Unemployment Crisis Free Speech

This is Free Speech. Your chance to have your say about what matters to

There's a lot going on. Good evening, welcome to Free Speech.

It's our first show of 2013 and a first for me, Rick Edwards. I'm

very happy to be here. And tonight, 'here' is the Brangwyn Hall, in

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followed by the first name of one And here is our panel. First, the

businesswoman who brought us Peachy Pink underwear and won herself

Britain's Best Female Asian Entrepreneur along the way. She's

She's a Welsh Assembly Minister and the leader of Plaid Cmyru. She's

socialist, republican, environmentalist, anti-racist,

feminist - I think you're going to Not the typical CV for a

Conservative MP - he was Rick Astley's guitarist, wrote songs for

Jason Donovan and owns a string of hairdressing salons. He's David

And finally, she's a journalist, she's co-author of Generation Vexed

- so she knows just how you feel - Right, let's get started. My first

debate - and it's a big one. Call them shirkers, call them strivers -

whatever you call them, there are more than one million young people

looking for work, and over a quarter of those have been

unemployed for over a year. While, overall, unemployment figures are

improving, long term youth unemployment figures continue to

cause concern. Here in Wales, the numbers have almost tripled since

2010. So meet Sam and Caitlin who are finding their own solutions to

All there is in the valleys in sheep, mountains and not many

opportunities. Since I left school, I had a bricklayer apprenticeship,

Engineering, welding, security. I have several GCSEs, or a BTEC in

interactive media. But I haven't been able to find a job even though

I left university in May. finished score on the Friday, I

went to the pit on Monday, I asked for a job under started on Tuesday.

It is all closed now. I have applied for more than 200 jobs. Out

of all that, I only had two interviews. They have a grant that

they can give each person that joins, the money I am planning to

use as a money incentive to give to employers to hire me. I was

wondering if you have any jobs going? A three years ago I signed

up with a government scheme, that is how I got my security licence.

Friday and Saturday are work in Bristol as a door supervisor.

Hopefully in Doak future I see myself having a stable Coria, if I

wanted badly, I will have to make sacrifices. What do you want to

Oscar the panel? Is a David? As you will see, I have done everything to

find work. But people in the government label the unemployed

shirkers. Is that the truth? are not a shirker at all. What we

are trying to do is get people off the dole queues and into work. You

have probably seen recently, the court case that because yesterday

where a young lady said she was enforced into slavery at Poundland.

At the end of the Daily if you are going to be looking for work, you

are claiming benefits, we try and get you into some kind of mode of

working. There is nothing wrong in that because if you sit back and

you vegetate, this is exactly what you're going to do. I have been

employed -- unemployed three times, I went on a scheme which is enacted

now, it has been very successful. Unemployment is coming down, and

what can I say? You make your own luck in this world. I did myself.

You were looking on with interest, do you think you make your own

luck? I think it is he's used to blame unemployed people to beat --

for being unemployed. High levels of unemployment are in certain

places and there are low levels of unemployment elsewhere. So in the

central valleys, it is around 28% of homes that have nobody working

with them at all. In Swansea, it is about 68%. Yet in Oxfordshire, the

figures are around 8%. So there is a difference in terms of where you

live. My party, Plaid Cymru, has argued strongly in the National

Assembly for Wales, for the government at Welsh level and you

can level to prioritise jobs and unemployment because we cannot

afford to lose an entire generation like we did in the 1980s after the

What do you make of those opinions? I am biased, but I totally agree

with Lehane. In the 1980s, the coal industry, everything closed down

because of Maggie Thatcher. But South Wales was the world's biggest

coal export at the time. And they still have 30 years' worth of coal

left in them, if they were still open, I don't know if they would be

more jobs, but debris be stringing of more skills and apprenticeships.

I would say we need to think in the future about clean, green

industries, not thinking about Cole, because in the future we need to

make sure people have the skills to do the renewable technology.

