Episode 6 The Nolan Show

Hello. Hello there. Hello there. Welcome along, ladies and gentlemen.

We are live on BBC One. Cheering Here is what is coming up. Can you

believe we are still arguing about flags in Northern Ireland? A draft

Government paper says paramilitary flags need to be tackled as a

priority. It is a dirty secret that no parent wants to admit to but

these mothers were brave enough to talk to me about their son's' drug

abuse. Nobody wants to tell anybody their child is doing this in their

own home. Their child is aggressive or running around the house when

they are high on drugs. People are afraid of their own children.

are. Do you remember this? At the height

of her fame, Gail Porter was projected naked on to the Houses of

Parliament. So she is here to talk Here is the dilemma. Get rid of

paramilitary flags because they are illegal, but his Northern Ireland

really ready for that? Course, the danger is there could be violence.

Do you really think the people who had a grip on these committees for

years are prepared to be told, rather than asked, to take down the

flanks? Then there are the so- called community gatekeepers, the

community work that the Government is worried about. Shall we hear

And also joining us, Chris Little Where are we at, Jim? I cannot

believe we are talking about flags, 14 years after the Good Friday

Agreement. Here we are, talking about whether the Community would

tolerate paramilitary flags coming down? It is against the law! Any

simple like that is against the law. There are a lot of things against

the law and people decide to break them at times, so we are coming

through a conflict here of over four years -- 40 years and that

goes back to the formation of our state. People are working to get

these things to move and have the proper reaction but it is not easy.

I can take you back ten years ago. There were people bringing 25,035

1000 flags into this country for paramilitary groups. You used to

drive around this country and see flags everywhere. You would see

three and four on EU want flag post. Bat has been massively cut down so

let's get it into perspective. Let's not build it up to something

that it isn't. It isn't that massive an issue. This draft

Stormont community relations policy, it is seeking to remove flags

through dialogue. It says it right to bolster the reputation of self-

appointed community gatekeepers. was chairman of a residents' group

for 30 years. I faced all sorts of things, getting phone calls at 2am.

Self-appointed, helping to work for the community for 30 years. My wife

sitting in the audience... What have you lived on for 30 years,

then? I was a builder for a lot of years and I have been unemployed.

But my objective in my community and for all the communities was to

try to make things better for people. This new phrase that

someone thought up, it is absolutely brilliant. I would love

for those people to come and do what I have been doing for the last

25 years. I will tell you exactly what they are saying. That these

community workers, you have got the power, the clout, you have

influence over the paramilitaries, what gives you the God-given right

to have this influence over the communities. That is for the police,

for the authorities. That is what they're talking about. It is time

to strip the power of these community workers. Stephen, how it

is power putting a flag up? There are occasions where there have been

things at side chapels and people have been asked to remove them. But

to turn around and say someone has power because there is a book

bought -- couple of flags up. Flights do not hurt people.

power is whether you can actually stop people putting them up, or to

take them down. Let's do a text Please text the word vote before

You lot have walked out. You are throwing your dummy out of the pram.

You are out of the process. You were talking from the sidelines.

have been accused of a lot of things over the last day or two,

boycotting and failing to compromise today. We have been

leading compromise for years but what I would say is that Northern

Ireland has moved forward. We have come a long way but the terms in

this document certainly do not refer to people, community workers

like gin, who are doing excellent work, Grant, but that excellent

work is undermined by people who seek to exert influence on

communities by using illegal flags. We are calling for robust action.

We need to recognise that people have the individual right -- right

to fly national flags on their own property. By that is distinguished

between paramilitary flags. But on paramilitary flags, do you think

they should all be taken down? Zero-tolerance. I do not. You go

back to places like America where they tried to hide and bury the

facts of the Vietnam War. We are talking about taking barriers down.

More barriers have been put up since the ceasefire. People need to

move to the proper place to get these things done within our

society and if you are starting to go against individuals and

communities, you are going to end up taking ourselves back.

Terrorism Act 2000. It is an offence to display any simple

directed to a paramilitary organisation. It is an offence!

What do you mean, yes? Stephen, it is an offence to park somewhere!

You break the law when you do that every time. What is the difference?

I get done for it. The point is we will either get into the situation

where we have respect for all law and order or for many years we are

going to keep on saying that we are a special case in Northern Ireland.

It is 14 years on. Have you not seen how we have moved on since the

old days of paramilitary flags on every lumpers? In a lot of areas

there has been a lot of changes. -- every lamp-post. Let me go to the

back row. I am part of a group that runs Christian events and we had an

open-air meeting in Portstewart. We tried contacting the council to see

if we could put a ban up a week in event -- in advance for are absent.

