Episode 6 The Nolan Show

Welcome to the first Nowlan show. Are we any closer to bringing the

crisis over the union flag to an end. Also, these men will tell

their remarkable story in the studio after their transplant

Don't you very much for joining us. It is important for all of us here,

what we will be discussing. I know many of you want to have your say.

There is no point ringing us tonight, but you can get in contact

Sectarian fighting, plastic bullets, water cannons deployed. Petrol

bombs, bywords bricks and bottles thrown. Over 100 police officers

injured. 85 people have been charged in connection with the

rioting and why? Because of this flag. In a minute we will be

discussing the fall-out from all of this, the financial impact on what

needs to be done to make it stop. But first, let us look back at some

of the images of Northern Ireland that had been beamed around the

There has never been peace here. The Good Friday Agreement was a

false peace. We have all been walkover. It is time now for the

Protestant people to take a stand, once and for all. I am not able to

court the people off. That is the responsibility of others. They need

to step up to the mark and they need to step up to it now. We want

the culture that we have to be respected. Once you move, they will

do what they normally do. That camera has just been hit. Are you

alright? And the people that are calling for protest need to take a

step back and think about the I support people's right to have a

peaceful protest. I do not support their right to be going bricks and

petrol bombs at the PSNI. -- throwing bricks and petrol bombs at

the PSNI. A we need to show people who are doing this stuff that it is

wrong. There is a better alternative that delivers on the

political agenda. Be it is doing serious damage to the economy and

to the image of our city. Obviously, many of you will have

differing views as you are watching that, where ever you are living in

Northern Ireland. Let us try to get a sense of those different views

tonight to this television programme and what we are going to

do about it. Jim Wilson, I would like to start with you. What is

their anger about? Explain the anger within loyalism to me? I had

been talking about the desire of Sinn Fein to erode my culture and

everything I hold dear. Unfortunately, it comes down to

inquiry after inquiry. �2 million had been spent. It has not been

enough. The Prime Minister apologises, but what about my

community? They have been so many different situations. So it is not

about the flag? Let me finish. It is about a litany of things. You

take the Parades Commission and how they had been operating. You take

the historic inquiries. Last year at the number was 92 people been

charged. 89 of those were Protestants when 65 % of the

atrocities were caused by Gerry Adams and his people. I had been

doing interviews all week with journalists from all over the world.

This is the straw that has broken the camel's back. It is not down to

the flag. But, gin, here is your problem. Hold on... That is not the

message going around the world. Whether you like it or not, and I

know you condemn violence, when there are protests out on the

ground and you might have really, really valid arguments, you might

have really valid rules, as soon as one of them has a petrol bomb in

their hands, that is the message that goes around the world. Once

someone throws bricks at the police, that is the image that goes around

the world and your message is lost. Can you not see that? The media

focuses in on the minority who might pick up a petrol bomb. We see

Gerry Adams won and around as a peacemaker. I don't see focussing

on that dissidents who are entwined with Sinn Fein. If members of their

community are moving on, Wyatt was a prison officer shot in the head?

Many of these protests had been peaceful. We need to focus on away

young people who want to get involved. We need to look at the

At just want to nail this. When you talk about the media, for goodness

sake, be informed about it. I have asked Gerry Kelly very difficult

questions. In the last juries, I put it to and that some people saw

him as a former in a suit, I asked a Martin McGuinness how many times

he pulled the trigger no past, he refused to are so, you're wrong if

you suggest the brilliant newspaper or journalists and television

journalists in this country, we all try to do a balanced, decent job. I

do not want this to be about us. Do you acknowledge that these people

have had enough, that they see what terror brought you, what it brought

Sinn Fein and now they are sick and tired of you criticising them when

they have had enough. You are moralising about terror. We would

not say what is more all and what isn't. As the protest know about

Sinn Fein? Have realised been at them over the last 30 years as

well? Let me finish. Let me talk. promise I will give you a chance.