Another pool I would like to make on that is the assembly in Wales

doesn't have the resources it, we could have a stronger economy and

more people in work if the National Assembly had powers over energy.

Do you feel you do can make your own luck? Have you been to the

valleys? I am from a town very similar to you, I left school at 16,

I became a hairdresser's apprentice, within three years I was working

for an international company. The government can help you but it is

up to yourself to help yourself. There are not many apprenticeships

out there these days because everything is being shipped

overseas. There was a factory in the South Wales area, they have

loads of jobs, they could have offered apprenticeships but they

should be tough to China. It is the same, there is a Ford factory down

here, it is closed off because it has gone overseas. I used to work

as a security guard and they shut half of that down. Shazia Awan, you

are an entrepreneur, how did you go about making your own luck? I don't

think there is such a thing as making your own luck because the

situation that young people across Wales and the UK are facing at the

moment is absolutely appalling. We have had the highest increase in

long-term youth unemployment than any other country in the G8 and we

haven't weathered the crisis well. But I do think that if you work

hard and if you are positive in your outlook, then you can do

anything, whatever you said your mind to. The Prince's Trust delight

of great work, there was a survey out that they did, 71% of young

people say that his course they're not taught anything about

entrepreneurship -- in schools. Britain is great because of the

many industries we have had over the years and it is a failing of

the education system that we are not teaching entrepreneurship, and

businesses in schools. That is what we should be doing, businesses are

the lifeblood of the economy, not the government. So we need to be

looking at educating in schools about how to get into business.

many young people would set up businesses if they had the

opportunity. I'm originally from Caerphilly, there are lots of

communities where it is a problem, the parents and grandparents are

unemployed. What are people saying online? It is getting heated on

Who thinks that kids are lazy? I'm going to come to you. I did put my

hand up, then you changed the question! The issue is not that

there are jobs out there, but there are people going for the same jobs.

The question becomes how do young people go and get the jobs that are

out there. It is about becoming more employable, getting on back-

to-work schemes, the jobs are not going to come to you, you have to

make yourself employable. There was a Tesco in Cardiff that advertised

100 jobs and got 2000 applications, that is an open question, how do

you make yourself stand out? think some people could get into

voluntary work if they want... Me personally, I have been doing

voluntary work, it has helped me. So some people should get pushed

more, especially in schools. think they should be getting pushed,

doing apprenticeships, would do you think, Kieran Yates? Do you think

we had demonising young people as shirkers? Yes, I think it is an

easy way out to label people as shirkers. The only thing that

retreat service to do it is it turns society against each other,

and it is untrue. What we have seen is there is a future generation of

young people with a willingness to work, it is all well and good to

say you only have to work hard and you make your own luck or

whatever... I don't think it is true that people don't want to work.

But there is an element of laziness as well. Benefits are not great,

anyone who has experienced at first hand, it is not a fantastic

lifestyle of people sitting around as ladies of leisure. That is not

what being on benefit is like in reality. The way in which the

coalition has tried to combat this, with schemes like workfare, the

youth contract, is in centre biting businesses to take on young people

by giving them money -- incentive rising. Or by forcing them people

to work for free, and these are not And let the audience at home speak

now. Instant judgment time. Are you ready? Let's find out what the

viewers at home think of what you have said so far. Let's fire up the

I would like to talk to someone who has been unemployed for five months.

Lisa, what is your experience of the job-seeking process? I have

been in work many times and they have been tempered jobs and at the

end of the contract, I am looking for another job -- temporary jobs.

