Episode 7 The Nolan Show


Episode 7

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The Prime Minister wants it, it's already planned for Scotland,

:00:03.:00:06.

England and Wales, so is Northern Ireland going to have gay marriage

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too? Sinn Fein wants a referendum on

:00:08.:00:17.
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whether we have a united Ireland. 5th you make me feel like my son is

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something I should be ashamed of or shoes should be cast out.

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Sinn Fein won so refer later -- referendum on whether we have a

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united Ireland. DUP tells Sinn Fein, be careful what you wish for. Is

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the main Unionist party about to press the button on a border poll?

:00:36.:00:38.

And he's the singing sensation that's making country cool again,

:00:38.:00:41.

Nathan Carter will be performing live in this studio tonight.

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He picks out her partner by taking her hand, steps out on the

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Hello there, how are you doing? Will come along. I know you at home

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will want to get involved in this programme tonight. There's so much

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to talk about, here's how you can So, gay marriage is likely

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everywhere else in the UK but here in Northern Ireland the DUP says no.

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David Cameron wants to introduce gay marriage to England and Wales

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before the next general election, although the Prime Minister is

:02:07.:02:14.

facing opposition from within his own party. I am in favour of gay

:02:14.:02:18.

marriage because I am a massive support of marriage and I don't

:02:18.:02:22.

want gay people to be excluded from a great institution.

:02:22.:02:25.

Last October Assembly members here rejected a proposal to allow same-

:02:25.:02:28.

sex couples to marry. In order to get a sense of some of the issues

:02:29.:02:38.
:02:39.:02:45.

involved, I invited some people to dinner. Take a look at this. I am

:02:45.:02:52.

the mother of a gay person, a son that I love very much and I hope to

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soften people's outlook on gay people. I helped Raine Presbyterian

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ministers and from tonight I hope to present a conservative Christian

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point of view that also is open, his gracious and is laughing.

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and I have been living with my partner for four years and I am the

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director of the Rainbow Project. am a Baptist pastor. I believe in

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what the Bible says about marriage and should be between Amman and a

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woman. Welcome it took a dinner. Good to see you. I want to try and

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delve into what we really think here in Northern Ireland. As a

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minister, I have to go with God's word. That is simply because it

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works. Do you believe in religious freedoms for religions? Then why do

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why have to live by your religious morals? Just before you answer, can

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I add very simply, you were telling us what God says should be in

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marriage. Court told us not to judge, what happens to that?

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don't have to follow any one religious group, Christians have

:04:12.:04:16.

these values because fortunately or unfortunately, whether you like it

:04:16.:04:22.

or not, we are in a Christian country. You make me feel that my

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son is something I should be ashamed of, or that should be cast

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doubt. He is an outcast from church, he is not allowed to go into a

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church, more or less, you don't want him there, you would not marry

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him there. I wish people would come into my church, I wish homosexuals

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and murderers would come into my church. This is the problem, I

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heard you say gay or murder, it rolls off the tongue. The

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simplicity of use in that language, you may not be making a comparison

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but many people have made that comparison without any

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consideration to the damage it causes people in my community, the

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damage it causes people of faith. You wonder why people don't come

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into your church, it is because you they feel you view them as bad as

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murderers. Don't ridicule his fate. He is following God's word. He is

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taking direction from the Bible where he chooses. First of all, I

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have never approached anybody with a pointed figure and said you're

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going to help. You don't need to do that, that is what you're saying!

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The Church has been the cause of heard too many people. In the LG BT

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Community there is no question about that but I suppose I would

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say sometimes you cannot have everything you want. How can they

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have their relationship blessed by God if they are Christian, how can

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they do it? To be consistent I would say they cannot enjoy God's

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full blessing because of the nature of how we are created. The groups

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that oppose it have no problem for people without faith to have civil

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marriages or people who were are promiscuous or swingers or people

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who have been married before, they are allowed to abuse and treat

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marriage in whatever way they want. That is not true though. But they

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are. But they are not! They are able to abuse marriage and form and

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leave marriages as they choose within the law. In terms of the

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state but not in terms of the Church. Do you have children?

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daughters. What if one of those came in and told you she was a

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lesbian. I would throw my arms around her and Hug her, if she said

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that she wanted to enter contractual law, and as it --

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covenanted relationship with a woman I would say, let us talk

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about that. I cannot court marriage by letters talk about the

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relationship you would cause. wouldn't marry her in your church?

