Zero Hours Contracts Free Speech

This is Free Speech. Tonight zero hours contracts and earn or learn.

education, is it still too hard hours contracts and earn or learn.

go to uni? Have your say on the stories that matter to you live

go to uni? Have your say on the BBC Three. If you are on a zero

hours contract you only get two hours a week, it is pointless.

young people are that. Teenagers are I'm Rick Edwards and there is a

young people are that. Teenagers are to talk about tonight. Exclusive

interviews with Ed Miliband and to talk about tonight. Exclusive

Clegg, and their answers to your questions. Stay with me for Free

Speech, live from the Guildhall questions. Stay with me for Free

CHEERING They are here to tell us what they think and we want to hear

Daheley. Good evening to you. I what they think and we want to hear

One really easy way to get your voice heard is via the Power Bar. I

responds in real-time to what you think of the panel's point of view.

And it operates via Twitter. Use #yes or #no followed by the first

name of a panellist each time you agree or disagree with them. And

here is our panel whose job is to tell us who they are and why they

are here. Katie? I'm Katie Hopkins, I'm a businesswoman and broadcaster

and I'm here for all the people I'm a businesswoman and broadcaster

are fed up with things that are politically correct. I'm Julian

Huppert, I'm a Member of Parliament for Cambridge. I'm passionate about

free speech and I'm pleads it is coming to Cambridge, capital of

free speech and I'm pleads it is speech. I'm Laurie Penny and I'm a

Conservative Party and we have speech. I'm Laurie Penny and I'm a

Conservative Party and we have you wanted to put to our political

a big topic. More than 1 million you wanted to put to our political

Nick Clegg have to say about them? under 25 you are twice as likely to

Nick Clegg have to say about them? I think that many people are right

to be concerned about zero hours contracts. In my office recently he

to be concerned about zero hours a care workers from Newcastle who

told me his story. He said to me, I can't build my life around around a

zero hours contract because I don't know from one week to another how

many hours I will be doing and how much wages we would be getting.

We'll ban certain types of zero hours contracts. They can exploit

some employees. They might work hours contracts. They can exploit

some people, but for instance in situations where you have a zero

whether that employer will need situations where you have a zero

and you prevented from looking for other forms of employment, that

and you prevented from looking for think might be really unfair. We are

contracts, because we think Britain can do better than the kind of

insecurity that many zero hours contracts offer to people. So we are

reviewing it very carefully and we'll come forward with measures to

make sure that zero hours contract hours offer flexibility where people

need and want that but not in a hours offer flexibility where people

Apologises for that slight sound problem with Ed Miliband. What would

you like to ask? How can people support themselves on zero hours

contracts? Let's start with you Katie. Don't hold back. I think

contracts? Let's start with you many people actually zero hours

contracts? Let's start with you really well and a great deal of

nurses that work for nursing banks, 89% say they are brilliant, because

they allow them theflect to look after their families to adapt their

they allow them theflect to look work around their needs as a family

and unit and allows them to work out how many hours they would like to do

businesses out there really need. If how many hours they would like to do

you classify your employees as redundancy pay. From my personal

you classify your employees as that's paid maternity pay I think

Would you agree with any of that? I hours contracts are fantastic for

employers, but I'm not sure we should be concentrating our efforts

on what's great for employers. This recovery is focused on handing money

back to the rich at the expense recovery is focused on handing money

the poor. Zero hours contracts are exploitative. They are devastating

for individual people trying to exploitative. They are devastating

their lives. When you talk about flexibility it is flexible for

people who are employing but people who are working they have no choice.

