Browse content similar to 09/02/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello. Welcome to the programme. Coming up this week. Money, money, | :00:22. | :00:28. | |
money. Should we be pushing for tax raising powers or are we petter off | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
taking handouts? Could the Queen of shops bring colour back to our | :00:32. | :00:38. | |
politics as well as our high streets. And long to reign over us. | :00:38. | :00:44. | |
Why so Foo rally to the monarchist cause. | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
There's fundamental disagreement in Stormont on how to rescue our | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
economy. Sinn Fein say we'd be in a stronger position if we could raise | :00:52. | :00:58. | |
our own taxes. The Finance Minister says self-financing would endanger | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
our public services. Why is the DUP afraid of some financial | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
independence? We are not afraid of financial independence. We are | :01:05. | :01:11. | |
continuing to actively pursue the devolution much Corporation Tax | :01:11. | :01:17. | |
powers. We've already secured the devolution of our passenger duty to | :01:17. | :01:23. | |
secure long haul direct flights in and out of Belfast. We are against | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
the wholesale movement of tax raising powers from Stormont to | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
Westminster. It may be attractive to look at fuel druety and say | :01:30. | :01:34. | |
let's take the power for that to Northern Ireland so we could set it | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
at a lower level. The consequence of that would mean we'd have to | :01:38. | :01:43. | |
take the hit of any reduction. That's called Government. Taking | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
important decisions? It comes as a consequence to our public services. | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
If you reduced fuel duty by 10%. That would be 90 million pounds | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
worth of deficit. That's a lot of public Sir Viss you'd have to cut | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
away at. It isn't something that's a cost-free option. It may be | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
attractive to look at on superficial level but comes with | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
those consequences. We are not at a stage sufficiently that we've | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
developed our economy where it could be something we are easily | :02:12. | :02:18. | |
able to make up elsewhere. Paul, Sinn Fein are living in a dream | :02:18. | :02:25. | |
world? Some of this comes from a question I supposed this week in | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
the Assembly. Asked him if he has had any conversation with the | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
exchequer with regards to having more fiscal power for the executive | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
to take power of. He said he doesn't want any more because he's | :02:41. | :02:50. | |
a unionist. Sammy Wilson's always farb eerbious. My point is I doptd' | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
think business out there will accept that argument, because | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
you're unionist you don't want more fiscal powers. That has to be put | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
away. We need to move forward and govern for ourselves, take the | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
responsibility what we can do. That's some of the big issues with | :03:07. | :03:12. | |
regard to some of the fax-free powers. We could govern ourselves | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
much better. This is the same Government, the Tory-led Government | :03:16. | :03:22. | |
who put �4 billion of cuts for this four year period. If we had our own | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
tax free powers we could work that out and take some of the hits off | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
society where we could implement our powers with better use. We get | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
�8 billion of sub vention every year from Westminster. That's money | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
we don't raise our selves. We haven't got the capacity to race | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
that -- raise that ourselves. The people of Northern Ireland would be | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
in a Shabby situation if we had that power. We cant aafford that. | :03:50. | :03:58. | |
Mark is in our Foyle studios. SDLP is in favour of tax raising powers. | :03:58. | :04:04. | |
We'd find it very difficult to keep the same standard of living and | :04:04. | :04:10. | |
public service as we do now? That's why we have to be selective, | :04:10. | :04:16. | |
strategic and about how we amass tax raising powers. We were add vo | :04:16. | :04:22. | |
Kateing areas of fiscal discretion. No other party was interested at | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
that stage. Sinn Fein keep talking about tax raising powers as a way | :04:25. | :04:30. | |
of getting round the �4 billion hit on the budget. Where are they | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
saying they'd raise pz 4 billion out of our hard-pressed economy? | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
Which business sector would be targeted? Would they massively | :04:39. | :04:47. | |
increase income tax. We already have lower wages than other parts | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
of these islands. Sinn Fein are somewhat incoherent on this. It is | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
attractive to say you want tax varying powers when it comes to | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
making a dipbs to sectors of the economy. We've tried to help | :05:01. | :05:07. | |
sectors in the past given things like the climate change levy, | :05:07. | :05:14. | |
aggregates levy, air airport duty etsz. It is one thing to have tax | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
Vaiying powers to shelter parts of the economy. It is another to say | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
we want on a wide ranging bases, raise rapidly more money out of an | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