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I couldn't. Could you tell her that? Oh, yes. Of course. She would

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understand as I am sure everybody would understand, the difference

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between love that is utterly committed to the welfare of someone

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and a recognition that you just cannot do something that you

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believe is for that person's harm. It all comes down to the authority

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that, first of all I have put myself under, it is the authority

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of the Bible. If I say something different to what is in the Bible

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then God is going to come looking for me. I still feel that a

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mother's love is unconditional but a minister's is not. He will

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baptise children in church but he will not stand by them, no matter

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what they grow up. This world is changing and we have to change in

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every other aspect so why not give a wee bit. Obviously a lot of you

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at home have a view on this. You can see the numbers coming up on

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your screen as to how to take part tonight. A lot of people in the

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audience want to do so as well. We are being told by many politicians

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across different parties that we want to Northern Ireland that is

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tolerant of each other and we share and understand each other and you

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are telling gay people, your party, no way can they get married, no

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matter what the desirous of their dreams are. We want a tolerant and

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inclusive society but there are no grounds to redefine a marriage.

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Marriage is defined and has been in law as a union between man and a

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woman there is no need to redefine marriage to have a tolerant society.

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Other DUP not opposed to the gay marriage? They spoke out in terms

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of a civil partnerships. They argued, was there any to redefine

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marriage? There was no need to redefine marriage whatsoever. In

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terms of equality and inclusion there is no need to redefine

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marriage. Is the DUP now saying it is in favour? The DUP stand by his

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position which is that they oppose civil partnerships. So you suppose

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people having a civil partnership and you oppose people having

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marriage. If you redefine marriage, a look at

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what happens in other countries where they have redefined marriage

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and changed the definition of marriage. You can no longer have a

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husband and wife, they have to be redefined. They have to be termed

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parties to marriage. In Brazil when they redefined marriage, people

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came and said I want to partners and under this redefinition I want

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to parties to myself, so they took three people into a marriage. Then

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you can no longer have a mother and a father. This is an important

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point. On the birth certificates in Spain, when they have redefined

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marriage, there is no longer a mother and father on a birth

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certificate, there is progenitor and progenitor be. I do what my

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children answering the door and having someone asked if there

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:10:57.:11:00.

progenitor is in. John O'Doherty. Jonathan says he

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wants a society that is equal but the DUP has actively opposed every

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move towards equality towards us in the past. They opposed in Northern

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Ireland and Westminster. They opposed goods, facilities and

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services legislation. You voted against them in Westminster. That

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is not true. You voted against them. You voted against these moves

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towards equality. You don't believe LG BT people should be protected in

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their jobs and you don't support civil partnerships. Civil

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partnerships and equal manage -- marriage are not the same thing, if

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they were they would be called the same thing. In Northern Ireland you

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can't have a civil partnership in a faith then you according to the DUP.

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The only part of the UK where that They are the biggest party in at

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Northern Ireland. They have a massive line of support. If you

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believe in democracy, every time they stand in front of the

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electorate, they get the vote. Rights cannot be dictated by the

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majority. We are talking about a can -- and a community there has

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been continually discriminated against. When women were not seen

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as equal, marriage was a very different think. It was about meant

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being able to ensure the paternity of their children. Gay marriage was

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never considered too discussed. want this to be a conversation, not

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a monologue. Until of 30 years ago, LGBT people were criminalised

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against. Let me take the issue of equality. Article 12 of the

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European law says it is not that an issue of equality because all of

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the rights in marriage but equally applicable in civil partnerships.

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But you don't believe in civil partnerships. The second point is

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it is a matter of human rights. This came before the United Nations.

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It is a matter of taking marriage, at redefining it, disallowing

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people to become a husband, this allowing people to become a wife.

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This idea of how things will work are irrelevant. We have an

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opportunity to define marriage the way we choose. We can choose to

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have husbands and wives, mothers and fathers. Yes, so. At the back.

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Jonathan, I don't know about you, by living Northern Ireland. As a

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young gay man, I don't see why it I should not be allowed to marry

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another man. I am speaking, OK? APPLAUSE I have witnessed

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homophobia. But you and your party members, it is that people are

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:15:10.:15:10.

afraid to come out of their closet. Another thing, I'll DUP party for

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all? Which, all but gays? You don't have to support homophobia or

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bullying. It is not encouraged at all. Just because we don't accept

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:15:37.:15:39.

gay marriage, but that does not mean bullying. On that point, or

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when the nor was being changed in the UK to decriminalise

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homosexuality in Northern Ireland, the DUP submission N19 82, opposing

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moves to make homosexuality legal, I have it here. One of the things

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will party argued was this - the effect of the law as a restraint of

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beasts reality, incest and rape will be further reduced. Does the

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DUP still feel that is the position? I am not going down the

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road of talking about bestiality of trying to be derogatory to anybody.

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Was the DUP wrong to say homosexuality should be illegal?

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Yes or no? Or do I am saying to you is marriages between a man and a

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woman. The Democratic Unionist Party will not allow the law to

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change in Northern Ireland. We have you have also support for that.

