Episode 1 Free Speech

This is Free Speech, live from East London. Your chance to have your

Police horse Razor, which I did ride.

How excite something this? Good evening and welcome to the first

ever Free Speech. I'm Jake Humphrey. Tonight we're live at Queen Mary,

University of London in Mile End, with this gorgeous audience. Good

everybody. Thank you for turning out this evening. Give yourself a

round of applause. Tonight, the show revolves around you. It's

their show, and it's your show. Join the debate at

bbc.co.uk/FreeSpeech: We are on Facebook at

Facebook.com/BBCFreeSpeech. On on Twitter at : you can use the

hashtag Free Speech. Good evening Michelle. This is exciting, isn't

it? I know. Look at our fashion forward audience. Great. All your

friends? Of course, friends and family. The aim for tonight is to

get people at home engaged and involved as possible. You will

bring their messages and thoughts into here? I will speak on their

behalf. All the people at home or online. Yeah, speak for them.

Picking out my favourite messages and throwing them into the debate.

Your day job is being a stand-up comedienne. You are used to being

thrown messages? Yes, I'm a Brixton girl, bring it. A Brixton girl,

love. It excited about tonight. We met Michelle and the audience, that

leaves for mour people to introduce, they are tonight's panel. Radio

One's newest DJ Gemma Cairney. One of East London's most successful

sons, multi-millionaire entrepreneur, Dominic McVey. Taking

a bread from polishing his BAFTA and starring in new film Payback

Season, Adam Deacon. And Conservative MP and former TV

presenter, Esther McVey, who is, she assures me, no relation to

Dominic at all. That is your panel. APPLAUSE

This is something that we are very excited about. Tonight, your

opinion will be shared with us all via something that we are called

the Power Bar. For example, just to give you an example. If you like

what Gemma is saying, you have to add hashtag YES Gemma to any tweet

you send in. The Power Bar will fire up. If you don't like what she

is saying you add hashtag NO Gemma. The same for all the panellists.

Innocent judgment, scary for the panel, powerful for you at home.

You have already been shaping the show. What is firing you up is the

benefits workfare. Young people on jobseeker's allowance doing work

experience has been particularly controversial with protests across

the country. Last weekend they turned ugly. This was the scene in

Oxford Street which one person filmed his phone. Not nice to see.

We will kick off with a question from Jamella. Are the schemes being

used as free labour for employers. Your government brought this in?

It's about opportunity and empowerment. It's important to know

how the scheme came about. Prior to this, which is an overarching

scheme, should you have done work experience for two weeks you would

have lost your benefit altogether. It was a piecemeal sporadic way to

do work experience. We said, OK, how will we do it to give more

opportunities to more people and also work with employers? A lot of

employers would say, the youth of today aren't work ready. We said,

no, that is not the case. Help them do work experience. See if you like

them. Then employ them. I tell you one thing, me, personally, if I

hadn't been able to have done work experience, if I hadn't had the

opportunity, I would never have got into the very first job and my

future career. I fully endorse it. I believe we need to support. It

you keep your benefits. You get transport costs. We give childcare

costs. It's a way to say, look at me, please give me a go.

APPLAUSE What do you think? Theed aience

seem to agree? I'm interested in the type of companies offering this

work experience. When I did more research, a lot of them are places

were you don't necessarily need skills. They are big companies that

can definitely afford to pay people a decent wage. That I'm a little

bit confused about. APPLAUSE

OK. Well, I think, there are a few companies that got the publicity.

If you are talking the big retail, added to that, there is IT,

manufacturing, there is 200 small companies or smaller companies now

that have come on board. There is an opportunity in every single way.

Now, I'm also a business person who has given work experience to

somebody. I think what you also need to take into account. If you

are doing work experience properly, you have to support that person.

You have to have opportunities in place. You have to other members of

staff paying for that. Sometimes you need a bigger organisation that

has the infrastructure to do that. Can I also say, any free person I

know who has succeeded in the job they have done, they started on the

shop floor. I don't care if it was Terry from less Coe or Stuart Rose

at marks and Spencer. That is when there was jobs for life. That is

not any more. Going back to Gemma's point, that is what it is. You are

telling young people to go out there, work at jobs were you are

not offering major opportunity to go on and go forward. What I'm

saying... Basically, what you are saying, right, what it seems like

to me, I think, sorry, a lot of young people out there. Young

people are not silly, isn't it? They know when you are given an

opportunity. They know when it's, kind of, work. Free labour. Right.

