Episode 10 The Nolan Show

Blood donation, no adoption and no marriage. Is Northern Ireland a cold

house for gay people? Are you afraid? I'm not afraid. What are you

worried about I'm a gay man. Are lads' mags and page three exploiting

women? Is this about freedom and it's a bit of harmless fun. And, I

have been speaking to the man reknowned for his campaigning around

the world. Our special guest tonight is Bob Geldof. Give it a rest, grow

up. How are you doing? We have a

cracking audience in here tonight. Thank you for joining us. We are on

BBC One. Last Friday the Health Minister, poot Edwin Poots, lost a

legal battle over the lifetime ban on gay men here giving blood. He is

fighting to prevent gay couples adopting children here. Stormont has

said no, the same-sex marriage laws passed in England and Wales.

Tonight, we are asking the question, is Northern Ireland a cold house for

gay people? The fact is, gay right battles here goes back decades.

People have to accept that minorities do have these rights. You

will legislate perversion and immorality.

For us this is about making a choice to have our rights, our civil

rights, acknowledged and respected and protected as any human being.

Edwin Poots is beside me here, he has described civil partnerships as

wrong, immoral and something which sticks in the throat. Basically,

it's unnatural in the first instance. It's abop in a be in the

second instance. Are you afraid? I'm not afraid. I'm a gay man.

It's a public safety issue. In the last 10 years we have seen an

increase in HIV, the problem hasn't gone away.

There is children here waiting in the system to have families come

forward, but unfortunately we aren't allowed to go down that route. That

is just some of the time line. A cold house, Northern Ireland, for

gay people? Absolutely. Before you even look at the issue of marriage,

blood, there are key issues which are impacting on people here in

Northern Ireland. Our Assembly has yet to pass any measure, any law or

any change that would improve the lives of people here. We still see

homophobe in our streets, in the news, from politician, we have no no

protections at school. Northern Ireland has a huge way to ensure

equality for all. 15 to 20 years ago the statement may have been true.

Legislation has changed, public perception has changed. The church

has changed. It -- there has been a big change. There are discussions at

play about where the rights are now in the three debates. S campaigns

you are talking about, were they wrong? The church is a being withing

community. It is. It pre-dates my time. There has been a reflection on

that. The campaigns from the churches, they were wrong, were

they? We need to have a range of views. John has a different view of

where we have, we need to see where we can be tolerant and respectful of

two different views on the subject matter. Peter is right, it can take

away on the key issues. For hundreds of years they have been invisible.

We started to say we will not tolerate this the any more. We want

to live our lives. We had a huge response from the churches. We have

had huge responses from politicians in both positive and negative ways.

You are saying there has been no legislation passed pro-gay in

Northern Ireland? Yes. That is the democratic process. These parties

have huge mandates. People continue to back them. They are delivering

what the people want? Absolutely. Against what you want? The rights of

the minority. You don't have the will of the people? The rights of

the minority can't be decided by the majority. In so many places we have

had huge human rights violations and equality issues impacting on so many

communities. When we look at the Nazi concentration camps and the

thousands of people imprisoned because of their sexual orientation,

where do we draw the line? If you are sitting at home you will want to

scream at the TV, don't get on the phone. There are loads of ways to

get in touch with us tonight. : Let us go into the crowd. I find it

strange how the people in the Northern Ireland Assembly who are so

proud to be part of the UK, why is that they find it hard to accept

some of the laws embraced by the United Kingdom. It should not be

that England and Wales can have one law and Northern Ireland have its

separate law. We could put that question...

APPLAUSE I said this to a senior politician a

few days ago. If you look around this audience, if you look at the

break down of the Nolan Show and radio and TV loads of young people

break down of the Nolan Show and engaging in politics here on this

programme. We asked the Democratic Unionist Party to come in tonight.

We could have put that question to them. They didn't want to turn up or

engage with someone like you on this issue. When we ask them to come in

here on orange and green issues they usually come. Read into that what

you want. How would you answer that you want. How would you answer that

young man's question. There are three issues, marriage, blood and

adoption. On each of those there are different perspectives. Let us start

off with blood, this is the most recent. According to what the judge

has said, look the blood ban here in Northern Ireland is irrational? So

most countries in Europe have a blood ban. United States have blood

bans. You have France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, they have lifetime

blood bans, that is the common position across most of the world.