It is harder now. The other day I got a rejection letter saying they

had over 150 other applications. I have got the skills, I have been to

university and yet I still cannot get work. What is the answer and

then? How do we stand out? And I want to answer this by posing a

question to Leanne. Most jobs that are available off for skilled

tradesmen and the Welsh assembly given any will grant to students to

go to university, world nationals. With one-fifth of graduates unable

to find work, would you agree that taxpayers' money would be better

spent on apprenticeship schemes rather than bribing people to go to

university? You need to do both. There needs to be enough money to

support young people into higher education if that is what they want

but it is also important to support people in the vocational route, and

my party recently did a deal with the government in Wales to

guarantee �20 million a year for two years for additional

apprenticeships, and I am very keen to ensure that they are enabling

people to get skills in fields like engineering so we can consider how

we can create a manufacturing base to the economy again rather than

focus on things like financial services, which have got us into

the mess we are in now. We have mentioned apprenticeships a few

times now. I would like to speak to Beckett, a nursing apprentice. Do

you think you will get a job? really enjoying it so far. There is

the problem at the end, am I going to be employed? That is a problem

that I am concerned about. So in spite of doing an apprenticeship,

you feel it might lead to nothing? Hopefully not but we were see what

happens. Jade. You decided not to go to university. What did you do

instead? I went to the Welsh entrepreneur Academy, it gives you

the knowledge to set up your own business and it gives you a sponsor

who sponsors the �1,000 and guides you along the way as a mentor.

have found it a positive experience? Definitely. Shazia?

That is fantastic. Once we give young people the skills to set up

their own business, they are skills for life. I don't think it is the

answer with the government's new contract, which incidentally is a

business owned up I had never heard of. -- owner. Why had the fanfare

when Nick Clegg launched it in April last year -- I heard the

fanfare. I do a lot of work and none of the hundreds of businesses

are a work with had heard of that Yves there. The youth contract has

not been rolled out in Wales yet, as it. So this may change. Even so.

They have not even heard of it. We do business outside of Wales.

good point from Mikaela. She says, education used to mean a job.

However that is far from the case now. Yes to apprenticeships. A few

quick comments. Do people think apprenticeships are the way

forward? I am on the entrepreneurship course as well and

I travelled down from North Wales to Swansea. It is a good solution

but it is only in one place in Wales. They need to expand it.

And the only way they can get finance is through making it a BTEC

which means there is so many assignments that we do not get to

do the practical side as much as we should. So you think it should be

more vocational. OK. I want to get into the plumbing trade and it was

very difficult or stop you have to be in with an employer to begin

with and pay your own money. It was like there was false hope at the

end of it. You are stuck. obstacle to getting there in the

first place and you might not get there anyway. Yes. I think the

problem is, apprenticeships are built as a wonder weapon to end

unemployment but it is a case-by- case basis of stock my dad has a

heating company. The government does not need to get involved. What

is the point of putting a million people on to an apprenticeship when

they will not get a job at the end of it. Lots of messages coming in

and picking up on David's point about making your own luck.

Anonymous says: Some people have more luck than others. And bring it

British Industry bag, that is from Emma. -- bring the British industry

back. Back to you. Just a final comment

from you, David. You have heard what a lot of the young people on

saying. Do you think they have a point? Yes, but it must be noted

that employment has grown under this government. It was in free-

for-all under the last government. More people are going into public

sector work. The private sector was deprived. We are seeing it balance

out now and sadly the people who would normally go to the private

sector when they leave university, the jobs are not there. But to turn

its back on its head, have any of you thought of setting up your own

business? I set up my own business at 19. By that time I was 30 I had

a chain of salons. I had had a music career. Things do happen but

you have got to chase it. It was tough 20 years ago because the

country was on its knees after the then Labour government. The RMO had

to come in and bail us out! -- the RMO. We are now one of the

strongest economies in Europe and we are getting better with it. It

is OK looking towards the future. You are our future. Get out there,

seize the day, make the most of it, that is what it is about. That is

what I did, that is what you must do. He inspirational talk. If you

want your point of view it read out, Who has experienced treatment...