It's clear. It's clear, basically, you need to offer young people

opportunity that they know is going to lead to something, you know

that... To better their life. They will not do free work. It's up to

everybody to grasp an opportunity and take it forward. When I started

with work experience it was a week here, it was a week there. I was

making coffees. Because it gave me an opportunity to go into a

business. I found out who to apply for jobs for. What they needed me

to do. Were you getting paid? put money into it to stay in

Birmingham, London and Manchester. It's an opportunity, take it with

both hands. Dominic is the perfect man to come to. That is what you

did. As a teenager you took an opportunity and grabbed it with

both hands. Does this scheme by the Government after offer that

opportunity to young people? don't think it does. The Government

did not think this process through. Adam has rightly said, they have

companies that young people have no interest in. If the Government

wanted to give people experience it could have thought it through

better and say, what about the charities that need volunteers?

What about the Big Society that Cameron is going on about? He gives

work experience, opportunities to large corporations which are taking

away, you know, the independence of small communities in areas were

Esther was working in small shops, getting an idea. Working with shop

owners. Making coffees for people who had an influence as opposed to

stacking shelves with coffee beans. When you start a scheme which has

never existed before. Nobody has had this before. You have to start

somewhere. You put the infrastructure in place with

companies nationally who can help you. Now, we have more companies

than ever before because they heard about it and say, we want to get

involved, small companies, charities, voluntary groups. They

want to get involved because they are getting people to work for free.

As things stand it at the moment on the Power Bar, Adam and Dominic are

flying. Esther is struggling. Lots of people here started talking here

as Esther was talking. I agree with Adam and Dom, these opportunities

can't be tokenistic. I ran a campaign called Ready For Work, we

spoke to hundreds of young people, it has to be of interest to them.

The Government have to gate grip. Why don't we go back to bankers'

bonuses. If we taxed the bankers we could give young companies the

money and financial incentive to give the young people the

opportunities they want, not a tick box exercise that will win votes in

the future. Thank you very much. Another question from this young

lady here. I'm Terri. You are calling this an "opportunity" why

don't you ask young people what they want to do, then try and give

them that opportunity then? Well, actually, you do get asked, do you

want to do it? Also what sphere of work would you like to go into.

It's also voluntary if you do or don't want to do. It like I said,

you start somewhere and you move forward with. That you get work

experience. You might say, as I did, I thought I would work in

restaurants. I worked there for a while and I thought, actually, I

don't want to do this. It's just as important to say, no, I don't, yes

I do. It is a steppingstone. Life is difficult. It's about stepping

stones. Actually, it's not that we don't get to choose to do it. If we

don't do it our benefits get stopped. No, they don't. No, they

don't. That's wrong. That's wrong. They do not. It's a voluntary

scheme. You keep your benefits. You get your transport costs. If

anybody needs childcare you get that too. There is misinformation

out there. You d not lose your benefits. That's incorrect. I think

it's embarrassing to offer someone work experience stacking shelves

for free. APPLAUSE

This Government have been one of the best governments out there that

love to spin it, like. They are so good at talking. They don't listen

to young people. From day one, since they come in, they are not

listening to young people. They spin. It they get the best way of

putting, we do listen and do this and that. They don't, the proof is

in the pudding. So many young people feel like they are not being

heard. Adam say there is is lots of spin out there. This is not spin

that you are about to see. Terri and some friends have created a

video. That is what it's like to be on benefits in this country and

looking for work. In the UK, 1.5 million young people aged between

16-24 are unemployed. One in five are not in full-time education,

work or training. I have been searching for a job since July

12011. I have applied for simple jobs like food packaging and I get

no reply. I think to myself, is there a point in me trying? I go to

the Jobcentre, they don't help much. All they do is sign my book and

tell me to come back in two weeks. I'm 20, I'm a young mum. I'm on

benefits, this isn't my choice. When I've been on job interviews

I've been told no because I have a choild, so it would make me

unreliable. It's so hard to be on benefits, especially having to

support two people. I feel trapped. I'm 19. I have a job, which the

contract ends in the next couple of months, which is a six-month

contract. I only got that job because my friend offered it to me.

