It's a Mad World Free Speech


It's a Mad World

Is modern life driving us mad? The panel debates whether social media is harming the mental health of young people and whether the NHS could be doing more to help.


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we want to hear from you. Welcome to the only show where you can have

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your say about what you care about, right now, on BBC Three. People are

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under a lot of pressure. What do we think about that? Try and grab as

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many opportunities as possible. It is an uphill struggle. A lot of

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fans. Employers don't care about qualifications. It is people skills.

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Speech on the Fringe. We are live from the Corn Exchange at the

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Edinburgh Festival. They are all here to tell us what they think we

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We want to hear what you think, too. Talk to Tina Daheley. Good evening.

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Get online with Facebook, Twitter and the BBC. Here are the addresses

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you need. I will be launching each of our questions on social media at

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the same time as they are live here in Edinburgh. Your answers and

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comments will come straight to the heart of our debate as it happens.

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One easy way to get your voice heard is via the Power Bar. It responds in

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real time to what you think of the panel's point of view and it

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operates via Twitter. So, use #Yes or #No followed by the first name of

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a panelist each time you agree or disagree with them. Here is our

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panel, whose first job is to tell us who they are and why they are here.

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We will start with you Ruth. I'm the leader of the Scottish Conservative

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Party. I'm here because I think young people have a huge part to

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play in the debate in our country and politicians need to work harder

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to make sure they get involved. Jane? I'm a writer and a journalist.

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I want to see loads of shows! enough. Ranj? I am an NHS and TV

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doctor. I eenl here because I care about the issues that affect young

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people. Aileen? I'm Minister for Children and Young People and I want

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to listen to what young people have to say as well. Your views are

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really important. Also because the Scottish Government's aim is to make

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Scotland the best place in the world Generation stressed. That is the

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term that's been coined for today's 20-somethings, with a third having

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therapy and a quarter taking antidepressants. One in four of us

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has a mental illness at some point in our lives. BBC Three has

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responded with a season of programmes on mental health. Inside

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My Mind is on after us and features David who has OCD. During the night,

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our remote camera captures David's compulsive behaviour. Some nights I

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don't get to sleep at all. A combination of everything that

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happens during the day, like with the speedcameras and different

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things, on the road, but, mostly, worries about my Dad. The fear that

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his Dad will die is another of his persistent and irrational thoughts.

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When he was a boy, his father suffered from heart disease and this

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has haunted him ever since. David is convinced that carrying out

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compulsive rituals will help keep his Dad safe. Kirstie has a question

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for the panel. What do you want to ask? Is modern life driving us mad.

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Ranj, this is a big topic. We want to keep the debate moving. You have

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30 seconds to get us started. Starting now. I think that there is

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a misconception that we have lots of luxuries in the world today and in

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society and, yes, we do. It has never been harder to be a young

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person. We are faced with so many pressures from society, from family,

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from school, from our peers, from online, from the media, that it is

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incredibly difficult to cope sometimes and some people manifest

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it by having problems with things like their mental health. Mental

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health issues are growing. We need to wake up to that fact and deal

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with it. Thank you. Jane, what is your take on this? Is modern life

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driving us mad? If you had a baby, if a baby is not happy, you assume

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it is tired. Everyone carries their office in their back pocket. If you

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are checking your e-mails 24 hours ago, you are driving yourself nuts.

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In Los Angeles, you are talking to someone, "You don't mind, do you?"

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It is quite nuts. Yes. I want to take a few thoughts from the

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audience. Do we feel like - this gentleman here. It is quite

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staggering to associate all mental health with people being tired in

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some way that suggests that if everyone got a good night's sleep,

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we wouldn't have a mental health problem. Is it not more complex than

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that? We would be much better off investigating the real reasons why

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people have mental illness rather than suggesting everyone is mental?

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Is that a question for me? Felt like it. There is a lot of people making

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a nice living about pretending it is incredibly complex. Being depressed

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a natural reaction to your life. It is not a giant disease. I have been

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depressed. At the end of the day, if you wanted to do something useful,

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again so you can live in a halfway decent flat, not pump yourself up

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with pills. Pills are relatively early on in the medical process. We

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don't really know the full long-term effects. What are people saying

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online? Lots of messages coming in. "I do sympathise that some people

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have genuine psychological issues and should receive treatment, but

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most people who use this issue are either attention-seekers or mentally

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weak. People need to toughen up: " Do we need to tough en up? Loads of

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hands up. This gentleman here? of the reasons why people seem to be

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getting depressing is because of the money cuts. Most of that money seems

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to be on trams which don't seem to be going anywhere. Interesting. Too

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many trams(!) Aileen? Yes, I think a lot of people have commented about

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modern life. One of the positive things at the moment is people are

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able to speak about mental illness in a much more open way. That is a

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positive thing. There is a decrease in the stigmatisation about

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suffering from a mental illness. That is a positive thing. We should

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support people as best we can. Make sure there is those open channels

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for folk if they are suffering to be open about it and to seek the

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support and help that they would need. That support doesn't

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necessarily need to be through prescriptions. You are right, there

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are many different types of mental illness that you can suffer as well.

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It is not one of these things you can have a catch all policy, that is

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what we are trying to do. We are trying to be innovative with other

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forms of technology to try and make sure folk have somewhere to go and

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talk to about the things that they are suffering from. How would you

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tackle the problems of mental illness, Ruth? There are a couple of

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things we have to say. The first thing is for people who are

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experiencing some of the symptoms of mental ill-health, you are not

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alone. Four in ten women and one in ten men will suffer some form of

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mental ill-health in their life. Sometimes, particularly young

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people, who are suffering these symptoms for the first time, that

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comes with feelings sometimes of guilt or shame as well as confusion

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and fear. Mental ill-health is about being an illness. It is not about

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being weak like that guy texting in said. He is wrong. It is like if you

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have another mental problem, you have the right, you deserve to be

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treated in the same way as anything else. Do not be scared to go to your

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GP. Do not be scared to talk about it with teachers, or with your

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family at home. There is nothing that is going to stop you achieving

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in later life. There shouldn't be a stigma attached to this. Do not feel

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alone. Lots of people are feeling the same as you are. You deserve to

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get treatment. I think the NHS works as hard as it can on this. There is

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more that we can do. It is not always about drug therapy. There are

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talking therapies out there. The first thing that you have to do is

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go and speak to a doctor, go and speak to somebody in the healthcare

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profession. You deserve to get treatment. OK. We have heard from

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all our panel now. You know what I want, Tina? It is time to find out

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what the online audience think of what you have been saying so far.

