Browse content similar to Episode 10. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Blood donation, no adoption and no marriage. Is Northern Ireland a cold | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
house for gay people? Are you afraid? I'm not afraid. What are you | :00:18. | :00:24. | |
worried about I'm a gay man. Are lads' mags and page three exploiting | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
women? Is this about freedom and it's a bit of harmless fun. And, I | :00:30. | :00:32. | |
have been speaking to the man reknowned for his campaigning around | :00:33. | :00:39. | |
the world. Our special guest tonight is Bob Geldof. Give it a rest, grow | :00:40. | :00:46. | |
up. How are you doing? We have a | :00:47. | :01:16. | |
cracking audience in here tonight. Thank you for joining us. We are on | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
BBC One. Last Friday the Health Minister, poot Edwin Poots, lost a | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
legal battle over the lifetime ban on gay men here giving blood. He is | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
fighting to prevent gay couples adopting children here. Stormont has | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
said no, the same-sex marriage laws passed in England and Wales. | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
Tonight, we are asking the question, is Northern Ireland a cold house for | :01:39. | :01:43. | |
gay people? The fact is, gay right battles here goes back decades. | :01:44. | :01:56. | |
People have to accept that minorities do have these rights. You | :01:57. | :02:04. | |
will legislate perversion and immorality. | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
For us this is about making a choice to have our rights, our civil | :02:11. | :02:17. | |
rights, acknowledged and respected and protected as any human being. | :02:18. | :02:25. | |
Edwin Poots is beside me here, he has described civil partnerships as | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
wrong, immoral and something which sticks in the throat. Basically, | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
it's unnatural in the first instance. It's abop in a be in the | :02:33. | :02:39. | |
second instance. Are you afraid? I'm not afraid. I'm a gay man. | :02:40. | :02:58. | |
It's a public safety issue. In the last 10 years we have seen an | :02:59. | :03:05. | |
increase in HIV, the problem hasn't gone away. | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
There is children here waiting in the system to have families come | :03:11. | :03:18. | |
forward, but unfortunately we aren't allowed to go down that route. That | :03:19. | :03:26. | |
is just some of the time line. A cold house, Northern Ireland, for | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
gay people? Absolutely. Before you even look at the issue of marriage, | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
blood, there are key issues which are impacting on people here in | :03:36. | :03:37. | |
Northern Ireland. Our Assembly has yet to pass any measure, any law or | :03:38. | :03:44. | |
any change that would improve the lives of people here. We still see | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
homophobe in our streets, in the news, from politician, we have no no | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
protections at school. Northern Ireland has a huge way to ensure | :03:55. | :04:02. | |
equality for all. 15 to 20 years ago the statement may have been true. | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
Legislation has changed, public perception has changed. The church | :04:08. | :04:14. | |
has changed. It -- there has been a big change. There are discussions at | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
play about where the rights are now in the three debates. S campaigns | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
you are talking about, were they wrong? The church is a being withing | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
community. It is. It pre-dates my time. There has been a reflection on | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
that. The campaigns from the churches, they were wrong, were | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
they? We need to have a range of views. John has a different view of | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
where we have, we need to see where we can be tolerant and respectful of | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
two different views on the subject matter. Peter is right, it can take | :04:47. | :04:54. | |
away on the key issues. For hundreds of years they have been invisible. | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
We started to say we will not tolerate this the any more. We want | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
to live our lives. We had a huge response from the churches. We have | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
had huge responses from politicians in both positive and negative ways. | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
You are saying there has been no legislation passed pro-gay in | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
Northern Ireland? Yes. That is the democratic process. These parties | :05:17. | :05:18. | |
have huge mandates. People continue to back them. They are delivering | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
what the people want? Absolutely. Against what you want? The rights of | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
the minority. You don't have the will of the people? The rights of | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
the minority can't be decided by the majority. In so many places we have | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
had huge human rights violations and equality issues impacting on so many | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
communities. When we look at the Nazi concentration camps and the | :05:44. | :05:50. | |
thousands of people imprisoned because of their sexual orientation, | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
where do we draw the line? If you are sitting at home you will want to | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
scream at the TV, don't get on the phone. There are loads of ways to | :05:59. | :06:00. | |
get in touch with us tonight. : Let us go into the crowd. I find it | :06:01. | :06:30. | |
strange how the people in the Northern Ireland Assembly who are so | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
proud to be part of the UK, why is that they find it hard to accept | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
some of the laws embraced by the United Kingdom. It should not be | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
that England and Wales can have one law and Northern Ireland have its | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
separate law. We could put that question... | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
APPLAUSE I said this to a senior politician a | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
few days ago. If you look around this audience, if you look at the | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
break down of the Nolan Show and radio and TV loads of young people | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
break down of the Nolan Show and engaging in politics here on this | :07:03. | :07:05. | |