After this contract, I'm left with no trade. I'm left as I started,

back to nothing. How am I expected to survive like this? Most people

will say the Jobcentre. I have been to the Jobcentre, they don't help

me. I know plenty of people going through the same thing I'm doing.

What options are there for me as a young person in this day and age?

David Cameron has said if you come work, then you should work and the

government will help you find work. As you have seen, it's not as

simple as that, is it? There you go. Four stories, four disillusions

people. We have Franklin and Eliza this evening. We are keen to hear

both of you. Franklin. I'm of the opinion that the Government should

be helping people get jobs. They should be helping people be

funneled into higher positions not just stacking shelves. They should

be learning trades for young people. I would never let this discredit

the fact that society is somewhat meritcratic. We as young people

should be on the internet looking for opportunities your self-we

shouldn't defuse responsibility to the government because it is our

Do you look for those opportunities? Yes, I do. I am

studying sociology at LSE. That was having decided not to study at

Cambridge University. I have been writing for the Guardian, so the

opportunities are available and it is for us to take it upon ourselves

to go out there and look for opportunities. Very good. Give us

some idea of the things that you are doing to create an opportunity

for yourself. I own a campaign called Live slot Knives. I train

young people to be mentors to work in primary schools and secondary

schools with me to talk about the dangers of getting involved in

knife crime and gun crime. That has a lot to do with benefit cuts as

well, I think. I think that the social change affects us,

especially what I am doing in my community. If there are

opportunities out there, do you think you can find them? I think

also you have to make your own opportunity and lots of young

people look for opportunities when they could make their own because

they have the business might to do it. If you would like to get

involved as well then you can get involved on Twitter. You can use

the Power Bar. At the moment, Dominic and Adam are resonating

with the audience. Esther is fighting hard on behalf of the

Government and struggling for popularity at the moment. Don't

worry! The night is yet young. You can add the hashtag no or yes and

the name of your panellist if you do not like something. Don't just

shout at the television, let us know what to think. Michelle, what

is happening are mine? And nice way to round up this chap, Tim says

that the Workfare campaign, when people get engaged, we can make

things happen. Better than the MPs and the Piers can. I think a round

of applause for that. Is it as busy and fiery online as it is in the

studio? It is going off! That is good. Get involved if you are

wrapped home. Let's move on to a new topic. Research released this

week shows that cycling injuries in London have trebled in the last six

years and it is not just London. But that this. This was caught on

CCTV. It is a bus driver in Bristol going out of his way to hit the

cyclist because they had had an argument. The cyclist's leg was

broken. The bus driver went to jail for 17 months. Online, our top five,

the five topics most important to you, as had so many different

points of view when it comes to cycle safety. We will talk about

that. First, Jeanette was prepared to risk life and limb to take to

the roads with no training. -- chairman. Should there be a law

against people like me cycling in the street? I want to cycle to work

I think there should be more training available. I don't

necessarily think it should be compulsory. I end up the lane. It

is so hard. When sandwiched between a bus and a lorry and I am so small.

I feel really scared. This tiny little bicycle and this rubbish

helmet and a jacket are not going to protect me against a massive

lorry. The more cyclists there are, the safer the city is. The beauty

of the bicycle is that it is simple and it is not regulated.

I don't know where I am meant to be. The white van man will kill me. I

# Just hold on. If there was more regulation, I

think people would not cycle as much because it would be too

complex. I rub! From my experience today, training should be

obligatory. I would like to know more before I did that ever again.

Very good. I like that when you arrive that Radio One you thought

you had made it and that lorry appeared! Lovely bicycle! And it is

actually mind. Everybody thought I had got it to look rubbish but it

is my fault up! Give us an idea what it is like to cycle through

London? Horrible. I liked the idea that if there are more cyclists

bent it will be a safer place, and we will be fit and healthy. But if

you don't know the rules, and you do not drive like me, and you

failed your cycling proficiency at high school, then I am a calamity!