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Let's fire it up. And Ranj, you are leading at the moment. Well done.

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Aileen is second. It can change of course. Where is Laura? Laura,

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hello. You have had mental health issues. Talk to me about how you

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have dealt with it. I think I want to say there is a big difference

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between being a bit sad and have -- and being depressed. I also wanted

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to say that it is important that as well as talking about the bad side

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of things and how things are really bad, people don't get treatment,

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people do get well. People do recover. People do live with mental

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health problems and function and go to work, go to school, go to

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university. So it is important that we promote hope and recovery as well

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as well as talking about the negatives. Absolutely. Alannah and

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Lisa, what are your experiences of mental illness? I went privately for

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treatment because I needed help quickly. One of the things that

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became obvious to me through clinical treatment was that, at no

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point, did anyone say, "Everything is going to be OK." It is that

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message of hope that is so important and charities like MIND do a lot for

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that and public speakers, young public speakers. People like Stephen

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Fry, Ruby Wax are all doing a great job. But no-one young has come out

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and said, "I can live my life again." There needs to be more on

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giving friends and family support. Lisa was my twin sister. I didn't

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know what advice to give. When Lisa was going through treatment, there

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wasn't any help for friends and family. That was the biggest support

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for you. Yeah.You needed us there. That is the main thing. That message

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of hope that you can get through it and that there is light at the end

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of the tunnel. Where is Dawn? You are a psychologist. You have dealt

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with young people a lot as a counsellor. What is the key to

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tackling this? Gosh. I mean, mental health as somebody was saying

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before, it is dictated by a variety of factors. They all interact. They

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define our mental health and wellbeing. It is very difficult to

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say this is what the answer is. In my experience, I work in private

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practice now, but I am noticing a lot more younger people are coming

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to see me. A lot of them will say they haven't been to speak to their

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GP, they haven't been to see family or friends and I am the first person

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they have spoken to about it. I think it is really important that we

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provide the environment in which it is OK to talk about these things and

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not to feel afraid to talk about them. I was talking earlier about

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the fact that social media and the fact we rely so much on technology,

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on communicating electronically with computers, iPads and tablets.

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Sometimes I think we are losing the ability to communicate with each

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other. We are relying on electronic means so much that when we try to

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sit down to talk about something very serious to somebody, we can't

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do it. We are so used to typing in an e-mail or something else like

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that. That is quite a significant influence as well. So, there is a

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whole range of factors. Mental health starts in our younger years,

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childhood is when things start to develop and our experiences as

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children can have a huge impact on how we cope as an adult. It is about

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being comfortable with face to face interaction, talking about stuff and

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destigmatising? More therapists, as people are saying here, we need to

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concentrate on the fact that people do get better. There is hope. There

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are people out there who can help. It is about - in therapy, I always

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say, "The first session, we will do this together." That is a really

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important message. Absolutely. Kirstie, who asked the question

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earlier, has made a little film about her own experiences. Living

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with depression and anxiety is all consuming. You become locked within

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yourself. It is very much like a fall. Everything came to a head. I

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was only 11. I decided I was going to kill myself. People who have

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mental health problems often are seen as a phase, they are told to

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snap out of it. I feel like I am beating the thing that beat me for

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ten or 11 years. This is my organisation board where I write

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things I have got on. I need to keep a routine. If I'm not organised, it

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becomes much easier for my moods to become more erratic. Recovery

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doesn't mean you are cured. I am coping better. I work for the eked

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en burring Self Harm Project. I have to be on top of my game. I'm a role

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model. I do think social media does impact on people's mental health. It

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is very easy when you are not feeling good to text someone. You

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can avoid people. You don't have to see people. If I'm already feeling

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quite crap, I will not use social networking sides for any support.

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There is this constant influx of how amazing everyone's life is. We are

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portraying our lives as something that they are not. I will have to

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close everything off and I won't bother. I need face to face contact.

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Shall we go up in the town? You can do everything from behind the

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screen. We are human beings. The thing we communicate with most is

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eye contact. It would be sad if we forgot how to talk to each other.

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Kirstie is echoing what Dawn was saying. How big an impact do you

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think that social media is having on our mental health? Yes, this lady?

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think that social network does impact on a lot of people. It is a

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barrier, like it is always about. There should be more body language

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and eye contact and people should speak to each other. I feel too many

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people hide behind the screen and just say everything is OK when they

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are not. They should speak more. Yes, hand here? I also feel like

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things like Facebook and Twitter, you are never going to put out there

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that you are not feeling good. You are going to really show how great

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your life is and photos of you looking good and happy so everyone

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never see anyone unhappy. Some people use it to put themselves out

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there. My sister has battled with mental imbalances for many years.

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She post statuses quite regularly and a lot of people get annoyed and

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go, "She is so attention seeking." When I see her, I know to go round

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to her flat, I know to contact her and that is helpful for me. That is

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a useful tool for you. On that point, lots of people at home are

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talking about this being permanently switched on. "We are expected to be

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on call 24/7. If we are go, go, go, we will run ourselves into the

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ground. Request t "A similar point from Simon. "The everything must be

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done in five minutes society, too much pressure." So coming back to

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what Jane said originally. Can I come back in? Although there's not

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been much work done on this, a girl in the audience has a Stonewall

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T-shirt on. There was a report that was looking at cyberbullying and how

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that affected people's mental health. They found that more than

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half of young gay bisexual people in schools said that they had bullying,

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a huge part of that being cyberbullying. One in four were

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trying to commit suicide. I think people who are using Facebook, and

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Twitter, they have to be aware of what they are doing with other

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people and be aware of others, too. It is not about just showing how

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good your own life is. We have seen how it can be used as a tool to

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target people. We have to be aware of that. It does affect people.