programme. We asked the Democratic Unionist Party to come in tonight. | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
We could have put that question to them. They didn't want to turn up or | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
engage with someone like you on this issue. When we ask them to come in | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
here on orange and green issues they usually come. Read into that what | :07:19. | :07:20. | |
you want. How would you answer that you want. How would you answer that | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
young man's question. There are three issues, marriage, blood and | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
adoption. On each of those there are different perspectives. Let us start | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
off with blood, this is the most recent. According to what the judge | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
has said, look the blood ban here in Northern Ireland is irrational? So | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
most countries in Europe have a blood ban. United States have blood | :07:43. | :07:48. | |
bans. You have France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, they have lifetime | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
blood bans, that is the common position across most of the world. | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
What we would be doing is something unusual. That is not portrayed in | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
the clips and trailers when you come to gay marriage. Let us stay with | :08:02. | :08:08. | |
gay blood. It doesn't come across on the way it's trailed on the BBC. We | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
have to go with the best available medical evidence. 2% increase risk. | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
That is not true. It's not a 2% risk. What is it? A percentage of a | :08:20. | :08:25. | |
million. A tiny percent of increased risk. We have to take our advice | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
from the best available medical advice. Professionals who spend | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
their time as independent people advising governments. Most of the | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
countries in Europe have that advice they have taken a different view. | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
Most of the countries in the world that dominant position does not come | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
through in the way it's portrayed. We are with the majority. What you | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
are saying to a young gay man or woman, doesn't need to be young, | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
their blood is not clean enough? There blood is so dirty we won't let | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
them donate to another human being that they want to help, is that what | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
you are saying? Dirty blood? Look at the medical evidence, in all those | :09:05. | :09:06. | |
other countries they have taken the view it's not safe. Lifetime ban. | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
Lifetime ban. The UK maintains a one-year ban to allow sufficient | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
screening. That ban is in place for one-year because of the dangers. | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
It's accepted across the medical practice and all the research there | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
is an increased level of risk. According to evidence quoted by the | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
judge in case being looked at, here in Northern Ireland, the increased | :09:28. | :09:38. | |
risk would be, 0.001 per million donations? What I'm saying to you is | :09:39. | :09:49. | |
that most countries... It's not 2%. 0.001 per million donations? If it's | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
clear-cut. That is a judge. I know the judges... I used to be a member | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
of court. Evidence quoted by the judge as part of his ruling? Why | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
have most other European countries maintained this ban?s these are | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
countries that accept same-sex marriage - They don't have the | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
evidence we have. There has been specific work done in the UK around | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
this. The question needs to be asked as well, Peter, why do we accept | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
donations from other parts of the UK? Northern Ireland has a much more | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
reduced level of HIV rate here anywhere else in the UK we will | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
happily accept that blood from other parts in the UK. Why do you think | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
that is happening? The minister refused to make the decision. It was | :10:35. | :10:41. | |
a power he wasn't able to make - Jeremy Hunt is the Health Secretary | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
for the UK. It's disappointing they accepted this change in other parts | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
of the UK and have not brought it through in Northern Ireland. Now, to | :10:49. | :10:56. | |
the audience. I was part of a lobby group within the PUP who | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
successfully lobbied our party to change it is policy on Saturday just | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
gone by. Our policy now is to support David Cameron's equal | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
marriage bill. I supported this, not despite my being a loyalist, because | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
I'm a loyalist. There are two principles, four principles of | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
loyalism, two of them support these kind of issues we are discussing | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
tonight. The second principle of loyalism, by the way, total civil | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
and religious liberties for all of Northern Ireland's citizens. The | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
third one is equality across all of the UK's countries. There is a | :11:33. | :11:38. | |
lifetime ban on gay men giving blood in the Irish Republic, do you not | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
think the law should be harmonised with the Irish Republic, north and | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
south? Yes I think the law should be harmonised I don't think there | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
should be a ban on gay men giving blood. Aagree with you, I think it's | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
insulting... You don't agree with me I haven't said anything is | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
insulting? Sorry in relation to the points you made about dirty blood. I | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
don't believe there should be discrimination against any section | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
