Zero Hours Contracts Free Speech


Zero Hours Contracts

'Are zero hours contracts fair?' asks the live debate show. Presenter Rick Edwards chairs proceedings from Cambridge, with a live audience of 150 people aged 16-25.


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This is Free Speech. Tonight zero hours contracts and earn or learn.

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education, is it still too hard hours contracts and earn or learn.

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go to uni? Have your say on the stories that matter to you live

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go to uni? Have your say on the BBC Three. If you are on a zero

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hours contract you only get two hours a week, it is pointless.

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young people are that. Teenagers are I'm Rick Edwards and there is a

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young people are that. Teenagers are to talk about tonight. Exclusive

:01:00.:01:01.

interviews with Ed Miliband and to talk about tonight. Exclusive

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Clegg, and their answers to your questions. Stay with me for Free

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Speech, live from the Guildhall questions. Stay with me for Free

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CHEERING They are here to tell us what they think and we want to hear

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Daheley. Good evening to you. I what they think and we want to hear

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One really easy way to get your voice heard is via the Power Bar. I

:01:26.:01:46.

responds in real-time to what you think of the panel's point of view.

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And it operates via Twitter. Use #yes or #no followed by the first

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name of a panellist each time you agree or disagree with them. And

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here is our panel whose job is to tell us who they are and why they

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are here. Katie? I'm Katie Hopkins, I'm a businesswoman and broadcaster

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and I'm here for all the people I'm a businesswoman and broadcaster

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are fed up with things that are politically correct. I'm Julian

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Huppert, I'm a Member of Parliament for Cambridge. I'm passionate about

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free speech and I'm pleads it is coming to Cambridge, capital of

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free speech and I'm pleads it is speech. I'm Laurie Penny and I'm a

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Conservative Party and we have speech. I'm Laurie Penny and I'm a

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Conservative Party and we have you wanted to put to our political

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a big topic. More than 1 million you wanted to put to our political

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Nick Clegg have to say about them? under 25 you are twice as likely to

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Nick Clegg have to say about them? I think that many people are right

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to be concerned about zero hours contracts. In my office recently he

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to be concerned about zero hours a care workers from Newcastle who

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told me his story. He said to me, I can't build my life around around a

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zero hours contract because I don't know from one week to another how

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many hours I will be doing and how much wages we would be getting.

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We'll ban certain types of zero hours contracts. They can exploit

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some employees. They might work hours contracts. They can exploit

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some people, but for instance in situations where you have a zero

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whether that employer will need situations where you have a zero

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and you prevented from looking for other forms of employment, that

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and you prevented from looking for think might be really unfair. We are

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contracts, because we think Britain can do better than the kind of

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insecurity that many zero hours contracts offer to people. So we are

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reviewing it very carefully and we'll come forward with measures to

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make sure that zero hours contract hours offer flexibility where people

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need and want that but not in a hours offer flexibility where people

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Apologises for that slight sound problem with Ed Miliband. What would

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you like to ask? How can people support themselves on zero hours

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contracts? Let's start with you Katie. Don't hold back. I think

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contracts? Let's start with you many people actually zero hours

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contracts? Let's start with you really well and a great deal of

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nurses that work for nursing banks, 89% say they are brilliant, because

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they allow them theflect to look after their families to adapt their

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they allow them theflect to look work around their needs as a family

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and unit and allows them to work out how many hours they would like to do

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businesses out there really need. If how many hours they would like to do

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you classify your employees as redundancy pay. From my personal

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you classify your employees as that's paid maternity pay I think

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Would you agree with any of that? I hours contracts are fantastic for

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employers, but I'm not sure we should be concentrating our efforts

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on what's great for employers. This recovery is focused on handing money

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back to the rich at the expense recovery is focused on handing money

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the poor. Zero hours contracts are exploitative. They are devastating

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for individual people trying to exploitative. They are devastating

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their lives. When you talk about flexibility it is flexible for

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people who are employing but people who are working they have no choice.

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They are not allowed to choose when they come into work and when they

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don't. They are waiting for their employer to call or not, while their

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basic rights are taken away. It employer to call or not, while their

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outrageous and shouldn't be allowed. APPLAUSE Who agrees with Laurie

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outrageous and shouldn't be allowed. who agrees with Katie? No-one agrees

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with anyone? I agree that zero hours especially for me as a student.

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with anyone? I agree that zero hours means I haveflect if I have loads of

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work on at uni I can ring up and say I'm I can't work this week. You

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work on at uni I can ring up and say an interview with a proof employer

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and at the end interview you know what you are signing. If you need

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hours that you are relying on for income, don't sign for a zero hours

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fantastic people like that who recognise an opportunity when they

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see one and happens to agree with fantastic relationship with people

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like yourselves. She said being fantastic relationship with people

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time with what the girl said, so what about when you finish uni and

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money at the end of the day. That's what not? You need to get a bit

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money at the end of the day. That's not a bit of money at the end of the

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day. That's not going to - zaoer contracted hours, if you are not at

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uni or what not, you want to be flexible with money. That's not

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team Katie there. My company pays part-time thing, so... OK. If you

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team Katie there. My company pays they are probably talking about

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team Katie there. My company pays pay, maybe getting paid for overtime

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too. Julian? There are clearly some cases where people want to work

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too. Julian? There are clearly some hours contracts and it does work.