For many young women stepping outside means they face up to a

barrage of comments? People say we need to take responsibility of our

behaviour as women so if I go out in a short skirt and a boy touches

my bum, that is fine. Why should he not take responsibility for his

behaviour? I don't know, I will start again, if a boy whistles at

you, do you take that as a compliment? Where do you stop? When

they lift up your skirt? What is OK and what is not? Women go into a

club and guys think it is OK to pick you up. As in pick you up?

That is not OK. Exactly! People do not have respect for women if they

want to go out and look nice. Writer Laura Bates set up Everyday

Sexism and asked women to tweet examples of sexism and harassment

like the ones we've just heard, and received thousands of messages. She

told us why she did it. Often, when women complain about

sexism we are told to calm down, stop making a fuss, learn to take a

compliment. But since I started the Everyday Sexism project, 20,000

women have shared their stories of sexism and they are not all just a

harmless bit of fun. When you know that over 400,000 women are

sexually assaulted and 80,000 raped every year in the UK, I don't think

it is OK for or woman to be shattered dad and sexually

intimidated in the street, even if it is a more minor incident -- for

women to be shouted at. For one woman, it started as talk but ended

at sexual assault on her doorstep. It is the same ideas and attitudes

about women that make us excuse the small things but also add up to the

more serious ones. We must stand up to them all together.

But Joanna Lumley and Conservative MP Richard Graham have both spoken

out recently and said that women have to take responsibility for how

they look and behave. We have got a question about this. I would like

to ask, are young women in this country putting themselves at risk

by going out clubbing wearing provocative clothing? Shazia.

Absolutely. Let me make the point clear, I think it speaks volumes

about the attitude in this country that there was such an uproar and

people disagreed so heavily with Joanna Lumley. What she said was

right. You should not be going out dressed like a Hussey, there is no

other word for it. The you should not be throwing up in the gutter.

APPLAUSE Of. People judge you by your appearance. When you meet

somebody for the first time, they will judge you by your appearance,

by the tone of your voice and by the content of what you have to say.

If you are wearing a short skirt with your buttocks hanging out,

with your cleavage spilling over the top, with high heels, and you

are drunk, you are putting yourself at risk. We need to understand that

as women, we are vulnerable, and the sooner we take responsibility

for that, the better. Men also go out and get drunk. In Cardiff

especially, the high street is like a war-zone. When we have

international business clients visiting, I will go out of my way

not to take them anywhere near a UK high street because I think it

reflects really badly on the UK, and it is not just young people. It

is not attractive to be dressed in this way. Whoever decided that this

was an attractive look, the only way of Essex type of look, is

barking mad. It is better to look, you know, if you want to adopt a

look of somebody in the public eye, Kate Middleton, Pippa Middleton, it

is more sophisticated and it will get you further in life then going

out in a mini-skirt. That may well be true but getting back to the

point, is it inviting harassment to go out dressed like that?

Absolutely not. Joanna Lumley perpetuates this archaic notion of

what it is to be inappropriate as a woman and I do not think that we

should be listening and buying into that at all. I don't think it is

our responsibility as women to make the decision as to whether we wear

high heels or trainers because we may need to run away from someone.

Although we can run faster in trainers, we should not have to run

away from anything at all. It is not us that should be just aware of

all these things and harbouring this fear of not being safe on the

streets, we should be teaching our young men about how to behave

appropriately. APPLAUSE. This is really important

to say, the majority of men are kind, decent, intelligent human

beings that love and adore and respect women. It is a very small

proportion of men that actually treat women in this way. You have

projects like the Everyday Sexism project, and I have started to

follow them on Twitter, and I found it so depressing. It is women

effectively saying, this happened to me, this happen to me, and I get

harassed regularly but I answer back and it makes the man who said

the comment feel very small. Why aren't these women answering back?