of our community. I heard Peter talking about other European | :12:10. | :12:11. | |
countries. If European countries have prejudice laws let them change | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
it. We should not follow prejudice laws. What irrational and what the | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
judge found irrational is that Edwin Poots is grand standing on this | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
issue. Winking and nodding saying, we won't have any gay blood in our | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
system. Yet he is bringing it in from England. To be fair to the | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
minister, it is not what he found irrational. He found Edwin Poots to | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
be irrational because he was prepared to take blood from gay men | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
across the water and not prepared to take blood from gay men here. There | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
is blood coming in from England. Minister Poots is running away from | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
this issue. He was called by the Chair of the Health Economy on a | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
range of issues. He has refused to come to the Assembly or the | :12:59. | :13:01. | |
committee. He needs... He can't escape this issue. It's an equality | :13:02. | :13:07. | |
issue. He has statutory duties as a minister. He has to fulfill hes | :13:08. | :13:14. | |
those statutory duties and stop facilitating discrimination against | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
our LGBT community. It cannot go on. Just so that it's clear, the advice | :13:18. | :13:31. | |
that Minister Poots was given by the experts around him, we have asked | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
for that advice. We put in a Freedom of information request for that | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
advice. Nothing has been forthcoming. We will ask for it | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
again. What advice was Minister Poots actually given that made him | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
arrive at that decision, to stop gay men in this country giving blood? | :13:50. | :13:56. | |
Let's bring Lindsay Conway in, from the Presbyterian church. Is Northern | :13:57. | :14:03. | |
Ireland a cold place for gay people? I don't think so. I know the big | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
issues of marriage, blood donation and adoption is causing a rift | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
between the two communities. I think our church is a more welcoming than | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
ever before. In that sense of what we do in the whole line of pastoral | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
care, of supporting families. Within the Presbyterian church, we tackled | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
this back in 2006 with our pastoral guidelines. At least from our | :14:31. | :14:33. | |
denomination's point of view, we wanted to look at how we, as a | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
church, could relate better to the gay community. Moving forward, how | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
you can relate better to gay people. Do you still think that gay sex is a | :14:44. | :14:51. | |
sin? We stand by what the Bible says. Do you think gay sex is a | :14:52. | :14:58. | |
sin? A sin is something which we define as God's word, and that | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
anything that varies from God's word is a sin. Do you think being gay is | :15:05. | :15:12. | |
natural or unnatural? We recognise that sexual orientation is... Sexual | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
orientation is natural. We recognise within the Presbyterian Church that | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
there is sexual orientation. So am I right in drawing from that that you | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
feel that God has given a gay sexuality to gay people, he made | :15:29. | :15:35. | |
them that way? God makes money in his own image. The issue for the | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
churches and for Christian communities is how that relationship | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
is played out. That is what we have difficulties with. Is there anybody | :15:47. | :15:55. | |
in this audience that would support the Minister's decision on gay | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
people not being able to give blood? Gay men not being able to | :15:59. | :16:05. | |
give blood? Put your hand up. Is there anyone who would support gay | :16:06. | :16:14. | |
people not giving blood (xxx) there are two out of about 250 people. It | :16:15. | :16:24. | |
is interesting in itself. There has to be an acceptance that the recent | :16:25. | :16:27. | |
narrative is we are weird in Northern Ireland for saying that. On | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
all three issues we said that that is not the narrative you would get | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
if you read our newspapers or listen to our media. We sit with the | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
majority of countries. We sit with the majority of countries with a | :16:43. | :16:51. | |
lifetime ban and an adoption. It's self-selecting, it's not scientific | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
but it is skewed. NEETs the introductory section was skewed. | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
That was a history of a particular set of campaigns that was designed | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
to portray the church in a negative light. There has to be a realisation | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
that while the BBC in general do we not hear that the majority of | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
countries do not... We are hearing it now! You are not on the | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
sideline, you are sitting right beside me. Cut this sideline | :17:19. | :17:25. | |
nonsense, you are sitting there. You don't hear it on your show. You | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
don't hear it on the show? It's nonsense. We don't get those facts | :17:31. | :17:38. | |
coming from you, they come from the Independent. Can I have 100 quid for | :17:39. | :17:45. | |
every time you've been on my show? On the radio show? I think I've made | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
my point. Benjamin Cohen is the former Channel 4 journalist and | :17:50. | :18:01. | |
editor of the Pink News. What's your reading on this situation we have in | :18:02. | :18:08. | |
Northern Ireland? I would have paid again that these politicians who are | :18:09. | :18:11. | |
standing firm against gay marriage, they have huge mandates when they go | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
out to seek a vote. That is what devolution is all about. Totally. | :18:16. | :18:22. | |
Just behind me is Parliament. I was sitting in a public gallery during | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
the last vote for the Same Sex Marriage Bill. I was sitting there | :18:29. | :18:31. | |
with my boyfriend, we were celebrating afterwards, as we | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