You're complaining because there was an inquiry? You are complaining

because there was inquiries into Bloody Sunday, which was the state

murdering 14 people. But, if I am the problem, then come to me. If I

am the problem... That it is me, what are you doing protesting over

the flag? I promise you will get a chance. I need you to put your hand

up, and you will get the chance, a direct question to Gerry Kelly.

asked me for the feelings about in the street. I will give you

something that happened this week. We have the Chief Constable coming

out and apologising to the residents of the Short Strand. I

was asked to go out on the streets by police. My grandson and myself

were battened, when were beaten to the ground, community workers were

a Deayton to the ground, and chief constable comes out, and that he

apologise to us? No, I didn't. I will give you the point that I want

to make. Gerry Adams came along, I want to ask him a question, he said

that nobody threw stones from the Short Strand will have a go at the

police. And do you agree with that? I didn't say that. In fairness to

Listen, listen, listen to him. Whatever the quality impact was a

done on this audience, it wasn't done right. When there is a tax,

saying that it was started over here, are you saying to me? I don't

even understand that. Are you going to it... Went with us get something

out of this tonight. You have challenged in, what is your

response? Do you have a specific question? Here is the opportunity,

to Gerry Kelly? Let me ask a question, over here, the people

have been told about the peace process, the young Protestants,

that we have to accept this peace process, now, the process by

definition has a start and an end. Nobody has ever come and told us

what the end of this process is, at what point is a complete? In your

eyes, as Sinn Fein, when is it complete? You used nice words like

equality and shared future, it is all lovely, and it sounds fantastic

across the world, but these are weapons of war to you, in Ulster

territory, and the young Protestants are no longer going to

You have made militant statements, and I know about militant

statements. I know my background, everybody in the room knows about

it, I was involved in a conflict, we had a piece Cross, we have done

very well through the peace process... He -- a peace process.

Is there legitimate anger? understand anger but you have to

work out the difference between perception and reality. You talk

about equality. Equality should be a little world. I am happy for you

to use it as I used it. I am happy to have a quality but when you say

that the Protestant working-class, working-class people with a

Protestant, Catholic, Unionist or nationalist, deserve a chance to

move ahead, but when you talk to me about the Protestant people are

disadvantaged, it is not that I don't believe you, I know that

Protestant working-class people are disadvantaged, but if you take the

top 20 wards of disadvantage on the statistics, 36 of the 40 wards are

It does not stand any more. second. One second. Listen, for

this programmed to work tonight, you have to respect me and let me

share. There is a gentleman at the back with his hand up. Go-ahead,

Sir. You are happy to talk about equality. Why after advice from the

equality commission did Sinn Fein and name a children's playground

after a member of the IRA? How do you feel about that? How do you

feel when you are being asked to compromise with the nationalist

community and Sinn Fein? The very fact that anyone would want to call

a children's park after a terrorist sickens me to my Ghat, and forgery

to sit there -- to my guts. At the jury to sit there -- and Ford Gerry

to sit there and talk about equality, he should be ashamed.

Republicans and nationalists have looked upon British soldiers and

the RUC and others in the same way you look upon the IRA. Do you

understand that? The difficulty he it is the debate over the last six

weeks has been around Britishness. You are forgetting about Irish

nurse. As we sit here in Northern Ireland today, 95 % of all the

arguments are about Britishness. Gerry, it is a specific question.

If Sinn Fein has tapped into the sensitivities of Northern Ireland,

then you know naming a children's play park after a terrorist is

sensitive. And then some of these people have to sit and listen to E

u use the word equality. -- and listen to you use the word equality.

It's just swings and roundabouts! If I go to loyalist areas...

him answer. If you go through... The park was named after Raymond

because he is seen as a hero. He died for his country. You may not

look at it from that point of view, but you need to understand that

people died for the try colour as well. People died for a united

Ireland. One-second. Look, again, let me make this clear. I want to

get as many of you in as possible. If you shout at me, I am not going

to come anywhere near you. Jeffrey Donaldson, there is clearly a

disconnect where people in a working-class loyalist areas feel

they you and your party are not representing them any more. That

you don't understand their frustration and anger and that you

are working with Sinn Fein now. It is easy for you guys and you have

left them behind. Do you at least acknowledge they feel like that?

wish working with Sinn Fein was easy. It isn't. We have a mandate

for where we are today. We stood for election. We have been put

forward on the basis of the stance we have taken. In East Belfast, the

most recent election, which was just over a year ago. -- a year ago,

the UUP was the largest party. As for being disconnected. --

disconnected, come and have a look at the work I am doing. I am

tackling issues like social deprivation, education or under

achievement. Look at the Sure Start scheme we started... So they have

got it wrong? That is not why they are on the streets protesting. Jim

and Jamie have highlighted the kind of issues people are angry about

and we need to understand this. The peace process I signed up to, we

were told for many years we couldn't have majority will in

Northern Ireland, it had to be about consensus politics. David

Ford's political career has been built on the notion of consensus

politics. What did we get from Belfast City Hall? Nothing. There

was not a single Unionist councillor who voted for the

decision to take the flag down. Use burned the Union -- UWE spurned the

Unionist community. The equality impact assessment that was carried

out by Belfast City Council, 95 % of the people who responded said

they did not want to change the flag situation on Belfast City Hall,

yet you ignore that. David, with respect, the decision in City Hall

was about going back to the bad old days of one-sided politics.