We were told that if we put a banner up it would be removed and

we would be charged for the removal. Why should it be one rule for them

and one for us? Why should we get You have a paramilitary flag up and

you do nothing -- they do nothing about it. I have had instances

where church fetes advertising has received fines. Go ahead. They

cannot erase the history of this country by taking away flags.

I do not think it holds bar in a community. Wise up! No one is going

to fly them outside their houses anywhere. So no one gets the

windows but in if they ask the wrong boys to take their

paramilitary flags down? No one is frightened of paramilitaries in

this country? They are gone. You are making all sorts of

interesting points but I think all sorts of groups are in society and

we have to be tolerant with one another, or whether they are

paramilitary or whatever. If they want to put up flags they have got

to do it in a safe way. I would like to see people move on. If we

train these people... I have seen young lads, 15, 16, up maybe a 100

foot ladder and I do I know if there have been trained. I would

like to think that they can be properly trained and their skills

used in the building trade and they would have something positive to do

for society could as well as putting up lax. Any time they put

up lives around our area, north Belfast, they do ask people in the

streets if they won the flags up and if people say no, they do not

put them up in the streets, but they do put them up on the main

thoroughfares along main roads. I do not know about zero-tolerance.

It is difficult. They should be able to say yes they are going up

on 15th June and coming down on Who is the Justice Minister in this

country? My colleague David Ford. Why is there a law that's not being

enforced? There is consequences to the paramilitary flags. There is

loss of investment - people feel difficult to visit those areas. It

does hinder the regeneration work Jim is doing. Those are serious

consequences for local communities. The Justice Minister has done a lot

of work to try to improve community relations. This is an operational

issue for the police. When the police did take courageous

decisions to act and deliver on it last year, we failed to see the

type of political leadership of these actions that I think would

help enforce the laws. Chris, you have to admit that you have to work

at these things. It doesn't happen overnight. 14 years. I don't know

about the colours being taken down one road one time and hundreds went

up and Ian Paisley asked for a flag to be removed, and hundreds went up.

Lads on the street and people who are continually trying to stop the

trouble - do you want that happening just when a few flags are

asked to be taken down? Hello, Nigel. Hello. How are you doing?

You can speak to Jim. Just a point from the radio. I have listened

again tonight. I am not really too sure what his point is. Is Jim

concerned about positive change for the future, or is he more concerned

that his own position as he describes it as a self-appointed

gatekeeper would be overlooked and some positive action would happen?

Because does he think that paramilitary murals, the marking of

territory, the lack of investment in his community - do you think

that's a good thing, or do you think it's a bad thing? Do you want

to respond? There was an incident some years back in Claim Place, and

we worked tremendously hard to bring east Belfast back on the map

in a proper manner. It was in east Belfast. It was one of the areas

that changed ten paramilitary murals to ten different murls -

can't go through them all now, but in reference to the question about

- I want to see us moving on, but I want to see it done right. I don't

want to see people getting agitated and aggressive about what we're

going to do. If we're going to do it, we'll do it all together,

completely as a unit as opposed to leaving part of society feeling

unwanted and unused and being used by certain people over the years.

Why then are there paramilitary murals in the - why haven't you

been able to deal with that? you'll let me answer is question -

I'm going to answer the question for you - it's not only in loyalist

areas. In Republican areas - I am explaining it to you. Let me

explain what the answer to that is because I asked the people who done

that. There was murals, nearly identical that went up in the White

Rock area in a Nationalist area where... Let him finish. Were

portrayed carrying the coffins of IRA volunteers and stuff like that.

And loyalist areas we had an agreement that there would be no

more murals. When people seen this happening, they decided to take it

upon themselves. That's my answer. A commentary at the very front.

Let's have a little bit of straight talking here. Paramilitary flags

are like a cancer that deface the areas that actually put them up.

What do they represent? A celebration and remembrance of

groups that murdered thousands of our fellow citizens, and in what

way can they be tolerated by the law? If we cannot enforce the

removal of every paramilitary flag, then that demonstrates, Stephen,

unfortunately we haven't moved one jot beyond 1988.