realised that we were going to have the opportunity to get married. But | :18:36. | :18:38. | |
it was a very bittersweet celebration because the marriage in | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
the United Kingdom is being broken up by the fact my rights as a gay | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
man one thing in England and Wales and will very soon be the same in | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
Scotland, but they won't go over to another part of the UK. I won't have | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
the same rights if I go over to Northern Ireland. That is something | :18:57. | :18:59. | |
people are very sad about. A lot of our readers are not in Northern | :19:00. | :19:07. | |
Ireland, but those in London look at Northern Ireland and can't | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
understand how it is, in a sense, so backwards when it comes to these | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
issues. The Northern Ireland Minister has spent ?80,000 of | :19:16. | :19:18. | |
taxpayers' money fighting against gay rights in the courts, they have | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
been two high-profile legal cases. Red people will take exception to | :19:25. | :19:30. | |
you calling them backwards. They are entitled to their views. Of course | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
they are, but the evolution of equality and brides is we are moving | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
forward incredibly quickly over here in England and Wales. Scotland will | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
move soon. I was in Downing Street a few months ago, and David Cameron | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
said this country is the best place in Europe to be lesbian, gay, | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
bisexual or transgender -- 's gender, but he only meant England | :19:52. | :19:57. | |
and Wales, he didn't mean the UK. There's this huge inequality. The | :19:58. | :20:00. | |
concept of marriage will not mean the same thing. What you have to | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
respect, and I would back Stephen here, we are not a backward people. | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
There is such a thing as a vote. Our culture and people respect the gay | :20:13. | :20:15. | |
community. I've had gay people coming to my church. I can't marry | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
them because it goes against my belief fundamentally in the | :20:20. | :20:22. | |
teachings of the Bible. That does not make the homophobic. Nor does it | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
mean the blood donation issue that we have here is anything to do with | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
homophobia. You will allow gay people to give blood in England that | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
can be used in Northern Ireland. That is a decision made over there. | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
It is within Minister Poots remit to ban gay blood from England and he | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
hasn't done so. So we does Barnett hear from a man living here but he | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
doesn't ban it from England. That's a question he has to answer. I'm | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
speaking on behalf of the church. There is a certain risk, what was | :20:58. | :21:07. | |
it? I cannot speak, I'm speaking theologically, but if there is that | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
risk we have to assess that and know what it is. If people want to give | :21:12. | :21:18. | |
blood in Northern Ireland from the gay community, can we not just put a | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
question on to people outside the hospitals, do you want to receive | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
that, this has been given by gay people in the gay community? It's a | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
choice, they can take the risk. So when someone is on life support you | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
are going to ask them, do you want gay blood? When it comes to | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
marriage, the equal marriage we have here isn't forcing any churches to | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
perform Same Sex Marriage Bill stopped so if you didn't want to | :21:45. | :21:47. | |
perform it you wouldn't have to do. You are incorrect because there is a | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
legal case coming forward in England and Wales which is challenging the | :21:52. | :21:58. | |
right of the church to be able to say no to gay marriage. That doesn't | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
mean we are homophobic. I have had young people come into my church and | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
clinic who have been suicidal because they have been bullied. I | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
have counselled them and worked with them. I am not in any way against | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
young people who are going through suffering. But gay people can't have | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
the same rights as straight people is what you are saying. It's a | :22:20. | :22:26. | |
democratic society. People are speaking here as if every politician | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
in the North of Ireland do not support equal marriage, do not | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
support gay rights in terms of adoption and do not support gay | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
rights in terms of donation of blood. A significant number of | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
politicians in the assembly are pro-gay rights, and voted in the | :22:44. | :22:52. | |
assembly for those motions. On two occasions we brought motions. The | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
sexual orientation strategy is down to the office of first and Deputy | :22:57. | :23:02. | |
First Minister. Therefore, one, where is it? What is your leader | :23:03. | :23:09. | |
Martin McGuinness doing about it? To finish the point on the politicians, | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
because I will not want people to think that every single member of | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
the Stormont assembly does not support gay rights. A significant | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
number do. A significant enough number that the DUP used a petition | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
of concern because they were worried it would pass. The question in | :23:25. | :23:32. | |
relation... I'm glad you asked that question. Just this week in question | :23:33. | :23:38. | |
time, I asked Peter Robinson, where is the sexual orientation... Have | :23:39. | :23:44. | |
you picked up the phone to Martin? I have. I was sitting beside him when | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
I asked him the question. I'll tell you where it is. Sinn Fein ready | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
with the sexual orientation strategy. The DUP, to, a junior | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