They are not allowed to choose when they come into work and when they

don't. They are waiting for their employer to call or not, while their

basic rights are taken away. It employer to call or not, while their

outrageous and shouldn't be allowed. APPLAUSE Who agrees with Laurie

outrageous and shouldn't be allowed. who agrees with Katie? No-one agrees

with anyone? I agree that zero hours especially for me as a student.

with anyone? I agree that zero hours means I haveflect if I have loads of

work on at uni I can ring up and say I'm I can't work this week. You

work on at uni I can ring up and say an interview with a proof employer

and at the end interview you know what you are signing. If you need

hours that you are relying on for income, don't sign for a zero hours

fantastic people like that who recognise an opportunity when they

see one and happens to agree with fantastic relationship with people

like yourselves. She said being fantastic relationship with people

time with what the girl said, so what about when you finish uni and

money at the end of the day. That's what not? You need to get a bit

money at the end of the day. That's not a bit of money at the end of the

day. That's not going to - zaoer contracted hours, if you are not at

uni or what not, you want to be flexible with money. That's not

team Katie there. My company pays part-time thing, so... OK. If you

team Katie there. My company pays they are probably talking about

team Katie there. My company pays pay, maybe getting paid for overtime

too. Julian? There are clearly some cases where people want to work

too. Julian? There are clearly some hours contracts and it does work.

That's fine. But they are also been thousands of people trying to make a

living to earn the cash to get through the work. If you have no

idea how much work you will have, that's hard. People are locked in to

particular employers but may get no hours. People are being punished,

they will get fewer hours next week. It is really hard. I suspect a lot

of people don't get the national minimum wage when they are on it. We

have to massively clamp down on minimum wage when they are on it. We

exploitative ones so that people can have the opportunity for security. I

don't see maternity pay and sick pay as luxuries that we can scrap. It is

really important... But you've never paid them. You've never been a small

business employer. People have to get on with their lives. You've

never paid them. I think they are fantastic things and I'm delighted

that we are in a situation where we can look after people who are sick

and pregnant. Until you've paid them, you can't really speech. I

APPLAUSE Katie thinks you shouldn't speak but I'm going to let you. A

pertinent point about the need for jobs after University. If we hadn't

created 1 million jobs this the jobs after University. If we hadn't

few years, for every one job created under zero hours contracts we've had

11 jobs being created in that time. So we have theflect coming in, so

people that are students, as we kids, people who need to be able to

have flebl hours, they can have kids, people who need to be able to

and everyone can progress on to kids, people who need to be able to

afterwards. A really important job cks point, do you have the right as

an employee on zero hours contracts to turn down the hours that your

employer has offered you. It offers flect to the employer and employee.

It is win, win and to try to make flect to the employer and employee.

that legal, as o the employer and flect to the employer and employee.

be offered hours the next week. I Party are, it will put thousands of

be offered hours the next week. I seriously discussing whether it

should be permissible to take away maternity pay and sickness benefits

for hundreds of thousands of people. many people in this country rely on

employers don't like to pay them. That's why they are written into

law. If employers didn't have to pay their workers anything I'm sure

law. If employers didn't have to pay working people have always had to

APPLAUSE Small business employers... Small business employers are the

enengine house of this economy. That's what we are told. They are

the ones that are generating jobs, the ones that will give you guys

jobs and the ones that need to be defended from this type of liberal

thinking. We've heard from all of judgment time for the panel. Let's

Where's Alex? Are you for or against zero hours contracts? I'm extremely

against zero hours contracts. I zero hours contracts? I'm extremely

a zero hours contract at the moment, but I think it is just the tip of

the iceberg. It's about eroding but I think it is just the tip of

rights as young people in and out of work. As well as working a zero

hours contract, I also was self employed door-to-door. Because

hours contract, I also was self self employed I wasn't eligible

hours contract, I also was self minimum wage, sick pay, holiday

hours contract, I also was self tuition fees, David Cameron saying

hours contract, I also was self sort of picture that these people

be treated like come out of work or for another pointless war that David

be treated like come out of work or Cameron seems so willing to start

again. It is not good enough to Cameron seems so willing to start

expect young people to take such piecemeal offers while the rest

expect young people to take such society gets so much more than we

do, just because we are young and because we want a flebl lifestyle.

