It's a Mad World Free Speech

we want to hear from you. Welcome to the only show where you can have

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We want to hear what you think, too. Talk to Tina Daheley. Good evening.

Get online with Facebook, Twitter and the BBC. Here are the addresses

you need. I will be launching each of our questions on social media at

the same time as they are live here in Edinburgh. Your answers and

comments will come straight to the heart of our debate as it happens.

One easy way to get your voice heard is via the Power Bar. It responds in

real time to what you think of the panel's point of view and it

operates via Twitter. So, use #Yes or #No followed by the first name of

a panelist each time you agree or disagree with them. Here is our

panel, whose first job is to tell us who they are and why they are here.

We will start with you Ruth. I'm the leader of the Scottish Conservative

Party. I'm here because I think young people have a huge part to

play in the debate in our country and politicians need to work harder

to make sure they get involved. Jane? I'm a writer and a journalist.

I want to see loads of shows! enough. Ranj? I am an NHS and TV

doctor. I eenl here because I care about the issues that affect young

people. Aileen? I'm Minister for Children and Young People and I want

to listen to what young people have to say as well. Your views are

really important. Also because the Scottish Government's aim is to make

Scotland the best place in the world Generation stressed. That is the

term that's been coined for today's 20-somethings, with a third having

therapy and a quarter taking antidepressants. One in four of us

has a mental illness at some point in our lives. BBC Three has

responded with a season of programmes on mental health. Inside

My Mind is on after us and features David who has OCD. During the night,

our remote camera captures David's compulsive behaviour. Some nights I

don't get to sleep at all. A combination of everything that

happens during the day, like with the speedcameras and different

things, on the road, but, mostly, worries about my Dad. The fear that

his Dad will die is another of his persistent and irrational thoughts.

When he was a boy, his father suffered from heart disease and this

has haunted him ever since. David is convinced that carrying out

compulsive rituals will help keep his Dad safe. Kirstie has a question

for the panel. What do you want to ask? Is modern life driving us mad.

Ranj, this is a big topic. We want to keep the debate moving. You have

30 seconds to get us started. Starting now. I think that there is

a misconception that we have lots of luxuries in the world today and in

society and, yes, we do. It has never been harder to be a young

person. We are faced with so many pressures from society, from family,

from school, from our peers, from online, from the media, that it is

incredibly difficult to cope sometimes and some people manifest

it by having problems with things like their mental health. Mental

health issues are growing. We need to wake up to that fact and deal

with it. Thank you. Jane, what is your take on this? Is modern life

driving us mad? If you had a baby, if a baby is not happy, you assume

it is tired. Everyone carries their office in their back pocket. If you

are checking your e-mails 24 hours ago, you are driving yourself nuts.

In Los Angeles, you are talking to someone, "You don't mind, do you?"

It is quite nuts. Yes. I want to take a few thoughts from the

audience. Do we feel like - this gentleman here. It is quite

staggering to associate all mental health with people being tired in

some way that suggests that if everyone got a good night's sleep,

we wouldn't have a mental health problem. Is it not more complex than

that? We would be much better off investigating the real reasons why

people have mental illness rather than suggesting everyone is mental?

Is that a question for me? Felt like it. There is a lot of people making

a nice living about pretending it is incredibly complex. Being depressed

a natural reaction to your life. It is not a giant disease. I have been

depressed. At the end of the day, if you wanted to do something useful,

again so you can live in a halfway decent flat, not pump yourself up

with pills. Pills are relatively early on in the medical process. We

don't really know the full long-term effects. What are people saying

online? Lots of messages coming in. "I do sympathise that some people

have genuine psychological issues and should receive treatment, but

most people who use this issue are either attention-seekers or mentally

weak. People need to toughen up: " Do we need to tough en up? Loads of

hands up. This gentleman here? of the reasons why people seem to be

getting depressing is because of the money cuts. Most of that money seems

to be on trams which don't seem to be going anywhere. Interesting. Too

many trams(!) Aileen? Yes, I think a lot of people have commented about

modern life. One of the positive things at the moment is people are

able to speak about mental illness in a much more open way. That is a

positive thing. There is a decrease in the stigmatisation about

suffering from a mental illness. That is a positive thing. We should

support people as best we can. Make sure there is those open channels

for folk if they are suffering to be open about it and to seek the

support and help that they would need. That support doesn't

necessarily need to be through prescriptions. You are right, there

are many different types of mental illness that you can suffer as well.