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There is that link there. We have seen that link. As people who all

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use the internet, we have to be responsible on the internet as well

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as in real life, too. We will be talking a lot more about that later

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on in the show. Have you got some more messages? I do. Daniel says,

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"Mental illness comes from an unequal society where you are never

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going to do as your middle-class counter-parts." Jenny says, "I don't

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think modern life is the cause. It is people who cause bullying. The

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tech nol noling only helps them being anonymous." Si, "Tough enough

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and snap out of it are two of the most degrading terms for people with

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mental health issues." In you want your point of view read out, you

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have to make it first. Head to facebook.com/BBCFreeSpeech. For

:18:43.:18:48.

Twitter it is @BBCFreeSpeech. Or you can go to bbc.co.uk/FreeSpeech.

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Next, let's move the debate on mental health on. 2,000 psychiatric

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beds have been cut in England in the last two years and more than half of

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English councils say they cut their budgets for children and young

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people's mental health services last year. Jonny Benjamin investigated in

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a documentary for BBC Three. One of the worst failures happened

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when I was a student in Manchester. It was before I was diagnosed and I

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was going through a serious mental breakdown. I felt like I was being

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possessed by the devil. I was in the grips of psychosis and desperate to

:19:25.:19:35.
:19:35.:19:36.

take my life. So I ran out the house. I was walking the streets,

:19:36.:19:46.
:19:46.:19:47.

completely out of control. I remember running alongside this busy

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road screaming and shouting at all the cars going past. Eventually, I

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collapsed and I remember my housemates found me and they took me

:19:58.:20:04.

to the local A&E down the road. I wanted to end it all. I told the

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psychiatrist this, but he said there wasn't much he could do. He didn't

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have any beds available. He gave me some Valium and sent me on my way.

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We have a question from Michael. Where is Michael? What do you want

:20:19.:20:22.

to ask? Do you feel like the NHS provides enough support for young

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people? OK. Tina, can you get that? I am just launching the question on

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Facebook and Twitter. You can have your say online. Jonny is here. I

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would like to speak to him first. How would you respond to the

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question that Michael has just asked? Does the NHS provide enough

:20:42.:20:45.

support for young people? No, I don't think so, unfortunately. That

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is due to the fact that mental health spending keeps falling, so

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the NHS doesn't have the resources that they need to deal with the

:20:53.:20:57.

amount of young people coming in with mental health problems. This is

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all angles, from GPs, A&E departments. If you go to an A&E

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department and you have self-harmed, only 50% of these cases receive an

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assessment. The rest are sent home. It is not good enough. Too many

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young people are losing their lives. Four young people every day take

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their lives. So, not enough is being done to help them. APPLAUSE

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Where are you on this, panel? Ruth? I give you 30 seconds to tell us

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where you are. I think when you are talking about the NHS supporting

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young people and health comes across-the-board, we think it starts

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at birth, that is why we want more spent on the under twos, we want

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universal health visitor coverage in Scotland, but also if we are talking

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specifically about mental health, we are seeing money put in by the UK

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Government, that is coming up here to Scotland as well. There is �400

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million being put in over the course of the Spending Review period and we

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get that up here in Scotland, too. In terms of the clinical

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applications, we need to be a lot stronger with people at the sharp

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end. A&E specifically, to be able to flag up. It is not just about acute

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healthcare. It is about social care in the communities, too. It is

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linking that as well. I have given you 50 seconds! I don't know why.

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You need to be able to look after people in their own communities as

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well. Ranj? I think we have to be completely honest. The NHS does a

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fantastic job most of the time for most people, 24/7, seven days a

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week. It does do a good job. When it comes to certain people, it could be

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better and we need to be honest about that. The care of young

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people's mental health is the job of society as a whole. It is about care

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at home. It is about support at school. I agree, we could be better

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and we are doing better. We are investing more money. We are trying,

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although it's a very different story from the Government than it is from

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doctors on the ground. Some of us are trying to speak up to make

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things better. What are people saying about the NHS? Paul is

:23:09.:23:12.

agreeing with your point and saying what about the young people's

:23:12.:23:17.

families? Why is it some stranger's responsibility? The family has a

:23:17.:23:21.

duty of care, too. Stop making it other people's responsibility for

:23:21.:23:25.

parenting in this country. He doesn't think it's the NHS's

:23:25.:23:32.

responsibility. Paula says, "Staff of A&E are not there to discover

:23:32.:23:36.

underlying problems. They should, yes. But lack of time and resources

:23:36.:23:40.

prevents this happening." It is worth bearing in mind the NHS deals

:23:40.:23:46.

with over a million patients every 36 hours. They are swamped. Aileen?

:23:46.:23:50.

I think the NHS, everyone is proud of the fact we have the NHS in this

:23:50.:23:54.

country and it is doing a fantastic job. The people who work there are

:23:54.:23:57.

so dedicated to making sure that the health and wellbeing of people is

:23:57.:24:03.

cared for. I think going back to one of the other audience member's

:24:03.:24:07.

points about mental health having its start in childhood is an

:24:07.:24:11.

important point as well. If we can support children in their earliest

:24:11.:24:16.

years, we can lay firm foundations for them to have happy lives later

:24:16.:24:19.

on. That approach is something we need to be mindful of as well,

:24:19.:24:23.

making sure if your parents need support that they get that support

:24:23.:24:30.

when and where they needed. People, parents, they do a fantastic job,

:24:30.:24:35.

but they can need a bit of help from time to time. We did some economic

:24:35.:24:41.

modelling. For every �1 you spent in the early years, you spent �9 on

:24:41.:24:49.

cures. Those economics stack up as well. We are investing in calm

:24:49.:24:53.

services for young people. Like Ranj says, with e can always do more and

:24:53.:24:57.

do better. What we are doing is trying to make sure that young

:24:57.:25:01.

people are cared for in the NHS. People do value the support they get

:25:01.:25:06.

from the NHS. We can do more. But we need to make sure that it is more

:25:06.:25:10.

than the NHS there. We have social services, teachers - lots of people

:25:10.:25:12.

have a stake in this. We need to make sure we are supporting young

:25:12.:25:16.

people to the best of our abilities and we are doing that. We can do

:25:16.:25:20.

more, but in Scotland we are doing not too badly. Jane, do you think

:25:20.:25:26.

the NHS can cope with the amount of mental illness in the UK? I have

:25:26.:25:36.

lived in countries with private healthcare. In Los Angeles, you go -

:25:36.:25:40.