APPLAUSE You were, Duncan, with the

Community Relations Council. Do you think we're in a position now in

Northern Ireland where zero tolerance would actually overwhelm

those who still think they've got the power to dictate what they want

rather than what the law wants? It's absolutely critical now. It's

14 years since the Good Friday Agreement, 18 years since the

ceasefires that we have a really clear pathway to get there because

I think as David said, the key issue is does this represent

paramilitaries still being there? Are we being told 18 and 14 years

on we're still having to deal with people who if we took these down

there would be a violent response? Do you doubt that if the police

moved into some of these areas - community worker support - let me

be clear, I am not knocking every community worker. While I am in bed,

they're up there and working hard. I acknowledge that but some

community workers think they have power, and they think that for a

reason - because they give the clout -- they do have clout and

power. Are you seriously telling me if a police officer went in without

the permission of the community they wouldn't get bricked and

attacked? We know it happens. problem is that makes the point. We

still have this kind of violence in this community. It's absolutely

disastrous for working-class communities in the inner city

because nobody's going to put any money in there or actually get any

investment where it's urgently needed. I know Jim has done tonnes

of good work over the years. I do know. I also know it is time to set

a time line on this. It's 14 years too late. The police are the people

who enforce the law, not community workers. That's what's gone wrong

in Northern Ireland. We don't respect the proper force. There are

no answers here. No, that's the problem here - not enough

enforcement of the law. Very quickly, in the green shirt.

Speaking of time lines, a simple question - yes or no - fast forward

to 2026, would you ideally like flags to be gone from the streets

of Northern Ireland? There are a lot of things I would like in this

society to change. With flags? flags, everything. There is a lot I

would like to see. Let's be real about it. David says it was 14

years on since the peace process -, no, since political process. The

peace process is miles behind it. No, no. That is a fact. That is a

fact. APPLAUSE

Seeing those loyal working class areas - we have been left behind

big time with no political representation - compared to Sinn

Fein, we have very little... thing is the biggest party in the

country is the DUP. What are you talk about? They represent working-

class loyalists. The last time Ian Paisley and people like that

represented the loyalists - when people took -

ALL SPEAK AT ONCE You have no authority because

nobody votes... I am not talking about authority. I am talking about

no representation and loyalist communities being left behind in

this, and we're doing the same with the peace process - the peace

process hasn't won 14 years... don't have the votes.

You may say that and see that it way, but we sit there with the

police and interfaces all over Belfast. We sit down with

politicians to deal with issues in Belfast, and if we didn't do that

do you think the police would be able to get on with investigating

old people getting beat up, robberies, burglaries, all sorts of

stuff? Is it the community workers, then? Are you listening?

Yeah, but the point I am make to you is we're out there doing it and

doing it without pay. We're nearly out of time, but tell me this - why

do you think loyalists aren't getting the votes you need to have

the authority in the democratic process? Why not? There is a lot of

things - I don't want to say about the racketeering and the gangsters.

That has a part to play, but also Unionist people have been very

adverse to voting to people who came from a paramilitary background,

simple as that. That's the way unionism has been over the years.

They don't readily take to people who came from a violent background

to where we are today, simple as that. In the meantime, keep the

voting going. Please thank Jim and our guests. Thank you very much

indeed. Thank you, Chris. Thank you very much.

Right. Please remember you need to type "vote" before yes or no or

Here's what's still to come: two mothers are so desperate to help

their sons hooked on drugs, they got them both arrested. Now, next

up, for years my guest was the face of children's TV before presenting

Top Of The Pops. A lads' mag pin-up at the height of her success, a 60-

foot naked image of her was famously splashed across the Houses

of Parliament. Incredibly, that was back in 1999. Since then she's

struggled with eating disorders, depression, suicide and was

sectioned under the Mental Health Act. Ladies and gentlemen, please

welcome Gail Porter. APPLAUSE

Hello, Gail. Good to see you. Good to see you.

They like you. Just makes me sound bonkers. No, it doesn't make you

bonkers. It's just a bit different, isn't it? Well, you have had a

roller coaster life, haven't you? If you start the story from when

you were seen and perceived as having everything in your life that

lots of people would want - famous, on TV, getting the money, on the

side of the - the Houses of Parliament... No, if you'd seen my

mother and father when I was on the side of the Houses of Parliament no,

they weren't happy. My dad still doesn't admit it happened. Did you

know it was going to happen? No, it was done behind my back. It's fine

now, but my daughter keeps saying to me, "Mummy, never, I would never

do that." Can we bring this up just one more time? Oh! We'll see if we

can get it up on the side of the Houses of Parliament. Tell me why

this wasn't discussed with you and your reaction when you felt that

you were there? Well, I was having a bit of a - I don't know - if

someone said, "Don't do something," I would do it. I was one of those

sort of kids at school, and I went to do this FHM shoot, and because

I've got a funny body shape and sort of had big boobs and small

legs - well, that's what they said, and they talked me into just not

wearing anything. I said, that's a great idea - also a few glasses of

champagne later. And that's it. Yeah. That frightened my

grandfather, so what we did was they took the picture, and then put

it on the front cover, never got paid for it, and then I was

brushing my teeth in the morning, and I was in my bathroom, and BBC

News was on, and my name came up in the knew, and my name doesn't come

up in the news. I went through and saw this image, and I kept thinking

someone had put a DVD in or it was a joke or I was going through - it

was video in those days, not BetaMax. It was video. It turned

out it was my bottom on the houses. It was all completely illegal. My

grandfather was very proud of me eventually. When was that, Gail?