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That's fine. But they are also been thousands of people trying to make a

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living to earn the cash to get through the work. If you have no

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idea how much work you will have, that's hard. People are locked in to

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particular employers but may get no hours. People are being punished,

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they will get fewer hours next week. It is really hard. I suspect a lot

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of people don't get the national minimum wage when they are on it. We

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have to massively clamp down on minimum wage when they are on it. We

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exploitative ones so that people can have the opportunity for security. I

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don't see maternity pay and sick pay as luxuries that we can scrap. It is

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really important... But you've never paid them. You've never been a small

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business employer. People have to get on with their lives. You've

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never paid them. I think they are fantastic things and I'm delighted

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that we are in a situation where we can look after people who are sick

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and pregnant. Until you've paid them, you can't really speech. I

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APPLAUSE Katie thinks you shouldn't speak but I'm going to let you. A

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pertinent point about the need for jobs after University. If we hadn't

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created 1 million jobs this the jobs after University. If we hadn't

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few years, for every one job created under zero hours contracts we've had

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11 jobs being created in that time. So we have theflect coming in, so

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people that are students, as we kids, people who need to be able to

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have flebl hours, they can have kids, people who need to be able to

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and everyone can progress on to kids, people who need to be able to

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afterwards. A really important job cks point, do you have the right as

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an employee on zero hours contracts to turn down the hours that your

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employer has offered you. It offers flect to the employer and employee.

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It is win, win and to try to make flect to the employer and employee.

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that legal, as o the employer and flect to the employer and employee.

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be offered hours the next week. I Party are, it will put thousands of

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be offered hours the next week. I seriously discussing whether it

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should be permissible to take away maternity pay and sickness benefits

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for hundreds of thousands of people. many people in this country rely on

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employers don't like to pay them. That's why they are written into

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law. If employers didn't have to pay their workers anything I'm sure

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law. If employers didn't have to pay working people have always had to

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APPLAUSE Small business employers... Small business employers are the

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enengine house of this economy. That's what we are told. They are

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the ones that are generating jobs, the ones that will give you guys

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jobs and the ones that need to be defended from this type of liberal

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thinking. We've heard from all of judgment time for the panel. Let's

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Where's Alex? Are you for or against zero hours contracts? I'm extremely

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against zero hours contracts. I zero hours contracts? I'm extremely

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a zero hours contract at the moment, but I think it is just the tip of

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the iceberg. It's about eroding but I think it is just the tip of

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rights as young people in and out of work. As well as working a zero

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hours contract, I also was self employed door-to-door. Because

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hours contract, I also was self self employed I wasn't eligible

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hours contract, I also was self minimum wage, sick pay, holiday

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hours contract, I also was self tuition fees, David Cameron saying

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hours contract, I also was self sort of picture that these people

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be treated like come out of work or for another pointless war that David

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be treated like come out of work or Cameron seems so willing to start

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again. It is not good enough to Cameron seems so willing to start

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expect young people to take such piecemeal offers while the rest

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expect young people to take such society gets so much more than we

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do, just because we are young and because we want a flebl lifestyle.

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Of society gets so much more than we do, just because we are young and

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because we want a flebl lifestyle. It's -- a flexible lifestyle. It is

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APPLAUSE Due feel like a slave? No, I've worked a zero hours contract

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and feel if anything I have a better relationship with my employer,

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because ky say, is I can't work relationship with my employer,

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weekend, and they say, can you work this? And I say, yes I can. I'm

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weekend, and they say, can you work uni, so it is perfect. I can go

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home, do my work and concentrate on my degree. All I can say, I disagree

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with Katie and I agree with this employer shows their employee I

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with Katie and I agree with this they show it back to them. If they

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are not going to give them the hours, I hope they won't put in

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are not going to give them the work. I hope the business loses

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money because he doesn't earn money. I don't know if you have ever had

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the stress of not getting sick pay, but if you have a contract where you

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don't get it and you are ill and you have to force yourself to go back to

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you are not well enough to do your job and you are not going pay.

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LAUGHTER Secondly... But you would if you got ill. People who work

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LAUGHTER Secondly... But you would themselves, small business owners,

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have a third of the sick days that have to get out there and earn and

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have a third of the sick days that we can't be lounging around in bed

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complaini about a little bit of we can't be lounging around in bed

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flu. I'm an a zero hours contract holiday pay and sick pay. I think a

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at quiet times of the year. It is lot of employers wouldn't be able to

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at quiet times of the year. It is can be good for some people but

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at quiet times of the year. It is everyone, so they are not being

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at quiet times of the year. It is APPLAUSE Loads of messages coming

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We've been talking about small businesses but big businesses use

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them too. If you want your point of view read out you have got to make

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earning or learning. The Prime Minister says that a Conservative

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Government after 2015 will axe housing benefit and jobseeker's

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allowance for under 25s if they don't take their chance to earn

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allowance for under 25s if they learn. Cue Mr Cameron. Go to school,

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apprenticeship, get a job, but just choose the dole? We've got to offer

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learning. Amy has a question for us. How can the Government completely

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justify cutting all benefits for young people? I need to do something

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Oliver? Oliver? I think what we Twitter right now, so join in and

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Oliver? Oliver? I think what we heard from David Cameron is we have

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to give people an alternative that's better than that. It is not about

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cutting the cords and letting people fall but giving a real offer to

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people in terms of better education, better training on the job and

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actually get back into work under large number of workless households

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actually get back into work under better than benefits I'm not sure

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how you can oppose the idea of people earning or learning. There

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are 1 million young people out of work and you've cut EMA, tripled

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tuition fees. We've got the biggest crisis in youth unemployment in

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living memory. You can't say that the future is bright for young

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people in employment right now. What we have seen a applications to

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universities increase over the past three or four years, number of

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increase. David Cameron said we three or four years, number of

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to off people a better alternative. That's what it is about. It is not

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about having a stick and hitting young people. That would be absurd

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and we would oppose that. It's the review by Jeremy Heywood, who used

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addressing the real problems that keep people out of employment.