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you're going to dock the question, 31 at years later? You will not

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believe me to redefine marriage. I believe marriage is between a man

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and a woman, children should have the right to a mother and my father.

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We are known each other a while. When I ask a question, it is not

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bullying because you do not like the question. APPLAUSE So, when the

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leader of your party, Peter Robinson, says, he wants to include

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everybody, has your party changed? 31 years later, does your party

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stand over the statement that the effect of the law, in terms of

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homosexuality being illegal as a restraint on bestiality, incest and

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rape, would be further reduced? I be clear with you? People have

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their own rights and religious beliefs, and people like myself

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have a Christian faith. There are other people in the Islamic

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community, the Jewish community, who share some of those principles

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:18:21.:18:30.

of howl marriage should be. Hello, serve. I am all for gay marriage in

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the eyes of the law, in the eyes of God, no. But what about the

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Christians and other people? They have got their faith, 2000 years

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old. You cannot change a 2,000- year-old to scripture. A marriage

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takes years and years. You are together, man and wife, but it

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takes years to perfect a marriage. I couldn't agree more. What we are

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calling for is the introduction of religious freedom, but the point

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that Jonathan was making about those faith groups opposing

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marriage, but they should be allowed to do so. No one should be

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forced. This is a slippery slope. You start off by saying no church,

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no minister, will be forced to do this, and then it goes to a

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European Court, and then a European role in. A people would never be

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:20:05.:20:06.

post it to do anything. Let us look at the issue of divorce - can any

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faith group be forced to marry any people divorced? No. Was it brought

:20:12.:20:22.
:20:22.:20:23.

a European Court? Yes. Patrick, a journalist. How do you think this

:20:23.:20:29.

position as Northern Ireland? looks like Northern Ireland is in

:20:29.:20:39.
:20:39.:20:40.

the dark here. You don't even believe in freedom of speech! The

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rest of the UK sees Northern Ireland as in the dark ages. In the

:20:45.:20:55.
:20:55.:20:55.

last year, let me talk about three issues... Would you let me finish?!

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I will cherish, he will speak. Three issues have come to the for

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about Northern Ireland. One, the riots. What image does that

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portray? The other is that many politicians, including you, and

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religious leaders, who spout homophobic bile, who likened

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homosexuality to bestiality and incest, and the third issue came

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about this morning. In England, we hear Northern Ireland has the

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highest suicide rate among young people. Look at the peak --

:21:36.:21:40.

problems in Northern Ireland. What a religious and political leaders

:21:40.:21:47.

are doing? They are selling no to love and marriage. There is a split

:21:47.:21:56.

in the Tory party about a marriage. It is not this call. The majority

:21:56.:22:02.

of Tory MPs support gay marriage. 7% of the UK, in the last opinion

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poll, said they did not want to legalise gay marriage. One million

:22:10.:22:14.

people on the streets of Paris to say it was a right to keep marriage

:22:14.:22:20.

between a man and a woman. It is right for children to have a father

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and a mother. Regarding trouble, you are living in the safest city

:22:27.:22:37.
:22:37.:22:39.

in the UK, sunshine! APPLAUSE David Smith. There are several issues

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here. It is really important for Christians to keep in mind in truth

:22:44.:22:54.
:22:54.:22:56.

and love. As the marriage Christian person, I find it offensive,

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because I do not think marriage is unequal. That suggests marriage is

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unequal. Man at -- marriage has never been gender-neutral. I

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condemn homophobia. The European Court cases last week found

:23:17.:23:23.

Christian belief in sex within marriage was unorthodox view.

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madam. I find it ironic that the DUP, or who are so British, are

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taking them anti-British stance and not aligning themselves with

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England, Scotland and Wales on this issue. They are meant to be

:23:40.:23:50.
:23:50.:23:51.

British! APPLAUSE Do you have a question? Yes, why take such an

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anti-British stance? When people in the UK were asked, they still

:23:57.:24:03.

believed in the definition of marriage. Seven out of 10 people

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what of the view that in civil partnerships, though all the rights

:24:08.:24:17.

and responsibilities. Let me tell you what this means. It means the

:24:17.:24:26.

church that will not marry a same- sex couple... Dot a church there or

:24:26.:24:32.

not marry would be denied the use. They would not be allowed to use

:24:32.:24:41.

public facilities, hire halls. A teacher that refused to at -- teach

:24:41.:24:51.
:24:51.:24:51.

basics would be deeps most -- would be dismissed. There is no such

:24:51.:24:57.

there's gay marriage, Steve. A worker, in his private time, said,

:24:57.:25:03.

but I don't believe we should redefine marriage. If you do want

:25:03.:25:08.

to pick up the phone, the numbers are coming up on your screens now.