1999. And by 2003 you were diagnosed with post natal

depression? Yes. Four years later. Can you remember when you first

thought to yourself, hold on a moment? With the post natal

depression? Yeah, was there a time, a place, day? I struggled all the

way through my pregnancy, and then when I had my daughter, my ex-

husband was brilliant, but he was on tour for - he was a musician, so

he was off quite a lot, and my parents were up in Scotland, and I

just started to panic, and I didn't want anyone to touch my daughter. I

was overprotective. I had a friend that had post natal depression, and

she couldn't physically hold her baby, so in one way I was lucky,

but I was - you know, if the midwife came around, I'd hide under

the sofa, and I'd close the curtains and just didn't want

anyone to come near me, then it started to get a little bit out of

control, so yeah... And then 2005, and what a life you have had - up

and downs. 2005, you separated from Dan, then March 2005, you attempted

suicide. I didn't attempt suicide, no. That was what was in the paper,

but what happened was I was suffering really badly from post

natal depression, and my daughter had gone to school, and I hadn't

slept for three or four days, and I have insome kneeia, just to add -

another one. I think I am going to tick the boxes to go, yeah, I've

got that. I was given sleeping tag tablets from the doctor. When she

went to school, I took a couple, didn't work, took a couple more,

then I realised once I'd started vomiting, oh, I've gone over - I

never intentionally tried to kill myself. It was just utter

exhaustion, and yeah, ended up in hospital. That was the same year

your hair started falling out. another tick!

LAUGHTER She said to me tonight when we

walked into the dressing room - I hadn't met Gail until I saw you in

the dressing room tonight - she said, "I got my hair done

especially for you!" Yeah, you know what I did? I have a couple of Bigs,

and I have a couple of stray bits coming up. Most women do their hair

for things like this, so I did my hair with a Bick. You're incredibly

brave because you're outspoken about mental health, which is a

huge issue for us here in Northern Ireland. It's a huge issue for us

now, but in Northern Ireland, we have very high rates of mental

health comparatively speaking to the rest of the UK, and, you know,

your lows - you go very, very low, and it's a constant struggle,

right? Yeah, I think - I don't think I'm outspoken. I just think

I'm very honest. I don't see - my hair fell out. It's very obvious.

It's something you can see every day - you might as well talk about

it. I am not going to hide. I am not ashamed. I've not got cancer. I

am not dying. I am fortunate in a million other ways. When it comes

to my depression, yeah, I am up and down. I can be extremely excitable,

then very, very depressed and I don't want to get out of bed.

you describe the downs? It is just You just do not want to get up. If

I didn't have my daughter, I would struggle. Sorry. I think one in

four people suffer from up-and- downs. I am sure a lot of people

have had them. A come on. Back me up, here. I think everyone gets

them and it can be to do with work and all sorts of things. And there

will be so many people tonight's... I have just had my make-up done!

Are you OK? Yes, I am fine. I think there will be so many people at

home and they will be in that group of one in four. A lot of people do

not like to talk about it and one of the good things, when I started

to talk about it, and my hair and stuff, I used to go to Sainsbury's

for 20 minutes. It now takes about an hour and a half. Everybody stops

me and goes, do you know what? My sister, or my brother... It is good

to talk about these things but sometimes it is a bit hard.

making a documentary for the BBC... You are? Yes. Yes, because there is

mental health week next spring. I am doing one as well. We can be

crazy together! Here is this complex lady and you are greying --

crying at the same time as you are laughing... It is because I am mad!