minister Bell said it would be out by December will stop it still | :23:59. | :24:09. | |
isn't. Go ahead. It's all this prejudice against gays, it simply | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
because of who they sleep with. It's really no one's business who you | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
sleep with. What goes on in your bedroom is between you and who you | :24:17. | :24:18. | |
are with. It is just pathetic. It is bigger than that... Why try | :24:19. | :24:35. | |
and make it bigger than that? It is what it comes down to. Let me | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
suggest why. Some people would argue that there is an entitlement for a | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
society to protect the definition of marriage between a man and a woman. | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
There's a place for society to protect the position of traditional | :24:52. | :24:58. | |
values, family values. What is the appropriate best make-up for child | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
to be brought up in? Is it with a mum and a dad? In a loving, stable | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
home where the child is loved and cared for. I wouldn't care if that | :25:09. | :25:11. | |
is by a gay couple or a straight couple. It doesn't matter, as long | :25:12. | :25:13. | |
that child is loved. There's a difference between the | :25:14. | :25:24. | |
language of rights and the language of personal preferences. We are | :25:25. | :25:31. | |
sometimes confusing those. There is no right to give blood, there is no | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
right to adopt a child. It's in the best interest of the child and on | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
medical evidence. There's also not a right to marriage. Equality is in | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
the eye of the beholder. Who gets to define equality? The first bill of | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
rights there was was in the ten Commandments, thou shall not kill, | :25:51. | :25:56. | |
the right to life. But in the context of responsibilities and | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
relationships, churches get that, 40% of charities in Northern Ireland | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
are run on a Christian ethos. That is important. Rights on its own is | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
not... Loads of you are wanting to get up -- through. Go-ahead Rodney. | :26:10. | :26:18. | |
I want to ask the panel a question. If they needed a blood transfusion | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
and the only blood they could get would be from a gay person or if it | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
was for one of their children and it was from a gay person, would any of | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
them accept it to save their child's life or their own way? Would you | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
accept it? Would I know? I would have to accept it, yes. Given that | :26:37. | :26:42. | |
dilemma. Would you accept it, Peter? Absolutely. I made clear on this | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
show, I'm not saying I have an objection on the blood ban, I'm here | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
on the other couple of issues raising the issue that the evidence | :26:51. | :26:57. | |
ba is not out there. Go-ahead. You made the point that Northern Ireland | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
is in the majority in the norm in terms of other countries have the | :27:03. | :27:08. | |
staple stance on giving blood. Given the scientific evidence and the fact | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
there is such a low-risk and the National Aids Trust came out to say | :27:14. | :27:16. | |
they hope Northern Ireland would follow the stance we have a shortage | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
of blood in Northern Ireland why are we closing down another avenue where | :27:23. | :27:25. | |
people can be given blood given the fact that you would accept it | :27:26. | :27:28. | |
yourself if you had the option for a transfusion? | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
APPLAUSE I have to say, by the way, I am | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
minded to say it. I know you think I'm against you, he is not an | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
elected representative. He is not the person mandating the policy. The | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
Health Minister that is in charge of the policy won't come in, won't | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
engage with you. His party won't engage with you. He is not the | :27:53. | :28:01. | |
enemy. Everybody is entitled to their view. I am asking the question | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
as to why the evidence isn't put out there about where other countries | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
are. We need to have that. It's a sensible debate to have and look at | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
the real evidence. I think at times is portrayed as unusual and | :28:14. | :28:16. | |
backwards in an unhealthy way. It's not. It's useful in the context of | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
this debate to say we are with the majority on this one. Not that it | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
automatically make it is right but I don't think we should be portrayed | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
as weird owes. What we need is safe blood regardless of where it comes | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
from. There is risk, potentially risk in all blood, what we have to | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
do is test and screen. What you don't do is discriminate against one | :28:41. | :28:43. | |
section of the community. It's very simple. Would you be happy with the | :28:44. | :28:52. | |
UK law that discriminates, the one-year UK law? You are not happy | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
with the southern law? You asked me a question. Let her answer. What I | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
would be happy with is screening and testing for all blood. You wouldn't | :29:03. | :29:08. | |
actually accept the UK law? No. Let the experts deal with that. It's a | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
discussion we can continue after the show or on Twitter or on the radio | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
show tomorrow morning. Give our guests a round of applause. Thank | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
you. APPLAUSE | :29:23. | :29:24. | |
Here is what is still to come on the show tonight. Another, anything | :29:25. | :29:30. | |
wrong with page three or is it an outdated relic? That will be the | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
debate coming later. He is the man who stormed the charts with the | :29:36. | :29:42. | |
Boomtown Rats. # You better find a way out | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
# It's a rat trap # And you've been caught... # | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
He tried to feed the worldle of course with Live Aid he is are | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