Some passionate you points. Are people answering back online? --

viewpoints. 95% of people are saying sexism is prevalent every

A lot of hands up! Who agrees with Joanna Lumley? Yeah, I totally

agree with Joanna Lumley and Shazia. I think the problem, we have been

talking about the fact that women are the ones being abused, so

logically you have to think why? It is because of what they wear, it is

an open invitation, it is more provocative. Even though the men

are quite nice, as Shazia said... Not all men! The question is, if

you look at it logically, why is it women abused more than men? Because

of the way they dress. It is an open invitation. It is like that is

the food, it smells nice, I can go for it. It I do not like that

Sometimes you don't get the opportunity to say yes or no.

suppose I was a fairy moss is sexual assault the then general

sexist comments. Is there a link between this kind of casual sexism

and sexual assault? I'm going to go to you. Yes, it is usually women

who are drunk who often victimised by men. So I think it is more being

able to look after yourself and realise what is around you rather

than what you are wearing. So it is up to women to make more and be

responsible decision on how much they are drinking, maybe have their

friends lookout for the more. good point, you need to shift the

focus completely, and in said work on the attitudes of those who rape.

-- instead. Does the government take this sense of cash or sexism

that seems to be prevalent seriously? There are laws against

this. I was shocked to listen to the young ladies saying that you

were picked up, all manner of things going on, that is the sort.

There are laws to stop that. I think that a woman should be able

to where, within reason, whatever she wants, without the threat of

being assaulted in any shape or form. Are we not a civilised

nation? Are we just pandering to sexism? But it is not an issue of

what men wear, it doesn't seem to come into this debate. The

experience of sexism is different for the sexes. I think it is

important to make the point that we are talking about what John Lumley

said so we're talking about how women in the UK address on a night

out. Women can be it assaulted on the way to school, it can happen at

any time why are women in this country going out in that way? I

don't find it attractive. They write nicer ways to be sexy and

attractive than displaying everything. They are going out and

Clover Stroud should be reserved for the bedroom. Everyone's tastes

are different. People should be able to wear what they want to wear.

We don't live in an ideal world. The fundamental principle is that

every single person should be free to go out without fear of being

raped or rest. -- harassed. Whether they are a man or woman. Everyone

also needs to take responsibility for their safety, a man or woman,

and for men heed Mr accept the fact they you are more honourable you

should look after yourself a bit better if you are a woman forced to

pick you are very drunk, you cannot look after yourself. Do we agree

that women need to take responsibility and look after

themselves? I think comments from Joanna Lumley and Shazia Awan

tonight are really unhelpful. It is a blaming of the victims, don't get

raped, don't do this, don't do that. Oh my God! Way with you tell

someone if you dress provocatively, if you go out like that, you will

get raped. It is 17th century rubbish. The police have shown time

and again, it doesn't matter what the woman was wearing when they

were raped. There is no correlation to short skirts or whatever for

sexual assault and rape. Even saying that is disgusting. Very

interesting point about victim blaming. Me being a dancer, I see

it every weekend, I see classy girls, I see girls with their

breasts out, with them in, it all goes... It all goes down to the

thing, people don't know their limits. Yes, it is nice if they

Gill feels comfortable with her breasts out, crack on. If she wants

to go out in a nice dress, go for red. The people need to learn their

limits and also another factor is drugs. The nightclub I work in, I

have seen it loads of times, people off their night on drugs, picking

up random boys, you see them with a group of girls them with a boy and

you don't see them again. So it is all about limits? Learned your

Tony and Elliott, probably reflecting what most people are

Probably a good time to look at the You can implement the Power Bar as

well, get on Twitter now and tell how our panellists what you think.