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Julian, do you think Mr Cameron keep people out of employment.

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offing a better of to young people? The Government is not doing this. We

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in the Lib Dems have said to the Tories no, you can't do it. We've

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said no to their plans to scrap least until them and hopefully

:19:04.:19:10.

forever. I've taken the manager least until them and hopefully

:19:10.:19:16.

the YMCA to see Iain Duncan Smith why you can't say to people in a

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YMCA, go home and stay with your loving, stable family. I wish they

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say that we want to see young people absolutely right but ping punishing

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people who cannot find a job, people applications out. If you take money

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out you are not going to send even have to help people into employment.

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apprentices, with the fantastic Cambridge regional college nearby

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Punishing them is an absurd idea. learn. That's the right thing to

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Punishing them is an absurd idea. Hopefully it won't ever happen. It

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is the right ambition but gone about the wrong way. What's the social

:20:13.:20:17.

media response? Fiona has agreed with you. Stopping benefits for

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media response? Fiona has agreed to 24-year-old will do nothing to

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tackle unemployment but will simply cause misery, poverty, homelessness

:20:25.:20:28.

and ill health for millions of unemployment? If the Government

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stopped cutting jobs and created basically you don't become a citizen

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until you are 25. Housing benefits claimed by thousands of people who

:20:40.:20:44.

work, so you are saying people in towards other people's benefits

:20:44.:20:49.

work, so you are saying people in not be entitled to them themselves.

:20:49.:20:50.

An interesting point. Katie? It not be entitled to them themselves.

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time we started being fair to people who paid money out for people to

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claim welfare. It is time we started focusing on the hard-working people

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in this country. If it was me I would hand out jobseeker's allowance

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between the hours of 6.00am and would hand out jobseeker's allowance

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6.00pm and up 18 flights of stairs. People assume welfare is the right

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way to go. We want people to work harder, fight harder and... There's

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a lot of people at home... ALL TALK AT People are sick of people paying

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out for others and they don't draw the occur Tehrans and look for work.

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You can huff and puff as much as you like. I'm sure the people out of

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work right now would love to be hundreds of thousands of people

:21:50.:21:54.

work right now would love to be unable to get a job. They are unable

:21:54.:21:55.

to find stable employment. Many unable to get a job. They are unable

:21:55.:21:58.

them are on zero hours contracts that you mentioned you a would love

:21:58.:22:08.

rest you need to live. Many of those young people can't just run home to

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rest you need to live. Many of those poor young people, teenage runaways,

:22:19.:22:23.

year and the Government need to for years the Government's been

:22:23.:22:29.

year and the Government need to taking away benefits, vital services

:22:29.:22:32.

and education for young people it is great that the Liberal Democrats

:22:32.:22:37.

the rights of young people but where tripling tuition fees, when they

:22:37.:22:44.

were taking away EMA. Do you want an opposed fees, I voted against the

:22:44.:22:57.

completely the wrong thing to do. It introduced them in the first place.

:22:57.:23:01.

On EMA I fought hard. There was introduced them in the first place.

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special thing so that the most vulnerable people, care givers.

:23:09.:23:12.

special thing so that the most don't like the fact that there's

:23:12.:23:14.

less money after all but I'm pleased that the most desperate get more

:23:14.:23:20.

money than they did under EMA. Amy, you posed the question, what do

:23:20.:23:31.

money than they did under EMA. Amy, can't go home to mummy and daddy.

:23:31.:23:33.

For the last nine months I've been working with young people who are

:23:34.:23:38.

homeless, people with mental health issues, it was originally a six

:23:38.:23:42.

month contract. Council extended it for another three months and then it

:23:42.:23:45.

ended and there was no money left. Now I work six hours a month and I'm

:23:45.:23:49.

doing everything I can every day to find another job but I haven't got

:23:49.:23:54.

one yet. I can't go running home to mummy and daddy, so I'm going to

:23:54.:23:59.

have to sleep on a park bench if APPLAUSE Under the help to work

:23:59.:24:13.

scheme there's three simple criteria that will allow tow continue to

:24:13.:24:17.

claim benefits. Turning the up to the Jobcentre to sign on every day.

:24:17.:24:28.

which I think is a positive thing. I committed a crime I thought they

:24:28.:24:34.

which I think is a positive thing. I were the ones that picked up litter.

:24:34.:25:02.

which I think is a positive thing. I work you should be paid. We have a

:25:02.:25:07.

minimum wage, so if you are... Excuse me, can I make my point?

:25:07.:25:11.