respect around the world as a campaigner and activist. He suffered | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
heartache with the collapse of his marriage to Prenter Paula Yates. His | :30:02. | :30:09. | |
language is really strong. I did begin by asking his views on those | :30:10. | :30:12. | |
still involved in violence here in Northern Ireland. My view would be | :30:13. | :30:19. | |
the same as 99.9% of the people on thn island, give it a rest. Grow up. | :30:20. | :30:27. | |
Know, going around with that history on your back. Every single country | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
in the world will tell you it just isn't worth it. Just stop. The be | :30:32. | :30:38. | |
human. I get this that the right thing to say is that trouble-makers | :30:39. | :30:50. | |
won't win. It does bring you influence and clout, that is why | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
they are doing it, still to this day? No, I completely agree with | :30:54. | :30:59. | |
you? Terror is a useless weapon. If you are not terrorised, what? You | :31:00. | :31:08. | |
know? So, yeah, but your point is. When the gunman gives up the gun he | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
is suddenly a man of peace. What about the people who never had a | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
gun? You know, just put the guns down. Engage in the process as an | :31:17. | :31:26. | |
earlier generation of brave people did how else will it resolve itself? | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
You tell me? You want to start a pub brawl. That is all it will be. It | :31:32. | :31:34. | |
won't be a war. It will be a pub brawl. That is all it will be. It | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
brawl. It's not intellectual. It's not human. It's not... It is deeply | :31:40. | :31:46. | |
serious. What do you mean, it's not human? It's not human toll behave in | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
that manner towards each other or within your own communities not to | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
see the other person's point of view. Not to say, hold on I can live | :31:55. | :31:57. | |
with that, I can't live with that, can we talk about that. People in | :31:58. | :32:00. | |
Northern Ireland are fighting over territory, over emblems, symbols, | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
they don't want to forget, maybe they shouldn't? Honest to God, isn't | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
it it more important that your kids have a good education, that you have | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
a decent life, that going forward in the future, it can't be about | :32:14. | :32:22. | |
something as pro pros rouse as a flag. Do us a favour. It's an | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
accident that you were born in that part of the world with its own | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
peculiarities. You should be able to negotiate your way through them on a | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
daily basis. It gets tiresome things get to a fever pitch, you are just | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
waiting for it to explode. One way or another, long-term, what do you | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
think the answer is? Honest to God, what do you think the answer is? | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
More killing? More fighting? Or, put your flag up for a couple of days, | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
let the other guy have his flag up for a couple of days. Come on. I | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
feel very awkward talking about this because it's not my place to. Sure. | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
There will be people who say, he doesn't know what he's on about. You | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
are right, I don't live it. Give us your perspective from having seen | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
conflict around the world. There is a debate going on in Northern | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
Ireland as to how you devine a victim would you equate a bomber who | :33:24. | :33:30. | |
blows himself up as a victim of the Troubles as someone blown up by a | :33:31. | :33:37. | |
bomb standing in the street? Not in my world view. The I despise that | :33:38. | :33:48. | |
stuff. I despise it. What stuff? Nationalism, terrorism, killing | :33:49. | :33:58. | |
other people. Can you help me understand why? I don't think you | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
need help in understanding why killing another person for some | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
political end isn't loathsome. Cowardly, ultimately. The guys who | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
are killing, and the guys who are bombing, you must remove them from | :34:15. | :34:20. | |
the picture. It doesn't help in removing them that you vest so much | :34:21. | :34:27. | |
emotional interest in your symbols because it leads to the guys with | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
the bullets and the bombs. That is what it leads to. You are giving | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
emotional support. They are slightly emotionally unbalanced, clearly if | :34:38. | :34:40. | |
they think it's all right to kill a child. Kill another man, it doesn't | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
have to be a child. We just think child is better because they are | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
smaller, it's a better example, but kill another man. A 30-year-old man. | :34:51. | :34:59. | |
Why would you possibly do that over something that isn't not worth the | :35:00. | :35:02. | |
death of a human being. You are still going to be there. You will | :35:03. | :35:06. | |
still be with your neighbour. You will still have to get along. You | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
will have to do that when the smoke has cleared. Northern Ireland is | :35:12. | :35:14. | |
always going to have its unionist community. It always will. Whatever | :35:15. | :35:20. | |
happens to the policy, always will. You guys aren't going anywhere. You | :35:21. | :35:34. | |
have nowhere to go. You know. The nationalists they have somewhere to | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
go. The whole island becomes a whole country, or it doesn't it remains | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
Northern Ireland and the republic. I don't care. Whatever you want to do, | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
great, don't kill each other. Stop, please, hurting each other. Just | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
stop. That is do-able. That was proved with the peace agreement. | :35:53. | :35:58. | |
It's do-able. It requires great effort, but no effort was more amply | :35:59. | :36:06. | |
rewarded than that. There is so much passion in you, did you ever | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
consider being a politician? No, I'm not interested in power. Come on? | :36:11. | :36:16. | |
Says a man that set up businesses and rules every one of them? Yes. | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
That must have been a lust for power and success? Not at all. It was a | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