It is not one of these things you can have a catch all policy, that is

what we are trying to do. We are trying to be innovative with other

forms of technology to try and make sure folk have somewhere to go and

talk to about the things that they are suffering from. How would you

tackle the problems of mental illness, Ruth? There are a couple of

things we have to say. The first thing is for people who are

experiencing some of the symptoms of mental ill-health, you are not

alone. Four in ten women and one in ten men will suffer some form of

mental ill-health in their life. Sometimes, particularly young

people, who are suffering these symptoms for the first time, that

comes with feelings sometimes of guilt or shame as well as confusion

and fear. Mental ill-health is about being an illness. It is not about

being weak like that guy texting in said. He is wrong. It is like if you

have another mental problem, you have the right, you deserve to be

treated in the same way as anything else. Do not be scared to go to your

GP. Do not be scared to talk about it with teachers, or with your

family at home. There is nothing that is going to stop you achieving

in later life. There shouldn't be a stigma attached to this. Do not feel

alone. Lots of people are feeling the same as you are. You deserve to

get treatment. I think the NHS works as hard as it can on this. There is

more that we can do. It is not always about drug therapy. There are

talking therapies out there. The first thing that you have to do is

go and speak to a doctor, go and speak to somebody in the healthcare

profession. You deserve to get treatment. OK. We have heard from

all our panel now. You know what I want, Tina? It is time to find out

what the online audience think of what you have been saying so far.

Let's fire it up. And Ranj, you are leading at the moment. Well done.

Aileen is second. It can change of course. Where is Laura? Laura,

hello. You have had mental health issues. Talk to me about how you

have dealt with it. I think I want to say there is a big difference

between being a bit sad and have -- and being depressed. I also wanted

to say that it is important that as well as talking about the bad side

of things and how things are really bad, people don't get treatment,

people do get well. People do recover. People do live with mental

health problems and function and go to work, go to school, go to

university. So it is important that we promote hope and recovery as well

as well as talking about the negatives. Absolutely. Alannah and

Lisa, what are your experiences of mental illness? I went privately for

treatment because I needed help quickly. One of the things that

became obvious to me through clinical treatment was that, at no

point, did anyone say, "Everything is going to be OK." It is that

message of hope that is so important and charities like MIND do a lot for

that and public speakers, young public speakers. People like Stephen

Fry, Ruby Wax are all doing a great job. But no-one young has come out

and said, "I can live my life again." There needs to be more on

giving friends and family support. Lisa was my twin sister. I didn't

know what advice to give. When Lisa was going through treatment, there

wasn't any help for friends and family. That was the biggest support

for you. Yeah.You needed us there. That is the main thing. That message

of hope that you can get through it and that there is light at the end

of the tunnel. Where is Dawn? You are a psychologist. You have dealt

with young people a lot as a counsellor. What is the key to

tackling this? Gosh. I mean, mental health as somebody was saying

before, it is dictated by a variety of factors. They all interact. They

define our mental health and wellbeing. It is very difficult to

say this is what the answer is. In my experience, I work in private

practice now, but I am noticing a lot more younger people are coming

to see me. A lot of them will say they haven't been to speak to their

GP, they haven't been to see family or friends and I am the first person

they have spoken to about it. I think it is really important that we

provide the environment in which it is OK to talk about these things and

not to feel afraid to talk about them. I was talking earlier about

the fact that social media and the fact we rely so much on technology,

on communicating electronically with computers, iPads and tablets.

Sometimes I think we are losing the ability to communicate with each

other. We are relying on electronic means so much that when we try to

sit down to talk about something very serious to somebody, we can't

do it. We are so used to typing in an e-mail or something else like

that. That is quite a significant influence as well. So, there is a

whole range of factors. Mental health starts in our younger years,

childhood is when things start to develop and our experiences as

children can have a huge impact on how we cope as an adult. It is about

being comfortable with face to face interaction, talking about stuff and

destigmatising? More therapists, as people are saying here, we need to

concentrate on the fact that people do get better. There is hope. There

are people out there who can help. It is about - in therapy, I always

say, "The first session, we will do this together." That is a really

important message. Absolutely. Kirstie, who asked the question

earlier, has made a little film about her own experiences. Living

with depression and anxiety is all consuming. You become locked within

yourself. It is very much like a fall. Everything came to a head. I

was only 11. I decided I was going to kill myself. People who have

mental health problems often are seen as a phase, they are told to

snap out of it. I feel like I am beating the thing that beat me for

ten or 11 years. This is my organisation board where I write

things I have got on. I need to keep a routine. If I'm not organised, it

becomes much easier for my moods to become more erratic. Recovery

doesn't mean you are cured. I am coping better. I work for the eked

en burring Self Harm Project. I have to be on top of my game. I'm a role

model. I do think social media does impact on people's mental health. It

is very easy when you are not feeling good to text someone. You

can avoid people. You don't have to see people. If I'm already feeling

quite crap, I will not use social networking sides for any support.