already tight economy. That's where Sinn Fein don't make sense. They | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
haven't told us what tax, what amount, who they will be hitting, | :05:31. | :05:41. | |
:05:41. | :05:43. | ||
how they would hit it. Let's put some of those points to the panel? | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
Surely some of the arguments Mark's putting forward and Simon put | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
forward is they are afraid to govern them sells. People put uls | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
into the position... That's not an answer to the question. Where's the | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
money going to come from? What we are saying is let's see what tax | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
money is paid out every year here. We cannot get that answer. The | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
British exchequer won't give us that answer. We could pay more | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
taxes here than we're given back in? Do you really think... I don't | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
know where you'll get that from. are not getting them figures. Let's | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
press for them figures. With the the Finance Minister has a duty for | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
iend out what they are. If you get those figures and they showed we | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
give back to the exchequer much less than we got from it, would | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
that supper your plans? How would it? It would work in our favour. We | :06:36. | :06:42. | |
are saying if we are paying more tax money out on a yearly basis we | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
could govern and have much more money for ourselves. I sit on the | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
committee where we had three experts in taking about things. | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
They are saying we've Ben fit the from the Barnet forpbl la up to now. | :06:56. | :07:02. | |
We are at tipping point. In years ahead that money will reduce more. | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
I skrnt' heard the Finance Minister or anyone for that matter state | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
those facts. We need to get to those issues. We'll have less money | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
to spend on businesses on the economy and building our economy. | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
That's what we need to do. It is clear to me and the three experts | :07:19. | :07:27. | |
who were at that committee, to reed the minutes of that meeting. I wish | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
we were raising more in tax revenue than we were taking in from | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
Westminster. We wouldn't go through the economic turmoil we are in | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
Northern Ireland if that was the case. The truth is there is �8 | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
billion of sub vention coming in each and every year. We are not | :07:43. | :07:48. | |
alone in regions of the UK, it is only London and the south-east who | :07:48. | :07:54. | |
pay for themselves. I aspire to it. We should all aspire to all of us | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
paying more of our way. That's what the executive Si trying to do to | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
bridge that gap that there is in terms of productivity in Northern | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
Ireland. We are a long way away from the position Paul thinks we | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
are in. What I fear is not governing for ourselves, what I | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
fear is if we go down the foolish route Paul's outlining, the | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
consequence for people in Northern Ireland, the consequence for public | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
services in Northern Ireland will be severe. I don't fear taking | :08:23. | :08:29. | |
control of our own distinny. shouldn't dismiss the scale of the | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
sub vention. As far as Paul saying he's not heard anyone else talking | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
about the Barnet formula, many years ago I warned people that | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
formula would come to a point where there would be a squeeze and we | :08:42. | :08:47. | |
needed to address it as a region. We'll realise that will open up | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
around us in the context of Scotland. That's why we need to be | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
thinking about what fiscal discretion we want. We have to be | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
sensible. We can't say give all tax raising powers. The people who | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
would happily let the us raise all our taxes would be the people in | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
the south of England. If we are going to have fiscal powers we need | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
to use them to the benefit of our economy and our people. If we are | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
left having to raise the tax bills on every worker and firm that won't | :09:20. | :09:26. | |
help us back into competitiveness. People won't say that's a great bit | :09:26. | :09:33. | |
of self-Government up' agreed. Make us let competitive than our people | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
in this island. We need to be sensible. He's saying about tax | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
raisinging powers. We are talking about takes fearing you Poers. | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
Let's pose the questions to the British exchequer, how much money | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
is coming out of here every year to the British exchequer? That's a | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
question... You've asked that question already on the programme. | :09:55. | :10:05. | |
:10:05. | :10:06. | ||
Ask Paul Paul then... It is not all about tax raising. Mark, I want to | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