equality impact assessment is not about adding up numbers. It is

about the real issues of equality. A petition was collected on the day

of the covenant parade. The key issue is that nationalists proposed

the removal of the Union flag completely. Alliance on the basis

of equality advice, which is applied to other councils, and the

same advice that was accepted by DUP members in Lisburn... That is

not true, David. The flag was changed in Lisburn before and the

quality assessment. Let us get our facts right. When Liz then City

Council decided to Flybe flag on designated days, two MLAs were

members of the council and they did not vote against it. You need to

check your facts. We were the only party on the council who voted

baulk the flag to be flown 365 days a year. -- for the flag. Do you

stand over the way your party voted? Look at what has happened.

They at us go back to Belfast. Nationalists oppose the removal of

the Union flag completely. The Alliance put forward an amendment

to the Nationalist motion and that was agreed as the balance proposal.

What do you read out of what has, when you see the protesters

standing in front of City Hall and the message they are sending you,

do you learn anything from that? learned we are a divided society

and we have difficult issues to face. I also know that there are

more nationalist councils then Unionist. In the context of that,

the Alliance proposal for the designated day was the right

balance recognition. They love vast -- Belfast is within the United

Kingdom, but it is a divided city. When you talk about what happened

as a result... OK let's move on. Chris, what is your assessment?

existence of the flag protest shows... It is about consensus.

let him make his point. It is about consensus. Geoffrey seems to be

playing to the gallery tonight. In 2002, they built two new bridges.

In 2006 they gave land away so that a DUP monument could be built there.

How does that reach out to be nationalists? In Lisburn, you have

never had a Sinn Fein Lord Mayor, yet in every single council there

has been Unionist mares because of power-sharing. If you are talking

about a shared future and equality, what you need to do is talk to

people like Jim because until you send a consistent message to these

people, you will get people who believe they can take us back to

the days of old. You talk about the Stormont days of old. It was about

majority rule. What did we get on Belfast City Council? Are you going

to let me speak? Let in reply. got majority will at city hall. You

talk about the Good Friday Agreement. With respect, I have

tried to encourage people to. What did we get? Meyer identity was

beaten into the ground by the nationalists. That is not a shared

future. That is not consensus. Colin Met Devitt from the SDLP. You

wanted to take be blown down completely, didn't you -- to take

the flag down completely, didn't you? The majority of people do not

want to live in this kind of environment. The people in Northern

Ireland want to look beyond the talk we have reduced ourselves too.

This does not represent the future of Northern Ireland. If anyone

thinks they can build a political career out of this might get a

surprise. The way we will move forward... You don't believe in the

right to peaceful protests? We do not have peaceful protests. There

are genuine people out on the streets to believe in peaceful

protests. There are people involved in violence, but you cannot

generalise like that. We are making headlines around the world. There

are investors leaving. There are people who wanted to come here and

now they are saying no because of the way people have chosen to abuse

their right to protest and bring violence onto the streets. You

asked me about City Hall. We believe simply, and there is no

threat to anyone's identity or Irish and us, we believe that when

you have civic places, places that belonged to everyone, there should

either be no flags or a shared flag I get paid to represent the people

elect me. You get paid by the British Government a! Brother

people look at the money in your pocket? The people who let me, can

I answer this question? The people who elect me might be British or

Irish overnight say that they are Northern Irish and are not

interested in that but they are the people I represent, under I do not

the present them to... I want to try and collect as many voices from

the audience speak as possible. There is a young man in the very

front row. Just wait until we get the camera to you. The point that

you said, people fought and died for the tricolour, I agree with

that, whether the cause is right or wrong that is not for me to say,

but people fought and died for the Union Flag and are still fighting

and dying for the Union Flag. Please don't interrupt me, you told

me you would not interrupt me. Please don't interrupt me, I am

talking. Tell him why the flag is so important for you? Because

people are still fighting and dying for that flag, the match should not

be dying for that flag any more, you were a terraced, you fully

You will ask, but I want to hear a little bit more from you. When you

say that people have fought and died for that flak, how all do you?