There is this constant influx of how amazing everyone's life is. We are

portraying our lives as something that they are not. I will have to

close everything off and I won't bother. I need face to face contact.

Shall we go up in the town? You can do everything from behind the

screen. We are human beings. The thing we communicate with most is

eye contact. It would be sad if we forgot how to talk to each other.

Kirstie is echoing what Dawn was saying. How big an impact do you

think that social media is having on our mental health? Yes, this lady?

think that social network does impact on a lot of people. It is a

barrier, like it is always about. There should be more body language

and eye contact and people should speak to each other. I feel too many

people hide behind the screen and just say everything is OK when they

are not. They should speak more. Yes, hand here? I also feel like

things like Facebook and Twitter, you are never going to put out there

that you are not feeling good. You are going to really show how great

your life is and photos of you looking good and happy so everyone

never see anyone unhappy. Some people use it to put themselves out

there. My sister has battled with mental imbalances for many years.

She post statuses quite regularly and a lot of people get annoyed and

go, "She is so attention seeking." When I see her, I know to go round

to her flat, I know to contact her and that is helpful for me. That is

a useful tool for you. On that point, lots of people at home are

talking about this being permanently switched on. "We are expected to be

on call 24/7. If we are go, go, go, we will run ourselves into the

ground. Request t "A similar point from Simon. "The everything must be

done in five minutes society, too much pressure." So coming back to

what Jane said originally. Can I come back in? Although there's not

been much work done on this, a girl in the audience has a Stonewall

T-shirt on. There was a report that was looking at cyberbullying and how

that affected people's mental health. They found that more than

half of young gay bisexual people in schools said that they had bullying,

a huge part of that being cyberbullying. One in four were

trying to commit suicide. I think people who are using Facebook, and

Twitter, they have to be aware of what they are doing with other

people and be aware of others, too. It is not about just showing how

good your own life is. We have seen how it can be used as a tool to

target people. We have to be aware of that. It does affect people.

There is that link there. We have seen that link. As people who all

use the internet, we have to be responsible on the internet as well

as in real life, too. We will be talking a lot more about that later

on in the show. Have you got some more messages? I do. Daniel says,

"Mental illness comes from an unequal society where you are never

going to do as your middle-class counter-parts." Jenny says, "I don't

think modern life is the cause. It is people who cause bullying. The

tech nol noling only helps them being anonymous." Si, "Tough enough

and snap out of it are two of the most degrading terms for people with

mental health issues." In you want your point of view read out, you

have to make it first. Head to facebook.com/BBCFreeSpeech. For

Twitter it is @BBCFreeSpeech. Or you can go to bbc.co.uk/FreeSpeech.

Next, let's move the debate on mental health on. 2,000 psychiatric

beds have been cut in England in the last two years and more than half of

English councils say they cut their budgets for children and young

people's mental health services last year. Jonny Benjamin investigated in

a documentary for BBC Three. One of the worst failures happened

when I was a student in Manchester. It was before I was diagnosed and I

was going through a serious mental breakdown. I felt like I was being

possessed by the devil. I was in the grips of psychosis and desperate to

take my life. So I ran out the house. I was walking the streets,

completely out of control. I remember running alongside this busy

road screaming and shouting at all the cars going past. Eventually, I

collapsed and I remember my housemates found me and they took me

to the local A&E down the road. I wanted to end it all. I told the

psychiatrist this, but he said there wasn't much he could do. He didn't

have any beds available. He gave me some Valium and sent me on my way.

We have a question from Michael. Where is Michael? What do you want

to ask? Do you feel like the NHS provides enough support for young

people? OK. Tina, can you get that? I am just launching the question on

Facebook and Twitter. You can have your say online. Jonny is here. I

would like to speak to him first. How would you respond to the

question that Michael has just asked? Does the NHS provide enough

support for young people? No, I don't think so, unfortunately. That

is due to the fact that mental health spending keeps falling, so

the NHS doesn't have the resources that they need to deal with the

amount of young people coming in with mental health problems. This is

all angles, from GPs, A&E departments. If you go to an A&E

department and you have self-harmed, only 50% of these cases receive an

assessment. The rest are sent home. It is not good enough. Too many

young people are losing their lives. Four young people every day take

their lives. So, not enough is being done to help them. APPLAUSE

Where are you on this, panel? Ruth? I give you 30 seconds to tell us

where you are. I think when you are talking about the NHS supporting

young people and health comes across-the-board, we think it starts

at birth, that is why we want more spent on the under twos, we want

universal health visitor coverage in Scotland, but also if we are talking

specifically about mental health, we are seeing money put in by the UK

Government, that is coming up here to Scotland as well. There is �400

million being put in over the course of the Spending Review period and we

get that up here in Scotland, too. In terms of the clinical

applications, we need to be a lot stronger with people at the sharp

end. A&E specifically, to be able to flag up. It is not just about acute

healthcare. It is about social care in the communities, too. It is

linking that as well. I have given you 50 seconds! I don't know why.