If you agree with Shazia Awan, If you disagreed, it is time for

you to make your voice heard. Radio One and One Xtra are running

a campaign about internet safety called Share Take Care -

highlighting the dangers of oversharing online. And Claire

Perry, an advisor on children to David Cameron, has called for

parents to monitor their children's social media activity. My question

to the panel is, do you think young people are aware of the dangers

online? Let's goatee you first, I had two children, I have one who

is 17 and a little boy who is 10. The 10-year-old can run rings

around me on the internet. Absolutely run rings around me. But

as a parent, we do recognise that there are stripped out there, I

have spoken to my children about it and there are parental blocks on

I have said it in many speeches in the House of Commons, try to sort

out the downloading of music issue, I'm probably the only person in

here who still buys a CD. The threat is there, the cyber threat

is always there. It is how we are going to manage this better in the

future. But the legislation in place, there will always be

loopholes. Tom, you fronted the Radio One campaign, you are an

expert on online safety, what is your take? I think people don't

understand how public everything is now. They don't understand you can

find out practically everything about anybody. I think the more

that people realise that we live in a completely transparent world, the

more they will temper their own behaviour. I don't think people

understand. You were given a day to research a family and you found out

an absolute load, it was extraordinary. You have a sister

who is a couple of years older. Mother's maiden name is always

important, it gets used as a password. Could this be your

mother's maiden name? Your date of birth is...? Your current partner

is quite good looking! That is only available to about 1 billion people

worldwide. What do we think? Do we need regulation? Are we aware of

the dangers? I find it worrying that the government were to

legislate the internet and what we can do, we have seen in the last

few years, with the Arabs bring, the power of transparency,

anonymity, it has been phenomenal - - the Arab spring. And our

government is trying to bring in more control. We are not trying to

put legislation in place to monitor or police the internet, that has

got to be first on the table. What I have been involved in his a

commercial transaction, a musician great a piece of work, he sells it

in, it is downloaded it legally, it is theft. It is a commercial

transaction, that is what we are trying to do. Personally, I don't

get what the younger generation want to tell their shoe size, what

they had for dinner, who they are seeing, their whole life is out

there, the gentleman over their said, you can find it so much about

somebody like that. Is it a problem, do you think, that so much

information is put out there? think that information gets out

there, there needs to be more education I do from home or from

schools to let people get more savvy about using the internet. It

is about teaching people about how to make certain elements of their

lives private. I don't think that regulating things in the way that

you might be proposing is the best thing to do, because the internet

is beyond regulation. I think this whole idea of trying to regulate

the internet wouldn't work, it is more about individuals. And about

having faith in young people, we can be educated to learn how to use

things properly and we can just do They're saying it is not the root

of of the government to regulate. - So it is a question of trust. Last

week, David Cameron 'came out' in support of equal marriage, but less

than half of Conservative MPs followed his lead. 22 Labour MPs

and four Lib Dems also voted against. Elizabeth has a question

about this. Why are people continuing to cling to the outdated

notion that one man, one woman is the only real form of marriage?

have a direct this to David. thought you would! I actually voted

against the legislation last week. The reason I voted against it was

because, in my mailbag, constituents sent me over 1000 e-

mails and letters and I had in the region if 50 that wanted me to vote

for it. As an MP, my job is to listen to my constituents. But I'm

also a legislator. And the whole legislation put before the House of

Commons last week was a dog's breakfast, it was open to all kinds

of legal challenges from Europe and other places. I think if you are

going to do this form of registration, you should do it

properly. And to be frank, I think will get savaged in the Lords once

the bishops get hold of it. And I think it is the wrong time to do

this, not in the status of equality but purely because of the timetable

of pushing this through. It should have had more time to be worked on

in the committee stage. Just fill up an MP's mail back with male and

then you will get change whatever law you want! I cannot believe

politics by mail bag, that is astounding. That is the ballot box!