Of society gets so much more than we do, just because we are young and

because we want a flebl lifestyle. It's -- a flexible lifestyle. It is

APPLAUSE Due feel like a slave? No, I've worked a zero hours contract

and feel if anything I have a better relationship with my employer,

because ky say, is I can't work relationship with my employer,

weekend, and they say, can you work this? And I say, yes I can. I'm

weekend, and they say, can you work uni, so it is perfect. I can go

home, do my work and concentrate on my degree. All I can say, I disagree

with Katie and I agree with this employer shows their employee I

with Katie and I agree with this they show it back to them. If they

are not going to give them the hours, I hope they won't put in

are not going to give them the work. I hope the business loses

money because he doesn't earn money. I don't know if you have ever had

the stress of not getting sick pay, but if you have a contract where you

don't get it and you are ill and you have to force yourself to go back to

you are not well enough to do your job and you are not going pay.

LAUGHTER Secondly... But you would if you got ill. People who work

LAUGHTER Secondly... But you would themselves, small business owners,

have a third of the sick days that have to get out there and earn and

have a third of the sick days that we can't be lounging around in bed

complaini about a little bit of we can't be lounging around in bed

flu. I'm an a zero hours contract holiday pay and sick pay. I think a

at quiet times of the year. It is lot of employers wouldn't be able to

at quiet times of the year. It is can be good for some people but

at quiet times of the year. It is everyone, so they are not being

at quiet times of the year. It is APPLAUSE Loads of messages coming

We've been talking about small businesses but big businesses use

them too. If you want your point of view read out you have got to make

earning or learning. The Prime Minister says that a Conservative

Government after 2015 will axe housing benefit and jobseeker's

allowance for under 25s if they don't take their chance to earn

allowance for under 25s if they learn. Cue Mr Cameron. Go to school,

apprenticeship, get a job, but just choose the dole? We've got to offer

learning. Amy has a question for us. How can the Government completely

justify cutting all benefits for young people? I need to do something

Oliver? Oliver? I think what we Twitter right now, so join in and

Oliver? Oliver? I think what we heard from David Cameron is we have

to give people an alternative that's better than that. It is not about

cutting the cords and letting people fall but giving a real offer to

people in terms of better education, better training on the job and

actually get back into work under large number of workless households

actually get back into work under better than benefits I'm not sure

how you can oppose the idea of people earning or learning. There

are 1 million young people out of work and you've cut EMA, tripled

tuition fees. We've got the biggest crisis in youth unemployment in

living memory. You can't say that the future is bright for young

people in employment right now. What we have seen a applications to

universities increase over the past three or four years, number of

increase. David Cameron said we three or four years, number of

to off people a better alternative. That's what it is about. It is not

about having a stick and hitting young people. That would be absurd

and we would oppose that. It's the review by Jeremy Heywood, who used

addressing the real problems that keep people out of employment.

Julian, do you think Mr Cameron keep people out of employment.

offing a better of to young people? The Government is not doing this. We

in the Lib Dems have said to the Tories no, you can't do it. We've

said no to their plans to scrap least until them and hopefully

forever. I've taken the manager least until them and hopefully

the YMCA to see Iain Duncan Smith why you can't say to people in a

YMCA, go home and stay with your loving, stable family. I wish they

say that we want to see young people absolutely right but ping punishing

people who cannot find a job, people applications out. If you take money

out you are not going to send even have to help people into employment.

apprentices, with the fantastic Cambridge regional college nearby

Punishing them is an absurd idea. learn. That's the right thing to

Punishing them is an absurd idea. Hopefully it won't ever happen. It

is the right ambition but gone about the wrong way. What's the social

media response? Fiona has agreed with you. Stopping benefits for

media response? Fiona has agreed to 24-year-old will do nothing to

tackle unemployment but will simply cause misery, poverty, homelessness

and ill health for millions of unemployment? If the Government

stopped cutting jobs and created basically you don't become a citizen

until you are 25. Housing benefits claimed by thousands of people who

work, so you are saying people in towards other people's benefits

work, so you are saying people in not be entitled to them themselves.