You need to be able to look after people in their own communities as

well. Ranj? I think we have to be completely honest. The NHS does a

fantastic job most of the time for most people, 24/7, seven days a

week. It does do a good job. When it comes to certain people, it could be

better and we need to be honest about that. The care of young

people's mental health is the job of society as a whole. It is about care

at home. It is about support at school. I agree, we could be better

and we are doing better. We are investing more money. We are trying,

although it's a very different story from the Government than it is from

doctors on the ground. Some of us are trying to speak up to make

things better. What are people saying about the NHS? Paul is

agreeing with your point and saying what about the young people's

families? Why is it some stranger's responsibility? The family has a

duty of care, too. Stop making it other people's responsibility for

parenting in this country. He doesn't think it's the NHS's

responsibility. Paula says, "Staff of A&E are not there to discover

underlying problems. They should, yes. But lack of time and resources

prevents this happening." It is worth bearing in mind the NHS deals

with over a million patients every 36 hours. They are swamped. Aileen?

I think the NHS, everyone is proud of the fact we have the NHS in this

country and it is doing a fantastic job. The people who work there are

so dedicated to making sure that the health and wellbeing of people is

cared for. I think going back to one of the other audience member's

points about mental health having its start in childhood is an

important point as well. If we can support children in their earliest

years, we can lay firm foundations for them to have happy lives later

on. That approach is something we need to be mindful of as well,

making sure if your parents need support that they get that support

when and where they needed. People, parents, they do a fantastic job,

but they can need a bit of help from time to time. We did some economic

modelling. For every �1 you spent in the early years, you spent �9 on

cures. Those economics stack up as well. We are investing in calm

services for young people. Like Ranj says, with e can always do more and

do better. What we are doing is trying to make sure that young

people are cared for in the NHS. People do value the support they get

from the NHS. We can do more. But we need to make sure that it is more

than the NHS there. We have social services, teachers - lots of people

have a stake in this. We need to make sure we are supporting young

people to the best of our abilities and we are doing that. We can do

more, but in Scotland we are doing not too badly. Jane, do you think

the NHS can cope with the amount of mental illness in the UK? I have

lived in countries with private healthcare. In Los Angeles, you go -

I went to a doctor with a sore throat and he sent me for a CAT

scan! Anything you can do to prop it up, or we will live in an

American-crazed healthcare system. Who doesn't think the NHS isn't

doing a good job? Who thinks it is a mess? Yes, the gentleman here?

I have been to the psychologist before and they didn't even know I

was self-harming and trying to end my life. He ended up not diagnosing

it. So, I was wanting Ranj's point on whether he should have diagnosed

it or not. Ranj? They should have. The thing is, I think we have to be

- we have to face up to the fact that young people aren't taken

seriously enough when it comes to their mental health as well as their

other health. People don't think young people get sick. They think

they are invincible. Therefore, they almost belittle their problems, and

that app political parties to mental health as well as their other issue.

If we started listening to young people and giving them a voice that

they should have, we wouldn't have a lot of these problems. Let's wake up

to the fact that there is a real problem when it comes to caring for

this group of people and we need to do better. OK. The gentleman here?

lot of people in defence of the NHS have said that it's the duty of

family and society to support people. But does this not raise

another issue of public spending which is that education about it? A

number of people who are very close to me suffer from mental health

issues. And when things are bad, I don't know what to say, I don't know

what to do. Often I end up doing the wrong thing. I tell them, "It

doesn't matter, it is not a big deal." It is a big deal to them. It

is very important to them. So that ends up exacerbating the situation.

We can't shirk our responsibility. The NHS is there to help people. It

is a health system designed to help people that need help. We can't

forget that. It is part of the puzzle. It is not the only thing

that is there. I think we need to pay attention to some other areas,

too. Where is David Green? I think you need to look where it was in

2010. It was a bureaucratic mess under the last Labour Government. So

if you look at the NHS reforms, there are some key Liberal Democrat

successes in that. Things like ensuring that the NHS budget is

protected, investing �400 million into mental healthcare, and more

transparency in the NHS through Local Health Boards. These are

really important. That is a strong record of action that is looking to

try and build a fairer society, but we need to recognise there is a lot

more that we need to do, but we are certainly getting there. OK. Yes, at

the back? I don't think everyone should blame the NHS. They are doing

wrong, but they are not perfect either. Before it gets to the stage

of being in A&E, why are they not getting educated in school about

mental health? They should educate and once people have the knowledge,

they can help doctors and friends, they can come together and make a

positive impact about stop being all negative and saying, "Nobody is

going to do anything." At the end of the day, we are human beings, we

need to come together to make it a more positive thing. A good point.