:25:08.:25:13.

Juliane, you are in a lesbian relationship. What would you like

:25:13.:25:19.

to say? I appreciate your are Christian, but your values I want

:25:19.:25:24.

to question. The Bible you are quoting from promotes slavery. Yes,

:25:24.:25:29.

it does. It all so Warren's the death penalty for anyone that

:25:29.:25:38.

commits adultery. It promotes racism. And yet, you let these

:25:38.:25:48.
:25:48.:25:50.

people get married? Do you know what motivated the end of slavery?

:25:50.:25:58.

A Christian. William Wilberforce, or Christian values. So a Christian

:25:58.:26:08.

went against his own word? It is not acceptable. The institution of

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marriage has been longer than the Church. There has been there before

:26:13.:26:21.

the church and law. It is not broken. We are better dicky

:26:21.:26:31.
:26:31.:26:32.

marriage as it stands. -- we are better to keep a marriage. Equal

:26:32.:26:37.

marriage is not some new idea. The criminal Ladyship --

:26:37.:26:44.

decriminalisation of marriage happened. Jonathan, you started off

:26:44.:26:52.

saying the redefinition of the mother and the father in a gay

:26:52.:27:02.
:27:02.:27:05.

marriage. What is your stance on I believe children are best brought

:27:05.:27:12.

up by a mother and a father. People talk about homophobia and all of

:27:12.:27:18.

that nonsense but an I could tell you about a gay journalist who

:27:18.:27:23.

thinks we should not a change marriage. Christopher Biggins, a

:27:23.:27:28.

gay actor, believes that we should not redefine marriage. In terms of

:27:28.:27:35.

a doctor -- in terms of adoption... For every gay person are you can

:27:36.:27:40.

find that a pose is gay marriage, I can find 10 Christians who support

:27:40.:27:46.

gay marriage. In the Telegraph a gay man said that the child should

:27:46.:27:52.

best start with a mother and father and that is the way forward. Where

:27:52.:27:57.

does it say that? There are many, many heterosexual couples, all over

:27:57.:28:02.

the world, who bring up children and they turn into criminals,

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murderers, the definition of parenting is not Dhanjal sexuality.

:28:08.:28:12.

The definition of parenting is down to the person and how you look

:28:12.:28:16.

after your child. The most stable relationship for a child, and we

:28:16.:28:20.

want the best relationships for our children, particularly adopted

:28:20.:28:24.

children, or children in care, the best and most stable relationship

:28:24.:28:31.

for them is for a child to be brought up with a mother and father.

:28:32.:28:36.

Jonathan, thank you for coming into the studio tonight. Give them a

:28:36.:28:43.

round of applause. There are so many of you trying to get through

:28:43.:28:48.

to us tonight. The numbers are coming up on your screen. Who do we

:28:48.:28:55.

have on air? Adrian. Hello Adrian. I have two points. When God created

:28:55.:29:02.

the world he created Adam and Eve. He did not create too Adams or to

:29:02.:29:09.

eat. Do you understand? I do. two men marry and their adopted

:29:09.:29:12.

child, when that child goes to school, that child will be bullied,

:29:12.:29:18.

that child has no mother, he has no mud that love. Every child needs a

:29:18.:29:22.

mother's love. He needs a mother to cuddle. That child will be bullied

:29:22.:29:29.

at school and his mind will be warp. How do you feel a child, possibly

:29:29.:29:33.

listening to the show, or indeed a young gay man or woman, will be

:29:33.:29:37.

feeling tonight if they just want to be accepted into the society and

:29:37.:29:41.

you tell them that they cannot have they same rights as someone who is

:29:41.:29:45.

straight, do you think they will feel bullied? There is a law and it

:29:45.:29:50.

was made in the Ten Commandments. The law was made for this world. It

:29:50.:29:55.

was made thousands of years ago. There was nothing in the Ten

:29:55.:30:03.

Commandments about being gay. Aldham and Gomorrah. Thank you very

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much for your call. David, please be quick. I would like to say that

:30:08.:30:13.

I am with my to partner of 22 years and I would love to marry him in

:30:13.:30:16.

Belfast. The DUP and Christian people have no right to put their

:30:16.:30:21.

views on to me. They have every right if they are democratically

:30:21.:30:25.

elected! They have no right to discriminate against gay people.

:30:25.:30:28.

They have a right to their views and I respect their views but at

:30:28.:30:33.

the same time I won the same rights for my part as a man and a woman

:30:33.:30:36.

have. Let me read some texts that are coming year. Collins as they

:30:36.:30:42.

want got that and nothing will happen. While we change in the

:30:42.:30:47.

