Episode 11 Free Speech

This is Free Speech, your chance to have your say about what matters to

Good evening and welcome to Free Speech, the only show that lets you

tell the panel your views on what's going on. I'm Rick Edwards, tonight

we are at Hope University in Liverpool.

Personally, I'm just pleased to be here. Tina Daheley almost missed

her last train because of Justin Bieber's tardiness. Good evening,

I'm here to let you have your say. Please get your laptops, tablets

and phones ready for me and get on and phones ready for me and get on

line with the BBC, Facebook or Twitter. Here are the addresses you

need. Tell me your opinions. You need to activate the Power Bar

which you can see behind me and respond in real time to watch you

think of the panel's opinions via think of the panel's opinions via

Twitter, so use # Yes or #at No. She has come a long way from

working in Nando's and Harrow. She won Best solo female artist at the

Brits in 2008. She has a new album out. She is Kate Nash.

His Conservative MP at last week he called on the BBC to open up its

spending for scrutiny. It is Alun Cairns.

Shias Liverpool Council's spokesperson for young people, she

was born and raised in Croxteth, where she was a councillor. She

says, the only time -- the first time she ever voted was for herself.

Why not? She is Steph Till. Officially he is research director

at the think tank the Adam Smith Institute, and officially, it means

he is responsible for blue-sky thinking. He is Sam Bowman.

Let's get started. A report published this week shows the

numbers of young people owning their own homes has plummeted

dramatically in the last 20 years. Who here owns their own home? Two!

Out of this number. That is not a surprise. The number of 16 to 24

year-old owning a home has dropped by more than half, and in the 25 to

34 age group it has dropped by a third. But in Liverpool the council

has very cheap houses for sale. How much do you think these are going

for? It has been in the press, they are going for �1. You would have

had to register interest by 5pm today, but which you want to buy a

house like that? Generally no. Where is will be live? You have a

question about housing. Should the Government subsidise housing

payments for first-time buyers? Kate? Our subsidies the answer?

Firstly, I have, like, a lot of friends in their 20s coming into

their 30s that just are so far away from being able to buy a house. It

seems sort of like a dream. Definitely not a reality for a lot

of people around my age. The reason I was able to buy a house is

because I had a hit record. I was only 19. That is not the case for

everybody, obviously. And I think that... I have friends even in

their 30s that have had solid careers for a we be long time but

are still nowhere near being able to buy a house because it is just

so expensive. I think one thing that really comes to mind is, like,

rent is extremely expensive, so a lot of people I know have no

ability to even saved because, you know, they are doing what we are

talking about earlier, working for free, trying to do everything to

get the careers they really want and the future they want, then

spending all their money on living in London. Rent is extremely

expensive in London. There is just no... They can barely meet -- make

their rent each month so there is no... There is no room for it.

They're definitely needs to be something done to, like, help

people. Because, I don't know, it is just so different to, like, my

parents' generation. There are hundreds of reasons why it is

different but we can't ignore the problem, and people need help. I'd

just read about there is a council tax being introduced on April 1st,

like, for people having to pay arm, like, secondary and third

properties that they own. What are the council going to do with that

money? Well it's going to building affordable homes for the community?