What we would be doing is something unusual. That is not portrayed in

the clips and trailers when you come to gay marriage. Let us stay with

gay blood. It doesn't come across on the way it's trailed on the BBC. We

have to go with the best available medical evidence. 2% increase risk.

That is not true. It's not a 2% risk. What is it? A percentage of a

million. A tiny percent of increased risk. We have to take our advice

from the best available medical advice. Professionals who spend

their time as independent people advising governments. Most of the

countries in Europe have that advice they have taken a different view.

Most of the countries in the world that dominant position does not come

through in the way it's portrayed. We are with the majority. What you

are saying to a young gay man or woman, doesn't need to be young,

their blood is not clean enough? There blood is so dirty we won't let

them donate to another human being that they want to help, is that what

you are saying? Dirty blood? Look at the medical evidence, in all those

other countries they have taken the view it's not safe. Lifetime ban.

Lifetime ban. The UK maintains a one-year ban to allow sufficient

screening. That ban is in place for one-year because of the dangers.

It's accepted across the medical practice and all the research there

is an increased level of risk. According to evidence quoted by the

judge in case being looked at, here in Northern Ireland, the increased

risk would be, 0.001 per million donations? What I'm saying to you is

that most countries... It's not 2%. 0.001 per million donations? If it's

clear-cut. That is a judge. I know the judges... I used to be a member

of court. Evidence quoted by the judge as part of his ruling? Why

have most other European countries maintained this ban?s these are

countries that accept same-sex marriage - They don't have the

evidence we have. There has been specific work done in the UK around

this. The question needs to be asked as well, Peter, why do we accept

donations from other parts of the UK? Northern Ireland has a much more

reduced level of HIV rate here anywhere else in the UK we will

happily accept that blood from other parts in the UK. Why do you think

that is happening? The minister refused to make the decision. It was

a power he wasn't able to make - Jeremy Hunt is the Health Secretary

for the UK. It's disappointing they accepted this change in other parts

of the UK and have not brought it through in Northern Ireland. Now, to

the audience. I was part of a lobby group within the PUP who

successfully lobbied our party to change it is policy on Saturday just

gone by. Our policy now is to support David Cameron's equal

marriage bill. I supported this, not despite my being a loyalist, because

I'm a loyalist. There are two principles, four principles of

loyalism, two of them support these kind of issues we are discussing

tonight. The second principle of loyalism, by the way, total civil

and religious liberties for all of Northern Ireland's citizens. The

third one is equality across all of the UK's countries. There is a

lifetime ban on gay men giving blood in the Irish Republic, do you not

think the law should be harmonised with the Irish Republic, north and

south? Yes I think the law should be harmonised I don't think there

should be a ban on gay men giving blood. Aagree with you, I think it's

insulting... You don't agree with me I haven't said anything is

insulting? Sorry in relation to the points you made about dirty blood. I

don't believe there should be discrimination against any section

of our community. I heard Peter talking about other European

countries. If European countries have prejudice laws let them change

it. We should not follow prejudice laws. What irrational and what the

judge found irrational is that Edwin Poots is grand standing on this

issue. Winking and nodding saying, we won't have any gay blood in our

system. Yet he is bringing it in from England. To be fair to the

minister, it is not what he found irrational. He found Edwin Poots to

be irrational because he was prepared to take blood from gay men

across the water and not prepared to take blood from gay men here. There

is blood coming in from England. Minister Poots is running away from

this issue. He was called by the Chair of the Health Economy on a

range of issues. He has refused to come to the Assembly or the

committee. He needs... He can't escape this issue. It's an equality

issue. He has statutory duties as a minister. He has to fulfill hes

those statutory duties and stop facilitating discrimination against

our LGBT community. It cannot go on. Just so that it's clear, the advice

that Minister Poots was given by the experts around him, we have asked

for that advice. We put in a Freedom of information request for that

advice. Nothing has been forthcoming. We will ask for it

again. What advice was Minister Poots actually given that made him

arrive at that decision, to stop gay men in this country giving blood?