You've made a lot of points tonight, most of them I think are environment

:25:12.:25:15.

a really important point, when you work you should be paid. We have a

:25:16.:25:18.

minimum wage. If you are forced work you should be paid. We have a

:25:18.:25:25.

work 40 hour weeks. You have got the wrong attitude, Sir. This is a

:25:25.:25:29.

disgusting attack on the welfare state. We have welfare for all

:25:29.:25:34.

working class people. Katie, can you stop and allow people po speak. We

:25:34.:25:42.

have welfare for working class people. People create the wealth.

:25:42.:25:44.

Why are they attacked. The PCS, people. People create the wealth.

:25:44.:25:52.

trade union of the workers who run the Jobcentres say that the scheme

:25:52.:25:57.

is unworkable. Workers are having run the scheme. Not only is it a

:25:57.:26:01.

horrible attack on young people run the scheme. Not only is it a

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APPLAUSE You Sir. I think everyone is making it sound like there's

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APPLAUSE You Sir. I think everyone Cambridge one month and have been

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offered three jobs already and I've taken one of them. I think it is

:26:19.:26:24.

disgusting that people are paying more money than my family do. They

:26:24.:26:25.

are sitting at home an benefits more money than my family do. They

:26:25.:26:30.

are getting more than us. Good man. Good for you. Katie, I don't doubt

:26:30.:26:38.

you haven't worked hard in the past. You must have worked hard in the

:26:38.:26:48.

forgotten how it feels to suffer and you haven't born in mind it is so

:26:48.:26:51.

much harder nowadays. You don't you haven't born in mind it is so

:26:51.:26:55.

how it feels. This is why we are against you and we are with the

:26:55.:26:59.

Is there something wrong with the Power Bar? It is definitely working.

:26:59.:28:08.

Use #yes or #no followed by their first name. Make your voice heard on

:28:08.:28:13.

Free Speech. Tweet the Power Bar. Cambridge it is freshers week. Have

:28:13.:28:22.

you signed up for pottery club and stuff? Good. More than 400,000

:28:22.:28:28.

education this autumn, more than ever before. High demand but is

:28:28.:28:30.

Here's what people in Cambridge ever before. High demand but is

:28:30.:28:50.

I think access to higher education is extremely unequal. I think if you

:28:50.:28:56.

I am a medical student at Cambridge, background. With motivation, hard

:28:57.:29:18.

work and support I think everyone can get into the best universities

:29:18.:29:31.

about £4,000 a year in burst ris and I got a lot of financial help.

:29:31.:29:55.

about £4,000 a year in burst ris and I'm from a hostel and I'm in my

:29:55.:29:58.

first year of college and I have a very long way to go to get to umplt

:29:58.:30:02.

I'm extremely determined to get And Nick has a question for the

:30:02.:30:10.

panel. Is access to higher education still too elitist? Is access to

:30:10.:30:16.

panel. Is access to higher education education still too elitist? Jewel

:30:16.:30:20.

yarntion you are the tist? Is access to hire education still too elitist?

:30:20.:30:23.

Jewel yarntion you are the MP for Cambridge -- jewel yarntion you

:30:23.:30:25.

Jewel yarntion you are the MP for the MP for Cambridge. There's a

:30:25.:30:26.

still huge problem. We are not getting a fair balance of people in.

:30:26.:30:31.

Since fees have changed, which I don't like, we've seen an increase

:30:31.:30:36.

disadvantaged backgrounds coming in. Part of the problem is not all

:30:36.:30:38.

schools are equally good. There Part of the problem is not all

:30:38.:30:41.

huge problem that in disadvantaged areas we have worse schools. That is

:30:42.:30:47.

not OK. We can't fail people at primary and secondary school and say

:30:47.:30:49.

the universities can fix it. We primary and secondary school and say

:30:49.:30:58.

to put more money into schools for backgrounds, it is called the pupil

:30:58.:31:04.

premium. We need a level playing field so by the time people are

:31:04.:31:07.

premium. We need a level playing they have had a fair opportunity and

:31:07.:31:07.

had the chance. We have to make they have had a fair opportunity and

:31:07.:31:10.

the universities are fair. Cambridge has three fantastic universities. It

:31:10.:31:12.

is great to see at least two of has three fantastic universities. It

:31:12.:31:17.

represented here. I know from having done admissions interviews we try

:31:17.:31:22.

really hard to get it right. But it is frustrating when you have people

:31:22.:31:25.

who've been let down by the system before that. There is a long, long

:31:25.:31:29.

way to go to get the right people in. It is not all about higher

:31:29.:31:34.

education. It has annoyed me for years, in this country we've talked

:31:34.:31:38.

about university and the good thing to do and vocation apprenticeships

:31:38.:31:42.

pleased we are trying to encourage to do and vocation apprenticeships

:31:42.:31:57.

I don't know if there's apprentices to do and vocation apprenticeships

:31:57.:31:59.

in the radio. I have one working to do and vocation apprenticeships

:31:59.:32:03.

a lot. It is something I want to see to do and vocation apprenticeships

:32:03.:32:08.

many more of. Katie? I think for me, I our state school system is broken.

:32:08.:32:12.

many more of. Katie? I think for me, There's a lot of parents working

:32:12.:32:18.

schools, I know many of our panel such as Laurie enjoyed a private

:32:18.:32:24.

school educationment for those home who've worked hard and gone to

:32:24.:32:29.

private schools, who have excelled academically it is unfortunate that

:32:29.:32:34.

this society a making a bias against private schoolchildren, against

:32:34.:32:38.

private school students. We have targets for state schoolchildren or

:32:38.:32:46.

actually to state school students. I think it's the wrong way to go.