That is our democratic system. if people wanted to bring back

hanging... Let's be realistic. is not playing to the audience. It

is a matter of equality and the hand of the quality should extend

to all not just the people... Instantly, all Welsh Tory MPs voted

against equal marriage, and I think that is fundamentally wrong.

all the Plaid Cymru MPs voted for it! When I get married, as a

straight woman, I do not think that the love why would feel for my

partner is any better or any more pure than a love that a gay man

would feel for his partner, or a lesbian. I think what you're saying

is fundamentally wrong. David Cameron is a great leader of the

Conservative Party, this will probably make me even more

unpopular, but he is a modern, progressive leader, and he is

stumbling because his own MPs are not supporting him. Equal marriage

should have gone through easily, because we have bigger issues to

deal with, like the economy, we shouldn't have spent so much time

on this. There were four votes that night, one I voted against, or

three are voted for. This registration will go through, that

is evident, but my job as the legislation, I thought it was

Has this exposed a fault line in the Conservative Party? It has

shown them as being out of touch and not representing... It is the

Conservative leader that is bringing it forward! But the

majority of your party voted against it. It is your role as a

spokesperson to be representing equality and development and change.

Her what happens when it goes to the House of Lords and gets thrown

out? You are supposed to be representing... I am a legislator,

that is my job. You are perpetuating an idea... Let's speak

to... What happens when the House of Lords throw it out, you said?

The unelected Lords should not be in any position to throw anything

in it or out. APPLAUSE That is a different matter,

obviously. Do you feel this has become a big negative issues for

the Conservative Party? It has certainly divided the party.

Personally, I am all for it or stop I can't see an issue with it. In

the same way I could marry a woman, I do not see it, there are too many

dinosaurs in the Conservative Party that are holding the future of the

party back. A good message that has come in online from Mark. He is

making a point to people who say it equal marriage should be allowed

because of the idea of the family unit. So he says, should infertile

heterosexual couples be stopped from getting married? OK, more from

the audience. It is a bit harsh to criticise David quite so much on

voting against. The fact is, he was voted in by his constituents. We

need to get her over the idea that every MP represents the entire

country. MPs represent their constituency. David Padmore noes

Ben yeses and he voted against it - - David had more noes. If that is

what his constituents want, that is what they get. That was a

backhanded confident! Men and women married, they have kids, that is

how the world develops. If it is men and men, the world will not

develop. Not everyone will do that there. But I do not think it is

right. It is not how nature works. So you are against it, anybody

else? Yes. I am against equal marriage because although I hate to

judge people just by who they are, and I would not judge their

behaviour, I would judge the morality of their behaviour. You

are destroying the very meaning of marriage. You are destroying the

harmony between them. There is no reason for equal marriage... No

valid reason for it so they disagree with it. She thinks it is

interfering with morality, anybody else? I just want to make the point,

David, I do not mean to attack you, but as someone who this decision

does not affect what so were for, why should you have the right to

deny somebody else a freedom that does not impact you? It should not

be your decision. If someone wants to be gay and get married to

another man, another women, it does not affect you in the slightest.

APPLAUSE. This lady will respond directly.

The because his constituents ask you to. Leanne looked on in

discussed at the notion of an MP listening to their constituents.

How will people have their say apart from having a vote once every

four years? If you are talking about morality, you should not be

able to restrict somebody's freedom when it has no impact upon you.

job is to represent his constituents. The in my opinion he

made the wrong decision. I think you could argue for some time!

think it is such an out of date argument. Homosexuality was

legalised in the 1960s. This is still carrying on. I think it is

about time we got state and religion, but Bemersyde, and did

what is right for people in this liberal democracy, because if it

really is liberal, then people should be free and equal.