How can I be allowed out there? That is what I am saying. Again it

is the Government doing something, right, telling people to leave

their cars at home and get on the bicycle. At the same time, London

is London. There are small roads everywhere and drivers get

frustrated. Saying you can put more cyclist out there and that will

solve it, and I am being honest, I am not against bicycles, but in

your car you get bombarded by cyclists around your car. Seriously,

I swear to God. They lean against your car. Some woman must have been

riding and basically scraped my car and thought she could write off. If

that was in a car, you could not get away with that but she got out

of it. Some cyclists here have got a right to reply. Just one more

point? They should have to follow the code of the road. At the moment

they do whatever they want. If you kill someone, you know what I am

saying? It is not the same for drivers. I don't know the rules of

the road. Nobody does. Some people do. It looks like you might have

cycled here this evening. Show us! I brought this into show what I do

to feel safe because I only started cycling when I went to university

abating. I was really scared about being on the roads and I am scared

of being on the roads in London. What makes me secure is knowing

that if somebody hits me then there is no way they can get away with it

and so they cannot see me. -- say they cannot see me. I have lights

on the front and back of my bicycle and the Talmud. I stuck stickers on

it, you can get them on eBay. -- and the helmet. Who is going to

wear that? This is for your rucksack and it is fantastic. It is

not just the law and understand in what is going on, there is also

sustainable transport people. They have built the National Cycle

Network. It does not work. They have done loads of free training

for cyclists that do not understand how to conduct themselves. A lot of

people would get angry with me, but I am the party pooper, and it

should be obligatory. I think for your safety, yes. I am so ignorant

and there are people like me that failed their Cycling proficiency

that should not be allowed on the roads. Let's hear from James. Off

you go. Meek James? I have been riding for a few years. I ride from

South London to commute to work. I have not got the magical

superhighways, anything like that on my route. It is about learning

what you are doing, I agree. If you are completely new, it is scary and

there are lots of big lorries. The big ones are assertive. They are

monsters! That is not all motorists but there are people that get very

aggressive and angry. Some cyclists bring it on themselves. Leaving on

your car is not OK. The Government is against the car. Seriously. As a

driver, you feel you are getting fined and you cannot park and to

get frustrated and then the cyclists come. There has to be

fairness on the road. London struggles with congestion and

pollution. How do you find a happy balance as the Government?

happy balance, I suppose, is if people want to do it, and Boris did

it well with the bicycle, and they are extending it tomorrow, 50,000

docking stations out here, but at the end of the day it must be about

personal choice. I don't particularly right, I am a

pedestrian and I walk everywhere. - - I don't particularly cycle. You

do have to know the code of the road and you have to understand

there are cars, people and trucks. I think it is important for someone

like London to have, not an arbitrary cycling proficiency test,

but a proper one going forward. I also believe one heavy goods

vehicles are doing their licensing if there are more cyclists on the

road, they should have a greater obligation to the dangers around

them. But it is personal choice and responsibility. Dominic? I think

the Barclays bicycles are the great initiative but how the hell can you

put it 1000 bicycles on the road and not tell people to wear

helmets? -- 8000 bicycles. It is crazy. I will never forget this. It

epitomises it. I was walking through Soho Square, a sunny

afternoon, and I saw a drunk woman on a Boris bikes. She was having a

time of her life in heels. Can I be honest? They did not care about

getting an people to ride the bike because if they did, they would not

design it with a Barclays advert. Who is going to write that? Young

people will not be seen dead on that. I know that you are against

the Government, and to say that about everything, but it does have

to be about the individual. They were sponsored, that is why.

Government never takes responsibility. Have you ever seen

any young people riding one of those Barclays bikes? It is only

one type of one person and I am being honest, the trendy business

person that has jumped on it. is five. They are being used and

they are successful. -- that is fine. If people have better bikes,

use them. 27,000 people were killed or seriously injured in 10 years.

You think cyclists need more training, it looked like people at

home do not agree with you. That is because they are better than me!

There are other people that should not be allowed without training.

lot of it comes down to common sense. You see cyclists on their

telephones, in a long skirt, no helmets, pitch black, no lights,

wrong way up a one-way street. The lorries do not want to kill the

cyclists but they do not know you are there if they cannot see you.

think helmet safety is really important. I have loads of friends

that cycle and I get so angry with anyone I know that does not wear

one. It is stupidity. It is an emotive subject and I will be

interested to hear what people at home make of this conversation.

Lots of people agreeing with you, Gemma, and saying that people

should have to take a cycle proficiency test. After seeing you

do Jeremy Clarkson on two wheels, I agree! I also think that it is

worth saying that if there could be some cool cycle helmets out there...

You have to make it appeal to young people. Get rid of the Barclays

logo and all that. So who pays if you get rid of the sponsorship?