It sounds like a really great scheme, selling a house for �1, but

nobody here probably has the money to build up a home from the

condition it is in, so it would be like going into living in a squat,

I guess. So, yeah, something needs to be done to help people. People

do need help, what can the Government do to give that help,

Alun? In the first instance, housing, and renting or buying a

house, is the biggest problem facing so many people - be it young

people, young families or even older people. Buying a home, so

long as somebody can get a mortgage, is cheaper than renting. The rate

at which rent has increased over the last five years or more has

been astronomical. It is really a difficult issue. There are lots of

related issues, one is that the banks need to lend money, it is the

rate at which they lend, the availability of money, because the

criteria is set so high. They are refusing to lend money. Secondly,

it is about the planning system which needs to be freed up in many

areas. Builders need clarity so they know if they put an

application in one area they are likely to succeed in their

application, and if they will put an application in another area they

know they won't get planning permission, so there needs to be

greater clarity. And the economy needs to be moving. Building and

construction is really important in that. Gordon Brown said just before

the last general election that he thought that housing was a private

sector a shoe. The private sector would provide and people would rent

or buy out to bat. Although I am on the centre-right of politics, even

I thought that was harsh. It is an idea of something to get to, but

the Government needs to step in the. There are lots of things going on,

supporting builders, offering them guarantees, social housing,

building more social housing. It somebody exercises the right to buy

underrate discounted scheme there is a guarantee that another social

house will be built. Then there is the issue of under occupancy and

overcrowded housing. That is a separate debate fundamental to the

whole problem. Who should be helping young people get on the

property ladder, then? I think when you sell off a public sector house,

I think you should build another public sector house. That guarantee

has been made. Any new social housing being sold now, a new one

will be built. You, sir? What about replacing all the stop we lost when

right-to-buy came in the first time? We lost a huge amount. It

needs to be replaced, we don't have enough housing for people. That is

a fair point, but the position got worse over the last decade or more.

Social housing was not built. Gordon Brown thought it was just a

private sector issue one transaction. That is not good

enough and the Government has its significance part to play. It is

about supporting communities in terms of allowing properties to be

built, supporting builders in terms of making his house is available,

having a much more flexible approach to development so that we

can have a relatively high prospects of social accommodation

within any new developments being made. Steph, is it a private sector

issue? I don't think so. Something that we are dealing in Liverpool at

the moment which is really innovative is that we've got the �1

housing, which is, I think, so many people went, oh, no, I'd never move

into one, but it is a fantastic opportunity to get onto the

property ladder for �1, renovate. It is not creating houses, it is

creating homes. We want you to stay in them for the next five years, we

will be checking to make sure this is not taken advantage of by rogue

landlords. But as a local authority we will be offering an indemnity, a

guarantee, to homebuyers where we as a council... Normally, if you

move into a property, to save a deposit, we are paying massive

rents and in jobs not paying enough, so to get a deposit together is

nigh on impossible. So where people struggled in the past when mortgage

lenders are not lending and now they say you need a 25% deposit, we

as a local-authority a saying that we will back you up in conjunction

with our partners in the banking industry that we have got and we

will back your loan up and guarantee it, essentially. We will

hold money in reserves and guarantee you so you can get your

foot on the property ladder. As a local authorities that is

innovative. Other local authorities, as far as I'm concerned, need to

see what we are doing and take that forward. What are people saying

online, Tina? There has been a huge response all week, ranging from

people blaming the banks, agreeing with Alun, saying that banks need

to start lending. Another group of people are saying that 16 to 24

year-olds don't aspire to having This USA's it depends on money

management, how committed you are. -- this viewer says. Sam, does it

depend on commitment? No, we have a crisis in housing. Worst of all for

young people, we have a rental crisis, rents are increasing every

year. The problem is a lack of supply. The planning system

strangles the construction of new homes, particularly affordable

homes, because the electoral calculus is there for politicians

to block every new development will stop if you own your home, new

houses being built in your area decrease the value of your home, so

voters in every area have the interest to vote for councillors

who will block developments, so homeowners are strangling the

property market. What we should do is move to a system where

development rights are auctioned off so that you have various

different bits for this, and the money does not to the council but

to local residents, so they have a reason to want a new houses built

in their area. Fundamentally, housing should not be especially

expensive, it should not increase in prize every year. It should

decrease as things get cheaper. There is a very, very fixed supply

of housing, increasing demand, and the Housing Benefit that the

Government gives is basically a subsidy to private landlords, it in

no way helps people who are renting, it just drives up prices. Get rid

of green-belt protection so that we can build outside our cities so

that places like London can increase in size and people come by

affordable homes at low density areas, because those are the houses

people want. -- people come buy affordable homes in low density

areas. Allows supply to reach demand and you won't have a housing

crisis. APPLAUSE some big ideas from that panel is.

from that panel is. I have seen you hovering over the

Power Bar. Time to find out what people at home think of what you

have said so far. Let's fire up the Power Bar. It is between Kate and

Sam at the moment, neck-and-neck. Sam at the moment, neck-and-neck.