:32:46.:32:50.

actually to state school students. I can't stick a plaster on this thing.

:32:50.:32:52.

You can't go to the funeral casket of a patient and start trying to

:32:52.:32:54.

mend that patient and help them of a patient and start trying to

:32:54.:32:58.

better. This is about state school systems failing children. You can't

:32:58.:33:02.

then set targets at university level that set a bias against the private

:33:02.:33:06.

school system that so many people are working dreadfully hard to keep

:33:06.:33:11.

their children in. You genuinely believe there's a bias against

:33:11.:33:16.

private schoolchildren? Absolutely. LAUGHTER Private schoolchildren

:33:16.:33:18.

private schoolchildren? Absolutely. coming out with exceptional results

:33:18.:33:21.

and universities are supposed to be centres of academic ex-lengths.

:33:22.:33:25.

and universities are supposed to be that standard the same. Make it

:33:25.:33:32.

and universities are supposed to be that's the fairway of getting it

:33:32.:33:35.

sorted. Only 7% of children in this country are privately educated. If

:33:35.:33:43.

maintain the levels of private schoolchildren and their kind of

:33:43.:33:45.

privilege, you are condemning a schoolchildren and their kind of

:33:45.:33:50.

backgrounds to a life of poverty and to no education. I think that's

:33:50.:33:52.

APPLAUSE Gentleman in the front to no education. I think that's

:33:52.:34:02.

I'm a student from Bangladesh. For a to no education. I think that's

:34:02.:34:09.

Cambridge University and the tuition fee was £22,000. It is huge. I know

:34:10.:34:13.

some of my friends, they are really fee was £22,000. It is huge. I know

:34:13.:34:19.

high tuition fees they didn't ever fee was £22,000. It is huge. I know

:34:19.:34:46.

universities. So you are worried we might ng losing people not going to

:34:46.:34:49.

the best institutions? OK. Do you might ng losing people not going to

:34:49.:34:59.

academic qualification, the degree, is did devalued? I know Julian

:35:00.:35:05.

mentioned the apprentices, do the other members of the panel think

:35:05.:35:09.

that's a worthwhile substitute to reduce the value of the degree being

:35:09.:35:15.

devalued? We'll come back to that. We are live. You can talk to us

:35:15.:35:20.

devalued? We'll come back to that. We are on Facebook, Twitter and

:35:20.:35:25.

devalued? We'll come back to that. matters. Gary's on a course at

:35:25.:35:26.

university and says he cannot afford to pay the tuition fees. I've been

:35:26.:35:32.

cut out of Hyder education. Opposing view and controversially from Katie,

:35:32.:35:34.

the amount of money poor people view and controversially from Katie,

:35:34.:35:39.

thrown at them at uni is ridiculous. You don't pay the tuition fees until

:35:39.:35:44.

you've graduated. I didn't write that. I have no phone. Yeah! Laurie?

:35:44.:35:52.

Katie got right in there with an attempted dig saying I went to a

:35:52.:35:56.

private school. I've witnessed from handholding, amount of pressure

:35:56.:35:59.

there is on students who may or handholding, amount of pressure

:35:59.:36:05.

not be bright enough to get into the best universities, cramming them

:36:05.:36:09.

through this system, giving them every help to get these good grades.

:36:09.:36:13.

Anybody who has taken one recently, and that's probably most of the

:36:13.:36:17.

audience, can tell you that exams only measure one thing, how good you

:36:17.:36:21.

are at exams pt not measure of aptitude or how you are going to do

:36:21.:36:27.

are at exams pt not measure of at university. Having then gone

:36:27.:36:30.

are at exams pt not measure of private school to Oxford to an elite

:36:30.:36:34.

university I witnessed first hand how many real posh idiots ended

:36:34.:36:43.

university I witnessed first hand there and did Coke in the union

:36:43.:36:46.

barrier to meritocracy, to social bathrooms... Which is illegal! From

:36:46.:36:57.

barrier to meritocracy, to social mobility this country has. Yes many

:36:57.:37:00.

barrier to meritocracy, to social parents do work hard to send their

:37:00.:37:02.

barrier to meritocracy, to social kids to university, but if you are

:37:02.:37:08.

barrier to meritocracy, to social no opportunity to send your kids to

:37:08.:37:09.

a private school, so you are as no opportunity to send your kids to

:37:09.:37:14.

young lady said condemning millions of young people to never having

:37:14.:37:18.

young lady said condemning millions the education system we want in

:37:18.:37:26.

young lady said condemning millions APPLAUSE Oliver? I'm not sure if I'm

:37:26.:37:29.

the only statecated kid on this panel. I was rejected from all six

:37:29.:37:32.

universities I applied to first panel. I was rejected from all six

:37:32.:37:38.

discriminated against or for. It's a lottery is our state schools don't

:37:38.:37:46.

allow people to aspire well enough. I think our state education system,

:37:46.:37:52.

one size fits all system, built under Labour, failed millions of

:37:52.:37:56.

kids in our generation. I'm proud outrage proportionate to that,

:37:56.:38:03.

saying let's raise the standards of state schools rather than reducing

:38:03.:38:05.

theed? Our universities. We see state schools rather than reducing

:38:05.:38:09.

attitude among a lot of teachers in state schools that apparently their

:38:10.:38:15.

best kids can't go to university. A Sutton Trust poll sew showed that

:38:15.:38:21.

only 7 periods of state school pupils knew that half of people

:38:21.:38:27.

only 7 periods of state school educated. Most of the teachers said

:38:27.:38:31.

they wouldn't encourage their best Clamping down on aspiration is a

:38:31.:38:38.

crime. I'm prouded that cation is addressing that now. There was a

:38:38.:38:46.

programme called Aim Higher, said up we are addressing that now. There

:38:46.:38:48.

was a programme called Aim Higher, said up to -- set up to encourage

:38:48.:38:52.

was a programme called Aim Higher, to apply to very good universities,

:38:52.:38:54.

from the Russell Group. One of the first things that the Conservative

:38:54.:38:57.