Let's be honest, I will be so real with you, we have had two subjects

so far on this programme and I think people care more about the

benefits than the cyclone. What I am on the stage, I want to go back.

-- than the cycling. With the benefits, what we have done, it

seems like we are punishing the poorer class of society all the

time. That is what we are doing. which goes, we have to move on.

This is relevant, if you are talking about punishing people that

cannot afford things, it cheap alcohol. That might not be

something that we can talk about for much longer if David Cameron

has his way. Minimum prices for alcohol are being planned. Let's

have a look at this. I have got a bottle of own brand vodka. What

would you pay for this? �5? �8? �4? At the moment this costs �8.35.

Under the Government's plans this would go from �8.35 up to �11.85.

And I am afraid that is not all. Interesting that people are

clapping that and we will find out why in a moment. For back of lager,

how much? �2. -- four pack of lager. At the moment it costs �3 and it

would cost an extra �1 under the Government's schemes. And the old

favourite in the summer, in a pint glass with some eyes, strong cider.

Give us a price. How much? �1? You are not far off. At the moment, one

pound 20. This would go up to �3.75. The Government wants to introduce a

minimum of 45 pence per unit of alcohol. Is it the right thing to

do? Let go straight to the audience Is it time we include alcohol in

the misuse of drugs act 1971? wants to go first? When it comes to

this whole alcohol thing. In Britain, yeah, we have always been

a country, isn't it, of drinkers. That has always been like. That you

need to... I do not believe that putting a couple of pound on

alcohol will do anything. Young people are going to... If they are

going to drink, right, they will get the drink. They will do that.

The lower class, the poorer people getting taxed. I was doing a job in

Manchester, yeah. It was... There were kids running around drunk. It

was the more upper class kids going crazy. I'm not saying all the time.

All young people go out and get drunk. Why would you only, kind of,

target the people who can't afford. They will find it hard to be able

to buy the alcohol. You need to, basically, get into young people's

minds and ask them why they feel that, at the moment there are young

people who have the mind frame of work, in a kind of rubbish job they

are not feeling. They go out at the weekend and get themselves... They

don't want to get tipsy, they want to get drunk. It doesn't make sense

what so ever. People are looking at the alcohol strategy. How it comes

about is various things. Professor Ian Gilmore who studied alcohol and

its effects for many years. He said if minimum pricing went up to 50p

it could save 10,000 lives a year. That is were it comes from. At the

moment it's costing the country �20 billion for the side affects and

also the affect to the body. It's costing Accident & Emergency �1

billion and the NHS �3 billion. We are saying, how are we going to

have a safe, you know, better society? How will we stop binge

drinking? I don't think it's about increasing the cost. I think it's

about awareness and why are you, or people, getting drunk and binge

drinking? Awareness is a key thing so people can choose what they want.

The money you are going to raise, this stealth tax... It is not

stealth tax. If it saves 10,000 lives a year like Professor Ian

Gilmore said... She said my point doesn't make sense. It does make

sense what I'm saying. You need to get into young people's minds as to

why they want to get so drunk. It's about time you legalised cannabis

and you, basically... APPLAUSE

I say that because young people will do these things. They are

going to do it. We need to ask you guys. You guys are really important.

Take a look, this is about getting into young people's minds, Dominic,

Adam people loving what you are saying. Esther people not at the

moment. I'm keen to hear from the audience. A few questions from here.

I think alcohol is a problem in this country. I don't think it's

the young people it is a problem with. I think that the majority of

people who are alcoholics aren't people sitting in this audience.

The people are older. We need to combat is how and why are those

people alcoholics? If young people want to go to a festival and get

drunk, I think that is fine. People need those learning curvings when

they get smashed,, "I will not do that again". That is when people go

to hospital. Usually the deaths from alcohol isn't young people.

It's older people who are severe alcoholics who have done in their

liver for many years, probably 50 years old. You need to tack tl not

from putting the price up. That will not do anything. Acute toxify

kaition has doubled from 200 to now. A lot of it is young kid, whether

it's at university binge drinking. It's about awareness and why you

are doing it. I agree with that. You start off by saying, "we have

always been a nation of big drinkers" I am saying, what is the

best way forward? A couple of pound the kids will find it. I agree.

won't do anything it won't change anything. It has to be a thing

about awareness and understanding. I agree with you, not only will you

find the extra couple of kids will you have a few more drinks before

you go out which will be self- defeating. You have to look at it

in the round. Not only young people, as you made that point, a lot of

people in general are not happy. They are going out to get

themselves messed up. That is what they want to do. They want to get

as drunk as they can. Escapism. Someone shouted out, "excuses".