20. What is important to you about Northern Ireland in terms of your

identity, what is it in your gut about what is important in your

life? It is British. In Scotland they do not get their flag removed,

they fly the tricolour in Dublin, why? Because it is the Irish like.

That is the British flag, and you have taken it down! How dare you!

You should be ashamed of yourself. He is not a traitor. Listen to what

he has got to say. I have to put this back to you. You have a

particular version of your Britishness, and I accept it. Just

let me finish. I accept your Britishness. You will not be happy,

Sinn Fein will not be happy until the tricolour flies above City all.

He have asked question, so let me finish. You believe in the

Britishness, I believe and my ambitious, we are in a part of

Ireland, or from your point of view, you are in the UK jurisdiction,

fair enough, but that is precisely the point. This is a contested area,

I want a united Ireland. I will continue to struggle for a united

Ireland. That is OK, but I have been very upfront about it. People

are let me on the basis of that analysis. You, not you personally,

but politicians and others need to try and put themselves, as I have

tried to put myself in your shoes, you have to try and put yourself in

issues of nationalists. I 1 never put myself in Nationalist

Republican issues, never, never! What is not being talked about by

Jeffrey Donaldson of the audience tonight is, how do you respect and

reach out to nationalists and republicans? Because you demand

that I do it, but it has to be both ways. Answer me this then, please.

Where is Michael Dean tonight? You are a prominent businessman in

Northern Ireland. Give me your sense. You have had a good say, we

will come back to more people in the audience, but, for goodness

sake, do not try to hijack the show. Michael Dean, your assessment of

what is happening to the economy in Northern Ireland. By see Belfast as

a city without a rudder, if I can make that first point. Talking

about the City Council, what it has brought to lost the door, it is

ridiculous that decision with the flak, since 3rd December going

forward, the economic doom and gloom that we have is a numbers

game. I do not think the leadership knows anything about numbers, they

do not know how to add this up. The tit-for-tat politics will obviously

go on for ever. We, as a business community, are very disturbed. We

do not know the way forward. We spent some time yesterday with the

Lord mayor at the City Hall. Is it really at a critical level? Beyond

the recession? Is it happened -- having a direct impact on business?

Will people lose jobs? The comments of Mr Wilson help me yesterday, the

recession is nothing to do with this. Most businesses are down

between 30-50%. We're having to lay people off. It is sad. I pill sorry

for Northern Ireland, for all these guys here tonight, of a Protestant

background, Catholic background, whatever, but we are living in a

black hole. I have been disappointed with the leadership of

City Hall over this. You say that you love Northern Ireland. How do

you feel when you hear a businessman telling you how badly

this is damaging trade? Nobody set out to sea damage businesses with

these protests. Sinn Fein, aided and abetted with the Alliance,

brought this issue up, not the protesters. The protesters will not

be held to answer by anybody. We have a peaceful right to protest

and we will continue to do that. do about the economy? This man

referred to the political class and said that we need to be educated.

See the notion that young Protestants need to be educated? We

are educated over this and we will be moving forward and we will be

challenging these things. So, journey, C in the next 10 years?

You will be challenged. It will not be Gerry or me that you're taking

votes off, it'll be this man here, if you are going to pick a fight

that this winter when you votes, it will be their votes. -- that is

going to win you votes. They might have made the biggest political

mistake of their lives, the Alliance Party. All of their

councillor set in Unionist areas, and you will have made the biggest

political mistake of your lives. We have supporters who have told me,

never again. David Ford? Let us be realistic about what happened and

the language that Jeffrey Donaldson used about rights being trampled on,

these comments are simply not true. I do not see how flying the flag

respect Leigh on City Hall on a certain number of designated days

is trampling on anybody's rights. It is a recognition of the reality

of a divided city. But what has been said by Joan has put his

finger on it, because this is about what happened when nearly along one

the Westminster seat. -- Naomi Long won the seat. That is why we saw

40,000 bogus leaflets targeting how, and she is not a city councillor,

she has been elected to Westminster. This is about height intentions by

PUP and Ulster Unionist politicians who did not admit it until they

were caught on camera. How does this impinge on anyone's rights

when a flagpole flies enough like, on any a of the year? The Equality

Commission is clear, David, and I have read it, and you should read

it as well. It is not contrary to equality policy to fly the national

flag on a civic building. That is what the caller the commission has

said. As for East Belfast, let me remind you that, in the 2011

Assembly election, one year after Naomi Long was elected, the DUP got

44% of the vote, the Alliance Party got 26%. You are deluding yourself.