That could all change. Let's talk to Aaron. What do you

think the fundamental problem is with the housing? I think the

problem is that not everybody can rely on the Bank of mum and dad. So

by banks not lending money to first-time buyers, deposits is

therefore a massive problem. The second thing is, going back to

whether the state should help those get on the property ladder, I find

it a moral issue where by the coalition governments is reducing

housing welfare for the most deprived, socially deprived within

society, so therefore for them to turn around and help those in the

private sector, I've got a moral In an ideal world, yes, the state

could intervene. But I've been given the economic crisis we are in,

I don't think there's any position for the state. So the

responsibility lies with the banks? What about you, sir?

I did not expect to agree with Alun, but I agreed strongly with one

point, the Government need to do more. Especially in terms of these

schemes that they have rolled out such as First By a, they have been

really insignificant. I remember reading an article saying if we

wanted enough affordable new builds for people to live in we'd have to

build 300,000 houses per year. Since September we have only built

90,000. Your government has only built 90,000. I have so many

friends who have come out of university with a degree and around

the first steps of their career and they are still living with mum and

dad. It is so hard to get onto the property ladder and the Government

is not doing enough. One final point, I read another article which

says that in terms of the amount of new bills that this Government is

building, it is the same level as it was in the 1920s. The 1920s, the

I don't believe that is a help to people. These houses were

compulsorily purchased. It is about breaking up the community. This as

being an agenda. The bedroom tax is the same thing. Basically, it is

about stopping the working-class people from living in the community

where they grew up. According to the echo and the Guardian, they are

also going to be allowing private landlords to purchase these houses.

How is that helping young people on to the property ladder?

A point From Tom contradicts what Does that chime with anyone?

I recently had my 18th birthday. I opened a separate account where I'm

putting a lot of savings, so, all the money I'm getting for jobs, I

am going to put into that account. Hopefully, when I graduate when

that will help me a lot with getting on the property ladder.

It is never going to be enough. What you are earning will never be

enough. If the banks were to be more lenient with their lending or

borrowing, it is going to be much easier. You have to prove, if you

want to buy the houses for �1, that you can do them up. If the banks

are not lending, how can you get a loan to prove that you are able to

do it up? The same with the bedroom tax. I work in housing. I know some

associations that, if their occupants don't pay their rent for

six weeks, they are going to go under because of the lack of cash

flow coming into the business. They can't borrow the cash flow because

the banks aren't lending even to businesses. It is going to be an

onslaught. Tina, what is happening online? Amelia would agree with

Stephen Wood agreed with the And aid in says: -- Adrian.

Remember, if you want your point of you made, you have to make it first.

Let's move on to our next topic. Britain is the fact his country in

Europe. Almost two-thirds of adults are overweight or obese. A report

yesterday shows we can expect a shorter healthy life expectancy

than many other countries. Both the NHS and our lifestyles get the

blame. The country's most eminent doctors are saying that junk food

ads should be banned until 9pm. The only sensible response to this was

to head down the chippy. I work, I earn my money, I should

spend it on what I want. People find it easier to eat junk food

because it is cheaper. government should encourage people

to eat healthily from a younger age. Obesity is a big problem in the UK.

Therefore, I think the governor should take more action on it.

the government puts prices up, it would suck. It is going to make

people poorer. Wouldn't stop me from buying chips. If they were

more expensive, I was told by chips because I don't think the tax is

going to be high enough to put me off. Are we still eat chips. But I

would not be happy about it. think the government should leave

chips alone. We have got a question from Jade. Do you think it would be

more beneficial to lower the price of healthy food rather than

Not often you get a round of applause for a question. No, I

don't. It is cheap to eat healthily. If you live on McDonald's all week,

you would be broke. People eat fatty foods because it tastes nice.

Countries have tried fat taxes before. Denmark tried it. It

abandoned its last year after only one year because it was so

unpopular. Fat taxes hit the poorest hardest. It would take

seven times of a poor person's income than a big person's. The

people who pay and fill a chunk of their income going on those who on

low incomes. It comes down to a moral issue. Should people have the

freedom to be fat? I am not happy about being fat, I would not want

to be fat, but I enjoy eating fatty foods. Only an individual can make

the decision for themselves, whether it is worth drinking a can

of Coke or going to the chippy and putting on a few pounds. All of

these are individual decisions. The statistics about obesity growth, by

we, are bogus. Doctors pretend they know how fat bidder are going to be

in 30 years. They tied -- tried to project it in the mid- point of the

last decade. They could not predict it over four years. You were

shaking your head a bit, Jade. I agree with some of the points,

but I think the first is ridiculous. It is a lot more is pensive to buy

healthy food. As a student, a lot of my friends tried to eat

healthily. But you can make your own lasagne. I can make most things.