raise another subject in this forum. The SDLP are concerned about the | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
effect of the welfare benefit reforms in Northern Ireland. You | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
accept the need for reform? course there's always need for | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
reform and adjustment in a system to make sure benefits get to people | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
who need them. Changes need to be made anyway to better support | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
cancer patients for instance. Many of these reforms of going in the | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
opposite direction. The one bit of headline reform many parties agree | :10:35. | :10:42. | |
with is the idea, the concept of a universal credit. In particular, if | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
that can improve the experience people have had with working tax | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
credits, that would be an improvement. In principle that's | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
the target of these reforms. We don't have all the details yet. The | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
actual regulations that will apply and have effect on people, we still | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
don't V the Government's pushing this bill through in Westminster | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
and are expecting Stormont to pass a karaoke version when we don't | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
have the detailed regulations. Alastair McDonald accused the | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
executive of not being prepared for these reforms. Do you accept that? | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
Not the case. Nelson McCausland's in regular contact with the | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
Minister. Some of his contact is almost daily. This is something | :11:24. | :11:30. | |
which is taken very seriously. There's an executive sub-committee | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
on welfare reform. Everybody would embrace welfare reform that simple | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
fist the system, that ensures there is not a culture where it is | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
easier... And pay special atense to the needs of Northern Ireland? | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
and do what we can with the system with have to ensure some of the | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
most negative affects are not hitting our people so severely. | :11:51. | :11:59. | |
Gentlemen, thank you. Is it just me or is politics here | :11:59. | :12:06. | |
getting more colourless, tame and boring? Everyone's on message | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
wearing smart suits, towing their party lines saying what they are | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
supposed to say. I Ronically, as though we have a five-party | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
executive and seven parties in the in the Assembly. Politics in | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
Northern Ireland is more uniform than ever. Where's the passion, | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
fervour? Where are the people who chose for themselves not followed? | :12:28. | :12:34. | |
This is the city which produced radical Protestant nationalists. | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
Dynamic men and women who dared to dream differently? Where the | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
political free-thinkers? Who don't slot into the preordained boxes. | :12:43. | :12:49. | |
Where the Catholic Unionists protestant republicans. Even a few | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
would liven things up a bit. Instead we get the grey sludge of | :12:53. | :12:59. | |
conformity. Our politician are increasingly looking and sound the | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
same. This is a political culture where our single Green Party | :13:04. | :13:12. | |
representative is the close close est thing Stormont has to a -- an | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
anarchist. We have the spuds and Alliance Party to break up the | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
tribal set-up but they'll never set your heart on fire. They are more | :13:19. | :13:25. | |
like a comforting blanket of mashed potato, pleasant and wholesome and | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
you might want to go to sleep afterwards. On the rare occasions | :13:29. | :13:35. | |
when people do anything remoatly sur Rexry someone has been naughty. | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
When David McNarry got too expanseive about his talks with the | :13:39. | :13:48. | |
DUP, Ulster Unionists leader Tom Elliott slapped him down. It is not | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
just the DUP where discipline are valued more highly than personal | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
initiative and imagination. There's a collective fear of breaking the | :13:55. | :14:02. | |
rules. Those of us with a hangering for more political flafr have to be | :14:02. | :14:09. | |
content with small, random of colour. Like Nelson McCausland | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
inviting Mary Portas to give advice on our ailing high streets. I love | :14:13. | :14:20. | |
the thought of an encounter between Nelson and Portas who likes to wear | :14:20. | :14:26. | |
dominate rix boots and is described as the glamorous half of a lesbian | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
couple. We've been talking about Ian Paisley this week. That's a man | :14:30. | :14:37. | |
you could never accuse of being dull or boring. Yet it was only | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
when he announced his rabble rousing ways and went quietly into | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
Government with Sinn Fein this place set down it a fragile he can | :14:44. | :14:50. | |
lib rum. It seems one dimensional dumbness is the price we are paying | :14:50. | :14:57. | |
for peace -- dullness. Not fooming idea logs. It is boring but, I | :14:57. | :15:07. | |
:15:07. | :15:08. | ||
We talked last week about the SuperPacs, the groups funneling | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
tens of millions of dollars in anonymous donations into the US | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