No, sorry. I am looking at your arms and there are the scars where

you have been cutting yourself. do not do it any more but when I

was very depressed I used to self- harm. Why? I have absolutely no

idea. It was like a release. there that much pain from the

depression that you need that release? Well, I'm Scottish. We are

Celtic. We do not talk about things and then when I stopped talking

about things I start doing crazy things like hurting myself. But at

the time when I was doing it I did not think anything of it and now I

look and I think, well... I covered my arms up for years and now I

think, I have done it and there is nothing I can do about it. What is

the hope you can give people battering mental ill-health at home

now in Northern Ireland? What is your advice? What I did was I

talked to my friends, and I do not think that I am any different from

anyone else. I have gone through my problems and we all go through

problems and handle them in different ways. If you have got

friends, you must talk to your friends because if you do not, I

think one of the reasons I used to hurt myself was because I did not

speak to anyone. I kept it all inside and that was the way of

expressing myself, to myself, and the best thing I ever did was speak

to my friends. Doctors, I am sure a lot of them are great... You were

sectioned at one point. Yes! Sorry, it is not funny. I just was very

depressed and my partner at the time was not sure what to do with

me and he was a lot younger than me so he just got me sectioned. I am

writing a book about that. It will be at next year. Just in time for

Christmas! Just to cheer everyone up! So the prevailing message from

you tonight is if you do have a mental health issue, talk about it.

Find a friend, talk about it. Do not Lockett inside. Yes, the more

you Lockett inside the more it is going to explode. There are so many

different things, whether depression or other things. I met

loads of people when I was sectioned that were not very well.

But you are fighting. So I felt better. It is terrible. Yes, yes.

You are writing a book. I am doing stand-up. And you are blowing about

your daughter. Yes, she's great and by ex husband has been brilliant.

It is a difficult thing to talk about it but you would be surprised

how many people go through it and do not talk about it. You made me

cry, Stephen! What is wrong with you? What did I say to you? I am

sure there will be people at home and in this audience that will be

thinking to themselves, thank goodness there is someone like you

that has the guts and the bravery Thank you for having me. I was

thinking of auditioning for Star Trek! Do you not think? No! Do you

know what she said before she came on? That she was really nervous and

bored I go easy on her! What did you say? Wind your neck in. He said,

if you are really -- and really mean in Ireland, you say, will wind

your neck in! Ladies and gentlemen, Here is what is still to come. A

Football Club has announced it is taking on a goalkeeper on a trial

races when he is released from prison after killing two children

by drink-driving. Should obey even touch him? Do not forget the text

Please remember it took vote. -- please remember to put the word

vote before "yes" or "no". Imagine you trailed his high on

drugs, bashing his head off a wall and threatening to kill himself.

What would you do? Where would you go for help? You return to the

authorities, right? But you are about to hear from two distraught

mothers who claim the system keep turning their suicidal sons back

out again and the only way they can has saved them is to get the police

to arrest them. He was trailing his legs, foaming at the mouth. He was

head-butting the walls. I said, there is no way I am taking him

home like that. I have other children at home. I cannot be

Her son was acting so violently that police maintained a presence

at the hospital while medics assessed 10 but once discharged,

they had no responsibility to protect his mother. The policeman

apologised to me because I had to take him away. He said, I know it

is ridiculous but this is the system and there is nowhere for him

to go. Nowhere for him to go? broke my heart taking him home.

He's a big lad, I had to put him in my bed between me and my daughter

to make sure he did not leave. nightmare was just beginning. Four

days later, as her son started to come down from the drugs, she

threatened suicide. He left with a belt and said he was going to hang

himself. The child and adolescent mental health service was where

Margaret went to try to finally find someone to help a with the

situation. I thought when I took him into hospital I was taking him

somewhere there was going to be a bed. When I got there they said, he

is to highly on the influence -- under the influence of drugs.

are getting the runaround, going from one organisation to the next?

Jane, your story is similar. Yes. Your son is running around your

house with a knife? Yes. Threatening what? That he is going

to cut his own throat, attack me, whatever. If he is so high on these

drugs he can just flip at any minute. From going from a calm

fellow at to it somebody that... You do not know them any more.

are not your child. There is not one bed in Northern Ireland for a

child's with no diagnosed mental health problems to come down safely

off drugs. So what have our mother's done? They have adopted a

novel approach to dealing with their children. When they act up

they get them arrested. I am the one who has a criminal record, so I

have had to use the police to help me deal with him. Because nobody

else will help him? Nobody else will. I have done it in the same

way. I have had him arrested. I know the system now. I will not go

down to get him while he is being interviewed because I know I will

have to take him home again. I refuse to give a bail address until

he is clean. When you had your child did you think you would have

to do this? Now. You should be able to put them in a secure Unit

without having them charged and arrest. It strikes me that you as

parents are fighting so hard. actually told by a policeman

recently, throw him out. I said, he is 16. Brady's reign? Jane, there

are tears in your eyes. Why? Because you love them. If anything

happened to my wee lad, I could say, Jane is the same, we have done at

best, tried our best as parents. have not every door but someone

needs to help us, to help these children.