I went to a doctor with a sore throat and he sent me for a CAT

:25:40.:25:50.
:25:50.:25:51.

scan! Anything you can do to prop it up, or we will live in an

:25:51.:25:54.

American-crazed healthcare system. Who doesn't think the NHS isn't

:25:54.:26:01.

doing a good job? Who thinks it is a mess? Yes, the gentleman here?

:26:01.:26:07.

I have been to the psychologist before and they didn't even know I

:26:07.:26:13.

was self-harming and trying to end my life. He ended up not diagnosing

:26:13.:26:19.

it. So, I was wanting Ranj's point on whether he should have diagnosed

:26:19.:26:26.

it or not. Ranj? They should have. The thing is, I think we have to be

:26:26.:26:29.

- we have to face up to the fact that young people aren't taken

:26:29.:26:32.

seriously enough when it comes to their mental health as well as their

:26:32.:26:35.

other health. People don't think young people get sick. They think

:26:35.:26:41.

they are invincible. Therefore, they almost belittle their problems, and

:26:41.:26:45.

that app political parties to mental health as well as their other issue.

:26:45.:26:48.

If we started listening to young people and giving them a voice that

:26:48.:26:52.

they should have, we wouldn't have a lot of these problems. Let's wake up

:26:52.:26:56.

to the fact that there is a real problem when it comes to caring for

:26:56.:27:04.

this group of people and we need to do better. OK. The gentleman here?

:27:04.:27:09.

lot of people in defence of the NHS have said that it's the duty of

:27:09.:27:13.

family and society to support people. But does this not raise

:27:13.:27:17.

another issue of public spending which is that education about it? A

:27:18.:27:21.

number of people who are very close to me suffer from mental health

:27:21.:27:26.

issues. And when things are bad, I don't know what to say, I don't know

:27:26.:27:30.

what to do. Often I end up doing the wrong thing. I tell them, "It

:27:30.:27:34.

doesn't matter, it is not a big deal." It is a big deal to them. It

:27:34.:27:40.

is very important to them. So that ends up exacerbating the situation.

:27:40.:27:44.

We can't shirk our responsibility. The NHS is there to help people. It

:27:44.:27:48.

is a health system designed to help people that need help. We can't

:27:48.:27:51.

forget that. It is part of the puzzle. It is not the only thing

:27:51.:27:57.

that is there. I think we need to pay attention to some other areas,

:27:58.:28:05.

too. Where is David Green? I think you need to look where it was in

:28:05.:28:11.

2010. It was a bureaucratic mess under the last Labour Government. So

:28:11.:28:18.

if you look at the NHS reforms, there are some key Liberal Democrat

:28:18.:28:25.

successes in that. Things like ensuring that the NHS budget is

:28:25.:28:32.

protected, investing �400 million into mental healthcare, and more

:28:32.:28:35.

transparency in the NHS through Local Health Boards. These are

:28:35.:28:38.

really important. That is a strong record of action that is looking to

:28:38.:28:43.

try and build a fairer society, but we need to recognise there is a lot

:28:43.:28:51.

more that we need to do, but we are certainly getting there. OK. Yes, at

:28:51.:28:58.

the back? I don't think everyone should blame the NHS. They are doing

:28:58.:29:03.

wrong, but they are not perfect either. Before it gets to the stage

:29:03.:29:08.

of being in A&E, why are they not getting educated in school about

:29:08.:29:12.

mental health? They should educate and once people have the knowledge,

:29:12.:29:17.

they can help doctors and friends, they can come together and make a

:29:17.:29:21.

positive impact about stop being all negative and saying, "Nobody is

:29:21.:29:30.

going to do anything." At the end of the day, we are human beings, we

:29:30.:29:34.

need to come together to make it a more positive thing. A good point.

:29:35.:29:40.

APPLAUSE What are people saying online? Loads of reaction coming in.

:29:40.:29:43.

"Treatment alone isn't the solution as the underlying causes are never

:29:43.:29:48.

solved. The NHS won't be able to cope." James says, "It is hard to

:29:48.:29:51.

talk honestly to doctors who are older than you. They don't

:29:51.:29:57.

understand." David says q t as a 25-year-old manager of an NHS site

:29:57.:30:00.

in the North East, I believe there is resources out there for young

:30:00.:30:05.

people, but it must be asked for and proactively sought. Friends and

:30:05.:30:10.

family must reach out to assist in the care of patients." Let's see if

:30:10.:30:14.

anything has changed on the Power Bar. Ranj, you are still in the

:30:14.:30:19.

lead. You can influence the Power Bar, too. Get on Twitter and tell

:30:19.:30:26.

our panelists what you think of them. Use #Yes no or #Yes followed

:30:26.:30:30.

by their furs t name. Next up Bongo-bongo Land, a term used by

:30:30.:30:35.

Godfrey Bloom in a speech about overseas aid. Let's put aside the

:30:35.:30:39.

provocative phraseology. He claims much of the UK's �11 billion

:30:39.:30:43.

overseas aid budget is unaccounted for and is spent on Ferraris and

:30:43.:30:48.

sunglasses. The Department of International Development points out

:30:48.:30:56.

their most recent expenditure was �10 million helping to eradicate a

:30:57.:31:02.

polio outbreak in East Africa. Fay, what do you want to ask? Should

:31:02.:31:08.

charity not start at home? OK. Jane, you have 30 seconds. Should charity

:31:08.:31:11.

be starting at home given there are families struggling here? Can I have

:31:11.:31:21.
:31:21.:31:21.

four weeks? You can have 35 seconds! Superb(!) I live in East Africa. I

:31:21.:31:25.

used to really want to work for a charity until I went to live there.

:31:25.:31:30.