fear of poverty. Fear of poverty, that must come from somewhere? From | :36:27. | :36:34. | |
growing up-and-coming in and and big Old Vic torian house, dark, cold, my | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
mum was dead. Sister got married. The other one was... She was the | :36:40. | :36:47. | |
school swat, the nuns gave her tea, she stayed until late. I would come | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
in and make the fire and see what food was around and cook myself a | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
thing and listen to Radio Radio Le and read a book. There was no-one | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
there to make me do homework. I didn't feel like that, | :37:01. | :37:09. | |
retrospectively it was bad. I was lonely. A small little chap. I was | :37:10. | :37:14. | |
lonely. Did you have no friends around you? I had school mates. They | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
went home to mum and dad at teatime. We didn't have telly, didn't have a | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
phone or that and the other. I was embarrassed by that being a stupid | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
eight-year-old. Yeah. So when you got home there was was nothing. Ed | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
your mum there. Your mum died when you were seven? Yes. The last time | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
you saw her you were sitting on her knee? She was sitting in the bay | :37:39. | :37:43. | |
window with her mate. She said bedtime, I think. I jumped up on her | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
knee for a cuddle then off to bed. That is normal. That is what happens | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
with most kids doesn't it. The next day she was gone? Gone. Then in the | :37:55. | :38:01. | |
morning my dad came in and sat on the bed and he said, "I've got some | :38:02. | :38:08. | |
-- something terrible to say to you" I got a bit scared. I remember this | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
very well. Then he started crying. He said, "your mum's dead", I'd | :38:15. | :38:20. | |
never seen my father cry. And, that freaked me out. That's the thing | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
that freaked me out, like you know. I started crying because my father | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
was crying. It means the universe has shattered. This man, this big | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
man who does everything, he's crying. So, the surviving parent is | :38:35. | :38:41. | |
always to blame. Who else do you kick against? To blame for your | :38:42. | :38:44. | |
mother's death? To blame for everything. The whatever it is. The | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
loneliness, the poverty. I guess in interviews like this it gives people | :38:50. | :38:55. | |
like me an opportunity, nearly an excuse to delve into personal | :38:56. | :38:58. | |
territory, if it's too personal, push me away? Yes. You mentioned | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
loneliness in this interview on a number of occasions. How lonely must | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
it have been when the person who loved you walked away from you? Are | :39:08. | :39:13. | |
you talking about Paula? Yeah? Well I just went into meltdown. What do | :39:14. | :39:23. | |
you mean by "meltdown"? Umm... To the point where I thought it was | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
better not to exist. Where I thought better now to kill myself than to go | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
on. I didn't want to wake up another day like this. That was one morning. | :39:33. | :39:40. | |
And... Had you thought it through? Yeah. Being me I thought it through. | :39:41. | :39:49. | |
I had made... On a notebook I put - reasons to continue. Reasons not to. | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
Which took up a page. Reasons to continue, the children. But they | :39:55. | :40:04. | |
weren't enough. Figure that. I call my mate, Pat, and I said, "I can't | :40:05. | :40:16. | |
go on now." I thought heartbreak was a metaphor, a country and western | :40:17. | :40:19. | |
type metaphor. I didn't understand it was a physical thing that does | :40:20. | :40:29. | |
shrivel your heart. A physical pain. There was this great, great chasm | :40:30. | :40:37. | |
here and a sort of abyss of loneliness. A sort of universe of | :40:38. | :40:46. | |
pain. Oceans of loss. And, I was crying in my sleep. I'd wake up with | :40:47. | :40:57. | |
tears streaming down my face. And Pat just said, "you stay exactly | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
where you are", he came around and he just, you know, he gave me such a | :41:03. | :41:08. | |
telling off, that isn't the approved It was probably what I needed. Was | :41:09. | :41:27. | |
at the thought of betrayal? No, it wasn't. Was it the loss? Of Paula? | :41:28. | :41:36. | |
People have written about this, we just talked about my mum. I don't | :41:37. | :41:40. | |
have any sort of family growing up. Dad is a way, mum is dead, sister is | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
married and the other one is in school, so you bring yourself up | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
largely. Then you go off to a very unwelcoming world to try and make | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
your own way through it. Soon you find yourself, for no apparent | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
reason, in a rock 'n' roll band. It suddenly turns out you can write | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
songs. Why? I don't know. Suddenly I can. | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
# The whole day down. How did that happen? But before I | :42:09. | :42:29. | |
get to be a rock 'n' roll star I'm in London, I'm happening, I get a | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
record out. There's a party for us. And here's this unbelievably | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
beautiful girl. She comes up to you and she's talking and she is | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
seriously funny, bright, beautiful. You kind of go, hold on, I couldn't | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
get shagged a week ago in Dublin and here is this gorgeous thing! I | :42:48. | :42:56. | |
thought, I've just started this rock 'n' roll lock, I'm going to shagged | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
the planet here, it's boys stuff! It didn't turn out like that, it turned | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
out that she kept coming at me and I said, lock, OK, I can't do any | :43:08. | :43:15. | |
worse. So having very little confidence and yet with this | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
spectacular woman on your arm, it gave me all the confidence to allow | :43:20. | :43:29. | |
this lumpen piece of lead to soar. So we created our own family out of | :43:30. | :43:38. | |
nothing. We created our own family out of nothing and became very | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
locked into our own world, and then she goes. You are coming to Belfast | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
on Friday night. Why get the Boomtown Rats together again? It's a | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