Let's bring Lindsay Conway in, from the Presbyterian church. Is Northern

Ireland a cold place for gay people? I don't think so. I know the big

issues of marriage, blood donation and adoption is causing a rift

between the two communities. I think our church is a more welcoming than

ever before. In that sense of what we do in the whole line of pastoral

care, of supporting families. Within the Presbyterian church, we tackled

this back in 2006 with our pastoral guidelines. At least from our

denomination's point of view, we wanted to look at how we, as a

church, could relate better to the gay community. Moving forward, how

you can relate better to gay people. Do you still think that gay sex is a

sin? We stand by what the Bible says. Do you think gay sex is a

sin? A sin is something which we define as God's word, and that

anything that varies from God's word is a sin. Do you think being gay is

natural or unnatural? We recognise that sexual orientation is... Sexual

orientation is natural. We recognise within the Presbyterian Church that

there is sexual orientation. So am I right in drawing from that that you

feel that God has given a gay sexuality to gay people, he made

them that way? God makes money in his own image. The issue for the

churches and for Christian communities is how that relationship

is played out. That is what we have difficulties with. Is there anybody

in this audience that would support the Minister's decision on gay

people not being able to give blood? Gay men not being able to

give blood? Put your hand up. Is there anyone who would support gay

people not giving blood (xxx) there are two out of about 250 people. It

is interesting in itself. There has to be an acceptance that the recent

narrative is we are weird in Northern Ireland for saying that. On

all three issues we said that that is not the narrative you would get

if you read our newspapers or listen to our media. We sit with the

majority of countries. We sit with the majority of countries with a

lifetime ban and an adoption. It's self-selecting, it's not scientific

but it is skewed. NEETs the introductory section was skewed.

That was a history of a particular set of campaigns that was designed

to portray the church in a negative light. There has to be a realisation

that while the BBC in general do we not hear that the majority of

countries do not... We are hearing it now! You are not on the

sideline, you are sitting right beside me. Cut this sideline

nonsense, you are sitting there. You don't hear it on your show. You

don't hear it on the show? It's nonsense. We don't get those facts

coming from you, they come from the Independent. Can I have 100 quid for

every time you've been on my show? On the radio show? I think I've made

my point. Benjamin Cohen is the former Channel 4 journalist and

editor of the Pink News. What's your reading on this situation we have in

Northern Ireland? I would have paid again that these politicians who are

standing firm against gay marriage, they have huge mandates when they go

out to seek a vote. That is what devolution is all about. Totally.

Just behind me is Parliament. I was sitting in a public gallery during

the last vote for the Same Sex Marriage Bill. I was sitting there

with my boyfriend, we were celebrating afterwards, as we

realised that we were going to have the opportunity to get married. But

it was a very bittersweet celebration because the marriage in

the United Kingdom is being broken up by the fact my rights as a gay

man one thing in England and Wales and will very soon be the same in

Scotland, but they won't go over to another part of the UK. I won't have

the same rights if I go over to Northern Ireland. That is something

people are very sad about. A lot of our readers are not in Northern

Ireland, but those in London look at Northern Ireland and can't

understand how it is, in a sense, so backwards when it comes to these

issues. The Northern Ireland Minister has spent ?80,000 of

taxpayers' money fighting against gay rights in the courts, they have

been two high-profile legal cases. Red people will take exception to

you calling them backwards. They are entitled to their views. Of course

they are, but the evolution of equality and brides is we are moving

forward incredibly quickly over here in England and Wales. Scotland will

move soon. I was in Downing Street a few months ago, and David Cameron

said this country is the best place in Europe to be lesbian, gay,

bisexual or transgender -- 's gender, but he only meant England

and Wales, he didn't mean the UK. There's this huge inequality. The

concept of marriage will not mean the same thing. What you have to

respect, and I would back Stephen here, we are not a backward people.

There is such a thing as a vote. Our culture and people respect the gay

community. I've had gay people coming to my church. I can't marry

them because it goes against my belief fundamentally in the

teachings of the Bible. That does not make the homophobic. Nor does it

mean the blood donation issue that we have here is anything to do with

homophobia. You will allow gay people to give blood in England that

can be used in Northern Ireland. That is a decision made over there.