Lord? Adrian says children who grow up in gay relationships have warped

:30:47.:30:52.

minds. Another one says he wants the opportunity to get married.

:30:52.:30:56.

This one says that a while ago people at the same ideas about

:30:56.:31:00.

Inter racial marriages and times are changing and the DUP should

:31:00.:31:05.

change with it. On the texts tonight they are coming in on

:31:05.:31:08.

Twitter. We are continuing the discussion tonight and we will

:31:08.:31:11.

continue it on the radio programme tomorrow morning.

:31:11.:31:13.

Here's what still to come on tonight's programme:

:31:13.:31:18.

Is the DUP about to consent to a vote on a united Ireland?

:31:18.:31:20.

Now, make-ups, break-ups, cheating and heartache - the mainstay of

:31:20.:31:24.

country and western music. Often regarded as something of a guilty

:31:24.:31:29.

pleasure, one young man is doing his best to make it mainstream.

:31:29.:31:32.

He's packing out venues across Northern Ireland and is gathering a

:31:32.:31:37.

cult following among his peers. You have a hat for me, do you? I

:31:37.:31:47.
:31:47.:31:48.

will look lovely in theirs. -- lovely in this. He is getting a

:31:48.:31:52.

cult following. Do you want to read the rest of the autocue? Ladies and

:31:52.:32:02.
:32:02.:32:13.

gentlemen, Nathan Carter. Good evening. Clapp those hands.

:32:13.:32:20.

Have to dance down to the land of the blinds.

:32:20.:32:24.

Staring down the road I see headlights.

:32:24.:32:29.

I made it down the coast in 17 hours.

:32:29.:32:39.
:32:39.:32:42.

I'm hoping to see my baby tonight. Rock me mum I like a Wagon Wheel.

:32:42.:32:50.

Rock me mum a any way you feel. Yeah, rock me.

:32:50.:32:57.

Rock me, mum or, like a Wagon Wheel. Rock may like a southbound train.

:32:57.:33:07.
:33:07.:33:25.

I was running away. Born to be a fiddler in an all-time

:33:25.:33:26.

ring. My baby plays the guitar.

:33:26.:33:36.
:33:36.:33:50.

I play the banjo and. I am turning back. Rock may, momma,

:33:50.:33:55.

like a wagon a real. Rock me any way you feel.

:33:55.:34:01.

Rockliffe. Rock me like the rain.

:34:01.:34:11.
:34:11.:34:29.

Rockley like a southbound train. I was rocking to the south. He's

:34:29.:34:39.
:34:39.:34:52.

At least I will be freed. Rock my ear like a Wagon Wheel.

:34:52.:35:02.
:35:02.:35:02.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 76 seconds

:35:02.:36:18.

Rock me any way you feel. Four APPLAUSE.

:36:18.:36:25.

Good to see it. I was listening to that. It is really only on this

:36:26.:36:31.

show we can go from a gay marriage and now I am sitting in a pink hat

:36:31.:36:40.

talking to a country and western star. How does this happen? Your

:36:40.:36:45.

story is really intriguing. You are attracting so many people now have

:36:45.:36:51.

to the country and western singer. You were in your twenties. Yes, 22.

:36:51.:36:55.

What is it all about? I would not have thought it is cool, don't fall

:36:55.:37:00.

out with me here, I would not have thought it is cool and trendy for

:37:00.:37:05.

young people to like country music. It definitely wasn't when I have

:37:05.:37:09.

was growing up. I was involved in traditional music for many years. I

:37:09.:37:14.

played the accordion and of course my Nan who is originally and Warren.

:37:14.:37:22.

She used to take me along to see a lot of show bands. I saw all these

:37:22.:37:26.

old country and show bans and I'd thought I would love to do that one

:37:26.:37:30.

day but try and get more young people into it and get it a bit

:37:30.:37:35.

more cool, if you like? But it is difficult, is it difficult to make

:37:35.:37:41.

it caller? People talk about rap music and all of that, fair enough

:37:41.:37:45.

that your age but dance music, country and western? How are you

:37:45.:37:51.

doing it? I suppose I picked a couple of songs that would appeal

:37:51.:37:55.

to all generations. A lot of people have come to watch Giggs a young

:37:55.:37:59.

children of five and six to come with their parents and their

:37:59.:38:03.

grandparents and people my age are mad about dancing and people in the

:38:03.:38:07.

teenage years love jive and dancing. It is brilliant to see young people

:38:07.:38:12.

in the dance halls. I see it in the older crowd, the editor of this

:38:12.:38:16.

programme is a big fan. You definitely have that audience boxed

:38:16.:38:21.

off. You have the young audience, what is the ambition, what do you

:38:21.:38:25.

think you can do? We do a lot of dances and it is good to see dance

:38:25.:38:29.

halls full but I would love to going to concerts. We have

:38:29.:38:32.

experimented with some concerts recently and it was a very

:38:32.:38:36.

different age group. It was a great atmosphere and we have a run of

:38:36.:38:46.

concerts coming up and we will play our first gig in Belfast very soon.