If you think we need to deliver leaflets to win back east Belfast...

This is about respect for both sides of the community, David, and

it is time that belies party learnt that. I want to talk about violence

in the Short Strand area, as well. Tell me what happened to you. What

did you see? I represent the Catholic community in the Short

Strand, I represent the Church, and I speak for it. On Monday an 80 I

was at work and I got a phone call just before 7:15pm that it was an

incident outside the church. I was outside the church within 30

seconds of getting that phone call. When I arrived there, I knew that

there was a special-needs report children in the hall -- group of

children. And I saw a group of loyalists on the Newtonards Road,

petrol bombing the front of the Church, throwing petrol bombs over

into Strand Walk and St Matthew's Court. I have listened. You're

talking about equality here. Have democratic vote was taken at this

the council to have designated days were flying the flag. I want to let

the people on the Newtonards road know that it was not the people at

St Matthew's Parish that that that, and they want to ask them why they

have been attacking our church, as they did, and, if he has any

influence in the Newtonards Road, I believe that a way to stop all of

this interface problem is to remove the protests away from the

interface. We have had 16 illegal parades around the area, and most

of these parades and the City have been peaceful, the majority have

caused violence on my community. That brings us on to the territory

of, how do we get out of this? How do we reach agreement for all of us

in this country to try to bring an end to this, to calm the situation

down, to remove the tension, so that we're compromising with each

other, so that we're living in a country where we're all safe. What

do you think? What needs to happen in terms of political leadership?

But some councils fly on designated days, and he's including Lisburn,

Craigavon, and Gannon, Arona, some councils are more strongly

nationalist to do not fly the flag, most of the Unionist ones fly it

every day. Basil McRea suggested one flak policy for the whole of

Northern Ireland, he suggested designated days, same you mights

were of what you are, and they think that is worth thinking about,

I think that these guys should top. The other thing we need to talk

about is having an agreed flag for Northern Ireland that both

communities can accept and we need to fly that every day. It is

disgraceful what is going on. These people are not Democrats. They

shout down everybody. Mike point is, these people are talking about

democracy and as soon as anybody says anything that this agrees with

them, they shout them down and back them, and that is not democracy.

Why does the Church keep being attacked? Can you be quicker?

cent Matthew's church we have CCTV. I can prove what has happened. Not

one incident or one stone has come out of St Matthew's Church. That is

not true. He says not one thing has come out of the chapel, well I'm

from Newtownards Road. But other night they were throwing petrol

bombs, stones, everything. The PSNI stood there and did nothing. So can

grow. This is not just the flag issue. It has come at the end of

the process. People are feeling let down by their politicians. It is

understandable why the feeling is coming across. A 24th January,

there is a Bill been debated for people to vote at 16. We need to

get ready for this. Jeffrey Donaldson, where is the First

Minister and Deputy First Minister standing together, trying to sort

the situation now? Who has said no? The leaders of all the parties had

been a meeting at Stormont. They need to stand in front of this

community and say, or we will come up with a compromise on the up for

this country. Why has it a happened? It is a pity it did not

happen before Belfast City Council took the decision they did.

does it have to be behind the scenes? In it is not behind the

scenes and you know well Peter Robinson is meeting regularly with

all of the parties, including Sinn Fein at Stormont. We just can't see

Peter Martin standing together? will not solve the problem and if

you think well, you're wrong. Gerry talks about the need for agreement.

We have set up groups at Stormont to look at these issues, but why

are we doing that now? Surely consensus politics, and that is

what I should up to. I want the violence to stop, I want and

Northern Ireland that is peaceful. When people talk about leadership,

I would like to see more leadership on the national side to bring the

distant violence to an end. -- dissident violence to an end.

Another man has been shot this evening. I want agreement in

Northern Ireland. Alright. Thank you. He knows beat dissidents hate

me more than they hate him. I am the one who is out every time there

is an incident. I take public meetings and take on people who

look upon themselves as dissidents. There is no problem... No! Let us

control this. Martin McGuinness has been trying to get the First

Minister and Deputy First Minister to come out. He did show leadership.

Specific question - are you saying Martin McGuinness has asked to

stands shoulder to shoulder with Peter Robinson and he has refused?

A well, he has asked and it has not happened. He has asked who? He has

asked Peter Robinson. As I love to come down here, there was a meeting

going on. That is what Martin McGuinness was trying to do.