presidential campaigns. Before we tut tut about the undermining of | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
democracy, we should remember Northern Ireland is the only part | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
of the British Isles where the identity of political donors is | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
kept secret. But there are mounting demands from voters for the | :15:26. | :15:36. | |
:15:36. | :15:39. | ||
The vast majority of people surveyed in Northern Ireland would | :15:39. | :15:45. | |
like to see donations to political parties made public. There is still | :15:45. | :15:51. | |
a degree of concern of possible intimidation or fear of reprisals. | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
I believe this is still a veil that political parties hide behind. | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
there's nothing to hide, let's have it out in the open. Now, you may | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
know what your political party stands for, but what you don't know | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
is who is funding them. Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
where those who donate or loan money to political parties are | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
allowed to remain anonymous. There are mixed views about this among | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
the parties, but those who want their donors to remain confidential | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
say that's because naming them could put them in danger. | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
Information on donors to political parties is collected by the | :16:32. | :16:38. | |
Electoral Commission. If a political party receives �7,500 | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
paid to the central party or �1500 to a branch of the party, they make | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
a return to the Electoral Commission on a quarterly basis. We | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
would ensure that the donation received was from a per missible | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
source. The commission commission also surveys the public. | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
The latest findings show voters want access to that information. | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
The vast majority of people surveyed in Northern Ireland would | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
like to see donations and loans to political parties made public. The | :17:09. | :17:15. | |
figure currently is 62% would like to see that. We only have 4% of the | :17:15. | :17:23. | |
people surveyed in 2011 of the view thra -- that information about who | :17:23. | :17:30. | |
donates should remain confidential. So we carry -- carried out our own | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
survey. Some things are fundamental. Information is one of them. This | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
stuff about security is a red herring. I don't think the security | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
risk would be a significant factor and it might be an excuse that is | :17:40. | :17:47. | |
being given. I don't believe that's a valid reason. If they really | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
wanted to donate they wo. If their politics are strong enough and they | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
have the money, I think they would do it. If they're being voted in by | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
the public, the public has the right to know who is funning the | :17:59. | :18:05. | |
partiesment Where do the parties stand? Sinn Fein wants an ebd to | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
keeping donations to political parties secret. On its website it | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
publishes the amount donated to the party, but not the donors. Alliance | :18:13. | :18:18. | |
also believes donations to parties or public representatives should be | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
publicly declared. But the SDLP is worried about the safety of donors, | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
especially in the light of disdepartment -- dissident | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
activities. The U ever P agrees. They believe the information could | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
be of use to terrorists. The DUP says there is still a trifpbg for | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
donors being identified with a political party. | :18:39. | :18:45. | |
It's less draink Russ now than -- dangerous than ten, 15 years ago. | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
There is still a degree of concern, perhaps a perception more than | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
reality of possible intimidation or fear of reprisals. We're told every | :18:53. | :19:01. | |
day that this is a new Northern Ireland, that we have a news -- new | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
dispensation F we have, why are we clinging to relics in terms of | :19:05. | :19:12. | |
suppressing transparency from the past? The TUV is not the only party | :19:12. | :19:17. | |
sceptical that there is a security risk. That is an old argument | :19:17. | :19:24. | |
that's no longer valid. The Green Party is so convinced, it's | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
publishing the names of donors on the website We think it's a key | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
element of democracy that the people who go out to vote know who | :19:32. | :19:34. | |
is funding their political parties and how they're being funded to | :19:34. | :19:39. | |
make an informed choice. What other parties may say is that the Greens | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
are unlikely to be the victims of a terrorist-style attack that some of | :19:44. | :19:49. | |
the other parties might face, that's why they need the | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
confidentiality. If we can take soldiers off the streets and reduce | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
policing numbers and if people can stand for election safely, surely | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
we can have transparency in donations. There's a recognition | :19:59. | :20:06. | |
that the lack of transparency can undermine politics. It's | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
