09.:26:11.

o'clock at night, on Sundays when a lot of high streets are closed.

:26:12.:26:14.

Needs to be some flexibility with traders, to make sure they are lying

:26:15.:26:17.

their opening hours. There is a limit to what they can do a sole

:26:18.:26:22.

traders, but align their hours with the work patterns people have now,

:26:23.:26:26.

not the work patterns people had 30 or 40 years ago. Hugely important

:26:27.:26:32.

room is given to more living accommodation and more office space

:26:33.:26:36.

as well. You have the office workers and footfall during the day to help

:26:37.:26:46.

the retailers. Mike Edgers mentioned the closure of high-street banks and

:26:47.:26:50.

you mentioned post offices. Another important part of the district

:26:51.:26:55.

shopping areas is sometimes the local pub. I wondered, was there any

:26:56.:26:59.

update regarding the Welsh Government's talks about how to

:27:00.:27:10.

protect community pubs? It is a tricky issue. We know that in

:27:11.:27:14.

planning terms it's not difficult to change the use of a pub to another

:27:15.:27:20.

commercial or retail use. That said, quite often pubs are not sold and

:27:21.:27:24.

they become derelict because they are empty after a while. This was

:27:25.:27:29.

not an easy issue to resolve. We note there are still too many pubs,

:27:30.:27:35.

given people's current social habits to stop what is hugely important is

:27:36.:27:40.

to be able to work with the market leading pubs, there are many of

:27:41.:27:44.

them, some big sunspot, to provide a good example to others. But

:27:45.:27:49.

ultimately, it's a question of ensuring that the pubs are able to

:27:50.:27:57.

offer the widest range of services. Some double up as shops. Looking at

:27:58.:28:04.

ways in which pubs can also act as business hubs in communities, if a

:28:05.:28:08.

local shop or a post office, that's one way forward, to ensure pubs have

:28:09.:28:15.

a viable future. Will the First Minister outline the actions the

:28:16.:28:20.

Welsh government is taking to improve the mental health of people

:28:21.:28:24.

in Wales? We have a mental health strategy on the 2016-19 delivery

:28:25.:28:30.

plans sets out our priorities for improving the mental health and

:28:31.:28:33.

well-being of people of Wales. Two weeks ago I was proud to speak

:28:34.:28:36.

alongside the Health Secretary at the first year celebrations of a

:28:37.:28:40.

community project which seeks to improve emotional well-being through

:28:41.:28:44.

mindfulness and stress control courses. It has helped nearly 2000

:28:45.:28:50.

people during their first year and mental health awareness week seems

:28:51.:28:53.

an appropriate time to celebrate the success. With one in four people

:28:54.:28:57.

experiencing mental health issues, what best practice can the Welsh

:28:58.:29:01.

Government draw from and promote among other health boards across

:29:02.:29:07.

Wales? Value steps is an innovative approach, improving mental health

:29:08.:29:12.

and reducing prescription drug prescribing. We want to look at

:29:13.:29:19.

innovative models of this to look at collaborating models. That would

:29:20.:29:24.

form new initiatives, including the initiative of the well-being bond.

:29:25.:29:29.

We will consider the work of organisations such as value steps in

:29:30.:29:35.

order to ensure that what we are doing has strengthened as a result

:29:36.:29:36.

of looking at that experience. First Minister, a number of deaths

:29:37.:29:46.

by suicide have occurred in the recent past in schools in my

:29:47.:29:51.

constituency. Earlier this year, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom

:29:52.:29:55.

made an announcement that every secondary school in England should

:29:56.:30:00.

be offered mental health first aid training which teaches people how to

:30:01.:30:03.

identify young people who might be developing a mental health issue and

:30:04.:30:08.

this policy has been very well received by charities and

:30:09.:30:11.

professionals. Especially and we must remember that many young people

:30:12.:30:18.

do struggle with issues such as anorexia and self harming, as wet as

:30:19.:30:24.