An interesting point. Katie? It not be entitled to them themselves.

time we started being fair to people who paid money out for people to

claim welfare. It is time we started focusing on the hard-working people

in this country. If it was me I would hand out jobseeker's allowance

between the hours of 6.00am and would hand out jobseeker's allowance

6.00pm and up 18 flights of stairs. People assume welfare is the right

way to go. We want people to work harder, fight harder and... There's

a lot of people at home... ALL TALK AT People are sick of people paying

out for others and they don't draw the occur Tehrans and look for work.

You can huff and puff as much as you like. I'm sure the people out of

work right now would love to be hundreds of thousands of people

work right now would love to be unable to get a job. They are unable

to find stable employment. Many unable to get a job. They are unable

them are on zero hours contracts that you mentioned you a would love

rest you need to live. Many of those young people can't just run home to

rest you need to live. Many of those poor young people, teenage runaways,

year and the Government need to for years the Government's been

year and the Government need to taking away benefits, vital services

and education for young people it is great that the Liberal Democrats

the rights of young people but where tripling tuition fees, when they

were taking away EMA. Do you want an opposed fees, I voted against the

completely the wrong thing to do. It introduced them in the first place.

On EMA I fought hard. There was introduced them in the first place.

special thing so that the most vulnerable people, care givers.

special thing so that the most don't like the fact that there's

less money after all but I'm pleased that the most desperate get more

money than they did under EMA. Amy, you posed the question, what do

money than they did under EMA. Amy, can't go home to mummy and daddy.

For the last nine months I've been working with young people who are

homeless, people with mental health issues, it was originally a six

month contract. Council extended it for another three months and then it

ended and there was no money left. Now I work six hours a month and I'm

doing everything I can every day to find another job but I haven't got

one yet. I can't go running home to mummy and daddy, so I'm going to

have to sleep on a park bench if APPLAUSE Under the help to work

scheme there's three simple criteria that will allow tow continue to

claim benefits. Turning the up to the Jobcentre to sign on every day.

which I think is a positive thing. I committed a crime I thought they

which I think is a positive thing. I were the ones that picked up litter.

which I think is a positive thing. I work you should be paid. We have a

minimum wage, so if you are... Excuse me, can I make my point?

You've made a lot of points tonight, most of them I think are environment

a really important point, when you work you should be paid. We have a

minimum wage. If you are forced work you should be paid. We have a

work 40 hour weeks. You have got the wrong attitude, Sir. This is a

disgusting attack on the welfare state. We have welfare for all

working class people. Katie, can you stop and allow people po speak. We

have welfare for working class people. People create the wealth.

Why are they attacked. The PCS, people. People create the wealth.

trade union of the workers who run the Jobcentres say that the scheme

is unworkable. Workers are having run the scheme. Not only is it a

horrible attack on young people run the scheme. Not only is it a

APPLAUSE You Sir. I think everyone is making it sound like there's

APPLAUSE You Sir. I think everyone Cambridge one month and have been

offered three jobs already and I've taken one of them. I think it is

disgusting that people are paying more money than my family do. They

are sitting at home an benefits more money than my family do. They

are getting more than us. Good man. Good for you. Katie, I don't doubt

you haven't worked hard in the past. You must have worked hard in the

forgotten how it feels to suffer and you haven't born in mind it is so

much harder nowadays. You don't you haven't born in mind it is so

how it feels. This is why we are against you and we are with the

Is there something wrong with the Power Bar? It is definitely working.

Use #yes or #no followed by their first name. Make your voice heard on

Free Speech. Tweet the Power Bar. Cambridge it is freshers week. Have

you signed up for pottery club and stuff? Good. More than 400,000

education this autumn, more than ever before. High demand but is

Here's what people in Cambridge ever before. High demand but is

I think access to higher education is extremely unequal. I think if you

I am a medical student at Cambridge, background. With motivation, hard

work and support I think everyone can get into the best universities

about £4,000 a year in burst ris and I got a lot of financial help.

about £4,000 a year in burst ris and I'm from a hostel and I'm in my

first year of college and I have a very long way to go to get to umplt

I'm extremely determined to get And Nick has a question for the

panel. Is access to higher education still too elitist? Is access to

panel. Is access to higher education education still too elitist? Jewel

yarntion you are the tist? Is access to hire education still too elitist?