I am a good cook. But vegetables are a lot more expensive than

Swedes. It is just how it is. I go, carrots are 10p for a

kilogram. It is more expensive to eat healthily, it just is. Steph, I

think you agree with Jade. I represent a ward with high levels

of deprivation. It is not cheaper to eat healthily. How much does

meet costs? I would encourage anybody to go out and support local

business. It would be fantastic if we could support greengrocer's in

our community, etc. However, if it cost you �4 to buy the mince or a

lasagne, or you can buy one for �1, you will buy it there. It is

cheaper. Meat is more expensive. You go to a supermarket and what is

on offer is always the fizzy things. I have done them all, all the diets

going, and I know how expensive these things are. Water is free.

are not talking about fizzy drinks. We are. I'm talking about catering

for a family. It is a lot more expensive. Fruit and apples and

things are �2 for a bag. You get five apples in them. If you have

got two kids, that will do you half a day perhaps. It is expensive to

feed your family healthily. I'm a mother of two and I know it is

expensive to feed kids. I totally agree. I think what you are saying

is dead right. It is about not increasing the price off unhealthy

foods, because all that will do is make the fat people poorer. We are

already poor in the first place, probably. What we need to do is

look at the reduction of healthy food, I think.

What do the online community say, Tina? Listeners have been talking

online. Adam would agree with you, Ali, it is it the government's

responsibility to tackle obesity? - - Alun. The government has a

responsibility to educate, to make the information available. It must

make sure that schools teach young people how to put the basic

ingredients together so they can cater and care for themselves

instead of buying the ready-made We teach kids how to cook food they

can't afford. I believe the basic foodstuffs are cheaper than the

ready-made food, whether they are frozen or chilled. Coming back to

your question, the demand has a responsibility to make sure that

people are educated and that the information is available. -- the

Government. I opposed a fizzy drinks tax on that basis. A sugary

drink might be healthy for one person but it might not be healthy

for another person. When we are talking about having cheaper,

healthier foods, well, something that is healthy for one person is

not necessarily for another person. We have got to be realistic about

this and people have to accept responsibility themselves. If they

eat the wrong things, they get fat. They need to have the information

to make that judgment for themselves so they can eat the

things that best suit their metabolism and lifestyles. Would

you support a tax on fizzy drinks, Kate? I agree that there are ways

of cooking healthily for a little money. The problem is, I don't

agree it is a moral issue. I don't think people think, oh, I want to

be fat. But I think what we just talked about is the fact that

people, their rent is very expensive, they have not got a

future of buying a home, they are slogging away, working for free, to

get a career. We live like faster than ever. Everything is instant.

People can contact us at all hours. I know that if I'm tired and busy,

I get home late and I think, I can't be bothered to cook. I have

the ability. I grew up cooking with my mum. But it is washing up I have

to do. It is an hour making a meal, it will be midnight by the time I

eat. I think it will be quicker to get a takeaway. It is not like a

choice. People have responsibility to decide to be a healthy person.

We all go through phases of being unhealthy. But marketing and

advertising works. I watched an advert for, like, KFC, and a credit

- and I am vegetarian! If we are talking about making fizzy drinks

more expensive, that seems really like a silly idea. It does not seem

like it is going to solve obesity. Healthy food stores are seen as

more expensive and they are marketed in a way where it is to

the middle classes. We need advertising on other options. If we

are going to make unhealthy options more expensive, I want to see

healthy advance being marketed to deem -- the working classes. Up a

whole is taxed heavily for many reasons, and yet people still drink

heavily. -- alcohol. It is down to everybody accept responsibility

themselves. There's a food crisis in this country. It is because food

banks exist. The government should focus on the fact that people can't

Does anybody here support the idea of attacks on fizzy drinks or fatty

foods? Yes. But the foods it should be levied on should not be based on

calorific content but based on saturated fat, additives and the

sodium content. Sir Jim has been connected with heart disease, which

is a huge burden on the NHS -- na has been connected with heart

disease. Does that resonate with anyone? I'm saying that this

country is far too will be taxed in the first place, it doesn't need

another tax. People are struggling, as the lady from Liverpool rightly

said, to feed the families. Let's make food cost even more(!) It is

stupid, we don't need more tax, we need last tasks. -- less tax.