There was a lot of deregulation with alcohol during the Blair years.

Facilitating binge drinking is what happened when you see the price of

alcohol go down. I realise people are frustrated and they want to

have a good time. We need to do something to try and reach a level

were people are more aware of their drinking patterns. We do.

Cigarettes at �7 a pack, people are still buying. What cut down the

smoking, taking cigarettes out of the bars, clubs and restaurants

impacting our social lives have reduced the amount of people

smoking, not them being �7. If you want to smoke you will spend �7 a

pack. Price increases won't stop us drinking. If you are spending more

money you will think about what you are buying. You might not spend �2

on the most disgusting cider that will make you puke for the whole

night. Could it work? I think it could. I know we are all talking

quite emotive, emotions are leading up. If the guy who spent ten years,

professor Ian Gilmore said we would save 10,000 lives a year why are we

poohpooing it. Now to the guys at home. Someone who sounds like they

are on the sauce it's AJ who says, "who cares about alcohol prices,

it's not even that serious ?" There is also, I think you might like

this, Esther, Steve says, "dringe a bottle of cheep booze, get on your

bike and ride to the Jobcentre ." Then lastly, sorry, Tom says,

"expensive booze will make us all skint. I have to say it might get

in the way of our kebab money as well". Let's hear from people in

the audience. I know that alcohol is wrong because a lot of people, a

lot of young people, they will start becoming, like, going to

hospital more because of the limit of how much they taking alcohol.

It's the limit of the alcohol they take it in. I don't know... They go

on the bottles then, cans, the limits of how much they can take.

Like, it's the units. Let's hear from someone who think it is could

work? Put your hand up if you think it's a scheme who could work for

people. Over there. I think it could work. I think if people go

out and people haven't got the money, then people aren't going to

go out and spend the money. Were I come from there is a bus that sits

out and look after the drunks and vulnerable on a Friday and Saturday

night. The people on a Friday and Saturday night have gone down

because people don't have the money to spend it on alcohol. The amount

of people who go to Accident & Emergency in my town has dropped

because people don't go out because they can't afford to. One last

comment. You look like you disagree. Isn't that ignoring all of the

people who can afford it? That is only dealing with half of the

problem. How is that a good solution, that's stupid? The answer

to this is that we will agree to disagree. If you are at home and

you want to get involved, get in Now then, we will move tonne our

next topic. This is inspired by Tinea Taylor who uploaded this

video on to our website about her feelings about lads mags and body

image. We look at the media, music videos and think they are amazing.

We open a lads mag and see a tall, legy blonde with perfectly shaped

breasts, legs with no cellulite. Tiny waste waist and a flat stomach

and think, "she looks amazing, that is what I need to look like". You

look in the mirror and that is Knott what you look like. You think,

I don't look attractive. That is not perfection. That is not what

the media are painting as perfection. You have girls as young

as 11 who are bulimic and anorexia starving themselves to fit these

ideals. These sterotypes have been going around for 30 to 40 years,

it's time for a change. They need to paint images of real women.

Women who are curvier, not so perfect, not so glamorous because

that's not what the average woman looks like. There you go. A Free

Speech viewer. You can do that at home as well. We have re-set the

power bars. Let's find out what you think about this topic and what you

think about our panel at home. question is, is there any place for

Page 3 and lad mags in today's modern society? Dominic, would you

like to explain to us the magazine that you are involved with and talk

us through that? I'm the proud possible blusher of the magazine

called front fron. It has been around for 11 or 12 years. A few

fans in the room? I'm sure there are a few riders. They maybe don't

want to quite admit it. You know, is there space in society? Front I

wouldn't class as a lads mag. The magazines that I think that are

causing the affects on women are the female gossip magazines that

are saying, "she put on 30 kie kilos, she has lost 20 kilos".

Women don't read lads mags. They don't go out there and pick them up

and look at the women. Most of the girls in our magazine are sub

mitting their pictures regularly. They are normal girls, all shapes

and sighss. There is everything in Front magazine. Female gossip

magazines are telling you how to lose 20 kilos within two weeks. We

don't do that. We praise and celebrate the women that are in our

magazine. All sorts of women, or a certain time? All sorts of women.