Jewel yarntion you are the MP for Cambridge -- jewel yarntion you

Jewel yarntion you are the MP for the MP for Cambridge. There's a

still huge problem. We are not getting a fair balance of people in.

Since fees have changed, which I don't like, we've seen an increase

disadvantaged backgrounds coming in. Part of the problem is not all

schools are equally good. There Part of the problem is not all

huge problem that in disadvantaged areas we have worse schools. That is

not OK. We can't fail people at primary and secondary school and say

the universities can fix it. We primary and secondary school and say

to put more money into schools for backgrounds, it is called the pupil

premium. We need a level playing field so by the time people are

premium. We need a level playing they have had a fair opportunity and

had the chance. We have to make they have had a fair opportunity and

the universities are fair. Cambridge has three fantastic universities. It

is great to see at least two of has three fantastic universities. It

represented here. I know from having done admissions interviews we try

really hard to get it right. But it is frustrating when you have people

who've been let down by the system before that. There is a long, long

way to go to get the right people in. It is not all about higher

education. It has annoyed me for years, in this country we've talked

about university and the good thing to do and vocation apprenticeships

pleased we are trying to encourage to do and vocation apprenticeships

I don't know if there's apprentices to do and vocation apprenticeships

in the radio. I have one working to do and vocation apprenticeships

a lot. It is something I want to see to do and vocation apprenticeships

many more of. Katie? I think for me, I our state school system is broken.

many more of. Katie? I think for me, There's a lot of parents working

schools, I know many of our panel such as Laurie enjoyed a private

school educationment for those home who've worked hard and gone to

private schools, who have excelled academically it is unfortunate that

this society a making a bias against private schoolchildren, against

private school students. We have targets for state schoolchildren or

actually to state school students. I think it's the wrong way to go.

actually to state school students. I can't stick a plaster on this thing.

You can't go to the funeral casket of a patient and start trying to

mend that patient and help them of a patient and start trying to

better. This is about state school systems failing children. You can't

then set targets at university level that set a bias against the private

school system that so many people are working dreadfully hard to keep

their children in. You genuinely believe there's a bias against

private schoolchildren? Absolutely. LAUGHTER Private schoolchildren

private schoolchildren? Absolutely. coming out with exceptional results

and universities are supposed to be centres of academic ex-lengths.

and universities are supposed to be that standard the same. Make it

and universities are supposed to be that's the fairway of getting it

sorted. Only 7% of children in this country are privately educated. If

maintain the levels of private schoolchildren and their kind of

privilege, you are condemning a schoolchildren and their kind of

backgrounds to a life of poverty and to no education. I think that's

APPLAUSE Gentleman in the front to no education. I think that's

I'm a student from Bangladesh. For a to no education. I think that's

Cambridge University and the tuition fee was £22,000. It is huge. I know

some of my friends, they are really fee was £22,000. It is huge. I know

high tuition fees they didn't ever fee was £22,000. It is huge. I know

universities. So you are worried we might ng losing people not going to

the best institutions? OK. Do you might ng losing people not going to

academic qualification, the degree, is did devalued? I know Julian

mentioned the apprentices, do the other members of the panel think

that's a worthwhile substitute to reduce the value of the degree being

devalued? We'll come back to that. We are live. You can talk to us

devalued? We'll come back to that. We are on Facebook, Twitter and

devalued? We'll come back to that. matters. Gary's on a course at

university and says he cannot afford to pay the tuition fees. I've been

cut out of Hyder education. Opposing view and controversially from Katie,

the amount of money poor people view and controversially from Katie,

thrown at them at uni is ridiculous. You don't pay the tuition fees until

you've graduated. I didn't write that. I have no phone. Yeah! Laurie?