You would not believe what goes on. It is so easy to help

:31:30.:31:33.

underprivileged people, invest in their businesses and let them get

:31:33.:31:39.

jobs instead of charity. The charity industry is - I'm not talking about

:31:39.:31:49.
:31:49.:31:49.

the mow bile library van - -- mobile library van - when I drive down past

:31:49.:31:54.

posh restaurants, the car parks are packed with Rez numberplates. These

:31:54.:32:00.

are people whose job is to clear up the poverty, but they are having an

:32:00.:32:06.

endless lunch meeting. You are walking up for some film about

:32:06.:32:10.

poverty on a flight. UNICEF are nowhere near you on the plane. They

:32:10.:32:16.

are up the front drinking free champagne. In two UN Headquarters

:32:16.:32:20.

alone, �54 million went on flying business class by choice. Imagine

:32:20.:32:24.

this, you want to improve your life. You put on a clean shirt and you ask

:32:24.:32:29.

a bloke to give you a job. Imagine if some random white guy had told

:32:29.:32:34.

that employer that you were a mess, that you had a chronic disease, you

:32:34.:32:39.

couldn't feed your kids, the charity industry has spent 30 years running

:32:39.:32:47.

down Africa and it wonders how Africa has a middle-class. I have

:32:47.:32:52.

given you four weeks! I have to stop you. Aileen? I think the comments we

:32:53.:32:57.

heard today were pretty out of - they weren't very nice at all. He

:32:57.:33:01.

should reflect on what he said and think again about how he promotes

:33:01.:33:05.

his views. Sure.I think though if we want to be a responsible member

:33:05.:33:10.

of the world and we have a duty to make sure we provide help and

:33:10.:33:15.

support to countries that are a bit less fortunate than our own. Why do

:33:15.:33:20.

you supply it to bent governments? We have an international aid budget

:33:20.:33:23.

within the Scottish Government. That is about working with countries we

:33:23.:33:33.
:33:33.:33:37.

have a link with. Yes, but...It is to make sure the benefit people in

:33:37.:33:47.
:33:47.:33:48.

Scotland give are felt in countries we help. They have still not met

:33:48.:33:51.

their international obligations successfully. Successive governments

:33:51.:33:55.

have refused to meet their targets to our neighbours around the world.

:33:55.:33:59.

That is not a positive move at all. What we need to do is make sure we

:33:59.:34:02.

have a positive impact on our neighbours around the world. It is

:34:02.:34:10.

our duty as a good, global citizen, to be promoting help around the

:34:10.:34:15.

world. I think what we need to do is make sure we don't just compare

:34:15.:34:19.

apples with pears. We need to make sure there is fairness in this

:34:19.:34:22.

society as well. That means not having the drastic welfare cuts that

:34:22.:34:28.

we are seeing. It also means being responsible in the world as well and

:34:28.:34:31.

making sure that countries are supported. It is right that we do

:34:31.:34:35.

that. We need to be strategic in our approach. Make sure the help is

:34:35.:34:37.

getting to those that need it. The Government in Scotland has been

:34:37.:34:41.

trying to do that through engaging with projects. I think we can always

:34:41.:34:47.

do more. Ruth? I think the woman is right. Things are tough in this

:34:47.:34:53.

country. Godfrey Bloom's comments were disgusting. He is ignorant. I

:34:53.:34:58.

think they were borderline racist. I'm proud of the UK... He's denied

:34:58.:35:03.

being racist. He said he is old. There you go. I'm proud of the UK,

:35:04.:35:09.

that it is meeting its Millennium Goals for 0.7%. I know we racked up,

:35:09.:35:13.

the last Labour Government racked up huge deficit, massive debts. The

:35:13.:35:16.

reason tough choices are being made now is so we don't pass that on to

:35:16.:35:23.

our children, it is not fair. It is not fair to blame or to punish the

:35:23.:35:26.

very poorest people in other parts of the world for the mistakes that

:35:26.:35:29.

were made by the last Labour Government and others and the

:35:29.:35:32.

bankers. I'm proud that we are helping the poorest people in the

:35:32.:35:36.

world. If Godfrey Bloom wants to talk about what the UK's aid budget

:35:36.:35:40.

is doing, let's talk about some of the crises that are going on right

:35:40.:35:44.

now. The Government is also tackling in affecting the poorest people in

:35:44.:35:53.

society. You have had your shot. Let me finish this. APPLAUSEWorld Bank

:35:53.:36:00.

says the average income here, GDP is 38 thoul thousand dollars, in Mali

:36:00.:36:05.

it is 694. We have had to put �20 million in the last six months. That

:36:05.:36:13.

is not being spent on Raybands, or fighter jets, it is not being spent

:36:13.:36:18.

on flats in Paris, it is being spent on medical care for women who are

:36:18.:36:28.

being raped, it is being spent on crisis care and feeding, they have a

:36:28.:36:33.

massive programme of feeding there, it is being used by the UN to feed

:36:33.:36:36.

the two million people who need food aid. I am proud the UK is

:36:36.:36:39.

contributing to that. We should continue to contribute to that.

:36:39.:36:44.

Remember, we are live and you can talk to us now on Facebook. We are

:36:44.:36:51.

on Twitter, and BBC Online. Let's hear your opinion. This lady here?

:36:51.:36:56.

Shouldn't we be tackling the home lessness, the people who can't eat

:36:56.:37:00.

in the UK first before, like, they are still being people raped in the

:37:00.:37:03.

UK, there's still people that can't get injections, there are still

:37:03.:37:07.

people that can't get a roof over their head, even through homeless

:37:08.:37:13.

accommodation. People that have to go to churches and soup kitchens to

:37:13.:37:16.

be able to put food into their mouths. Shouldn't we be

:37:16.:37:20.

concentrating on that first? I think we can do both. The Government is

:37:20.:37:26.

trying to do both. Where is the development in our own country?

:37:26.:37:29.

introduced legislation that was passed with cross-party support to

:37:29.:37:35.

tackle that issue. It is not a case of you can't try and help people at

:37:35.:37:40.

home if you are helping people abroad. You can do both. I don't

:37:40.:37:44.

think when you have got people living on less than $2 a day it is

:37:44.:37:48.

morally responsible for us, as one of the richer nations in the world,

:37:48.:37:52.

to turn our backs on them because we are having problems at home. You can

:37:52.:37:58.

do both. I'm saying, like, for instance, as soon as I got into

:37:58.:38:01.

Edinburgh today I seen a man sleeping on the street begging for

:38:01.:38:05.

money, like shouldn't we be trying to get these guys off the street as

:38:05.:38:10.

well as helping foreign countries? We should. Why are there still

:38:10.:38:13.

people sleeping on the streets? can't talk about that individual

:38:13.:38:19.

man's circumstances. Aileen, you have probably the figures on this.

:38:19.:38:27.