Party did in office was cut that programme. How can you say this

:38:57.:39:04.

Party did in office was cut that Government is aspiring young people

:39:04.:39:06.

to aspire. This is non-innocence. I where students from state schools

:39:07.:39:19.

living is rising. NUS published where students from state schools

:39:19.:39:43.

per year. The student loan doesn't cover it. We saw figures say that

:39:43.:39:48.

86% of people from private schools applied to higher education and

:39:48.:39:53.

86% of people from private schools of students with free school meals

:39:53.:39:53.

apply. It needs to to be dealt. of students with free school meals

:39:53.:39:58.

student loan book and the potential privatisation of a student loan

:39:59.:40:01.

book, which is incredibly dangerous. There is no protection for students.

:40:01.:40:05.

If it is privatised students can be charged massive interest rates on it

:40:05.:40:08.

and it is awful. Something needs to APPLAUSE Where's Sophie? Do you

:40:08.:40:16.

think that the universities system is elitist? I don't always think

:40:16.:40:21.

it's elitist enough. I don't think it should have anything to do with

:40:21.:40:26.

class, before Katie thinks I'm going to be agreeing with, before Katie

:40:26.:40:30.

thinks I'm going to be agreeing to be agreeing with, before Katie

:40:30.:40:33.

this one -- with her on this one. I think so much people are pushed

:40:33.:40:35.

this one -- with her on this one. I applying for university because

:40:35.:40:39.

this one -- with her on this one. I records. I think that a lot of young

:40:39.:40:42.

people are applying at the moment because it is the cheapest way for a

:40:42.:40:47.

young person to leave home. Because of, that I think there is a lot

:40:47.:40:51.

young person to leave home. Because people at university that aren't as

:40:51.:40:55.

committed to the course as others, because they are not paying enough

:40:55.:41:00.

attention. I think the best way around that is to support taking the

:41:00.:41:11.

apprenticeships. Gentleman at the blaming the private schools for

:41:11.:41:20.

being too good. Why not concentrate on helping state schools get better?

:41:20.:41:26.

being too good. Why not concentrate I'm blaming them for being too

:41:26.:41:28.

expensive so people from the lowest APPLAUSE Let's make it so that

:41:28.:41:38.

country. If you look at the academy backgrounds can go to the best free

:41:38.:41:45.

country. If you look at the academy in Norfolk, having turned their

:41:45.:41:47.

school around from one of the worst though, because from a long time

:41:47.:41:58.

school around from one of the worst Bristol University was boycotted

:41:58.:42:01.

school around from one of the worst because it had a bias against the

:42:01.:42:01.

private sector. The wrong thing because it had a bias against the

:42:01.:42:05.

being penalised here. Private sector is doing education in the way that

:42:05.:42:09.

everybody ought to do it. I think if you come out of somewhere and you've

:42:09.:42:13.

excelled academically you have a right to a University place and

:42:13.:42:18.

excelled academically you have a shouldn't be based on contextual

:42:18.:42:22.

data. On how much money your parents have? You should know sweetie pee. I

:42:22.:42:30.

want to go back to making sure the schools are good enough. That's

:42:30.:42:34.

want to go back to making sure the You can do fantastic outreach, and

:42:34.:42:37.

Flick is right, just to be slightly parochial, here in occasions the

:42:37.:42:41.

state schools get the least per pupil of anywhere in the entire

:42:41.:42:48.

country. £600 per pupil per year less, £250,000 for any primary

:42:48.:42:52.

school. That's hitting education here. That's widening the space

:42:52.:42:56.

because the schools don't have properly. That has to change. It's

:42:56.:43:02.

been underfunded for decades. No Government's ever fixed it before.

:43:02.:43:07.

In parts of Cambridgeshire where deprivation children aren't getting

:43:07.:43:12.

the education they need when they are 7, 8 or 15. That simply cannot

:43:12.:43:17.

continue. A lot to be said on this topic. You the talk to us now on

:43:17.:43:22.

Twitter, Facebook and BBC Online. Picking up on your point Laurie

:43:23.:43:24.

about the bank of mum and dad: are returning to the questions you

:43:24.:44:04.