Katie got right in there with an attempted dig saying I went to a

private school. I've witnessed from handholding, amount of pressure

there is on students who may or handholding, amount of pressure

not be bright enough to get into the best universities, cramming them

through this system, giving them every help to get these good grades.

Anybody who has taken one recently, and that's probably most of the

audience, can tell you that exams only measure one thing, how good you

are at exams pt not measure of aptitude or how you are going to do

are at exams pt not measure of at university. Having then gone

are at exams pt not measure of private school to Oxford to an elite

university I witnessed first hand how many real posh idiots ended

university I witnessed first hand there and did Coke in the union

barrier to meritocracy, to social bathrooms... Which is illegal! From

barrier to meritocracy, to social mobility this country has. Yes many

barrier to meritocracy, to social parents do work hard to send their

barrier to meritocracy, to social kids to university, but if you are

barrier to meritocracy, to social no opportunity to send your kids to

a private school, so you are as no opportunity to send your kids to

young lady said condemning millions of young people to never having

young lady said condemning millions the education system we want in

young lady said condemning millions APPLAUSE Oliver? I'm not sure if I'm

the only statecated kid on this panel. I was rejected from all six

universities I applied to first panel. I was rejected from all six

discriminated against or for. It's a lottery is our state schools don't

allow people to aspire well enough. I think our state education system,

one size fits all system, built under Labour, failed millions of

kids in our generation. I'm proud outrage proportionate to that,

saying let's raise the standards of state schools rather than reducing

theed? Our universities. We see state schools rather than reducing

attitude among a lot of teachers in state schools that apparently their

best kids can't go to university. A Sutton Trust poll sew showed that

only 7 periods of state school pupils knew that half of people

only 7 periods of state school educated. Most of the teachers said

they wouldn't encourage their best Clamping down on aspiration is a

crime. I'm prouded that cation is addressing that now. There was a

programme called Aim Higher, said up we are addressing that now. There

was a programme called Aim Higher, said up to -- set up to encourage

was a programme called Aim Higher, to apply to very good universities,

from the Russell Group. One of the first things that the Conservative

Party did in office was cut that programme. How can you say this

Party did in office was cut that Government is aspiring young people

to aspire. This is non-innocence. I where students from state schools

living is rising. NUS published where students from state schools

per year. The student loan doesn't cover it. We saw figures say that

86% of people from private schools applied to higher education and

86% of people from private schools of students with free school meals

apply. It needs to to be dealt. of students with free school meals

student loan book and the potential privatisation of a student loan

book, which is incredibly dangerous. There is no protection for students.

If it is privatised students can be charged massive interest rates on it

and it is awful. Something needs to APPLAUSE Where's Sophie? Do you

think that the universities system is elitist? I don't always think

it's elitist enough. I don't think it should have anything to do with

class, before Katie thinks I'm going to be agreeing with, before Katie

thinks I'm going to be agreeing to be agreeing with, before Katie

this one -- with her on this one. I think so much people are pushed

this one -- with her on this one. I applying for university because

this one -- with her on this one. I records. I think that a lot of young

people are applying at the moment because it is the cheapest way for a

young person to leave home. Because of, that I think there is a lot

young person to leave home. Because people at university that aren't as

committed to the course as others, because they are not paying enough

attention. I think the best way around that is to support taking the

apprenticeships. Gentleman at the blaming the private schools for

being too good. Why not concentrate on helping state schools get better?

being too good. Why not concentrate I'm blaming them for being too

expensive so people from the lowest APPLAUSE Let's make it so that

country. If you look at the academy backgrounds can go to the best free

country. If you look at the academy in Norfolk, having turned their

school around from one of the worst though, because from a long time

school around from one of the worst Bristol University was boycotted

school around from one of the worst because it had a bias against the

private sector. The wrong thing because it had a bias against the

being penalised here. Private sector is doing education in the way that

everybody ought to do it. I think if you come out of somewhere and you've

excelled academically you have a right to a University place and

excelled academically you have a shouldn't be based on contextual

data. On how much money your parents have? You should know sweetie pee. I

want to go back to making sure the schools are good enough. That's

want to go back to making sure the You can do fantastic outreach, and

Flick is right, just to be slightly parochial, here in occasions the

state schools get the least per pupil of anywhere in the entire

country. £600 per pupil per year less, £250,000 for any primary

school. That's hitting education here. That's widening the space

because the schools don't have properly. That has to change. It's

been underfunded for decades. No Government's ever fixed it before.