a project in the north-east and we have to go about the daily to

people who can't afford to buy it, we started a project because we had

girls coming and had been 10 packets of 10p crisps for their

dinner. That is happening in this country. We started giving out free

to, they came and they liked it and they went home and asked for it. --

we started giving out fruit. I totally agree that there is a food

crisis in this country. My mum works in a school with quite

young children and came home one day and told me, oh, my God, the

kids didn't know that Bacon came from pigs or that pigs lived on a

far more what's a farm was, or that you can grow food. I think there is

a massive missing link in education. I know that plants gold -- grow in

the grounds and you can pull carrots out, but there might be a

large group of children growing up in the country who have had no

experience of that. There are fields in schools, surely we can

grow vegetables? So it is an issue of education? Tina Daheley? Craig

and Aaron both agree with each other and say taxing fast food will

just a poor people poorer. Craig says taxing fast food and fizzy

drinks is like taxing alcohol. Punishing the poor, the rich won't

notice. Maggie says, the Government never

encourage young kids to eat more healthily, it is the job of the

parents. Rebecca, a whole pizza for parents. Rebecca, a whole pizza for

�1 or one red pepper for 80p. Cheap junk is the reason for obesity.

Probably a good time to look at the Power Bar again. Steph, you have

Get on Twitter, tell our panellists Make your voice heard on Free

Speech, tweet the Power Bar. Jake Bugg, Jessie J, Jimmy Carr,

Eddie Izzard, stay tuned to BBC Three and you will see them all and

many more big names. At 10pm, Russell Brand is hosting depict up

for Comic Relief, and here is the man himself. -- Give it Up for

Comic Relief. There are loads of really good artists, such as Noel

Gallagher. Paloma faith, she is all right. There will be loads of good

comedians, I will be hosting. It will be a brilliant night at

Wembley Arena. All of the money goes towards buying drugs... No!

Helping people with drug and alcohol addiction.

I a funny man and a lovely man. Liverpool has always been at the

forefront of the fightback against addiction and has been hailed as

the recovery capital of Britain. Becky and Ben have fought their own

battles against drugs. Once I tried the first drug, I lost the fear of

drugs because I thought, well, this one did not kill me, I will try the

next one, maybe that one won't. We are a group of addicts in

recovery. We support and help each other. I started smoking cannabis.

I tried when I was 10. I went on to LSD. Cannabis at 12. Speed, cocaine

and ecstasy. At 19, I was using heroin and then smoking crack.

moved on to heroin. I went to prison because I used to thieved to

fund my habit. Going to jail did not stop me taking drugs. It was

obviously meant as a deterrent but my behaviours were never looked up.

My mum crying constantly didn't stop me taking drugs. The only

thing that worked was a 12 Step programme, for me. 30 days cleans a

day. Well done. A divorce complete abstinence from all drugs. I think

a lot of society perceives addicts as bad people. I don't think they

realise it is an illness that needs treating and these people need

counselling. I have been clean for 20 months. I think it is imperative

to get rehab and emotional support. I would not say getting clean it is

easy, but it is a life beyond my wildest dreams. If I hadn't gone

through the 12 Steps process, I would be dead. My life today is

quite amazing. Inspirational stories from Becky

and Ben. We asked our Facebook and Twitter crowd which question they

wanted answered on addiction. What did they go for? His drug addiction

a medical or criminal issue? I will start with you, Jessie, you run an

addiction charity funded by Comic Relief. What is your approach?

we think it is medical. I started the project 10 years ago when I

found a 13 year-old addicted to heroin and a 15 year-old on the

streets because of her problem. There was a quote from one of our

clients when I was trying to get to the bottom of what she was going on

and why she was on the streets, she said, we were just messed-up kids

looking for a buzz, and I never knew it would turn out like this. I

feel like I am being abused every time I go out there, and I wanted

to stop. I take that on board. How can we say that is a criminal

behaviour? That is someone who needs help. We have to answer the

question about we were messed-up kids looking for a bus, we have to

deal with the root causes of why the kids are saying they are messed

up in the first place. APPLAUSE Jesse very clearly saying it is not

a criminal issue. Would you agree, Sam? Absolutely.