:38:46.:38:51.

If it is good music, it is good music. Garth Brooks has done a

:38:51.:38:55.

massive amount as well as the Dixie chicks. I do not see why it cannot

:38:55.:39:03.

be done again and try and get everyone involved. I tell you what

:39:03.:39:09.

I really love about this story and you being on this programme tonight,

:39:09.:39:13.

we have been covering some pretty heavy current affairs issues on the

:39:13.:39:16.

radio programme and this television programme over many weeks. There

:39:16.:39:21.

are people that remind me that we have a lot to be positive about in

:39:21.:39:24.

Northern Ireland and we need to invest in our young people and we

:39:24.:39:27.

need to make young people think that if you have a dream or an

:39:27.:39:32.

ambition, do it, go for it. I am really pleased that you were in the

:39:32.:39:36.

studio tonight. Thank you for having me on and the thank you to

:39:36.:39:42.

the audience for making me feel so welcome. I really do hope that you

:39:42.:39:50.

are a big star in the future. Ladies and gentlemen, Nathan Carter.

:39:50.:39:55.

Thank you. Now, before we move on, here's a

:39:55.:40:05.
:40:05.:40:31.

quick reminder of how you can get Yesterday the DUP hinted that it

:40:31.:40:34.

may support a referendum on a united Ireland. It told Sinn Fein,

:40:34.:40:40.

bring it on, but stress it hasn't made a final decision.

:40:40.:40:46.

Let us discuss this. We have the DUP Minister Arlene Foster in the

:40:46.:40:51.

studio and the Sinn Fein MLA Alex Maskey. It was surprising what you

:40:51.:40:56.

said on the radio programme. Peter Robinson a week ago said something

:40:56.:41:01.

completely different. That is what you call discussion in a political

:41:01.:41:06.

party. That is a U-turn! Know it is not. This is a stunt from P Sinn

:41:06.:41:10.

Fein because they know full well people will not vote for a united

:41:10.:41:15.

Ireland so it is some wait for them to get their supporters some

:41:15.:41:19.

sustenance and they are putting is out in front of them and saying to

:41:19.:41:29.
:41:29.:41:33.

keep the faith when in actual fact We are not about preventing some

:41:33.:41:40.

kind of sauce -- false sustenance, because let us take it, and I would

:41:40.:41:45.

not take any vote for granted, but a party's growth has been steadily

:41:45.:41:52.

improving. We are winning people to the Republic of Ireland. So that a

:41:52.:42:02.
:42:02.:42:03.

united Ireland. What is she getting out of it. First of all, we have

:42:03.:42:13.
:42:13.:42:15.

begun a debate. So let. What are the benefits? Obviously, her party

:42:15.:42:25.
:42:25.:42:25.

are not against a united Ireland. It makes sense. We are a very small

:42:25.:42:32.

island. We are divided into macro. We have a duplicated health service,

:42:32.:42:42.
:42:42.:42:45.

economy. It is very interesting and knowledgeable that her party

:42:45.:42:53.

colleague is their -- working very constructively, doing a joint work

:42:53.:42:59.

which makes economic sense. It is about doing away with inefficiency

:42:59.:43:04.

and duplication, it is about making everybody's powder or Europe --

:43:04.:43:13.

your road work to the best effect for everybody. So you want to keep

:43:13.:43:18.

a united Health Service in a united Ireland? Let us have a discussion

:43:18.:43:23.

about what health service we want. You know the health service here is

:43:23.:43:30.

not up to standard in the way it should be. We don't agree that the

:43:30.:43:35.

health service in the south of Ireland is up to scratch. The DUP

:43:35.:43:44.

has proven... What is better, or the one in the south on the one up

:43:44.:43:54.
:43:54.:43:55.

here? You can take desperate -- different aspects of it. Certainly,

:43:55.:44:03.

half the problem... I spent my life trying to get you guys to answer a

:44:03.:44:09.

question, or all her love you! Which in your view has a better

:44:09.:44:16.

hole surface? You're asking the wrong question. I will give you an

:44:16.:44:24.

answer. We both health departments are doing is taking innovative

:44:24.:44:31.

decisions and initiative. Her own party colleague is proving that

:44:31.:44:41.

doing away with a duplication works for people. Same question to you -

:44:41.:44:50.

so the union. The union is better from a historical, political,

:44:51.:45:00.
:45:01.:45:01.

cultural and religious point of view. We are in a strong economy in

:45:01.:45:08.

the UK. If you look good unemployment statistics, we are

:45:09.:45:15.