Legalisation or decriminalisation of are returning to the questions you

:44:04.:44:12.

drugs emerged as a big topic. When are returning to the questions you

:44:12.:44:24.

can be harmful. I don't want us are returning to the questions you

:44:24.:44:29.

drugs. Let's have proper education legalise drugs or decriminalise

:44:29.:44:33.

drugs. Let's have proper education about drugs in schools so that

:44:33.:44:34.

people understand the dangers of drugs. Let's have early intervention

:44:34.:44:38.

when people are going off the rails through drug use, and let's have

:44:38.:44:43.

proper drug treatment. I don't think we are winning the drugs war. It is

:44:43.:44:47.

frustrating that my Conservative coalition partners aren't prepared

:44:47.:44:52.

imaginatively. We've got senior police officers saying that the

:44:52.:44:55.

imaginatively. We've got senior on drugs is failing, that we should

:44:55.:44:56.

treat drug addiction as much as on drugs is failing, that we should

:44:56.:44:59.

health issue as a criminal justice one. All these things we need to

:44:59.:45:05.

look at. I don't think that waving a magic wand and making it legal is

:45:05.:45:09.

necessarily the right option. I decriminalisation or legalisation.

:45:09.:45:16.

The answer lies in better education, Another sound problem there. Again I

:45:16.:45:22.

apologise. Decriminalising means a drug user wouldn't be prosecuted for

:45:22.:45:31.

regulation of the sales of drugs. Surely decriminal sizing drugs risks

:45:31.:45:37.

facilitating distribution and access and increasing the number of addicts

:45:37.:45:39.

that will need help. Laurie, do and increasing the number of addicts

:45:39.:45:45.

think it would increase the number Portugal where decriminalisation was

:45:45.:45:52.

tried, there hasn't been a number p? In Portugal where decriminalisation

:45:52.:45:54.

was tried, there hasn't been a number of -- a drop in the number of

:45:54.:45:57.

people, but there's been a massive decriminalisation is one of changing

:45:57.:46:02.

the conversation around drugs from being an issue of criminal justice

:46:02.:46:09.

available to treat addicts and treat people who've problems with drugs,

:46:09.:46:14.

as they deserve to be treated with compassion, rather than simply

:46:14.:46:17.

criminalising them and throwing people in jail at enormous public

:46:17.:46:23.

the world. As you heard, most MPs cost, we would go some way towards

:46:23.:46:32.

the world. As you heard, most MPs agree that the war on drugs has

:46:32.:46:34.

the world. As you heard, most MPs lost. Most scientists agree that the

:46:34.:46:49.

the world. As you heard, most MPs working. I think 77% of MPs thought

:46:49.:46:51.

the world. As you heard, most MPs that the current drug policy was not

:46:51.:46:55.

working but only 30% would support decriminalisation of small amounts

:46:55.:47:03.

perhaps an old bag, would really can put in place age restrictions

:47:03.:47:19.

but then you will just see another black market coming in to fill that

:47:19.:47:20.

gap. 22% now of tobacco is sold black market coming in to fill that

:47:20.:47:26.

the black market. You would see something coming into fill that

:47:26.:47:29.

void. You talk about the fact that costs such a lot of money, that

:47:29.:47:33.

void. You talk about the fact that is not decriminalised at the moment,

:47:33.:47:36.

but it costs such a lot of money to treat addicts as well. It is a bad

:47:36.:47:40.

message to be giving out. We need to reinforce the message that drugs

:47:40.:47:43.

aren't the way to go. That is the message I give to my children.

:47:43.:47:49.

Where's Michael, what's your story? I'm a representative for a political

:47:49.:47:53.

party called Cannabis Law Reform in the UK. We are aiming to legalise

:47:53.:47:58.

cannabis so we can regulate the market. We can keep cannabis away

:47:58.:48:00.

from children by regulating are market. We can keep cannabis away

:48:00.:48:03.

The only form of identification market. We can keep cannabis away

:48:03.:48:08.

a dealer ever requires a £20. I think it is unacceptable for Katie

:48:08.:48:11.

to claim that she would like to think it is unacceptable for Katie

:48:11.:48:20.

drugs de... Um, staying... Illegal. Illegal and not regulated. That

:48:20.:48:25.

drugs de... Um, staying... Illegal. really the worst possible situation

:48:25.:48:29.

you can ever put your children in. that treating drug addicts Costas

:48:29.:48:35.

lot of money. What would make us a lot of money was if we legalised

:48:35.:48:40.

them, sold them in a regulated way, some of the drugs and then taxed

:48:40.:48:45.

them, sold them in a regulated way, from taxing those drugs. That would

:48:45.:48:48.

raise a great deal of money in the way it does with tobacco taxation

:48:48.:48:51.

criminal enterprises that exist and it would also eliminate entirely

:48:51.:48:58.

criminal enterprises that exist possibility for a black market on

:48:58.:49:17.

absurd. Laurie said no politician is decriminalise. I've said it many

:49:17.:49:23.

times, that we should decriminalise importantly we've just heard Nick

:49:23.:49:30.

Clegg say it. That's significant. parliamentary Home Affairs Select

:49:30.:49:35.

Committee where we spent a year looking at drugs policy. We went to

:49:35.:49:41.

Colombia and Portugal. We published a detailed report and it pointed out

:49:41.:49:45.

decriminalisation. In Portugal you don't have more addicts. You have

:49:45.:49:50.

more people in treatment but I would streets. We published this fantastic

:49:50.:50:04.

absurd. When the current laws were passed, in 1971, the idea was we

:50:04.:50:09.

would stop people from using drugs. I'm not going to ask who has used an

:50:09.:50:12.

illegal substance at some point I'm not going to ask who has used an

:50:12.:50:16.