-- as well as suicidal thoughts. Would you consider a similar

:30:25.:30:29.

initiative in our schools to prevent these wasteful deaths quiz remark I

:30:30.:30:37.

noted the Prime Minister 's answer recently, it was a mistake on her

:30:38.:30:41.

part and the idea is one worthy of examination but of course what I

:30:42.:30:48.

will remind the member is that we have a councillor in schools already

:30:49.:30:51.

able to provide that service. The trick is not just to provide the

:30:52.:30:57.

counsellor but make sure that young people feel able to go and see them.

:30:58.:31:01.

That is a more difficult nut to crack. That can be quite a step. We

:31:02.:31:09.

already have councillors in schools but that is not enough of itself. We

:31:10.:31:13.

need to make sure that young people are able to access assistance

:31:14.:31:22.

outside of school as well. Thank you, prose and force. Does the Prime

:31:23.:31:28.

Minister understand how much of a crisis there is facing us in terms

:31:29.:31:33.

of mental health care in Wales? On Anglesey, I understand that there is

:31:34.:31:36.

now not a single psychiatric consultant for mental health

:31:37.:31:42.

patients between 18 and 65 years old. Health professionals are you

:31:43.:31:47.

working under huge pressure is that they cannot work with. They fear

:31:48.:31:50.

that they are having to make decisions which will be a risk to

:31:51.:31:56.

patients, the shortage of beds means that people are taken as far as

:31:57.:32:00.

London to be treated or receive care. There are dozens of children

:32:01.:32:04.

and young people who are sent to England for treatment and over 200

:32:05.:32:11.

mental health patients in North Wales have been transferred out of

:32:12.:32:17.

Wales in the last 22 months. Now, the whole system is on its knees.

:32:18.:32:20.

When will the government take action in order to safeguard some of my

:32:21.:32:28.

most vulnerable constituents? I do not accept the figures that the

:32:29.:32:33.

member has listed in the chamber. First of all the funding for mental

:32:34.:32:40.

health has gone up to 629 million for the ensuing financial year and

:32:41.:32:44.

that is safeguarded. Health boards have attained and actually exceeded

:32:45.:32:50.

their targets as regards mental health services. In some areas over

:32:51.:32:56.

the past 12 months and of course although more people are transferred

:32:57.:33:03.

into Kalms, the health boards are confident that the situation will

:33:04.:33:10.

demonstrate that every Kalms service in every part of Wales attained the

:33:11.:33:15.

28th day target before they get a new appointment. And so very many

:33:16.:33:21.

improvements have taken place in the past months. When will the First

:33:22.:33:27.

Minister meet with the first ministers of the UK's other devolved

:33:28.:33:32.

governments to discuss their relationship with the European

:33:33.:33:36.

Union? Well, of course, there is business to be discussed before the

:33:37.:33:42.

8th of June. But I do discuss EU issues with bilateral and trilateral

:33:43.:33:50.

meetings with first ministers of Scotland and Northern Ireland and

:33:51.:33:52.

the Deputy First Minister is of Northern Ireland. Wouldn't the First

:33:53.:33:59.

Minister agree that the discussions are more important than ever, given

:34:00.:34:05.

what is contained within this white paper with the sky blue cover on

:34:06.:34:09.

Exeter and the European Union, produced by the UK Government which

:34:10.:34:14.

mentions the situation post Brexit that the powers that the EU

:34:15.:34:22.

currently has in terms of common frameworks will return to the UK,

:34:23.:34:29.

allowing the rules to be set their by democratically elected members.

:34:30.:34:32.