significant donation that's may be made by people who could be viewed | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
as having an altierior motive and making the donation. That's what we | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
all have to guard against. Some of us have systematically guarded | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
against it, but that's not enough any more. We need to be clear, if | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
money comes in, be it significant or otherwise, people need to know | :20:27. | :20:33. | |
where it's coming from and how much it is. Sinn Fein tell us their MLAs | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
only take an industrial wage. I know from questions asked there's | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
no MLA paid officially just an industrial wage. They're all paid a | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
full salary. If they say that they then give it to the party, that | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
could be a donation which would be registerable and the public should | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
be able to see that against the records of the Electoral Commission. | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
This issue isn't the responsibility of Stormont. It's down to the | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
coalition Government at Westminster. Secretary of State Owen Patterson | :21:02. | :21:07. | |
believes more information could be released without compromising donor | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
safety. He says he's committed to providing full transparency around | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
political donors in Northern Ireland in the long-term. | :21:14. | :21:19. | |
The current legislation expires in February of next year and any | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
change will mean new legislation. As there's already a heavy work | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
load at Westminster, even if there's agreement on change, it | :21:26. | :21:33. | |
could be a while yet. Julia Paul reporting. This week | :21:33. | :21:39. | |
brought the 60th anniversary of the accession of Queen Elizabeth II to | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
the throne. The British nation is preparing for the Diamond Jubilee | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
and with Prince William and his bride the darlings of the media, | :21:46. | :21:51. | |
the future of the monarchy seems secure. With me now to analyse the | :21:51. | :21:59. | |
endure of the monarchy is Jeffrey Donaldson and in London in London | :21:59. | :22:08. | |
Graeme Smith. They've been banging the drum for 30 years but making | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
little impact. In this year, do you feel like giving up? Republic was | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
formed in '93, but in terms of actually being an active | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
campaigning group it's been going for five or six years. It was | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
relaunched as a campaigning pressure group. Last year, when the | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
media were getting into a bit of a frenzy around the Royal Wedding, | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
our supporter numbers rocketed. From the day that the wedding was | :22:32. | :22:37. | |
announced through to the day of the wedding itself, we saw an increase | :22:37. | :22:43. | |
of more than 100% of our supporters. We now have over 20,000 supporters | :22:43. | :22:48. | |
UK-wide. That is now growing again as we build up to the Jubilee. | :22:48. | :22:53. | |
the polls show overwhelming support for the monarchy. One done last | :22:53. | :22:58. | |
year looking even to the accession of King Charles only 13% of people | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
said they'd prefer to see the monarchy go than have King Charles. | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
That poll was hugely misleading. A poll one week before the wedding | :23:07. | :23:13. | |
from ICM showed 26% of the population thought we'd be better | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
off without the monarchy. The bulk of people that were polled around | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
that time also said that they weren't interested in the wedding. | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
So whilst most people still given a choice would say well, let's keep | :23:26. | :23:32. | |
what we've got, it isn't the same sort of love for the monarchy that | :23:32. | :23:38. | |
you would have seen 30 years ago. Do you agree that there is a swell | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
of republicanism in the country at large? I don't think there is. | :23:41. | :23:47. | |
Support for the monarchy is holding very strong. When you consider that | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
even Alex Salmond who wants to make Scotland independent wants to | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
retain the monarchy, and the link, even in the event of independent | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
Scotland, it shows how popular the monarchy is across the United | :24:00. | :24:06. | |
Kingdom. Thomas Payne called it an exceedingly ridiculous composition. | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
If you were starting today you wouldn't invent a monarchy would | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
you? It's part of our history, that's the case. Whether or not we | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
would invent it today is not really the Irish you. People are happy | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
with the settled situation, our constitutional status. The monarchy | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
has served us well. The United Kingdom has enjoyed centuries of | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
stability, when all around the world we've seen a lot of | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
instability, revolutions, coup d'etat and so on. I think we can be | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
thankful that our head of state contributes to the stability that | :24:38. | :24:43. | |
the United Kingdom enjoys. How do you counter that Graeme Smith? | :24:43. | :24:48. | |
doesn't contribute to the stability. The monarchies in Europe have | :24:48. | :24:54. | |