7.9% - too high. And the Republic - a 15%. We are getting �10 billion

:45:15.:45:25.
:45:25.:45:26.

from Westminster every year. Yes, we are. You are not. Therein lies

:45:26.:45:34.

the big question - and fair play to Sammy Wilson, who has been

:45:34.:45:39.

challenging Britain to come clean about the figures. The �10 billion

:45:39.:45:44.

to speak about, almost 6 billion of that is not even come in the first

:45:44.:45:50.

instance. It goes off to fight the war in Afghanistan. Look at the

:45:50.:46:00.
:46:00.:46:00.

Act's. You know very well that defences and the national budget.

:46:00.:46:06.

What rubbish! Again, Sinn Fein have been shown to be economic

:46:06.:46:16.
:46:16.:46:21.

illiterate, yet again. The figures there I will cope to come

:46:21.:46:27.

directly... But the fact that Sammy Wilson and the British Treasury,

:46:27.:46:37.
:46:37.:46:42.

all the figures we walk Probes are entirely truthful stub. It was only

:46:42.:46:48.

a few months ago, when the cuts from Westminster would been imposed

:46:48.:46:52.

in Northern Ireland, the members of your party were telling us, telling

:46:52.:47:00.

me on the radio, on television, very little we can do, sorry!

:47:00.:47:03.

you rather we were in deep Republican ballot where the

:47:03.:47:12.

austerity is much, much worse? question was, we the people of

:47:12.:47:16.

Northern Ireland needed to see how strong local politics and

:47:16.:47:19.

devolution was in Northern Ireland, the response of your party is,

:47:19.:47:28.

their little we can do. It is up to me and others how we spend a grant.

:47:28.:47:35.

We are not powerless! We thought the Cup so we got more money, did

:47:35.:47:42.

we? We get money from the block grant. If you are seriously saying

:47:42.:47:46.

we would be better off with Dublin, I have to say, you're going down

:47:46.:47:52.

the same road as a Sinn Fein. Dublin does not have control of

:47:52.:47:56.

their own affairs - Germany controls at. That is not a place I

:47:57.:48:06.
:48:07.:48:10.

want to be. A Bros macro. What you think? The state was founded on the

:48:10.:48:15.

creation of the border in the first place. It has shipped a political

:48:15.:48:20.

parties, it ships how we vote, since the state was founded until

:48:20.:48:26.

last week. Clearly, the bear the matters to people. Let see how much

:48:26.:48:35.

it matters to how many people. If we made a decision had that the

:48:35.:48:40.

majority of people want to stay in the UK, if they want to have an

:48:40.:48:44.

All-Ireland state, we can make arrangements for that. It doesn't

:48:44.:48:50.

make sense to have a problem and pretended is not there. Young

:48:50.:48:59.

fellow in the grey jumper. As a young voter, at the minute, this

:48:59.:49:09.
:49:09.:49:10.

really doesn't bother me. We are waiting for riots to clear. Why not

:49:10.:49:17.

let us not worry about what's happening now? None of those things

:49:17.:49:24.

are exclusive. We are working full tilt with the Good Friday Agreement.

:49:24.:49:29.

I suggest people get a copy with it because it is a very complex

:49:29.:49:37.

document. Republicans agreed with it, but at the end of the day, that

:49:37.:49:42.

provides for though fact we worked together now or in a power-sharing

:49:42.:49:52.

government. We share power on the basis of equality. We work within

:49:52.:49:57.

the current constitutional status quo, but we have the right to

:49:57.:50:06.

propose and discuss a border vote. We can do it better across the

:50:06.:50:15.

island. Can I know some of the detail of this? When this border

:50:15.:50:23.

poll happens, Good Friday Agreement says that, if there happens, if

:50:23.:50:28.

this happens, Good Friday Agreement says what you're doing is measuring

:50:28.:50:35.

the people of Northern Ireland. Do you accept that or you think they

:50:35.:50:39.

should be a poll in the south of Ireland as well, and all the

:50:39.:50:49.
:50:49.:50:50.

numbers are added up? The Good Friday Agreement is legally binding.

:50:50.:50:56.

The people voted across the island for the Good Friday Agreement. The

:50:56.:51:04.

majority voted for it. Now, the Good Friday Agreement provides for

:51:04.:51:14.

this. The Good Friday Agreement provides for a poll, and the

:51:14.:51:23.

majority of the people decided they wanted Pol, their discussions will

:51:23.:51:28.

begin, and the British and Irish government will have that. Die in a

:51:28.:51:35.

checked shirt. Just taking into perspective the current economic

:51:35.:51:40.

situation, if a poll was to take place, how much would it cost and

:51:40.:51:50.
:51:50.:51:52.

how could be justified? I think she asked Sinn Fein. We need to be very

:51:52.:51:56.

clear about what I said yesterday. It is fantasy politics from Sinn

:51:56.:52:02.