In parts of Cambridgeshire where deprivation children aren't getting

the education they need when they are 7, 8 or 15. That simply cannot

continue. A lot to be said on this topic. You the talk to us now on

Twitter, Facebook and BBC Online. Picking up on your point Laurie

about the bank of mum and dad: are returning to the questions you

Legalisation or decriminalisation of are returning to the questions you

drugs emerged as a big topic. When are returning to the questions you

can be harmful. I don't want us are returning to the questions you

drugs. Let's have proper education legalise drugs or decriminalise

drugs. Let's have proper education about drugs in schools so that

people understand the dangers of drugs. Let's have early intervention

when people are going off the rails through drug use, and let's have

proper drug treatment. I don't think we are winning the drugs war. It is

frustrating that my Conservative coalition partners aren't prepared

imaginatively. We've got senior police officers saying that the

imaginatively. We've got senior on drugs is failing, that we should

treat drug addiction as much as on drugs is failing, that we should

health issue as a criminal justice one. All these things we need to

look at. I don't think that waving a magic wand and making it legal is

necessarily the right option. I decriminalisation or legalisation.

The answer lies in better education, Another sound problem there. Again I

apologise. Decriminalising means a drug user wouldn't be prosecuted for

regulation of the sales of drugs. Surely decriminal sizing drugs risks

facilitating distribution and access and increasing the number of addicts

that will need help. Laurie, do and increasing the number of addicts

think it would increase the number Portugal where decriminalisation was

tried, there hasn't been a number p? In Portugal where decriminalisation

was tried, there hasn't been a number of -- a drop in the number of

people, but there's been a massive decriminalisation is one of changing

the conversation around drugs from being an issue of criminal justice

available to treat addicts and treat people who've problems with drugs,

as they deserve to be treated with compassion, rather than simply

criminalising them and throwing people in jail at enormous public

the world. As you heard, most MPs cost, we would go some way towards

the world. As you heard, most MPs agree that the war on drugs has

the world. As you heard, most MPs lost. Most scientists agree that the

the world. As you heard, most MPs working. I think 77% of MPs thought

the world. As you heard, most MPs that the current drug policy was not

working but only 30% would support decriminalisation of small amounts

perhaps an old bag, would really can put in place age restrictions

but then you will just see another black market coming in to fill that

gap. 22% now of tobacco is sold black market coming in to fill that

the black market. You would see something coming into fill that

void. You talk about the fact that costs such a lot of money, that

void. You talk about the fact that is not decriminalised at the moment,

but it costs such a lot of money to treat addicts as well. It is a bad

message to be giving out. We need to reinforce the message that drugs

aren't the way to go. That is the message I give to my children.