We have tried to do some stuff on that. LAUGHTER We have passed

:38:27.:38:30.

landmark legislation to eradicate homelessness as well and the figures

:38:30.:38:35.

are going down. But also, though, a lot of the things we do in Scotland

:38:35.:38:38.

are undermined by the bedroom tax and things like that. These are the

:38:38.:38:41.

things we have no control over. While it is OK to say we should try

:38:41.:38:44.

and tackle poverty in Scotland and around the world, that is great and

:38:44.:38:48.

as a Government, we are doing what we can with the powers that we have

:38:48.:38:54.

to try and tackle poverty. While it is being undermined by the harsh and

:38:54.:38:57.

regressive welfare reforms that are coming from the UK Government. The

:38:57.:39:02.

bedroom tax is one example. APPLAUSE One more point from a gentleman over

:39:02.:39:12.
:39:12.:39:14.

here. Just - how about taking a different view of international aid?

:39:14.:39:18.

How about considering that handing, whether it is money or resources,

:39:18.:39:22.

over to the impoverished parts of the world doesn't do it. Open up our

:39:22.:39:26.

trade barriers. Let us trade with these parts of the world and let

:39:26.:39:33.

them benefit from capitalism. Let them enjoy the benefits of trade and

:39:34.:39:36.

that private investment rather than handing over resources. Interesting

:39:36.:39:40.

point. What are people saying at home? This is the reaction coming

:39:40.:39:45.

in. Joseph says, "Why should we be going further into debt to give aid

:39:45.:39:49.

to foreign countries, especially to countries where human rights aren't

:39:49.:39:59.
:39:59.:40:00.

respected?" Jason says, "The struggles we face are nothing

:40:00.:40:07.

compared to around the world." Alex says, "Depends what you think, we

:40:07.:40:14.

live in a small world." Angela says, "Due to globalisation, the world is

:40:14.:40:19.

home." Let's look at the Power Bar. Ranj, you are still in the lead.

:40:19.:40:24.

Very good. Next up, the birth of Prince George of Cambridge which

:40:24.:40:28.

created a lovely warm glow for most people. It's certainly attracted the

:40:29.:40:34.

attention of the world's press. Here in Scotland, the reaction from some

:40:34.:40:38.

quarters was different. The chairman of the Scottish Independence Group

:40:38.:40:43.

described the prospect of the Prince being King of Scotland as an affront

:40:43.:40:47.

to democracy. The Fringe is under way, so we asked a bunch of

:40:47.:40:57.
:40:57.:41:15.

than the last King of Scotland, who was Idi Amin. He was a brutal man.

:41:15.:41:19.

They get so upset if you take anything away from a baby. The first

:41:19.:41:23.

thing that happens to baby George is he loses one of his countries, that

:41:24.:41:28.

will really upset him! In terms of independence, if Scotland is a lady

:41:28.:41:32.

who has had a terrible boyfriend, England, for a long time. He never

:41:32.:41:37.

really understood her. Scotland, you need to pull yourself together and

:41:37.:41:40.

get a push-up bra, get your roots done, have a white wine. There is

:41:40.:41:45.

nothing to be scared of. I think if you are going to go, you need to go.

:41:46.:41:52.

You can't leave and go, "We'll keep the monarchy and we will keep other

:41:52.:41:58.

English stuff, like David Beckham." You are either in or you are out,

:41:58.:42:07.

OK. Don't go, but if you do, you are not having George! Can I keep my

:42:07.:42:11.

castle? Good luck, Scotland. Don't get off with the first person that

:42:12.:42:17.

will have you. We will miss you. Strong message there. Aaron has a

:42:17.:42:25.

question. Go on? Is having a monarch necessary for Scotland? OK. Aileen,

:42:25.:42:30.

"yes" or "no"? The Scottish Government's position is... That is

:42:30.:42:40.

not "yes" or "no". Do I not get 30 seconds? I suppose so.The Scottish

:42:40.:42:43.

Government position's is that the Queen would remain head of state.

:42:43.:42:46.

Like many people in Scotland, I believe the sovereignty of people is

:42:46.:42:49.

a very important thing. It would be up to people to decide whether or

:42:49.:42:54.

not that would remain the case thereafter. I think it is up to

:42:54.:42:58.

folk, it is folk like yourselves who have a say in how the country is

:42:58.:43:02.

shaped. That is a really exciting thing. The birth of a child is

:43:02.:43:05.

always a happy event. Everyone wishes Prince George all the very

:43:05.:43:10.

best. But for the country to move forward, a "yes" vote next year will

:43:10.:43:15.

enable us to take the decisions about how that country would look

:43:15.:43:20.

like and that includes deciding who would be the future head of state.

:43:20.:43:27.

Does that echo how you feel about it, Ruth? I hope very much we stay

:43:27.:43:30.

as part of the United Kingdom. We have the best of both worlds. We can

:43:31.:43:36.

make decisions about our NHS, police, the courts, but we are also

:43:36.:43:40.

part of a a home and we walk on the world stage as a member of the

:43:40.:43:44.

Security Council at the UN, we do more together. We have a fantastic

:43:44.:43:50.

UK armed forces. I also like the Royals. I am proud of the Queen. I'm

:43:50.:43:53.

an unashamed royalist and monarchist. The Queen has done a

:43:53.:43:57.

fantastic job for 60 years. I like the younger generation. I hope

:43:57.:44:02.

George will go on and serve in the armed forces and go on to be a good

:44:03.:44:09.

figurehead and role model as we move forward. OK. Russ, you are from the

:44:09.:44:12.

Yes Scotland Campaign. Where to you stand on the issue of monarchy for

:44:12.:44:17.

Scotland? From Yes Scotland's perspective, the vote is on nothing

:44:17.:44:24.

but independence for Scotland. The Union of the Crown is completely

:44:24.:44:29.

separate. I'm a Republican, like the chair of the campaign. He stressed a

:44:29.:44:36.

lot that he said that in a personal capacity. Both Dennis and I were

:44:36.:44:42.

converts to Ince ips -- independence. The point of the

:44:42.:44:45.

independence debate and the point of the "yes" campaign is to give the

:44:45.:44:49.

people of Scotland this decision. We should be the ones to decide whether

:44:49.:44:53.

we live under a monarchy. That can only happen with independence. On

:44:53.:44:56.

day one of independence, we will still be with the Queen, we will

:44:56.:45:00.

still keep the monarchy. That is a decision for later on. You would

:45:00.:45:04.

have a second referendum? Potentially. That depends on who

:45:04.:45:09.

wins the election. That is the point of independence. That depends on who

:45:10.:45:14.

win the election in 2016. Most of the parties don't propose a

:45:14.:45:18.

referendum on the monarchy. We do. We are a party that is a Republican

:45:18.:45:22.