Publicly, he has said what we need is a unified front, but I agree

with you. It needs to be seen. will have to continue this debate

on the radio. I would do my best and I am sure others will do their

best to give you a voice, and please use the platforms that you

have to have your voice heard and let us do it democratically. Ladies

and gentlemen, please thank our panel tonight. Now, just before we

do move on, here is a quick reminder of how you can get in

Here is what is happening. Do you know what I want to do tonight? I

want to talk to someone who donated a kidney to try to save someone

else's life. I want to bring you that story, so let me do it. Now,

most of us are stretched to lending Our friends a few pounds, but what

about donating an organ. My next two guests have an unbelievable

Bond. Give them a round of applause. Hello there. Good to see. we only

have nine minutes left. Can you just give me a sense, as we cut to

beat Chase, Shane give me a sense of where it began with you? For me,

it began coaching sport. Jo does the same. We always seem to work

together and I didn't even know he knew I had renal failure. He said

to me, I believe you need a kidney. I will give you one. That was the

start of the process. Why would you do that? It is a nice thing to

think about, but to actually do it, to give an organ out of your body.

He was not your best mate. What would you do that? I have got to

know him very well since. I have five children, he has young

children as well. I was conscious you only needed one kidney. I

didn't know much about it, but I could see it would make a

difference to his life if it succeeded. 90 percent of these

living donor transplants actually work. It is a small sacrifice.

is not, it is amazing. circumstances came together, you

have to understand that. For a small sacrifice, to see someone

else being given life and his children having that advantage, I

just thought it was a good idea. must have crossed your mind, what

if someone from your flesh and blood, one of your family needed a

kidney and you had given it to someone outside of your family.

have five children said they could... It is an unlikely

eventuality. It was just a moment in your life where you think, you

can do something here. The process is fascinating. It was a voyage of

discovery for me. Obviously, it was bitterly disappointing,

particularly from shames perspective because everyone was so

optimistic about it and it was disappointing that it failed. But I

it would do it again tomorrow because it is an amazing life

experience. During the majority of the programme tonight there has

been a lot of tension and we have been teasing it out with each other

as to how much are we prepared to compromise and what I'll be

prepared to do as human beings in terms of understanding on not

understanding someone else. What does it actually mean when someone

is as gracious as that? What does it feel like one another a human

being does that? Myself and my bike for talking about this last night,

tried to find the superlatives for the words. You just cannot find

them. Compassion, empathy, it is not enough. It is incredible. My

situation was there was a potential for a transplant with my sister,

but that fell through. Joe just stepped onto the plate, totally out

of the blue. It was incredible, truly, truly incredible. It felt

very special. It is important to say, and an air people think of

this enormous thing and it does take a few months out of your life,

but whenever I was out there in London, I met some amazing people.

The 40-year-old man who donated a kidney to his two-year-old daughter

and within two days she was walking out of the unit. So, it is not

unique. At 20-year-old man donated to his 50-year-old father. The

people who are living donors, they all wore on air for the rest of

their lives because they have saved someone's life. Initially, the

transplant was successful. What has happened after that. It was

successful for a number of days and then after a few days one of the

doctors came in and my results started to taper off. After that,

it was a process of investigating what the problem was. That went on

for a period of time. They opened me up and realised things were

wrong. We did have an incredible high, an incredible bond. But then

there was a low. Not just for myself, but for Joe in terms of the

sacrifice he had made. What happens now? Listen, I am a strong

character. I am back at work. I do diocese at home three nights a week.

It is a better family life. In one sense, there has been and

improvement, but hopefully I am looking to have another transplant.

So you need someone else to donate? Yes, possibly, or get a transplant

to the donor system. Did you feel a sense of loss when it didn't work?

Of course. It is a deeper experience. Nothing can be Perec

for -- nothing can prepare you for it. You just have to roll with the

punches. We had beds beside each other in hospital. That is what you

they -- that is what they do with donor and recipient. Every day he

was getting better. He passed urine for the first time in six years.

You noticed he does not drink water. That is because his fluid

circulates in his bloodstream. That is why he has to have dialysis. The

thing is, if everyone went on the donor register, it would be

fantastic. We were in the unit for 10 days and we saw about 10 people

just get a call at the last minute. Some family had decided to allow

their teenage sons organs to be used. People were given life. The

kidneys were coming in in Marks & Spencer freezer boxes. 10 % of

people die on the waiting list. Those who have received a

transplant left within a few days full of life. It really has been a

life-changing experience. It has clearly profoundly affected you.

has. I am adjusting to whip. Of course, it would be different if it

had worked. Can I do so. You so much for coming onto the programme