I bet there are some in this room who've done. The current approach

:50:16.:50:20.

doesn't work but it forces things shockingly. Having substances where

:50:20.:50:27.

you have no idea what it is because it has been cut with other things.

:50:28.:50:34.

Zico-active subs tanses. We have no idea whether it is safe. All of

:50:35.:50:42.

these things are dangerous. Heroin, cannabis, ecstasy is dangerous.

:50:42.:50:47.

these things are dangerous. Heroin, so are alcohol and tobacco. To say

:50:47.:50:51.

they are all bad, don't have them, that fails. I will stop there.

:50:51.:50:59.

Oliver? I think Julian's report should have been paid more attention

:50:59.:51:05.

to the at this time contained the Government is there to prevent harm.

:51:05.:51:11.

There is no other purpose. First Government is there to prevent harm.

:51:11.:51:26.

advantages of following Portugal, talking how we do that? If you look

:51:26.:51:30.

their communities it is horrendous. talking how we do that? If you look

:51:30.:51:40.

we can't even keeps drugs out of our we can't even keeps drugs out of our

:51:40.:51:46.

prisoner cells, and I'm not their it we can't even keeps drugs out of our

:51:46.:51:49.

is right to keep people in prison cells. People report fewer problems

:51:50.:51:54.

in the decriminalised world. Police who opposed it at first, last year

:51:54.:51:59.

said it is great, because they can target the organised st year said it

:51:59.:52:04.

is great, because they can target organised gangs. You have to look at

:52:04.:52:08.

the harms but we haven't reduced the harms now. We spend huge amounts of

:52:08.:52:13.

money arresting people and locking them up in a random way. We have to

:52:13.:52:16.

gentleman there. I think if you them up in a random way. We have to

:52:16.:52:27.

decriminalisation of marijuana. them up in a random way. We have to

:52:27.:52:30.

there most people don't smoke it on a regular basis. It is considered a

:52:30.:52:35.

more ma exhur thing to do. You just go to a coffee shop every now and

:52:35.:52:39.

again and have a joint if the same way that you have a pint in a pub in

:52:39.:52:46.

this country. I would find that really comforting if a train driver

:52:46.:52:52.

is the same as drinking alcohol before driving a train. You are

:52:52.:52:56.

is the same as drinking alcohol allowed to do that. Exactly. For a

:52:56.:53:05.

gentleman here. You can criminalise drugs as much as you like but it is

:53:05.:53:09.

not going to stop people from doing them. If you decriminalise them

:53:09.:53:15.

not going to stop people from doing something illegal. That's why a

:53:15.:53:18.

not going to stop people from doing of people do it... Do you still

:53:18.:53:30.

not going to stop people from doing of it. They can't stand the thought

:53:30.:53:37.

a mum. There was a survey done in the Sun which has changed its tune

:53:37.:53:39.

on that. They've found that middle the Sun which has changed its tune

:53:39.:53:44.

on that. They've found that middle aged women, they didn't ask if they

:53:44.:53:45.

children or their children's friends aged women, they didn't ask if they

:53:45.:54:06.

didn't dcht it can last for the aged women, they didn't ask if they

:54:06.:54:10.

of your life, that sanction. The law say you can't, every time. Would

:54:10.:54:18.

there not be a way of reducing the persecution on the drawing taker so

:54:18.:54:20.

the addict received help rather persecution on the drawing taker so

:54:20.:54:26.

prosecution but continuing the prosecution on the people who teal

:54:26.:54:30.

the drugs and the people who produce them, so you are still, it's so

:54:30.:54:35.

criminal but you are providing help rather than punishment to those

:54:35.:54:39.

criminal but you are providing help need the help? That's exactly the

:54:39.:54:39.

Portuguese model but they focus need the help? That's exactly the

:54:40.:54:42.

the high-level deal terse. They need the help? That's exactly the

:54:42.:54:44.

a criminal sanction on international gangs, the cartels and that sort of

:54:44.:54:50.

thing, but users, it is entirely noncriminal. It is all focused on

:54:50.:54:54.

helping people to quit if they are addicts and help with the treatment

:54:54.:55:00.

How many more times are we going to hear the word Portugal. It is an

:55:00.:55:05.

Oliver, are you have won this but overall Junian's won the Power Bar

:55:05.:55:50.

you very much. It is a great thing to have you here. Thank you for

:55:50.:55:54.

you very much. It is a great thing support. We've had some definite

:55:54.:55:56.

disagreements but thank you for being in Cambridge. Stay engaged

:55:56.:56:00.

with politics. Get involved, talk to your MP or candidate. If you are in

:56:00.:56:02.

you like. Thank you Julian. That your MP or candidate. If you are in

:56:02.:56:15.

on November 20th for a special Free hearing more from the leaders of our

:56:15.:56:28.

on November 20th for a special Free we leave you with Amy and her higher

:56:28.:56:35.

on November 20th for a special Free How many studentsed full financial

:56:35.:56:35.

'Are zero hours contracts fair?' asks the live debate show Free Speech. Many young people are on the contracts, which expect them to be available for work but will only pay them for the hours when they are needed. Some say they are not given enough hours every week to cover living costs, but some praise the flexibility of this way of working. The show comes from Cambridge, with both students and local workers in the audience. Presenter Rick Edwards chairs proceedings, with a live audience of 150 people aged 16-25. Tina Daheley (Radio 1 Newsbeat) gathers the Twitter, Facebook and website messages from viewers at home.


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