It is within Minister Poots remit to ban gay blood from England and he

hasn't done so. So we does Barnett hear from a man living here but he

doesn't ban it from England. That's a question he has to answer. I'm

speaking on behalf of the church. There is a certain risk, what was

it? I cannot speak, I'm speaking theologically, but if there is that

risk we have to assess that and know what it is. If people want to give

blood in Northern Ireland from the gay community, can we not just put a

question on to people outside the hospitals, do you want to receive

that, this has been given by gay people in the gay community? It's a

choice, they can take the risk. So when someone is on life support you

are going to ask them, do you want gay blood? When it comes to

marriage, the equal marriage we have here isn't forcing any churches to

perform Same Sex Marriage Bill stopped so if you didn't want to

perform it you wouldn't have to do. You are incorrect because there is a

legal case coming forward in England and Wales which is challenging the

right of the church to be able to say no to gay marriage. That doesn't

mean we are homophobic. I have had young people come into my church and

clinic who have been suicidal because they have been bullied. I

have counselled them and worked with them. I am not in any way against

young people who are going through suffering. But gay people can't have

the same rights as straight people is what you are saying. It's a

democratic society. People are speaking here as if every politician

in the North of Ireland do not support equal marriage, do not

support gay rights in terms of adoption and do not support gay

rights in terms of donation of blood. A significant number of

politicians in the assembly are pro-gay rights, and voted in the

assembly for those motions. On two occasions we brought motions. The

sexual orientation strategy is down to the office of first and Deputy

First Minister. Therefore, one, where is it? What is your leader

Martin McGuinness doing about it? To finish the point on the politicians,

because I will not want people to think that every single member of

the Stormont assembly does not support gay rights. A significant

number do. A significant enough number that the DUP used a petition

of concern because they were worried it would pass. The question in

relation... I'm glad you asked that question. Just this week in question

time, I asked Peter Robinson, where is the sexual orientation... Have

you picked up the phone to Martin? I have. I was sitting beside him when

I asked him the question. I'll tell you where it is. Sinn Fein ready

with the sexual orientation strategy. The DUP, to, a junior

minister Bell said it would be out by December will stop it still

isn't. Go ahead. It's all this prejudice against gays, it simply

because of who they sleep with. It's really no one's business who you

sleep with. What goes on in your bedroom is between you and who you

are with. It is just pathetic. It is bigger than that... Why try

and make it bigger than that? It is what it comes down to. Let me

suggest why. Some people would argue that there is an entitlement for a

society to protect the definition of marriage between a man and a woman.

There's a place for society to protect the position of traditional

values, family values. What is the appropriate best make-up for child

to be brought up in? Is it with a mum and a dad? In a loving, stable

home where the child is loved and cared for. I wouldn't care if that

is by a gay couple or a straight couple. It doesn't matter, as long

that child is loved. There's a difference between the

language of rights and the language of personal preferences. We are

sometimes confusing those. There is no right to give blood, there is no

right to adopt a child. It's in the best interest of the child and on

medical evidence. There's also not a right to marriage. Equality is in

the eye of the beholder. Who gets to define equality? The first bill of

rights there was was in the ten Commandments, thou shall not kill,

the right to life. But in the context of responsibilities and

relationships, churches get that, 40% of charities in Northern Ireland

are run on a Christian ethos. That is important. Rights on its own is

not... Loads of you are wanting to get up -- through. Go-ahead Rodney.

I want to ask the panel a question. If they needed a blood transfusion

and the only blood they could get would be from a gay person or if it

was for one of their children and it was from a gay person, would any of

them accept it to save their child's life or their own way? Would you

accept it? Would I know? I would have to accept it, yes. Given that

dilemma. Would you accept it, Peter? Absolutely. I made clear on this

show, I'm not saying I have an objection on the blood ban, I'm here

on the other couple of issues raising the issue that the evidence

ba is not out there. Go-ahead. You made the point that Northern Ireland

is in the majority in the norm in terms of other countries have the

staple stance on giving blood. Given the scientific evidence and the fact

there is such a low-risk and the National Aids Trust came out to say

they hope Northern Ireland would follow the stance we have a shortage

of blood in Northern Ireland why are we closing down another avenue where

people can be given blood given the fact that you would accept it

yourself if you had the option for a transfusion?