What is happening to us in this place? How are our views in the

:34:33.:34:36.

devolved administrations to be part of those discussions? Well, my view

:34:37.:34:41.

is those powers should come to the people of Wales and should not be

:34:42.:34:45.

retained in Westminster or Whitehall. It is crucial to have

:34:46.:34:50.

frameworks in some parts such as the fisheries for example but those

:34:51.:34:52.

frameworks should actually be agreed and not imposed upon people without

:34:53.:34:58.

their consent. We must remember that if we are going to have a single

:34:59.:35:03.

market within the UK and we agree with that, we have to have rules but

:35:04.:35:07.

if we do not have ownership of the rules, nobody is gone to pay any

:35:08.:35:10.

attention to them and secondly there is the question on who is going to

:35:11.:35:14.

police those rules without having a court of law is to refer to. Some

:35:15.:35:20.

people in the UK think it will move back to how it was pre-1972 but that

:35:21.:35:24.

is not the same United Kingdom that we have now. We do not have just one

:35:25.:35:29.

government. There is a great deal of work to be done to ensure that these

:35:30.:35:32.

powers will be transferred from Brussels to Wales and not via

:35:33.:35:38.

London. When the external affairs committee visited Brussels last

:35:39.:35:41.

year, we met with the Canadian trade delegation and I was struck by the

:35:42.:35:45.

role of the Canadian provinces in the negotiation. We also know since

:35:46.:35:54.

then the role -- role of the parliament in negotiating the deal.

:35:55.:35:57.

Negotiations are going to become increasingly important for Wales and

:35:58.:36:02.

the UK and they are much more than about foreign affairs and Crown

:36:03.:36:05.

prerogative. They are about the bread-and-butter issues of daily

:36:06.:36:08.

economic life. Future negotiations with the EU and beyond should

:36:09.:36:13.

declare a voice for Wales and the other devolved administrations...?

:36:14.:36:21.

Yes, even though trade per se is not devolved, it is hugely involved that

:36:22.:36:25.

we have a strong voice. That's hugely important. Even if we might

:36:26.:36:33.

oppose any part of the trade agreement. That is hugely important.

:36:34.:36:38.

For example, if there were to be a free-trade agreement with Australia

:36:39.:36:40.

or New Zealand, that would have a massive impact on our farmers. Even

:36:41.:36:49.

though that is not devolved. We have heard voices in Australia over the

:36:50.:36:54.

last few weeks single was not possible to have a free-trade

:36:55.:36:57.

agreement with Australia and protect the interests of Welsh hill farmers.

:36:58.:37:05.

It is hugely important that the Welsh Government and disassembly is

:37:06.:37:08.

able to express a strong view and influence and reject actually part

:37:09.:37:14.

of trade agreements that will have an adverse agreement on our own

:37:15.:37:18.

farmers. The issue raised by the member is

:37:19.:37:22.

crucial and it has been identified for several months now that the

:37:23.:37:28.

future governments will give an indication of the future of the

:37:29.:37:31.

Constitution of this government 1-macro country. What progress have

:37:32.:37:38.

you made in terms of persuading his counterparts to agree that the

:37:39.:37:41.

future internal market should be governed jointly by the nations of

:37:42.:37:46.

the UK patent should not be imposed upon us by Whitehall? There are

:37:47.:37:49.

differing views amongst the government. The view in Scotland is

:37:50.:37:52.

basically independence will resolve the issue. The view in Northern

:37:53.:37:58.

Ireland is mixed. Certainly I know and have heard... Now we have to

:37:59.:38:07.

come to a position which I think is perfectly reasonable where we all

:38:08.:38:12.

say where powers are transferred back from Brussels they come to the

:38:13.:38:14.

devolved administrations and I see no reason why that cannot happen. My

:38:15.:38:22.

view is and I have not heard a voice dissenting from this, if we are to

:38:23.:38:26.

have an internal single market, those have to be agreed and they

:38:27.:38:30.

have to be policed by an independent adjudication of body, not the UK

:38:31.:38:37.

Government. We have to have a clear system, we have to have faith in a

:38:38.:38:41.

system that is seen as genuinely independent, not as we have now.

:38:42.:38:47.

Wherever there is a dispute between ourselves and the UK Treasury,

:38:48.:38:50.

ultimately it is resolved by the UK Treasury. Those days have to go.

:38:51.:38:54.