I am sure that some of you will find yourself in a similar

situation. Please pick up your phone. By the way, the text vote

for the first debate is now closed. Please do not vote. You may still

be charged. Please welcome our next Hello, Philip. I am trying to get

my head around this because we want this programme, and the radio shows

we do, to try to provide a platform so that people can engage with

Government, can say, this is what we need and if it is reasonable

Government will try to deliver it. And it seems to me that if you have

someone, a young person, and they are high on drugs and their mothers

and fathers cannot control them, and they are appealing to the

authorities for help, it seems absolutely crazy that those people

cannot get a psychiatric report until they come down from the high,

but when they are high and they are mad and they are hurting themselves

and their family, they cannot get secure accommodation. It just does

not seem logical. I have listened behind the screen there. I didn't

get the full sound quality. It is a terribly distressing thing for

those mothers and for the young men themselves. We have a problem in

our society which features on the radio show quite often about the

problems among young people using drugs and alcohol. There is a

particular problem when people are high, intoxicated, were on drugs or

alcohol. You will be well aware of what goes on in Accident and

Emergency departments on Friday and Saturday nights. Lots of people

have gone out for the evening quite well, end up in A&E much the worse

for wear, bringing huge difficulties. A&E departments to

cope with... Come on. This is well beyond this. Those parents buy Net

are at their wits end and they have to get their sums arrested to get

help. The somebody is high and violent and threatening, it is

difficult for health staff to be dealing with that. Why don't we

have a secure unit in Northern Ireland, a care facility? We have a

lot of care facilities and very good resources but there is an

issue if people do choose to take alcohol or drugs and become

aggressive. It is hard to manage in a care setting by health staff. If

people are aggressive and very difficult, it is very challenging

for everybody to manage their situation. But, Philip, if a young

person decides they are in trouble and they are hooked on drugs and

they are off the wall and they are begging for help, are they going to

get it? Yes. We have a very comprehensive range of services in

Northern Ireland, ranging right through from the voluntary sector

to the statutory sector, intensive day treatment and so on. Those

services are being build up. There are huge numbers of young people

being seen day in, day out. So what should those parents have done?

Their sons were of the scale. I heard the story. They have to get

them locked up. They have to call the police for help because when

they go to the state facility, the state health facility, they say,

sorry, you cannot get a psychiatric assessment and because your son is

high. It somebody is actually high, it is impossible to do any

meaningful psychological assessment. So let's provide the weasels where

they can go and be helped. I have talked to a colleague today who

works in a any and he says that Dalya and day out he has young

people coming in through the doors. They are offered support and

counselling. Many young people... And then sent back home? Many young

people are not able to Brit -- take up a particular thing. If people

are violent and threatening There is an issue for staff and other

patients. Many young people in this state are managed very well by the

Now, you see, the wrong in that is that's people with mental health

problems and substance abuse. That's the rub in that. But if

you've got substance abuse problems and you're really needing help, you

can't get into Beechcroft. That was from the Health and Social Care

Board, by the way, but that's the bit in that statement you should be

aware of. You cannot get in. evidence for the value of in-

patient treatment for people misusing substances is very limited,

and the evidence is much, much more in favour of intensive day

treatment, outpatient work, counselling. That's fine. It is

being developed for Northern Ireland, to put a high level...

You're the expert, Philip. I'm not, but if Yu got a 6'0 18-year-old

wrecking the house and they're high on drugs, and the 18-year-old is

saying, "Mum, I really need help and I am out of control" and all

you can do is pick up the phone and get your own son arrested and can't

pick up the phone to the Health Service of Northern Ireland and say,

"Please take this young person who is asking for hope the a secure

unit?" Is it too much to ask for the future in Northern Ireland?

you're - somebody who is aggressive cannot be managed in a health

facility for people who are vulnerable. Hospitals are for

people who are particularly vulnerable. If somebody goes out

tonight after this programme takes a lot of drink, gets behind the

wheel of a car and knocks somebody over and kills them, there is not

much of a defence in court, "Your Honour, I was drunk, because you

had the capacity to take the substance in the first place.

we're talking about here are young people that before they commit a

crime when they're on drugs, OK... But somebody who is aggressive,

Steven, is very difficult - They're asking for help before they commit

the crime, which is why there needs to be a specialised unit, surely.