APPLAUSE I have to say, by the way, I am

minded to say it. I know you think I'm against you, he is not an

elected representative. He is not the person mandating the policy. The

Health Minister that is in charge of the policy won't come in, won't

engage with you. His party won't engage with you. He is not the

enemy. Everybody is entitled to their view. I am asking the question

as to why the evidence isn't put out there about where other countries

are. We need to have that. It's a sensible debate to have and look at

the real evidence. I think at times is portrayed as unusual and

backwards in an unhealthy way. It's not. It's useful in the context of

this debate to say we are with the majority on this one. Not that it

automatically make it is right but I don't think we should be portrayed

as weird owes. What we need is safe blood regardless of where it comes

from. There is risk, potentially risk in all blood, what we have to

do is test and screen. What you don't do is discriminate against one

section of the community. It's very simple. Would you be happy with the

UK law that discriminates, the one-year UK law? You are not happy

with the southern law? You asked me a question. Let her answer. What I

would be happy with is screening and testing for all blood. You wouldn't

actually accept the UK law? No. Let the experts deal with that. It's a

discussion we can continue after the show or on Twitter or on the radio

show tomorrow morning. Give our guests a round of applause. Thank

you. APPLAUSE

Here is what is still to come on the show tonight. Another, anything

wrong with page three or is it an outdated relic? That will be the

debate coming later. He is the man who stormed the charts with the

Boomtown Rats. # You better find a way out

# It's a rat trap # And you've been caught... #

He tried to feed the worldle of course with Live Aid he is are

respect around the world as a campaigner and activist. He suffered

heartache with the collapse of his marriage to Prenter Paula Yates. His

language is really strong. I did begin by asking his views on those

still involved in violence here in Northern Ireland. My view would be

the same as 99.9% of the people on thn island, give it a rest. Grow up.

Know, going around with that history on your back. Every single country

in the world will tell you it just isn't worth it. Just stop. The be

human. I get this that the right thing to say is that trouble-makers

won't win. It does bring you influence and clout, that is why

they are doing it, still to this day? No, I completely agree with

you? Terror is a useless weapon. If you are not terrorised, what? You

know? So, yeah, but your point is. When the gunman gives up the gun he

is suddenly a man of peace. What about the people who never had a

gun? You know, just put the guns down. Engage in the process as an

earlier generation of brave people did how else will it resolve itself?

You tell me? You want to start a pub brawl. That is all it will be. It

won't be a war. It will be a pub brawl. That is all it will be. It

brawl. It's not intellectual. It's not human. It's not... It is deeply

serious. What do you mean, it's not human? It's not human toll behave in

that manner towards each other or within your own communities not to

see the other person's point of view. Not to say, hold on I can live

with that, I can't live with that, can we talk about that. People in

Northern Ireland are fighting over territory, over emblems, symbols,

they don't want to forget, maybe they shouldn't? Honest to God, isn't

it it more important that your kids have a good education, that you have

a decent life, that going forward in the future, it can't be about

something as pro pros rouse as a flag. Do us a favour. It's an

accident that you were born in that part of the world with its own

peculiarities. You should be able to negotiate your way through them on a

daily basis. It gets tiresome things get to a fever pitch, you are just

waiting for it to explode. One way or another, long-term, what do you

think the answer is? Honest to God, what do you think the answer is?

More killing? More fighting? Or, put your flag up for a couple of days,

let the other guy have his flag up for a couple of days. Come on. I

feel very awkward talking about this because it's not my place to. Sure.

There will be people who say, he doesn't know what he's on about. You

are right, I don't live it. Give us your perspective from having seen

conflict around the world. There is a debate going on in Northern

Ireland as to how you devine a victim would you equate a bomber who

blows himself up as a victim of the Troubles as someone blown up by a

bomb standing in the street? Not in my world view. The I despise that

stuff. I despise it. What stuff? Nationalism, terrorism, killing

other people. Can you help me understand why? I don't think you

need help in understanding why killing another person for some

political end isn't loathsome. Cowardly, ultimately. The guys who

are killing, and the guys who are bombing, you must remove them from

the picture. It doesn't help in removing them that you vest so much

emotional interest in your symbols because it leads to the guys with

the bullets and the bombs. That is what it leads to. You are giving

emotional support. They are slightly emotionally unbalanced, clearly if

they think it's all right to kill a child. Kill another man, it doesn't

have to be a child. We just think child is better because they are

smaller, it's a better example, but kill another man. A 30-year-old man.