Drug addiction is a totally personal issue. And now the state

tries to put those people into prison. Those people often get

sucked into crime and criminal gangs that they would not been

bought with otherwise. Looking around the world, Portugal has

decriminalise drugs, even higher when and crack cocaine. They

provide very good treatment centres and treatment resources for people

who need it. Since they have done that in the last 10 years, they

have seen declines in crime, HIV related to drug use, declines in

drug addiction. The cycle of drug addiction is not there any more.

When yourself harm your breaking the law. We should be trying to

bring it into the open. Should we legalise all drugs? We should

legalise all drugs. In 50 years we will look back at this period as

the way we did on prohibition America. Criminal gangs profit from

the sales of drugs. When we legalise, it allows us to have much

clearer oversight over what goes into the drugs. The Government is

also tricking people into doing these things. Almost everybody

knows somebody who has been to prison for taking drugs. Almost

everybody knows somebody who has taken drugs. They probably don't

think they deserve to go to prison. Steph looks furious. This is my

natural furious face. I completely disagree, I don't think drug should

be decriminalised. In all honesty, I don't think it matters. I think

drugs will exist whether they are decriminalised or not to. I don't

think it is on their radar, to be perfectly honest. There is a

difference between drugs, I think, as a criminal issue, and addiction

is a health issue, that is the difference. I think we need to

target drug dealers and drug importers, but then we need to look

at these young people, all older people, who are addicted. I

represent an area which was ravaged by smack, by heroin, in the 80s and

90s. We feel the repercussions of that now. 20 years down the line we

are still feeling that. Legalising, as far as I am concerned, the

dealers will need to find a way of competing with the open market.

They will need to make their product in feria, they will start

mixing things with them, it will still exist. It won't go away just

because the law says you're all right to be here now, they will not

all start registering for bat and becoming legitimate businesses.

They will still exist in the same way and they will still exploit

adults -- addicts, that is what Many people online are shifting the

focus from drug users to taxpayers. Whalley says it is medical but if

you are stupid enough to do it in the first place, why should the

taxpayer pay? Catherine agrees, alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, food

etc, all addictions are a burden on the NHS.

Let's talk to you quickly, Greg. You are, I'm assuming, pro the

legalisation of drugs? I think it is ridiculous that we have failed

to regulate any so-called illegal drugs. We regulate pharmaceutical

drugs, we don't criminalise people prescribed those who become addicts.

You can be prescribed opiates, I was, I have Crohn's disease. I used

cannabis to treat it now because it is safer than using the opiates. I

don't have a regulated markets for my access to cannabis but I have

access to criminals who will take money off a 12 year-old because it

has a picture of the Queen's face on it. If you regulate cannabis or

other drugs which are harmful or dangerous to a vulnerable age group,

you will not have to us on the streets, because no idiot in a

right mind would buy from them if they can buy from somebody where

they know what they are getting. Dealers will not be cutting it with

talcum powder and all this other stuff if they regulate these things,

it will not be the case, there will be a lot less dealers on the street.

We don't criminalise people addicted to tobacco or alcohol, we

criminalise people in their addiction which creates bad

behaviours like stealing and abusiveness. Steph, you're making

the space again. I can't help it, I totally disagree. -- Steph, you're

making that face again. I think dealers will still exist, they will

need to find other ways to exist. Drugs will change, develop and

become more dangerous. I didn't think that I would agree with Steph

on hardly anything, but I passionately agree with what she

has said on this issue. I think the law is pretty clear and we have

just seen a video of two people talking about starting on cannabis

and moving on to harder drugs, it is a slippery slope that we are

facing. When it comes down to whether it is medical or criminal,

I think that someone is arrested or seeks support it needs to be

treated in the first instance as a medical condition. Every form of

support and resource should be given in order to try to bring them

off the habit. If that is rejected and the abuse persists without good

reason then it needs to be dealt with as a criminal offence in the

same way. It can take an addict several times... The idea that

criminal gangs will still flourish when something is illegal is

completely ignorant of history. After prohibition ended in America,

those criminal groups lost their business, why would you buy alcohol

from a criminal when you can buy it on the High Street? APPLAUSE I can

easily say I have never done cannabis, but the reports are that

cannabis 20 years ago is very different to cannabis now.