This can done perfectly sensibly and properly in order to safeguard the

:38:55.:39:01.

interests of Wales. Will the First Minister make a statement on pupil

:39:02.:39:05.

and seven -- student safety on foreign trips? The advice is

:39:06.:39:08.

produced by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. That is

:39:09.:39:11.

signposted in the all Wales guidance for education visits. That is

:39:12.:39:20.

accessible from the Welsh Government website. I have implored on the

:39:21.:39:25.

government to intervene in the case of Glyn Summers who lost his life in

:39:26.:39:33.

a trip to Spain. His parents have demanded transparency following the

:39:34.:39:37.

woeful investigation that followed his death. In his last letter to me

:39:38.:39:44.

on this matter, the First Minister said he did not believe there is

:39:45.:39:49.

anything further that he can do with regard to their concerns. But since

:39:50.:39:53.

then the public services ombudsman has found that the investigation

:39:54.:39:57.

into the death was flawed. The ombudsman has called on the local

:39:58.:40:01.

authority to apologise to the parents and has further called on

:40:02.:40:04.

the Welsh Government to review its policies further. Will the First

:40:05.:40:09.

Minister say sorry and will he reconsider his opposition to the

:40:10.:40:13.

right to a full and independent investigation into the death and

:40:14.:40:16.

serious injuries and 1-macro on foreign field trips?

:40:17.:40:22.

First of all, it was an awful event that occurred and it has been a

:40:23.:40:27.

hugely difficult few years as we can all imagine for the parents. The

:40:28.:40:32.

matter has rested with the ombudsman. The ombudsman has now

:40:33.:40:36.

reported. There are recommendations for us as a government and we will

:40:37.:40:39.

take those recommendations exceptionally seriously. I will keep

:40:40.:40:52.

it as an open question. I think these things have to be looked at

:40:53.:40:57.

carefully and as a result of the ombudsman 's findings, I will look

:40:58.:41:00.

once again to see if there is anything more that can be done

:41:01.:41:08.

following the report itself. I would like to echo those concerns and also

:41:09.:41:13.

offer my condolences to the family of Glyn Summers. I think the

:41:14.:41:17.

question is how can the Welsh Government ensure that schools are

:41:18.:41:21.

able to reflect on occurrences, those rare occurrences, when

:41:22.:41:26.

something happens on school trips? And the First Minister said he would

:41:27.:41:30.

keep it as an open question. Would he be willing to elaborate on how

:41:31.:41:33.

schools can learn from each other in the circumstances? The ombudsman 's

:41:34.:41:38.

recommendations is that he will invite us as a government to

:41:39.:41:41.

consider reviewing our policies and guidance in respect of educational

:41:42.:41:46.

visits abroad. As part of that process of review, it is hugely

:41:47.:41:50.

important to understand where the best practice lies and consult once

:41:51.:41:54.

again with the outdoor education advisors panel in order to make sure

:41:55.:41:57.

that the recommendation the ombudsman has put two is satisfied

:41:58.:42:06.

in full. I share the concerns expressed in the chamber and of

:42:07.:42:09.

course the sympathy to the family of Glyn Summers but would you agree

:42:10.:42:13.

with me we need to get the balance right in respect of any changes that

:42:14.:42:16.

might need to be made going forward to improve the risk assessment

:42:17.:42:22.

processes regarding school trips because we don't want people to be

:42:23.:42:29.

able to access and enrich educational experience by taking

:42:30.:42:32.

part in trips so to board had any changes to guidance, local education

:42:33.:42:38.

authority guidance, is something which does not prohibit trips from

:42:39.:42:43.

taking place and it is fair and in proportion to all those taking part.

:42:44.:42:47.

I couldn't disagree with the words the member has used but in the

:42:48.:42:54.

circumstances there has been a... As much transparency as possible, as

:42:55.:42:58.

much information as possible is used in order to strengthen policies as

:42:59.:43:02.

far as the future is concerned but yes, of course, nobody would want to

:43:03.:43:05.

see a situation where school trips don't take place because of what are

:43:06.:43:13.

seen as regulations that are overly burdensome but it is important in

:43:14.:43:16.

the circumstances we have today that a full investigation leads to a full

:43:17.:43:25.

set of recommendations... To minimise any potential risk in the

:43:26.:43:31.

future. Following the re-enactment of the

:43:32.:43:35.