Why would you possibly do that over something that isn't not worth the

death of a human being. You are still going to be there. You will

still be with your neighbour. You will still have to get along. You

will have to do that when the smoke has cleared. Northern Ireland is

always going to have its unionist community. It always will. Whatever

happens to the policy, always will. You guys aren't going anywhere. You

have nowhere to go. You know. The nationalists they have somewhere to

go. The whole island becomes a whole country, or it doesn't it remains

Northern Ireland and the republic. I don't care. Whatever you want to do,

great, don't kill each other. Stop, please, hurting each other. Just

stop. That is do-able. That was proved with the peace agreement.

It's do-able. It requires great effort, but no effort was more amply

rewarded than that. There is so much passion in you, did you ever

consider being a politician? No, I'm not interested in power. Come on?

Says a man that set up businesses and rules every one of them? Yes.

That must have been a lust for power and success? Not at all. It was a

fear of poverty. Fear of poverty, that must come from somewhere? From

growing up-and-coming in and and big Old Vic torian house, dark, cold, my

mum was dead. Sister got married. The other one was... She was the

school swat, the nuns gave her tea, she stayed until late. I would come

in and make the fire and see what food was around and cook myself a

thing and listen to Radio Radio Le and read a book. There was no-one

there to make me do homework. I didn't feel like that,

retrospectively it was bad. I was lonely. A small little chap. I was

lonely. Did you have no friends around you? I had school mates. They

went home to mum and dad at teatime. We didn't have telly, didn't have a

phone or that and the other. I was embarrassed by that being a stupid

eight-year-old. Yeah. So when you got home there was was nothing. Ed

your mum there. Your mum died when you were seven? Yes. The last time

you saw her you were sitting on her knee? She was sitting in the bay

window with her mate. She said bedtime, I think. I jumped up on her

knee for a cuddle then off to bed. That is normal. That is what happens

with most kids doesn't it. The next day she was gone? Gone. Then in the

morning my dad came in and sat on the bed and he said, "I've got some

-- something terrible to say to you" I got a bit scared. I remember this

very well. Then he started crying. He said, "your mum's dead", I'd

never seen my father cry. And, that freaked me out. That's the thing

that freaked me out, like you know. I started crying because my father

was crying. It means the universe has shattered. This man, this big

man who does everything, he's crying. So, the surviving parent is

always to blame. Who else do you kick against? To blame for your

mother's death? To blame for everything. The whatever it is. The

loneliness, the poverty. I guess in interviews like this it gives people

like me an opportunity, nearly an excuse to delve into personal

territory, if it's too personal, push me away? Yes. You mentioned

loneliness in this interview on a number of occasions. How lonely must

it have been when the person who loved you walked away from you? Are

you talking about Paula? Yeah? Well I just went into meltdown. What do

you mean by "meltdown"? Umm... To the point where I thought it was

better not to exist. Where I thought better now to kill myself than to go

on. I didn't want to wake up another day like this. That was one morning.

And... Had you thought it through? Yeah. Being me I thought it through.

I had made... On a notebook I put - reasons to continue. Reasons not to.

Which took up a page. Reasons to continue, the children. But they

weren't enough. Figure that. I call my mate, Pat, and I said, "I can't

go on now." I thought heartbreak was a metaphor, a country and western

type metaphor. I didn't understand it was a physical thing that does

shrivel your heart. A physical pain. There was this great, great chasm

here and a sort of abyss of loneliness. A sort of universe of

pain. Oceans of loss. And, I was crying in my sleep. I'd wake up with

tears streaming down my face. And Pat just said, "you stay exactly

where you are", he came around and he just, you know, he gave me such a

telling off, that isn't the approved It was probably what I needed. Was

at the thought of betrayal? No, it wasn't. Was it the loss? Of Paula?

People have written about this, we just talked about my mum. I don't

have any sort of family growing up. Dad is a way, mum is dead, sister is

married and the other one is in school, so you bring yourself up

largely. Then you go off to a very unwelcoming world to try and make

your own way through it. Soon you find yourself, for no apparent

reason, in a rock 'n' roll band. It suddenly turns out you can write

songs. Why? I don't know. Suddenly I can.