APPLAUSE What are people saying online? Loads of reaction coming in.

"Treatment alone isn't the solution as the underlying causes are never

solved. The NHS won't be able to cope." James says, "It is hard to

talk honestly to doctors who are older than you. They don't

understand." David says q t as a 25-year-old manager of an NHS site

in the North East, I believe there is resources out there for young

people, but it must be asked for and proactively sought. Friends and

family must reach out to assist in the care of patients." Let's see if

anything has changed on the Power Bar. Ranj, you are still in the

lead. You can influence the Power Bar, too. Get on Twitter and tell

our panelists what you think of them. Use #Yes no or #Yes followed

by their furs t name. Next up Bongo-bongo Land, a term used by

Godfrey Bloom in a speech about overseas aid. Let's put aside the

provocative phraseology. He claims much of the UK's �11 billion

overseas aid budget is unaccounted for and is spent on Ferraris and

sunglasses. The Department of International Development points out

their most recent expenditure was �10 million helping to eradicate a

polio outbreak in East Africa. Fay, what do you want to ask? Should

charity not start at home? OK. Jane, you have 30 seconds. Should charity

be starting at home given there are families struggling here? Can I have

four weeks? You can have 35 seconds! Superb(!) I live in East Africa. I

used to really want to work for a charity until I went to live there.

You would not believe what goes on. It is so easy to help

underprivileged people, invest in their businesses and let them get

jobs instead of charity. The charity industry is - I'm not talking about

the mow bile library van - -- mobile library van - when I drive down past

posh restaurants, the car parks are packed with Rez numberplates. These

are people whose job is to clear up the poverty, but they are having an

endless lunch meeting. You are walking up for some film about

poverty on a flight. UNICEF are nowhere near you on the plane. They

are up the front drinking free champagne. In two UN Headquarters

alone, �54 million went on flying business class by choice. Imagine

this, you want to improve your life. You put on a clean shirt and you ask

a bloke to give you a job. Imagine if some random white guy had told

that employer that you were a mess, that you had a chronic disease, you

couldn't feed your kids, the charity industry has spent 30 years running

down Africa and it wonders how Africa has a middle-class. I have

given you four weeks! I have to stop you. Aileen? I think the comments we

heard today were pretty out of - they weren't very nice at all. He

should reflect on what he said and think again about how he promotes

his views. Sure.I think though if we want to be a responsible member

of the world and we have a duty to make sure we provide help and

support to countries that are a bit less fortunate than our own. Why do

you supply it to bent governments? We have an international aid budget

within the Scottish Government. That is about working with countries we

have a link with. Yes, but...It is to make sure the benefit people in

Scotland give are felt in countries we help. They have still not met

their international obligations successfully. Successive governments

have refused to meet their targets to our neighbours around the world.

That is not a positive move at all. What we need to do is make sure we

have a positive impact on our neighbours around the world. It is

our duty as a good, global citizen, to be promoting help around the

world. I think what we need to do is make sure we don't just compare

apples with pears. We need to make sure there is fairness in this

society as well. That means not having the drastic welfare cuts that

we are seeing. It also means being responsible in the world as well and

making sure that countries are supported. It is right that we do

that. We need to be strategic in our approach. Make sure the help is

getting to those that need it. The Government in Scotland has been

trying to do that through engaging with projects. I think we can always

do more. Ruth? I think the woman is right. Things are tough in this

country. Godfrey Bloom's comments were disgusting. He is ignorant. I

think they were borderline racist. I'm proud of the UK... He's denied

being racist. He said he is old. There you go. I'm proud of the UK,

that it is meeting its Millennium Goals for 0.7%. I know we racked up,

the last Labour Government racked up huge deficit, massive debts. The

reason tough choices are being made now is so we don't pass that on to

our children, it is not fair. It is not fair to blame or to punish the

very poorest people in other parts of the world for the mistakes that

were made by the last Labour Government and others and the

bankers. I'm proud that we are helping the poorest people in the

world. If Godfrey Bloom wants to talk about what the UK's aid budget

is doing, let's talk about some of the crises that are going on right

now. The Government is also tackling in affecting the poorest people in

society. You have had your shot. Let me finish this. APPLAUSEWorld Bank

says the average income here, GDP is 38 thoul thousand dollars, in Mali

it is 694. We have had to put �20 million in the last six months. That

is not being spent on Raybands, or fighter jets, it is not being spent

on flats in Paris, it is being spent on medical care for women who are

being raped, it is being spent on crisis care and feeding, they have a

massive programme of feeding there, it is being used by the UN to feed

the two million people who need food aid. I am proud the UK is

contributing to that. We should continue to contribute to that.