Party. Most parties aren't. Most people in Scotland aren't

:45:22.:45:25.

Republicans. I'm comfortable with that because the point of

:45:25.:45:29.

independence is just to give us that choice, that option. OK. APPLAUSE

:45:29.:45:36.

Yes, you want to say something? is not really, it will work in the

:45:36.:45:41.

short-term but not in the long-term for me. What happens if Scotland is

:45:41.:45:45.

independent and you run out of money at some point? What do you do then?

:45:45.:45:51.

Really, I would say more devolved powers is a better idea, stay as

:45:51.:45:58.

part of the UK but give Scotland more independent powers. Yes?

:45:58.:46:01.

think Alex Salmond's glorified campaign is all good and well, but

:46:01.:46:06.

we had a straw poll amongst our friends. 100% said they didn't know

:46:06.:46:10.

enough about it. I understand we have a year to the referendum. There

:46:10.:46:15.

is not enough grassroots work being done by unbiased voices. That is the

:46:15.:46:25.
:46:25.:46:25.

key. I moved down to London when I was 18. I am proud of my dual

:46:25.:46:29.

identity. I am still patriotic about Scotland. I don't know how many

:46:29.:46:34.

people would say they were informed enough to vote tomorrow or next week

:46:34.:46:38.

on the referendum. I think there is not enough young voices telling

:46:38.:46:41.

people what their lives are going to be like. It is our generation that

:46:41.:46:48.

it is going to change. The lady with the hand up? I heard an interesting

:46:48.:46:53.

analogy which I would like to share. A friend said, "If you lived in a

:46:53.:46:57.

house that you were comfortable in, and it was a nice enough house,

:46:57.:47:01.

would you move into a mystery house which you know nothing about?" I

:47:01.:47:04.

thought that was quite a relevant discussion. What do you think about

:47:04.:47:13.

that? Sounds quite exciting to me! Yes? I should probably point out are

:47:13.:47:17.

we comfortable in this house? The UK is the fourth most unequal country

:47:17.:47:21.

in the world. We have a UK Government who would rather spend

:47:21.:47:26.

billions on nuclear weapons and cut education and the NHS. APPLAUSE The

:47:26.:47:32.

gentleman here? I think in response to that point, it is pretty silly to

:47:32.:47:37.

think that if you go independent with all the instability and not

:47:37.:47:40.

necessarily being in the EU, to think that you will be able to

:47:40.:47:44.

commit more resources to what you want to spend it on, when quo if you

:47:44.:47:48.

are going to commit to NATO and the EU, you have a lot of commitment

:47:48.:47:53.

which might not necessarily have been taken into account. To think

:47:53.:47:59.

you can carry on with your own agenda, whilst ignoring everybody

:47:59.:48:05.

else's. That is a naive and silly point. Ranj, where do you stand on

:48:05.:48:10.

this? If Scottish people don't know enough about it, I definitely don't

:48:10.:48:15.

know enough about it. I would say the people need to speak and they

:48:15.:48:19.

need to be informed enough to be able to speak up. And really know

:48:19.:48:23.

what it means. I don't know what it would mean if Scotland didn't have a

:48:23.:48:26.

monarchy. I thought it was really nice that everyone came together to

:48:26.:48:31.

look at baby George, or whatever his name is. LAUGHTEREveryone was on

:48:31.:48:35.

telly Twittering away. It was such a nice thing. I don't know what it

:48:35.:48:40.

would be like if we didn't, if you guys didn't have that. It is fairly

:48:40.:48:44.

difficult for me to say. It is nice that we all stand holding hands,

:48:44.:48:49.

isn't it? The independence is not about building a big wall at the

:48:49.:48:52.

border. It is about empowering Scotland to take decisions that are

:48:52.:49:01.

relevant to the needs and wishes of people who live here. So it is about

:49:01.:49:05.

having not a neighbour to draw on your housing analogy, but having a

:49:05.:49:11.

good partner in the world. We would have our own voice on the global

:49:11.:49:15.

stage to be able to articulate the needs... Scotland will be closer to

:49:15.:49:19.

England by separating away from England, Wales and Northern Ireland?

:49:19.:49:25.

That is not... APPLAUSEAt the moment. I will say you two can argue

:49:25.:49:30.

about this afterwards! We haven't got long left. What are people

:49:30.:49:35.

saying online? "If they don't want to stay part of the United Kingdom,

:49:35.:49:43.

they shouldn't get the king." "The monarchy helps define us amongst

:49:43.:49:51.

other countries." "We need to have a truly democratic republic." The

:49:51.:49:54.

Power Bar, let's see if anything has changed. Ranj, you are still

:49:54.:49:59.

leading. Aileen, you have gone backup. Good stuff. It can still

:49:59.:50:03.

change. Let's move on to our final question about social media. We love

:50:03.:50:08.

it. Tina loves it. If you are tweeting our Power Bar, you love it,

:50:08.:50:13.

too. A third man was arrested this morning in relation to alleged

:50:13.:50:16.

Twitter threats to MP Stella Creasy and campaigner, Caroline

:50:16.:50:20.