Would you put me on the front cover? Have you applied? No, I am

aentreeged. Are you applying now? No. I don't see myself as a

conventional beauty. You are beautiful. Thank you. That

conventional sexy, glamour... real note, there will be so many

guys out there that will see you Gemma and think you are beautiful.

There would be, right. That is why you need other girls on these front

covers. It's clear the people at home think you are beautiful look

at your Power Bar. Let's hear from our audience. Shereece. Off you go.

Tell us your story. I don't think that is supposed to be me? Have you

something you would like to say? Yes I do. I don't think we should

put emphasis on lads mags. We are getting it from Hollyoaks. I will

never be on. It I'm curvy, not the front face of something like that

or a magazine. What I did love was the Ann Summer's campaign. They had

women of all shapes and sizes. I thought that was beautiful. I

thought that is what we need to do more. Shops and fashion side of it

more involved. That is what women are concentrated on rather than

lads mags. I was Miss Teen London. That is the story I was looking for.

I did well considering I was one of the largest girls in there. It

knocked my confidence that everyone was a size 6 or size 8. I was proud

that I was Miss Teen London Galaxy. APPLAUSE

You can't dismiss lads mags at all. It focuss on female images whrfplt

it means she has to look a certain way it's focusing on the idea that

a woman is an object to look at. So, no, lads mags, we are not objects.

David Beckham has launched a pair of underwear. He is seen all over

magazines. 12-year-old girls holding his crouch. I would agree

with you on that. It's in every industry. It's in every sector. You

can't pinpoint this on mag scene zeens that do not say anything bad

about women. What it is, right, as you said, it's there. These

pictures are out there. You see it in films. You see it in computer

games now. It's everywhere. You can't put it down to amag. The way

society is at the moment, young girls, they are bombarded by these

images. The only way it will change, especially young girls, the way

they see this... You will not get rid of it. There will be some

company putting images out there, sex sells, people know that. You

need to get girls of all shapes. The fact of it is, you talk to boys

out there, they don't want to see a skinny girl, they want to see...

APPLAUSE Let's find out from the girls in

the audience. Which females in our audience, put your hands up, if you

walk past lads mags and look the You lookout lads mags and you see

girls that do not have much self- respect, in my opinion. They are

showing their front of two men, and you know what men do when they look

at those magazines. The pages get sticky! Why would I look at a

magazine with girls on the front showing themselves off, and think

that I am upset because I do not look like that? I am happy to look

at the way I am because they do not want men looking at me. The same

way children get annoyed if children put these pictures on the

internet. It that your sister? is my identical twin. -- is that

your sister? It is International Women's Day tomorrow and you say

that the centralisation of men is not a problem, but women do not

have the opportunities that men have. You may say that David

Beckham is being set alight, but he has a multi-million-pound job. --

is being made into a set object. They need the money. They do not

need the money. I work with lots of girls doing career advice and there

are two things that they say. When they see these idealised visions of

women, it really makes them feel bad. It makes them feel pressurised

into looking a certain way and they think about plastic surgery. That

is one issue, how they feel and the way they are looked up. More

importantly, it does have an invidious effect. If women are only

looked at as something and you do not see the capabilities they have

as individuals. It lowers aspirations. You say that they come

out, and when girls look at role- models, they look at Jordan rather

than an inventor, JK Rowling. When looking at future jobs, they look

at models instead of engineers. Have any magazine you want, but

let's see girls doing lots of different, powerful things. Do you

think magazines like that should be on the top shelf? I don't think we

need to obliterate lads mags. We need to diversified the people we

see in them and make it different. It is boring. A in America they are

more open to that. Beyonce, she has got curves. It is a British thing

that we always pick the skills. The girls feel they have to become size

zero and it is unbelievable. -- will always pick these girls.

see girls doing more, doing something exciting, being

adventurous, the top of multinational companies. Let's see

them doing more things. They are doing that but let's celebrate it

more. What are people saying at home? Give us your story. You have

been on the catwalk. I used to do that. How much pressure were you

under? I was under pressure but that is part of the job, to be

honest. That is your job. Especially on the runway, you have

to stay skinny. For you, Dominic, you are probably promoting

something healthier than higher fashion does. We do. I think that

girls are hard on other women than men are ever, to be honest. --

harder. I can buy you don't that now! I like this comment from Peter.