Remember, we are live and you can talk to us now on Facebook. We are

on Twitter, and BBC Online. Let's hear your opinion. This lady here?

Shouldn't we be tackling the home lessness, the people who can't eat

in the UK first before, like, they are still being people raped in the

UK, there's still people that can't get injections, there are still

people that can't get a roof over their head, even through homeless

accommodation. People that have to go to churches and soup kitchens to

be able to put food into their mouths. Shouldn't we be

concentrating on that first? I think we can do both. The Government is

trying to do both. Where is the development in our own country?

introduced legislation that was passed with cross-party support to

tackle that issue. It is not a case of you can't try and help people at

home if you are helping people abroad. You can do both. I don't

think when you have got people living on less than $2 a day it is

morally responsible for us, as one of the richer nations in the world,

to turn our backs on them because we are having problems at home. You can

do both. I'm saying, like, for instance, as soon as I got into

Edinburgh today I seen a man sleeping on the street begging for

money, like shouldn't we be trying to get these guys off the street as

well as helping foreign countries? We should. Why are there still

people sleeping on the streets? can't talk about that individual

man's circumstances. Aileen, you have probably the figures on this.

We have tried to do some stuff on that. LAUGHTER We have passed

landmark legislation to eradicate homelessness as well and the figures

are going down. But also, though, a lot of the things we do in Scotland

are undermined by the bedroom tax and things like that. These are the

things we have no control over. While it is OK to say we should try

and tackle poverty in Scotland and around the world, that is great and

as a Government, we are doing what we can with the powers that we have

to try and tackle poverty. While it is being undermined by the harsh and

regressive welfare reforms that are coming from the UK Government. The

bedroom tax is one example. APPLAUSE One more point from a gentleman over

here. Just - how about taking a different view of international aid?

How about considering that handing, whether it is money or resources,

over to the impoverished parts of the world doesn't do it. Open up our

trade barriers. Let us trade with these parts of the world and let

them benefit from capitalism. Let them enjoy the benefits of trade and

that private investment rather than handing over resources. Interesting

point. What are people saying at home? This is the reaction coming

in. Joseph says, "Why should we be going further into debt to give aid

to foreign countries, especially to countries where human rights aren't

respected?" Jason says, "The struggles we face are nothing

compared to around the world." Alex says, "Depends what you think, we

live in a small world." Angela says, "Due to globalisation, the world is

home." Let's look at the Power Bar. Ranj, you are still in the lead.

Very good. Next up, the birth of Prince George of Cambridge which

created a lovely warm glow for most people. It's certainly attracted the

attention of the world's press. Here in Scotland, the reaction from some

quarters was different. The chairman of the Scottish Independence Group

described the prospect of the Prince being King of Scotland as an affront

to democracy. The Fringe is under way, so we asked a bunch of

than the last King of Scotland, who was Idi Amin. He was a brutal man.

They get so upset if you take anything away from a baby. The first

thing that happens to baby George is he loses one of his countries, that

will really upset him! In terms of independence, if Scotland is a lady

who has had a terrible boyfriend, England, for a long time. He never

really understood her. Scotland, you need to pull yourself together and

get a push-up bra, get your roots done, have a white wine. There is

nothing to be scared of. I think if you are going to go, you need to go.

You can't leave and go, "We'll keep the monarchy and we will keep other

English stuff, like David Beckham." You are either in or you are out,

OK. Don't go, but if you do, you are not having George! Can I keep my

castle? Good luck, Scotland. Don't get off with the first person that

will have you. We will miss you. Strong message there. Aaron has a

question. Go on? Is having a monarch necessary for Scotland? OK. Aileen,

"yes" or "no"? The Scottish Government's position is... That is

not "yes" or "no". Do I not get 30 seconds? I suppose so.The Scottish

Government position's is that the Queen would remain head of state.

Like many people in Scotland, I believe the sovereignty of people is

a very important thing. It would be up to people to decide whether or

not that would remain the case thereafter. I think it is up to

folk, it is folk like yourselves who have a say in how the country is

shaped. That is a really exciting thing. The birth of a child is

always a happy event. Everyone wishes Prince George all the very

best. But for the country to move forward, a "yes" vote next year will

enable us to take the decisions about how that country would look

like and that includes deciding who would be the future head of state.