Criado-Perez. Yesterday, the father of a teenager who committed suicide

:50:20.:50:23.

following bullying on ask.fm called the creator of the site to be

:50:23.:50:26.

charged with manslaughter. We aren't going to focus on these individual

:50:26.:50:32.

cases, but they do Rass an issue. Is a report abuse button enough. David

:50:32.:50:40.

has a question? What is your question. Do you think the people

:50:40.:50:44.

who - sorry - do you think the social networks should be held

:50:45.:50:48.

responsible for the cyberbullying? Let's get a line from each of the

:50:48.:50:53.

panel. Aileen? Should they be responsible? I think they could do

:50:53.:50:58.

more. The fact that it took a long time to get Twitter to react and for

:50:58.:51:01.

ask.fm to respond. They need to take their responsibilities very

:51:01.:51:05.

seriously indeed. The issues that you raised were just awful, awful

:51:05.:51:11.

things to happen. The young girl who took her own life, but the abuse

:51:11.:51:15.

that those two women got for campaigning to have a woman on a

:51:15.:51:21.

banknote. My goodness! What they did was a great thing. The things that

:51:21.:51:26.

they had on their Twitter feeds was disgusting. We should do more to

:51:26.:51:30.

protect users. Ranj? I don't think they are going to have complete

:51:30.:51:35.

responsibility. They do need to take their fair share. It is more about

:51:35.:51:38.

educating and empowering people that are users to be able to say no to be

:51:38.:51:42.

able to block, to know where to go for help, to know what to do when

:51:42.:51:46.

things go wrong. That is far more important and give them the

:51:46.:51:50.

facilities to be able to do that than just policing every tweet or

:51:50.:51:54.

Facebook profile or status update. Jane? It is cheaper for news

:51:54.:52:01.

programmes to run reams of stuff from Twitter than it is to pay

:52:01.:52:06.

journalists. Then it makes these people on Twitter look like they

:52:06.:52:15.

matter. Who was commenting on the Guardian's section - Jonathan King.

:52:15.:52:21.

It is daft. OK. Ruth? Twitter has a responsibility. It gives people a

:52:21.:52:26.

platform to say what ever they like. When they say things which are

:52:26.:52:29.

threatening rape and murder, stuff that is a crime, then it has a

:52:29.:52:34.

responsibility to take that platform away from those people. Yes, it

:52:34.:52:38.

should have a button that you press to report individual cases of abuse,

:52:38.:52:42.

a single tweet button. That is a good advance. It needs to have the

:52:42.:52:44.

people that are monitoring those reports coming in so they can pull

:52:45.:52:50.

them much quicker than they were. We need to look at identifying who

:52:50.:52:54.

these people are. When you become a Twitter user, you don't necessarily

:52:54.:52:57.

tell Twitter who you are. Maybe that is something we have to look at.

:52:58.:53:04.

Sure. Yes, this gentleman here? think just reporting and blocking

:53:04.:53:08.

somebody isn't going to change it. That will just pass it on to

:53:08.:53:12.

somebody else. Should it not go further? That is stopping that one

:53:12.:53:14.

person being affected but they will move on to somebody else. That

:53:14.:53:17.

should go further than just blocking that one person? Blocking is not

:53:17.:53:25.

enough. The gentleman here? I read a good quote online that said the

:53:25.:53:28.

internet sees censorship. I'm interested to think what the panel

:53:28.:53:32.

would think in terms of regulation, how would you stop these things from

:53:32.:53:38.

happening? How would you stop this stuff from happening, Ranj? What I

:53:38.:53:42.

think - take away people's anonymity and make them own up and be

:53:42.:53:46.

responsible for their tweets and for the stuff they put on there. The

:53:46.:53:50.

internet is full of junk. You are not going to get rid of all of it.

:53:50.:53:54.

You can make people responsible for what they write. OK. Yes, you asked

:53:54.:53:59.

the question? You say there should be a report button. There is a

:53:59.:54:03.

report button, but you get blocked for 14 days. Is that enough? There

:54:03.:54:08.

is police out there that could - there is hate crime. Should that not

:54:08.:54:12.

be part of a hate crime? It is really - there is somebody taking

:54:12.:54:19.

their own life, is that not a real risk? The Government wants Scotland

:54:19.:54:22.

to be independent, do you not think that should be a start, like, for

:54:22.:54:27.

people, like, we are going to go down in numbers... There is a lot to

:54:27.:54:32.

talk about. We have to go to Tina and wrap up. Lots of messages coming

:54:32.:54:37.

in. Ryan says, "No, because you can walk away from the screen. It is

:54:37.:54:43.

your own free will to be on the site." Joseph says, "No, I think

:54:43.:54:46.

people using the social networking site should be more responsible on

:54:46.:54:51.

the sites. You can deactivate." And Clayton says, "Your posts, your

:54:51.:54:56.

words, your responsibility." Let's take a final look at the Power Bar.

:54:56.:55:01.

Is there any change? Ranj, you are still in the lead. The final 30

:55:01.:55:05.

seconds goes to the panelist who has had most online love. Ranj, that is

:55:05.:55:10.

you. It is only ten seconds, though. Alright. One thing I will say is as

:55:10.:55:13.

a young person, don't be scared to come forward for help. There are

:55:13.:55:17.

lots of people that are out there specifically rooting for you, trying

:55:17.:55:21.

to listen to you. Make sure you have a voice and we will listen. APPLAUSE

:55:21.:55:26.

Very positive message. Thank you. That is almost it. Thanks to our

:55:26.:55:29.

audience, our panel and to you at home. The debate continues online.

:55:29.:55:34.

Join us next time live on September 4th in London. Let's return to our

:55:34.:55:40.

main theme and the Edinburgh Fringe. We will leave you with the Strung Up

:55:40.:55:50.
:55:50.:55:53.

Theatre Company and an extract from see the drawn look in your eyes.

:55:53.:56:00.

Like someone has gouged out my insides. I feel full, like I've been

:56:00.:56:04.

stuffed to burst. I see the dead weight that holds you... Sand is

:56:04.:56:12.

filling up my insides. There is a pain in me... Each tiny grain...I

:56:12.:56:19.

see the veneer crack... Up-and-up to my shoulders, more and more...

:56:19.:56:26.

something surfaced... Up...And I know it... Pouring out of my mouth,

:56:26.:56:30.

up-and-up, filling up my brain so I can't think. I see you

:56:30.:56:36.

Free Speech asks if modern life is driving us mad, as it tackles the big talking points raised by BBC Three's highly-acclaimed season on mental health. The panel debates whether social media is harming the mental health of young people and whether the NHS could be doing more to help.

Live from Edinburgh, where the Festival is in full swing, the panel includes a comedian who is in town for the Fringe as well as politicians from both sides of the independence debate discussing whether Prince George of Cambridge should ever be King of Scotland.

Presenter Rick Edwards chairs proceedings, with a live audience of 150 people aged 16-25. Tina Daheley (Radio 1 Newsbeat), gathers the Twitter, Facebook and website messages from viewers at home.


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