All the more reason to bring it out into the open. Absolutely not. It

is anecdotal evidence, granted, but we saw from those people that they

ended up on harder things. So what you put these people into prison? -

- would you put these people into prison? I've just said that the law

is pretty clear, if someone is addicted and is seeking help does

matter is seeking help or was arrested because of the drugs, they

need the help to help them kick the habit. After that, if that is

shunned... There are thousands of people in prison for drug offences.

It is a sin, it is a crime against this country that they are in

prison for something they should be given treatment for, not being put

into prison. But one that is rejected and shunned, it needs to

be dealt with as a criminal offence. -- when that is rejected. Let's

hear from Ben. If you are going to decriminalise cannabis, you might

as well decriminalise all drugs. But that does not take the point

away from addiction. Forget that I was addicted to any other drug, I

was addicted to alcohol as well. If I am an addict, I will get addicted

to something. There. We are trying to make is what are we going to do

about addiction? -- the. We are trying to make. I work with a dance

company which is totally underfunded. Where do we get the

funding? It plays a major part in our recovery. There needs to be

more done. Addicts need practical help. Putting them into jail for a

crime with no -- no victim other than themselves, if they did not

there would be more money for treatment, giving people those

options. A few people are, like, I smoke cannabis, I take heroin, I

drink alcohol, let's have it legalised. I've got Crone --

Crohn's disease. My dad has got Crohn's disease, he does not blaze

but. That is your justification, mate. There are no simple answers

and jail is the simplest answer. And it ruins the lives of people

and families. It costs money and makes the whole situation worse.

Let people talk about it openly, give them information and let them

We need to look at why people turn to drugs. A lot of the time, they

will get people off drugs and there's no support afterwards. Our

dance company is not funded. We need help to help people in

recovery. Where is the practical help coming from? Where is Anthony?

You are a drugs and alcohol Liaison Officer. You are in A&E at the

weekends. The idea is that for young people under the age of 19,

we pick them up when they are first coming in with alcohol or drug use,

and they are referred to me to get an assessment, and they get access

to treatment earlier. The idea is that for every �1 you spend on

young people's services, you save �3 in the long run. The difficulty

it, again, is funding. We are funded by Red Nose Day. But it is

about funding. It is about putting it in the right places to support

the right people. You were dead right when you say it is not just,

it is about dealing with the core issue, but then helping somebody to

build a life without drugs or building a life where they use less

drugs and it has less of an impact on their lives.

It should not be about legalising drugs. It should be about fixing

the social causes, why people turn to drugs. We are going to have to

wrap this up. We could talk about this all night. Tina, any online

comments? Lows. We need to target drug dealers. -- loads. Lots of

people agreeing with Alistair and Matthew. They reflect a lot of the

audience. Alastair says, being debated is a medical problem, but

choosing to take the drug is criminal and your own choice. --

being addicted. Matthew says it is a criminal and social it sue --

issue. Judy's comment - I find it interesting that we had different

views on those who are addicted on food to those who are addicted to

drugs. Steph, you have slipped back because of your views against

legalising drugs. Alun is still struggling for popularity. The

others are neck and neck. We are going to have to me at it on

now. Time is running out. You could be the Conservatives into third

place in the Eastleigh by-election. -- UKIP beat the Conservatives.

Nigel Farage claims people feel mainstream politicians are unable

to keep their promises. Catherine, where are you? By-elections always

go against the government. Are replacing too much importance on

the result in Eastleigh? What do we think, Steph?

I think it has got to be noted, that kind of result. But I agree. I

was elected in a by-election on to the council, which then brings

everybody out. There's more publicity about a by-election. I

think we need to take notice of that. The public are getting fed up

of politics. They are getting fed up of politicians. They are getting

fed up of seeing the same faces sitting in a big room, saying, that

is your fault, your administration did that. The public are sick of it.