Does that echo how you feel about it, Ruth? I hope very much we stay

as part of the United Kingdom. We have the best of both worlds. We can

make decisions about our NHS, police, the courts, but we are also

part of a a home and we walk on the world stage as a member of the

Security Council at the UN, we do more together. We have a fantastic

UK armed forces. I also like the Royals. I am proud of the Queen. I'm

an unashamed royalist and monarchist. The Queen has done a

fantastic job for 60 years. I like the younger generation. I hope

George will go on and serve in the armed forces and go on to be a good

figurehead and role model as we move forward. OK. Russ, you are from the

Yes Scotland Campaign. Where to you stand on the issue of monarchy for

Scotland? From Yes Scotland's perspective, the vote is on nothing

but independence for Scotland. The Union of the Crown is completely

separate. I'm a Republican, like the chair of the campaign. He stressed a

lot that he said that in a personal capacity. Both Dennis and I were

converts to Ince ips -- independence. The point of the

independence debate and the point of the "yes" campaign is to give the

people of Scotland this decision. We should be the ones to decide whether

we live under a monarchy. That can only happen with independence. On

day one of independence, we will still be with the Queen, we will

still keep the monarchy. That is a decision for later on. You would

have a second referendum? Potentially. That depends on who

wins the election. That is the point of independence. That depends on who

win the election in 2016. Most of the parties don't propose a

referendum on the monarchy. We do. We are a party that is a Republican

Party. Most parties aren't. Most people in Scotland aren't

Republicans. I'm comfortable with that because the point of

independence is just to give us that choice, that option. OK. APPLAUSE

Yes, you want to say something? is not really, it will work in the

short-term but not in the long-term for me. What happens if Scotland is

independent and you run out of money at some point? What do you do then?

Really, I would say more devolved powers is a better idea, stay as

part of the UK but give Scotland more independent powers. Yes?

think Alex Salmond's glorified campaign is all good and well, but

we had a straw poll amongst our friends. 100% said they didn't know

enough about it. I understand we have a year to the referendum. There

is not enough grassroots work being done by unbiased voices. That is the

key. I moved down to London when I was 18. I am proud of my dual

identity. I am still patriotic about Scotland. I don't know how many

people would say they were informed enough to vote tomorrow or next week

on the referendum. I think there is not enough young voices telling

people what their lives are going to be like. It is our generation that

it is going to change. The lady with the hand up? I heard an interesting

analogy which I would like to share. A friend said, "If you lived in a

house that you were comfortable in, and it was a nice enough house,

would you move into a mystery house which you know nothing about?" I

thought that was quite a relevant discussion. What do you think about

that? Sounds quite exciting to me! Yes? I should probably point out are

we comfortable in this house? The UK is the fourth most unequal country

in the world. We have a UK Government who would rather spend

billions on nuclear weapons and cut education and the NHS. APPLAUSE The

gentleman here? I think in response to that point, it is pretty silly to

think that if you go independent with all the instability and not

necessarily being in the EU, to think that you will be able to

commit more resources to what you want to spend it on, when quo if you

are going to commit to NATO and the EU, you have a lot of commitment

which might not necessarily have been taken into account. To think

you can carry on with your own agenda, whilst ignoring everybody

else's. That is a naive and silly point. Ranj, where do you stand on

this? If Scottish people don't know enough about it, I definitely don't

know enough about it. I would say the people need to speak and they

need to be informed enough to be able to speak up. And really know

what it means. I don't know what it would mean if Scotland didn't have a

monarchy. I thought it was really nice that everyone came together to

look at baby George, or whatever his name is. LAUGHTEREveryone was on

telly Twittering away. It was such a nice thing. I don't know what it

would be like if we didn't, if you guys didn't have that. It is fairly

difficult for me to say. It is nice that we all stand holding hands,

isn't it? The independence is not about building a big wall at the

border. It is about empowering Scotland to take decisions that are

relevant to the needs and wishes of people who live here. So it is about

having not a neighbour to draw on your housing analogy, but having a

good partner in the world. We would have our own voice on the global

stage to be able to articulate the needs... Scotland will be closer to

England by separating away from England, Wales and Northern Ireland?