The Health and Social Care Board say in partnership with local

trusts are taken steps to develop crisis home treatment teams to

respond to young people who are in crisis. I myself have worked in

home treatment and the adult centre. We're developing a number of

services within the Belfast and South-Eastern Trust. There is an

enhanced development of the drugs and alcohol team for adolescents.

There is a crisis home treatment team.

For example, the excellent FASA organisation, a voluntary

organisation, they have workers employed with the Belfast Trust in

the emergency department providing services even as we speak. Those

developments are taking place on a very welcoming, encouraging...

James, we'll put you on the radio in the morning. We're pushed for

time. He says his daughter has a bad time with legal highs using NRD.

He says he's so worried about her. He can't get any help. He's

contacted social services three times, and no-one has got back to

him. There is another person asking for help. We have to leave it there.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Philip McGarrin. Thank you.

APPLAUSE Loads of you have been contacting

us while we have been on air. Please keep your stories coming in.

Actually, quite a lot of comments coming in tonight. Cathy in Newton

abbey says drugs are taking over this country. "Now the best we can

do is admit it and get help for our young people", another says "I know

exactly what that mum is going through. I work every day with

young people high on drugs." You'll see contact details on your

screen - if you want to contact me - God forbid - 24 hours a day - you

can. Cheltenham Town have announced

they're signing up McCormack. He killed two children in a car crash

in 2008. The former Plymouth goalie was over the alcohol limit when the

high-speed crash happened. 28-year- old McCormack is scheduled for

early release next month after serving four years of a seven-year

sentence. He's done his time and deserves a second chance. That's

what Derek Hatton thinks. Please welcome him.

APPLAUSE Good to see you.

You all right? Thank you. Swindon should avoid the blow - that's

Terry's take. Here he is ladies and gentlemen. Hello. Good to see you.

It's interesting - what's your take on it? The obvious line is to say,

well, he's done his time, and fine - he should be given a second

chance. I remember at the time when this all happened the Chief

Executive of Plymouth argyle - used to be the Chief Executive at

Dunford - I knew very well. I remember Michael saying if he had a

list of the 11 players in Plymouth he would be at the bottom of the

list of the people he thought would do this. It's very much out of

character. Don't get me wrong. He deserve everything he got, but I

think now, you should say, perhaps he deserves a second chance, but

now you say if he's going to have a second chance he doesn't just play

football but every week he goes around schools in Swindon, and

while he's at those schools he does education stuff for drink.

think, Terry, of how impressional young people are of footballers.

They idolise them, don't they? A footballer has so much power. He

should never be putting on a shirt again? I don't think so. From the

point of view of any other job, fine. But as a footballer here,

going to be in the press all the time. Maybe he's going to get

praise. Maybe he's on Match of the Day. You have to think of the

parents of those kids. They're getting that reminder all day every

day. I am not even blaming the footballer here. In some ways he

was unlicky. Unlucky? In so far as he was there. Lots of feecious have

been caught unlucky. He got into a car drunk and killed two kids.

What's unlucky about that? A lot of footballers have done that but he

actually kids those kids. They were unlucky too, but what really kind

of grates on me is this Swindon Town chairman making out that he's

doing some good for society by, "I'm going to bring in these

excons." Well, I'd like to see how many exconvicts he's got working at

Swindon town? I think we can join him by Skype. The chairman of

Swindon Town is Jeremy Ray. Hi. Thank you for talking to us. The

pickture quality isn't great, but we can hear you. Why are you doing

this? I need to correct you on the facts. We were approached before

Christmas when we were told he was due for release in early June, and

actually, they said when he was due out for a day release a couple of

days a month as part of his rehabilitation, they said could he

come out and train with the squad? I'd like to make it very clear we

have not signed Luke McCormack. He's not been offered a contract or

paid any money at all, so I know that's not the sensationalist head

line some of the tabloids were looking for, but the truth is we

thought long and hard about this, that the point that Derek made

about his previous character - we obviously checked that out, and

having spoken to him, he's full of remorse, this lad. He realise whaz

he did was horrendously wrong. He wants to give something back and

give the -- get the opportunity to do that. Can you ever rule out him

wearing a Swindon town football top? I certainly can in the near

future. When he comes back into society, it's one step at a time.