When somebody comes in with a fresher voice and no accountability,

because when you are one of the big three you don't have the same kind

of accountability because you are not in power and you're not in

opposition. Essentially, you can say whatever you want that will

carry favour. If you are the public, who are sick and tired of hearing

what he is saying and I am saying, I am saying there's a fresher voice.

A lot of it can be a protest vote. But that does a disservice to the

public. We have to recognise they are going somewhere else because

there's something wrong with us. What are we doing to address the

issue? Kate, are we falling out of love with politics? People are not

being engaged in the right way, firstly. I remember when I mum,

Tony Blair got into power, and she passionately had gone around trying

to get people to support Labour. bet she regrets it now! She regrets

voted for somebody that totally let her down. If you have been let down

by the three main parties, who all have different things to say and

then act in the same way, you know, walk the walk and then don't talk

the talk. How can a new -- you expect to engage young people? I

remember going to Prime Minister's Question Time. I was 15 and I went

in to watch these grown ups arguing. It really was just arguing. It

reminded me of the friends I had to went to private school and sat on

the train making fun of each other in a really know the way. They were

just scoffing. I was shocked. I could not believe these are the

people who run the country. I was 15! I felt I could have done a

better job. You are just not engaging with youth culture. All of

these people are here today because they care about politics. Politics

is not broken. Politics is alive. But it is just getting people to

engage in government. That is a different thing. We have got some

young at you keep members in. Where is Robin? A good result. -- UKIP

members. To go back to eat you calling us a protest vote, there's

a lot to protest about. UKIP came second in Eastleigh. A fantastic

result. But this is not the first by-election we came second in. We

came second in Middlesbrough, and we did well in Corby. Young people,

in particular, are looking to it UKIP as a new political force. A

lot of people are looking at us as an old Tory grid. That is not true

at all. It is not true at all! Will take the votes of Labour and the

Lib Dems. That was clear in Rotherham. We are into a new era of

politics. UKIP is there to fix the broken old politics. UKIP is on the

rise. The gentleman behind the had his eyes close for a lot of that. -

- behind you. It is foolish to think that the fall of the Lib Dems

is anything to a -- is due to anything other than that the Lib

Dems used to be the protest party and are now the establishment. The

three main parties are much more part of the Establishment. I am

sure that these guys are enjoying their moment in the limelight. I

hope they enjoy it while it lasts. Alun. Was this result a worry for

your party? By-elections are different. When a government is

trying to make some difficult decisions, we have talked about

housing and drugs, we talk about all areas of public policy in the

economy, and it is tough out there. To get on top of the debt, people

are feeling the pinch. Living standards are not rising like we

would like them too. Therefore, people need to raise their voices.

That is what happened in Eastleigh. People left the Lib Dems, they left

the Conservative Party. When it comes to a general election, I

think people generally are interested in what happens in the

country. They are interested in the leading parties. This is an

opportunity to make a protest about what they are feeling at the moment.

That is only right and fair. Quickly, who feels politics is

broken? Who has lost faith? It is about the party's being fresh, but

I think you have to have fresh people as well. In America,

celebrities are really involved. They get there follow was to take

part. Like, Beyonce and other celebrities. Kate, his is something

you would consider doing? That is totally right. It brings a cool

element. When politicians try to act cool, it comes of embarrassing.

You want to get cool people involved. I definitely think that

is really important, yeah. In 1997, they did cool and it was cringe

worthy. We have too much celebrity culture in this country. We don't

need more. I agree. I think celebrity culture is like Gross.

Just because somebody is a celebrity doesn't mean they can't

have an opinion. They have a platform to inspire young people.

We're going to leave it there. You two can talk afterwards. Abigail

says people are not taught about politics. Oliver agrees and says,

politics and politicians are the fault. It is time for no more

politics of politicians. I'm not quite sure what he means! Let's

take a final look at the power bar to see if anything has changed. Sam,

you are the winner! Congratulations ex back -- congratulations!

I think the discussion about drugs and fat taxes is the thing that

makes me sad about politics, the thing that individuals don't matter

any more. Everybody has a plan from -- for how they want to live their

lives. What I would like is for people to take a step back, step

out of people's lives, a lovable to make their own decisions. Let's

have a smaller state, one that does That is almost it. We are running

late. We don't have time to discuss Justin Bieber. Never mind. Thank