That is not... APPLAUSEAt the moment. I will say you two can argue

about this afterwards! We haven't got long left. What are people

saying online? "If they don't want to stay part of the United Kingdom,

they shouldn't get the king." "The monarchy helps define us amongst

other countries." "We need to have a truly democratic republic." The

Power Bar, let's see if anything has changed. Ranj, you are still

leading. Aileen, you have gone backup. Good stuff. It can still

change. Let's move on to our final question about social media. We love

it. Tina loves it. If you are tweeting our Power Bar, you love it,

too. A third man was arrested this morning in relation to alleged

Twitter threats to MP Stella Creasy and campaigner, Caroline

Criado-Perez. Yesterday, the father of a teenager who committed suicide

following bullying on ask.fm called the creator of the site to be

charged with manslaughter. We aren't going to focus on these individual

cases, but they do Rass an issue. Is a report abuse button enough. David

has a question? What is your question. Do you think the people

who - sorry - do you think the social networks should be held

responsible for the cyberbullying? Let's get a line from each of the

panel. Aileen? Should they be responsible? I think they could do

more. The fact that it took a long time to get Twitter to react and for

ask.fm to respond. They need to take their responsibilities very

seriously indeed. The issues that you raised were just awful, awful

things to happen. The young girl who took her own life, but the abuse

that those two women got for campaigning to have a woman on a

banknote. My goodness! What they did was a great thing. The things that

they had on their Twitter feeds was disgusting. We should do more to

protect users. Ranj? I don't think they are going to have complete

responsibility. They do need to take their fair share. It is more about

educating and empowering people that are users to be able to say no to be

able to block, to know where to go for help, to know what to do when

things go wrong. That is far more important and give them the

facilities to be able to do that than just policing every tweet or

Facebook profile or status update. Jane? It is cheaper for news

programmes to run reams of stuff from Twitter than it is to pay

journalists. Then it makes these people on Twitter look like they

matter. Who was commenting on the Guardian's section - Jonathan King.

It is daft. OK. Ruth? Twitter has a responsibility. It gives people a

platform to say what ever they like. When they say things which are

threatening rape and murder, stuff that is a crime, then it has a

responsibility to take that platform away from those people. Yes, it

should have a button that you press to report individual cases of abuse,

a single tweet button. That is a good advance. It needs to have the

people that are monitoring those reports coming in so they can pull

them much quicker than they were. We need to look at identifying who

these people are. When you become a Twitter user, you don't necessarily

tell Twitter who you are. Maybe that is something we have to look at.

Sure. Yes, this gentleman here? think just reporting and blocking

somebody isn't going to change it. That will just pass it on to

somebody else. Should it not go further? That is stopping that one

person being affected but they will move on to somebody else. That

should go further than just blocking that one person? Blocking is not

enough. The gentleman here? I read a good quote online that said the

internet sees censorship. I'm interested to think what the panel

would think in terms of regulation, how would you stop these things from

happening? How would you stop this stuff from happening, Ranj? What I

think - take away people's anonymity and make them own up and be

responsible for their tweets and for the stuff they put on there. The

internet is full of junk. You are not going to get rid of all of it.

You can make people responsible for what they write. OK. Yes, you asked

the question? You say there should be a report button. There is a

report button, but you get blocked for 14 days. Is that enough? There

is police out there that could - there is hate crime. Should that not

be part of a hate crime? It is really - there is somebody taking

their own life, is that not a real risk? The Government wants Scotland

to be independent, do you not think that should be a start, like, for

people, like, we are going to go down in numbers... There is a lot to

talk about. We have to go to Tina and wrap up. Lots of messages coming

in. Ryan says, "No, because you can walk away from the screen. It is

your own free will to be on the site." Joseph says, "No, I think

people using the social networking site should be more responsible on

the sites. You can deactivate." And Clayton says, "Your posts, your

words, your responsibility." Let's take a final look at the Power Bar.

Is there any change? Ranj, you are still in the lead. The final 30

seconds goes to the panelist who has had most online love. Ranj, that is

you. It is only ten seconds, though. Alright. One thing I will say is as

a young person, don't be scared to come forward for help. There are

lots of people that are out there specifically rooting for you, trying

to listen to you. Make sure you have a voice and we will listen. APPLAUSE

Very positive message. Thank you. That is almost it. Thanks to our

audience, our panel and to you at home. The debate continues online.

Join us next time live on September 4th in London. Let's return to our

main theme and the Edinburgh Fringe. We will leave you with the Strung Up

Theatre Company and an extract from see the drawn look in your eyes.

Like someone has gouged out my insides. I feel full, like I've been

stuffed to burst. I see the dead weight that holds you... Sand is

filling up my insides. There is a pain in me... Each tiny grain...I

see the veneer crack... Up-and-up to my shoulders, more and more...

something surfaced... Up...And I know it... Pouring out of my mouth,

up-and-up, filling up my brain so I can't think. I see you