Unfortunately, because he's a goalkeeper, it's a very lonely

position. If you did give him a contract, would you be prepared to

write into that that maybe a couple of times a week he should actually

go to schools and do something on drink-driving? I don't need write

that out because while he was in prison he contacted the PFA himself

and said, "When I come out I want to have the opportunity on days off

to go and speak with young apprentices," he actually high

lielted, "to point out the error I committed and point out how by one

foolish act they can destroy their careers." My point is it's

impossible for a human being not to feel terrible remorse. You know, if

I was a person who had done that but still in terms of him having a

high-profile job, he's not working in factory. He's not working in an

office. He's going to be on TV. He's going to be in the papers if

he does work as that. It's just a constant reminder of the pain, and

it's rubbing it in the faces of that family. Let's ask this lady at

the back. On Tuesday, it will be ten years since I lost a sister

through a similar case of a drunk driver killing two girls, in fact,

at that time. And from my perspective of a grieving family, I

feel that the problem here is not with Swindon town, and in fact, in

a way, it's not to do with Luke. It's to do with the sentencing, and

the sentencing that the Judeish system is being forced to apply,

and unless we make a step forward in proving that, people will not be

under - they will continue to get into cars drunk in whatever

capacity that may be. Thank you very much for your contribution

tonight. This young man here, second row. Go ahead, sir. Yes, go

ahead. Yes? I just think it sends out the wrong message to other

footballers and other celebrities that, you know, these guys think

they're above the law and they can just do what they want. Also, I

think is the guy really... So no second chance? You have served your

sentence. Sorry. I missed your name. I think you had the - you had the

best idea - is because the reality is the only reason we're talking

about this tonight is the sentence wasn't enough. He should have been

in a position where he had a much larger sentence. He killed two kids.

I'm sorry. That's what he should do. Once he doesn't get that, he comes

back into his job as a footballer, and he should be given a second

chance! In some ways - you have had the Lee Yu case and other

footballers who have been done for drunk driving - they seem to see

this as a match ban. You can continue this conversation on

Twitter. Let's look at this other story

tonight - 2012 - here we are in 2012, and London's gearing up for

the Olympics, and the owner of a legal brothel in the United States

has called for the legalisation of prostitution in London for the

duration of the Games. I'm joined live from Nevada by the man himself,

Dennis Hoff. Hello to you, Dennis. You're talking to us from Nevada

tonight. The legalisation of prostitution - why? Well, it takes

away the sex trafficking. When you Google "Sex trafficking" in

Northern Ireland, 700,000 things come up, in the UK, three million

things come up. It's a horrendous problem worldwide, but you've got a

lot of it there. We have David McElveen with us. Hello. What do

you think? I am very much opposed to the legalisation of prostitution

simply because I believe fundamentally it degrades women. I

am against prostitution, full stop. When the abolition of slavery took

place in the 19th century, people were very glad and very pleased

about that. I think this is another form of slavery. We might call it

people trafficking. We might call it exploitation, but this is the

abuse of women, and I think it's something that we should resist and

should reject very strongly. Whether we like it or not, it's the

oldest industry in the world. Whether we like it or not,

everybody has always wanted it. Whatever way you look at it, women

and blokes have wanted it. It's sex. There is nothing fundamentally

wrong with sex. The reality is it's the way it's organised. Surely our

friend here has got a point. The Hoff has a point. Steve, what we

saw in the news today was frightened women. We saw the police

breaking doors down. We saw frightened women, some of whom were

arrested, some of whom were rescued, and we didn't see the shadowy

figures behind this, but we saw those frightened women. If you walk

out of the studio tonight, you'll see those same frightened women

outside this building. Is this the best way of controlling it? Is he

offering to become the kind of pimp in charge of the Olympics?

LAUGHTER Do you want London 2012 to be known

as "the Pimp Olympics" - change Team GB to Team VD?

LAUGHTER APPLAUSE

He's out to advertise himself. think it's really inappropriate

Terry has come back from - when we last seen him to come and make

jokes about this subject. I'm not making jokes. I am criticising the

guy for bringing it up at this time. He's trying to cash in on the

publicity. Whether he should or shouldn't, the principle is still

important - there always has been and always will be prostitution, it

should be controlled. It's a view of this programme - if you're in

bed tonight watching the telly, you can continue to talk about this on

Twitter on Stephen Nolan. Interesting stat, that, is so 80%

of you suggesting that now is the time in Northern Ireland to take

them down. Where is Jim Wilson? Quickly, what is your reaction?

Doesn't surprise me. Does 80% disagree with you? No, doesn't

surprise - it surprises me 80% want to take them down, but it's the

manner how you get rid of them and how you get people to want to

remove them from society. Jim, thank you very much indeed. Please

don't forget, if you've got a story, will you bring it to the programme?

Bbc.co.uk/Nolan is the website address. There is the e-mail:

And don't forget, if you want to be in the audience, there is the