survived in stable countries. It's not that the monarchies have caused | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
it, they've allowed the monarchies to survive. This is a fundamental | :24:59. | :25:05. | |
part of our set up and our constitution. Our constitution is | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
profoundly undemocratic. The British people have little input in | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
the way our politics is managed, other than every five years we get | :25:12. | :25:17. | |
a vote for less than half of our Parliament. And in between those | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
elections, our Government is enormously powerful in terms of | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
domestic politics and that power comes from the Crown. It's much | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
more than just the institution, it's to do with our entire | :25:28. | :25:33. | |
political system. We want a system where we are genuinely democratic, | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
where the people have a genuine say in politics, right from top all the | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
way down to the bottom. It is fundamentally anti-democratic, the | :25:42. | :25:47. | |
notion of monarchy. That's a nonsense. If it was anti-democratic, | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
why would the people tolerate it? The people, by their own will, want | :25:51. | :25:56. | |
to retain the monarchy. That is the situation. The people... It is | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
anti-democratic institution by definition. You don't vote for the | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
king or Queen. It's not when it's the will of the people. Democracy | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
is about the exercise of the will of the people. Let me challenge | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
this notion that somehow republics are stable. Look at every single | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
conflict in the world today, tell me how many of those conflicts are | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
in countries where there's a monarchy and how many are in | :26:17. | :26:23. | |
countries like Afghanistan, where there is conflict. Afghanistan is | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
not... I didn't interrupt you. let you come back. Don't worry. | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
Graham is more interested in targetting ten to 15-year-olds who | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
want to enter a cookery competition as part of the Diamond Jubilee and | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
he says it's against the law for a school to allow its children to | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
enter a cookery competition because it's not republican. This is the | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
kind of nonsense that republic are coming out with. So weak is the | :26:49. | :26:54. | |
argument they're targetting school children. Republicanism is about | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
being democratic and having a system founded on the idea that, of | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
the sovereignty of the people. the republic of Syria, for example. | :27:03. | :27:09. | |
No, precisely. Syria is not a republic. It's a dictatorship. | :27:09. | :27:16. | |
a republic. It's got a President. So is Afghanistan. The United | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
States is a republic. We're getting the picture that republics are very | :27:21. | :27:26. | |
often are in unstable situations. Not necessarily. I'm asking Steve a | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
simple question. Show me one monarchy with instability? | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
you're going to keep on interrupting me and being rather | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
obtuse to put it bluntly, we're not going to get very far. A republic | :27:37. | :27:43. | |
is a country which is founded on democratic values. Syria is a | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
dictatorship. It is a monarchy, because it is, the fact that they | :27:47. | :27:53. | |
call themselves President, they are a hereditary dictatorship. It is as | :27:53. | :27:59. | |
our country used to be 300 years ago. Nepal was a monarchy and | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
suffered huge amounts of internal strife and they are now a republic. | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
There are much fewer monarchies in the world and therefore clearly | :28:07. | :28:13. | |
there are going to be more non- monarchy countries that have | :28:13. | :28:15. | |
political problems. Europe went through wars and revolutions as a | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
direct results of failure of monarchy on this continent. It is a | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
non-argument to suggest that monarchy is more stable than | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
republics. It is complete nonsense. What would your prognosis be for | :28:30. | :28:35. | |
the end of the monarchy? What can you foresee? Look into your | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
republic's crystal bass. A lot of the support that exists for the | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
monarchy is tied up with the Queen herself. She's coming to the end of | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
her life and reign. That's a natural fact of the way this thing | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
works. We're going to run out of time. I want to ask you, do you | :28:51. | :28:57. | |
think the end of the Queen's reign will be in some way a presage the | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
end of the monarchy? Absolutely not. There is no evidence of that. I | :29:01. | :29:05. | |
think the monarchy will be here for a long time to come. It adds real | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
value it our nation and people Cherish it. We have to leave it | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
there. Thank you very much. That's where we have to leave it. We'll be | :29:13. | :29:21. | |
back next week at the usual times. I hope you'll join us. Goodbye. | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
Where due get your license a lucky pick? Some carry on this week, the | :29:26. | :29:31. |