# The whole day down. How did that happen? But before I

get to be a rock 'n' roll star I'm in London, I'm happening, I get a

record out. There's a party for us. And here's this unbelievably

beautiful girl. She comes up to you and she's talking and she is

seriously funny, bright, beautiful. You kind of go, hold on, I couldn't

get shagged a week ago in Dublin and here is this gorgeous thing! I

thought, I've just started this rock 'n' roll lock, I'm going to shagged

the planet here, it's boys stuff! It didn't turn out like that, it turned

out that she kept coming at me and I said, lock, OK, I can't do any

worse. So having very little confidence and yet with this

spectacular woman on your arm, it gave me all the confidence to allow

this lumpen piece of lead to soar. So we created our own family out of

nothing. We created our own family out of nothing and became very

locked into our own world, and then she goes. You are coming to Belfast

on Friday night. Why get the Boomtown Rats together again? It's a

gamble. What if you get back together it doesn't feel the same,

it's not the same? The memories. I didn't want to relive the memories,

I want to live now. So when I sang those songs, the same

anger was there. And when I did it last night, you know, I preannounce

it, like, who would have thought? The rage is at myself. The

disappointment that I genuinely thought is that our generation would

change things, certainly in Ireland. That's what The Boomtown Rats set

out to articulate. To come back nearly 40 years later and to

understand, yes, all generations fail, of course, but our

generation, more spectacularly than most, we let the government jack the

country again. How? So when I'm on that stage I feel ashamed that my

generation failed, angry at us and myself that we did. The songs are as

now as any moment. I wouldn't have changed a word if I'd written them

yesterday. So what can I do? Sing them!

He comes to Belfast on Friday. You can hear an extended version of that

interview. I sat with him for about an hour and a half, he'll be on the

radio show tomorrow morning. A longer version of that interview and

on the 5 Live show on Friday as well. Let's move on. Next up,

sell newspapers for years, but is sell newspapers for years, but is

that all coming to an end, because 20 universities across the water

have banned the Sun and the Daily Star as part of the boobs aren't

news campaign. You are a former glamour model, do you really think

this is in vogue? Do you really think that in the year 2013, women

should be selling themselves half naked in a newspaper? Of course.

Page 3 is a great thing, it's an institution. It's been going on for

47 years. I don't see any harm in it. It is light fun. What's the

problem? There's a lot of problems with it. It's not just about the

individual women at all, it's about the effect they have on society.

It's about the Sun and other newspapers like that, Nuts, they are

not in isolation, it's about how they affect society. They are

influential. It's the message they are giving across about, what are

women in society? You really think that Page 3 and Nuts magazine

changes society in a negative way? Definitely. That's ridiculous. Have

you been on the internet? Definitely. I'm not saying that Page

3 and lad's mags are in isolation, because that was the only reason

fine, Colm because you can sort that fine, Colm because you can sort that

out. But it is one way that women are repressed in society. I don't

want to be represented by women who are half naked. You don't. I do.

It's about society as a whole. But you are taking choice away from the

students on your campus who want to buy the Sun, the Daily Star and who

want to look at half naked women. Not at all. They can't buy it on

your campus. They don't have a choice. They've been removed. The

reason for that is until they take out these images of women. We've

removed them. The students union works, it is run by our members. Our

members have voted because they feel that is not how they should be

represented. They think it is misrepresenting them. It's a

democracy, it was voted on. It is not censorship for any of those

things. It was voted on democratically. We are doing what

the students want us to do. It is soft porn in family newspapers.

Making soft porn acceptable is just run-of-the-mill that's how you look

at women, yeah, women sell newspapers and the women aren't

worth any more than that. You cheapening yourself like that? 3

million women by the Sun. Surely it is up to the consumer to decide.

Women don't have to buy that newspaper. The women that I know

have got better things to worry about than Page 3 and Nuts

magazine. They don't care. If they don't like it they don't buy it. Go

ahead, sir. If they've got it, flaunt it. They choose to do it. If

they've got it flaunt it, respect for women goes up or down? Down. But

that's in your eyes. Not all of us can become doctors and lawyers, not

all of us can get to university. Everyone is different and people

have different situations. I was not able to go to college or

university. I applaud you for getting to that, I'm sure you are

going to go on to do great things. What's that got to do with it? I

chose to do glamour modelling because I was a single parent. It

gives people a great wage. Glamour modelling is a euphemism. Here's

what you chose to do. You chose to get your breasts out and sell them.