Personally, I do not understand what the problem is. For the people

who are not happy about same-sex couples getting married, the

government has included in this Bill that the Church of England and

the Church of Wales have the religious right to prevent the

marriage if they want to, so all we are allowing his choice. Every

person to choose what they want to do. And if two people feel they

love each other and one to commit, and I thought marriage was about

committing to one other person for the rest of your life, I didn't

realise it had anything to do with your sexuality and that that could

affect your morality. This lady feels it is gender-neutral. What do

you say to that? I missed the question. She thinks it is Deng --

should be gender-neutral. Let's put it this way. When I have got a huge

mailbag from my constituents wanted me to vote against this legislation

and I look into, it was a good point you made about the reporting,

this legislation will be contested through the European Court of Human

Rights and those people who do not want to see gay marriage going

ahead will be equally as upset as those who do. If you are going to

put legislation forward in the oldest parliament in the world,

make sure you do it properly because what will happen is it will

come back and bite your heart and my gut feeling is that this

legislation will probably time out before me but the House of Lords

will savage this. As a person, not a politician, I am as liberal as

everybody else. But as a politician and a legislator, it is a flawed

piece of legislation and it should never have got this far. If it was

going to go before the House of Commons it should have been looked

at with more scrutiny. Let's go back to the lady who asked the

question. I just wanted to say, because there were so many people

for it in government, that the House of Lords would have a lot of

pressure on them to vote it in, as far as I am aware. I agree that

there have we it has been done is not necessarily the best but

because of the amount of pressure from government, I thought the

House of Lords would say yes. is a religious element to the House

of Lords and that must be taken into consideration. Religions teach

tolerance, David. Religions are about tolerance. Also remember that

well-organised campaigns can fill MPs' mailbags. That is one thing we

have learnt tonight for sure. have celebrities now that are on TV,

they get married 24 hours later they have a divorce. Surely more

should be done for people to realise what the vows of marriage

are ban preventing two people who love each other from getting

married -- than preventing two people. I do not understand. This

is a different issue about how important marriages and whether or

not we are educating people in that. For me, the most important thing is

two people being able to make a commitment to each other. The

wedding rings, at the wedding, at the paper, it is not that important

to me personally but to many people marriage is important, and people

do want to give a public display of their commitment to another person,

and whether that is between two women, two men, a man and a woman,

I think there should be equality as a basis for everyone. Quickly. Yes

of stock there are so many things wrong with the arguments against

equal marriage. You say your mailbag is all. This is equality!

We are the minority, you will not have a full mailbags. Arguments

that it is ruining the sanctity of marriage. Just because I cannot

marry a guy, it does not mean I will be gay any more. I will always

love a man, even if I cannot marry him. Quickly from this gentleman.

David said about the people who disagree with their marriage being

upset. The people who disagreed with desegregation upset when that

went through. Why are we getting bigger its affect the democratic

process? -- why are we allowing a begets the to affect the democratic

process? I just wanted to say that all of these questions seem to be

coming about central government, the big religion debate. I am a

Conservative and damn proud to be part of that party and I agree and

believe we have equal marriage -- I am proud. I think as a country we

should behind it, despite the mailbag. Lots of people talking

about religion. James asks why religion still has any part in

politics? This man thinks Britain should follow the principles of

Christ. Marriage is religious, according to him. Emerson has been

against gay marriage is as bad as racism. -- MLA it says are bidding

against gay marriage is as bad as After this conversation, one thing

I would really like to take away, especially with the nature of

speaking about women and feminism, is a want to move away from this

normalisation of things like a slut shaming and calling women hussies

and names like this. If we can take anything away from this debate and

the way in which we see each other, is that we have to have neutral

respect and women should not feel ashamed and dictated to about how

to dress appropriately, and I would like all the men and women in that

room to take that away with them today.

APPLAUSE That is almost it. Hanks to our audience, our panel, and to

you at home for sending in your comments. The debate continues

online. Join us next time live from Liverpool on March 6th at 8pm.

We'll leave you with some final thoughts from young people here in

Swansea on our key topic tonight: long-term unemployment. If I was in

charge, I would offer more job- training so people with no

experience would have more of the chance. I would offer more

apprenticeships for the youth of today. If I was in charge, I would

create more volunteering opportunities. If I was in charge,

there would be more equal opportunities so it does not matter

who you know but how good you would be at the job. School should

provide more practical qualifications, not just academia.

I would freeze the retirement age to make more jobs for young people

are. Own would create new training centres for young people. I would