Wales act 2017, what further powers should be devolved to Wales quiz

:43:36.:43:39.

remark they are to be found in our draft Bill which we published.

:43:40.:43:47.

I noted earlier you pledge not to increase income tax but will you saw

:43:48.:43:51.

pledge to use your devolved powers to reduce costs to businesses so

:43:52.:43:56.

that employers can start being attracted to Wales and provide

:43:57.:44:01.

much-needed jobs. I am not sure which powers you are referring to.

:44:02.:44:06.

Business rates are but in terms of National Insurance or corporation

:44:07.:44:13.

tax, they are not devolved. But from our perspective, we have

:44:14.:44:20.

unemployment that is lower than England, Scotland and Northern

:44:21.:44:23.

Ireland and we have recently had the best figures from foreign investment

:44:24.:44:28.

in 30 years. As Michelle Brown has just said, the

:44:29.:44:33.

Wales act will of course deliver a new range of fiscal powers for the

:44:34.:44:37.

Welsh Government, ranging from borrowing and income tax powers and

:44:38.:44:44.

stamp duty? Whatever you want to do will be dependent on a strong Welsh

:44:45.:44:48.

revenue authority and that is in the process of being setup and the

:44:49.:44:50.

Finance committee has been looking at that. Are you happy the progress

:44:51.:44:55.

being made and what mechanisms do you have in place to make sure that

:44:56.:45:00.

progress keeps on track? We have no concerns about the progress of the

:45:01.:45:04.

Welsh revenue authority. We know that it will be in place in good

:45:05.:45:08.

time for next year. Of course, we need to ensure that when taxes are

:45:09.:45:12.

devolved there is an authority in place to make sure they can be

:45:13.:45:15.

collected. We have understood there is a pressure on government and that

:45:16.:45:19.

pressure we have met and we are confident that when the time comes

:45:20.:45:22.

next year, the Welsh revenue authority will be in place and will

:45:23.:45:30.

work. Will you distance yourself from

:45:31.:45:36.

comments made by Diane Abbott who told BBC radio Wales last week that

:45:37.:45:40.

the Labour Party did not think it was right at this time to devolved

:45:41.:45:45.

policing to Wales? Have you asked Diane Abbott why she feels that the

:45:46.:45:51.

Welsh Government uniquely is less capable than the Scottish and

:45:52.:45:55.

Northern Ireland executives in terms of delivering police services? The

:45:56.:45:59.

Welsh Government packed full of Labour representatives, and the

:46:00.:46:04.

Scottish and Northern Ireland executives have no such lumbered

:46:05.:46:09.

encumbrances. I am fully aware of the fact that the people decided

:46:10.:46:15.

there should be a Labour led government in Wales last year. I do

:46:16.:46:19.

not agree that policing should not be devolved. Policing should be

:46:20.:46:24.

devolved. There is a debate in this chamber tomorrow afternoon when the

:46:25.:46:27.

issue will become clear. There is no reason at all why policing should be

:46:28.:46:34.

devolved for Scotland and Northern Ireland, Manchester, London, but not

:46:35.:46:39.

to Wales. There is no rational reason for that to be the case. We

:46:40.:46:45.

know that there will need to be cooperation in terms of

:46:46.:46:48.

counterterrorism. When it comes to community policing, why is it that

:46:49.:46:51.

Wales is seen as a second-class nation by the Tories?

:46:52.:46:57.

There we are. That was First Minister's Questions for this

:46:58.:47:08.

afternoon. More coverage online: there is an election special after

:47:09.:47:12.

the ten o'clock news tomorrow evening but from all of us, thank

:47:13.:47:15.

you for watching. Good afternoon.

:47:16.:47:21.

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