Fein Foster up a be careful for what you wish for, I said, because

:52:02.:52:09.

we could call their bluff her. We are very confident in our unionism,

:52:09.:52:15.

and we are not going away. You can assure you like for a united

:52:15.:52:25.
:52:25.:52:27.

Ireland, it ain't going to happen! APPLAUSE. You are, of girls,

:52:27.:52:34.

entitled to your opinion. At some point, there will be a border poll.

:52:34.:52:44.
:52:44.:52:46.

That is inevitable. Look at the demographics. I don't know what is

:52:46.:52:51.

in the minds of every citizen, but I want to give them an opportunity.

:52:51.:53:01.
:53:01.:53:02.

Michael wants to speak to you. accuse Sinn Fein of wealth

:53:02.:53:11.

indulging in Sinn Fein fantasy politics. But a 5 billion deficit,

:53:11.:53:17.

is that this success? The Northern Ireland TLC is bankrupt, not Tony

:53:17.:53:25.

economically, but politically. Why not thinking of new ways forward?

:53:25.:53:33.

My goodness... This gentleman is obviously a republican. But I am a

:53:33.:53:38.

unionist. I believe it is right for the people of Northern Ireland,

:53:38.:53:48.
:53:48.:53:51.

they will be better off by staying within the UK. I am still here.

:53:51.:54:01.

Anyway, the reality is whether it is 10 billion or 5 billion, no

:54:01.:54:05.

country or business can sustain that. Let's look at what will

:54:05.:54:15.
:54:15.:54:22.

happen. Being is on the phone. British government to allow this

:54:22.:54:29.

piece of fantasy been on a border poll, and that turns out a response

:54:29.:54:35.

that the vast majority of the citizens of this country, could

:54:35.:54:43.

your party feel they know the mind and could work? And if you do, how

:54:43.:54:53.
:54:53.:54:57.

do you intend to pay? First of all, we are working together. Were you

:54:57.:55:03.

may not always get it right, but we upset the Good Friday Agreement and

:55:03.:55:08.

a border poll. Or I am I St Ewe, look at the Good Friday Agreement

:55:08.:55:16.

in its entirety. We are talking as if this was a practical discussion

:55:16.:55:21.

about the economy and health. The reality is that if Dublin was Dubai,

:55:21.:55:27.

you would still not want a united Ireland. You are speaking out over

:55:27.:55:33.

an ideological unionism. And if Britain was the greatest country in

:55:33.:55:43.
:55:43.:55:46.

the world,... That is why I want self-determination. It Dublin was

:55:46.:55:56.

Dubai, you would buy into it? said he would accept the result of

:55:56.:56:06.
:56:06.:56:07.

that poll. Would you? Yes, of course! But it will not happen. If

:56:07.:56:13.

it happens, of course I will accepted. Where is your party

:56:13.:56:19.

tonight on the position? The same place where we were when I spoke to

:56:19.:56:24.

you yesterday morning. We are simply saying that if Sinn Fein

:56:24.:56:27.

wants to involve them fantasy politics, let us do with that

:56:27.:56:35.

because we won stability. Couple of minutes left. I think Sinn Fein

:56:35.:56:41.

have shot themselves in the third. This is their own -- the wrong time

:56:41.:56:51.
:56:51.:56:57.

for anybody. At the frontier. listened yesterday, and she said it

:56:57.:57:02.

is up to Britain to decide. I thought the people of Northern

:57:02.:57:05.

Ireland should have the right to decide for themselves, not an

:57:05.:57:15.
:57:15.:57:20.

English politician. She has to call it when there is evidence. I want

:57:20.:57:30.
:57:30.:57:31.

to squeeze a couple more people in. Why would you want a united Ireland

:57:31.:57:39.

when people in Belfast cost the economy 12 million over a period of

:57:39.:57:49.
:57:49.:57:52.

three months it? Or I am not asking be able to vote for a united

:57:52.:58:02.
:58:02.:58:03.

Ireland! What we are suggesting is we want to see a border poll within

:58:03.:58:08.

the lifetime of the next Assembly, but of people talk about fantasy

:58:08.:58:14.

politics, there will not be power- sharing, the DUP would not be in

:58:14.:58:24.

government with Sinn Fein. But they are. 2016 will come and go. And

:58:24.:58:29.

united Ireland or not be here. That's all we have time for tonight.

:58:29.:58:34.

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