To call it glamour modelling, that's what you chose to do. Are you not

more than that? At the time, I made the decision. It took a long while

to make the decision but I decided, I was a teenage mother, my choices

were working in a supermarket on the minimum wage, putting my kids into

nursery full time, never seeing her really, or going on benefits. I

wanted something different, glamour modelling gave me really good money,

I didn't have to work so much, I could bring up my daughter. It's not

just about Page 3. Supermarket chains are also being put under

pressure to censor the lad's mags on the shelves. Andy Jones is with us

this evening. What do you make of this, that supermarkets are being

put under pressure, get rid of these lad's mags because they exploit

women? These magazines operate within the laws that are

democratically elected in the UK. There's nothing in these magazines

that is illegal. These magazines are often distributed in modesty bags,

so you can't see them unless you wish to anyway. They are often on

the third or fourth shelf in a newsagents. There's no restrictions

on videos of Rhianna gyrating or Miley Cyrus gyrating on MTV. There

are very limited restrictions on online pornography, where you can

see, surround sound, moving images of women creating degrading acts.

It's very interesting that we've got someone who is talking it as almost

a last resort, having to become a glamour model because she didn't

feel she had better options, and someone talking about women

degrading themselves on television. It's part of the huge package, all

of which is wrong. The Sun is the highest grossing newspaper in the

UK, and children can see that. That's not in a modesty bags. These

images aren't on the sides of buses bus shelters. These are images you

have two opt-in to see. To put it into context, 5 million people a day

by the Sun, 46% of those are women. To ban Page 3 into figures, around

100,000 people have signed the campaign. 50% of female MPs have

signed up to that. 20 universities have as well. To put those numbers

into context, 320,000 people have signed up to an anti-badger culling

campaign. Isn't it really sad we don't prioritise women's rights and

see women as equals? It's just women's bodies, it's not that one

week it is a guy and one week it is a woman. It's just women getting

their tapes out. The Sun criticises women for flashing themselves and

exposing themselves, it talks about them in really degrading ways, but

it's fine for them to get their tits out in a newspaper. It's not for

individual groups to say what is empowering for women. You can find

empowerment in different ways. Just because somebody finds it offensive

that somebody finds it empowering to show their naked body, they may find

that much more empowering than getting a degree or having a more

mainstream job. Why do you think there are no half naked men in

newspapers? Thereof. You are missing the point. If you walk into WH Smith

tomorrow or any other leading newspaper seller, you will see half

naked men on the front cover various magazines. They all seem to be

catering to mend though, don't they? Amy, what do you think? I completely

agree with Chantel. I find it really degrading. I can't buy those

newspapers because of the Page 3 girl. I skipped that page. The guy

at the back. Everybody has got an opinion, but I think it's up to the

woman. If she wants to go and make a bit of money then it's up to her.

Would you apply the same thesis to prostitution? Probably, yes. It's

her body. People don't have to read it. This guy here. I think it's a

step backward. I wonder how far this is going to go. What about swimwear,

is that going to be done away with? There are a lot of models doing nude

poses as well. I don't really think it's that big an issue and I don't

think it ruins society at all. It's not a matter of modesty, it's about

being there for some titillation, literally! What about when people go

on foreign holidays, it's a natural way to be. What's a natural way to

be? They go topless or whatever. Do you? There's nobody looking at me,

like yourself. I can say that I have the biggest breast in this studio,

let me tell you! In Holland, where they have a more open society...

Another glamour model now. You mentioned depression, campaigns such

as this are regression the original feminist moving. They are stripping

women of the right to express their sexuality freely and openly. It's

nonsensical. Go-ahead. You're talking about it as an empowering

thing. We are not asking men to get their pecs out or buns out for the

girls? What is wrong with men liking to see that Women are being reduced

to tits and cars. You can look online to women 360 on a website.

Going against that sun healthy. It They are not interested in your

mind. They are interested in parties of your body. Of course not. In the

context of imagery you can't have a conversation... There is just a

reason why I've come up here. You have your hand up and wanted to give

your opinion. What is it? I'm with the girls on this. At the end of the

day the Sun is what it is. You are going to buy the Sun because you

want a sneaky peak on the bus. You have a wee schoolgirl beside you. We

know ladies and gentlemen why I really came up here, don't we? Stand

up. This guy before the show, somebody actually asked is there

anybody in this studio who cannot stand the radio show and the TV

show. What did you say? Me. I want you to talk about this guy all night

long on Twitter. Do you hear me. All night long. Say good night to

everybody. Night guys. Thank you for your company. Night, night

everybody. APPLAUSE