Where's Michael, what's your story? I'm a representative for a political

party called Cannabis Law Reform in the UK. We are aiming to legalise

cannabis so we can regulate the market. We can keep cannabis away

from children by regulating are market. We can keep cannabis away

The only form of identification market. We can keep cannabis away

a dealer ever requires a £20. I think it is unacceptable for Katie

to claim that she would like to think it is unacceptable for Katie

drugs de... Um, staying... Illegal. Illegal and not regulated. That

drugs de... Um, staying... Illegal. really the worst possible situation

you can ever put your children in. that treating drug addicts Costas

lot of money. What would make us a lot of money was if we legalised

them, sold them in a regulated way, some of the drugs and then taxed

them, sold them in a regulated way, from taxing those drugs. That would

raise a great deal of money in the way it does with tobacco taxation

criminal enterprises that exist and it would also eliminate entirely

criminal enterprises that exist possibility for a black market on

absurd. Laurie said no politician is decriminalise. I've said it many

times, that we should decriminalise importantly we've just heard Nick

Clegg say it. That's significant. parliamentary Home Affairs Select

Committee where we spent a year looking at drugs policy. We went to

Colombia and Portugal. We published a detailed report and it pointed out

decriminalisation. In Portugal you don't have more addicts. You have

more people in treatment but I would streets. We published this fantastic

absurd. When the current laws were passed, in 1971, the idea was we

would stop people from using drugs. I'm not going to ask who has used an

illegal substance at some point I'm not going to ask who has used an

I bet there are some in this room who've done. The current approach

doesn't work but it forces things shockingly. Having substances where

you have no idea what it is because it has been cut with other things.

Zico-active subs tanses. We have no idea whether it is safe. All of

these things are dangerous. Heroin, cannabis, ecstasy is dangerous.

these things are dangerous. Heroin, so are alcohol and tobacco. To say

they are all bad, don't have them, that fails. I will stop there.

Oliver? I think Julian's report should have been paid more attention

to the at this time contained the Government is there to prevent harm.

There is no other purpose. First Government is there to prevent harm.

advantages of following Portugal, talking how we do that? If you look

their communities it is horrendous. talking how we do that? If you look

we can't even keeps drugs out of our we can't even keeps drugs out of our

prisoner cells, and I'm not their it we can't even keeps drugs out of our

is right to keep people in prison cells. People report fewer problems

in the decriminalised world. Police who opposed it at first, last year

said it is great, because they can target the organised st year said it

is great, because they can target organised gangs. You have to look at

the harms but we haven't reduced the harms now. We spend huge amounts of

money arresting people and locking them up in a random way. We have to

gentleman there. I think if you them up in a random way. We have to

decriminalisation of marijuana. them up in a random way. We have to

there most people don't smoke it on a regular basis. It is considered a

more ma exhur thing to do. You just go to a coffee shop every now and

again and have a joint if the same way that you have a pint in a pub in

this country. I would find that really comforting if a train driver

is the same as drinking alcohol before driving a train. You are

is the same as drinking alcohol allowed to do that. Exactly. For a

gentleman here. You can criminalise drugs as much as you like but it is

not going to stop people from doing them. If you decriminalise them

not going to stop people from doing something illegal. That's why a

not going to stop people from doing of people do it... Do you still

not going to stop people from doing of it. They can't stand the thought

a mum. There was a survey done in the Sun which has changed its tune

on that. They've found that middle the Sun which has changed its tune

on that. They've found that middle aged women, they didn't ask if they

children or their children's friends aged women, they didn't ask if they

didn't dcht it can last for the aged women, they didn't ask if they

of your life, that sanction. The law say you can't, every time. Would

there not be a way of reducing the persecution on the drawing taker so

the addict received help rather persecution on the drawing taker so

prosecution but continuing the prosecution on the people who teal

the drugs and the people who produce them, so you are still, it's so

criminal but you are providing help rather than punishment to those

criminal but you are providing help need the help? That's exactly the

Portuguese model but they focus need the help? That's exactly the

the high-level deal terse. They need the help? That's exactly the

a criminal sanction on international gangs, the cartels and that sort of

thing, but users, it is entirely noncriminal. It is all focused on

helping people to quit if they are addicts and help with the treatment

How many more times are we going to hear the word Portugal. It is an

Oliver, are you have won this but overall Junian's won the Power Bar

you very much. It is a great thing to have you here. Thank you for

you very much. It is a great thing support. We've had some definite

disagreements but thank you for being in Cambridge. Stay engaged

with politics. Get involved, talk to your MP or candidate. If you are in

you like. Thank you Julian. That your MP or candidate. If you are in

on November 20th for a special Free hearing more from the leaders of our

on November 20th for a special Free we leave you with Amy and her higher

on November 20th for a special Free How many studentsed full financial