Why is it all about women and their body image when there is a hidden

side of it? So many young and older men have eating disorders because

they want the perfect bodies and that is just a secret. That is a

good point. Another person here, I don't know how to say the name.

They say that is not true. A MPs to hear that. Looking at the Power Bar,

Esther, you are not getting the gold medal. -- I am pleased to hear

that. There is one story that you heard today that we cannot ignore

that six British soldiers were killed in Afghanistan. They went up

there on Valentine's Day, that is heartbreaking. Less than a month

ago, the biggest single loss of life in six years. Jamie? Is the

outcome of Afghanistan worth the death toll? That question is

inevitable after such loss of life. What does the panel thing? Esther?

-- think? No life is worth it but when people have given a life, we

have to make it worth it. We have to make sure that we help undo the

best we can in Afghanistan and everybody that has lost their life,

we need to make sure that they and everybody knows they did it for a

purpose. -- make sure we help and do the best we can. You have a

friend doing it for a purpose at the moment. Tell us. Yes, my friend

is 26 and in Helmand Province. He is finishing his first tour. My

opinion on this, when you see the news coming out, it personally

resonates. I know somebody up there. Afghanistan has been part of the

young person's history, especially up children in schools today. How

much are they desensitised to what the six people's lives mean and

what Afghanistan means to them and British society? I think, you know,

a lot of young people I do think care about that subject because it

has been around for the last 10 years. I have to ask myself, we

cannot even sought our own country out at the moment. -- sort out our

own country. What makes anyone think we can sort out the problems

of another country? We cannot get it right here, do you know what I

am saying? It is clear that we have no money in this country at the

moment. Are we sending soldiers up with the right training? Have they

got the right equipment? I am worried about this because we are

sending young people up and it is scary. I was watching a BBC Three

documentary that got into the lives of the soldiers and they are just

like us, watching the same films, listening to the same music. Four

of them died and they were there for one month. A sex! Sorry. But it

is over 400 soldiers. -- 6! need to ask the people in

Afghanistan what they want. A lot of people want us to get out. Maybe

it is a case of having a trial period or something. I do

understand your point that the Government did it. That happened.

You should not just leave them. But it is a thing where, you know, we

are in someone else's country, and maybe we should come out and give

them a chance to sort it out. If they need help, then give them help.

We are not even getting it right here. That is the problem, man.

Esther talks about seeing the job through bubble we hear about in

newspapers is cutting the Ministry of Defence budget constantly. --

but all we hear about. We are cutting the budget constantly. If I

did not give money to my business, it would get nowhere. The minister

of defence budget, yes, but the war comes from the Treasury budget

which has not been reduced and it has cost �4.8 billion this year and

�18 billion in total. So there have not been any cuts there. You are

quite right, before we ever going to any war, you have to say why?

What is it about? It has to be the very last thing you do because at

the end of the day it is live so that you are putting on the --

lives that you are putting on the line in this country and abroad.

How difficult is this for the Government? You are talking to the

Taliban but things like this are happening. We came in after this

had already started. How do we put the army in, sustainable Government,

education? And how do we move out and still offer the port where it

is needed? That is vital. -- offer support. We need some comments from

people at home. I like this, it. Just get our lads out there. I

think lots of people think like that. People are also saying that

it is sad to see all of the people die in, however this should be a

wake-up call for the Government. Does anybody think it is the right

thing for our Government and our country to be doing? We are already

in Afghanistan, whether it is right or wrong. That is beside the point.

Strategic withdrawal is what it is about. If we just withdraw and have

that trial period, then those people's lives have been lost for

nothing. There are 10,000 soldiers up there for another three years.

Is that right? All the statistics, everything, he does not mean

anything. Why are they even there in the first place? I am sure that

the whole country heard about the six personnel and I am sure the

audience's thoughts go to their family, but what I want to know is

why the Government is trying to police the whole world? We have

been to Iran, Libya, Syria soon. Why is the Government not using

those resources and the finances for young people's services and

youth clubs? Sorry, there is not time. When people come to you,

dying on the street and asking for help you do not turn the other

cheek. I think that debate is the right place to leave it. Sorry that

we could not finish things off but time is against us. You can join us

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