gamble. What if you get back together it doesn't feel the same, | :43:53. | :43:58. | |
it's not the same? The memories. I didn't want to relive the memories, | :43:59. | :43:59. | |
I want to live now. So when I sang those songs, the same | :44:00. | :44:21. | |
anger was there. And when I did it last night, you know, I preannounce | :44:22. | :44:27. | |
it, like, who would have thought? The rage is at myself. The | :44:28. | :44:37. | |
disappointment that I genuinely thought is that our generation would | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
change things, certainly in Ireland. That's what The Boomtown Rats set | :44:43. | :44:53. | |
out to articulate. To come back nearly 40 years later and to | :44:54. | :45:00. | |
understand, yes, all generations fail, of course, but our | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
generation, more spectacularly than most, we let the government jack the | :45:05. | :45:12. | |
country again. How? So when I'm on that stage I feel ashamed that my | :45:13. | :45:19. | |
generation failed, angry at us and myself that we did. The songs are as | :45:20. | :45:29. | |
now as any moment. I wouldn't have changed a word if I'd written them | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
yesterday. So what can I do? Sing them! | :45:35. | :45:41. | |
He comes to Belfast on Friday. You can hear an extended version of that | :45:42. | :45:52. | |
interview. I sat with him for about an hour and a half, he'll be on the | :45:53. | :45:56. | |
radio show tomorrow morning. A longer version of that interview and | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
on the 5 Live show on Friday as well. Let's move on. Next up, | :46:02. | :46:08. | |
sell newspapers for years, but is sell newspapers for years, but is | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
that all coming to an end, because 20 universities across the water | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
have banned the Sun and the Daily Star as part of the boobs aren't | :46:17. | :46:30. | |
news campaign. You are a former glamour model, do you really think | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
this is in vogue? Do you really think that in the year 2013, women | :46:35. | :46:37. | |
should be selling themselves half naked in a newspaper? Of course. | :46:38. | :46:44. | |
Page 3 is a great thing, it's an institution. It's been going on for | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
47 years. I don't see any harm in it. It is light fun. What's the | :46:50. | :46:56. | |
problem? There's a lot of problems with it. It's not just about the | :46:57. | :47:00. | |
individual women at all, it's about the effect they have on society. | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
It's about the Sun and other newspapers like that, Nuts, they are | :47:05. | :47:10. | |
not in isolation, it's about how they affect society. They are | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
influential. It's the message they are giving across about, what are | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
women in society? You really think that Page 3 and Nuts magazine | :47:20. | :47:27. | |
changes society in a negative way? Definitely. That's ridiculous. Have | :47:28. | :47:41. | |
you been on the internet? Definitely. I'm not saying that Page | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
3 and lad's mags are in isolation, because that was the only reason | :47:47. | :47:49. | |
fine, Colm because you can sort that fine, Colm because you can sort that | :47:50. | :47:55. | |
out. But it is one way that women are repressed in society. I don't | :47:56. | :47:58. | |
want to be represented by women who are half naked. You don't. I do. | :47:59. | :48:10. | |
It's about society as a whole. But you are taking choice away from the | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
students on your campus who want to buy the Sun, the Daily Star and who | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
want to look at half naked women. Not at all. They can't buy it on | :48:20. | :48:27. | |
your campus. They don't have a choice. They've been removed. The | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
reason for that is until they take out these images of women. We've | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
removed them. The students union works, it is run by our members. Our | :48:37. | :48:43. | |
members have voted because they feel that is not how they should be | :48:44. | :48:47. | |
represented. They think it is misrepresenting them. It's a | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
democracy, it was voted on. It is not censorship for any of those | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
things. It was voted on democratically. We are doing what | :48:56. | :49:00. | |
the students want us to do. It is soft porn in family newspapers. | :49:01. | :49:04. | |
Making soft porn acceptable is just run-of-the-mill that's how you look | :49:05. | :49:08. | |
at women, yeah, women sell newspapers and the women aren't | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
worth any more than that. You cheapening yourself like that? 3 | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
million women by the Sun. Surely it is up to the consumer to decide. | :49:18. | :49:21. | |
Women don't have to buy that newspaper. The women that I know | :49:22. | :49:24. | |
have got better things to worry about than Page 3 and Nuts | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
magazine. They don't care. If they don't like it they don't buy it. Go | :49:30. | :49:37. | |
ahead, sir. If they've got it, flaunt it. They choose to do it. If | :49:38. | :49:53. | |
they've got it flaunt it, respect for women goes up or down? Down. But | :49:54. | :49:59. | |
that's in your eyes. Not all of us can become doctors and lawyers, not | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
all of us can get to university. Everyone is different and people | :50:05. | :50:06. | |
have different situations. I was not able to go to college or | :50:07. | :50:10. | |
university. I applaud you for getting to that, I'm sure you are | :50:11. | :50:17. | |
going to go on to do great things. What's that got to do with it? I | :50:18. | :50:21. | |
chose to do glamour modelling because I was a single parent. It | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
gives people a great wage. Glamour modelling is a euphemism. Here's | :50:26. | :50:32. | |
what you chose to do. You chose to get your breasts out and sell them. | :50:33. | :50:37. | |
To call it glamour modelling, that's what you chose to do. Are you not | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
more than that? At the time, I made the decision. It took a long while | :50:43. | :50:48. | |
to make the decision but I decided, I was a teenage mother, my choices | :50:49. | :50:53. | |
were working in a supermarket on the minimum wage, putting my kids into | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
nursery full time, never seeing her really, or going on benefits. I | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
wanted something different, glamour modelling gave me really good money, | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
I didn't have to work so much, I could bring up my daughter. It's not | :51:07. | :51:11. | |
just about Page 3. Supermarket chains are also being put under | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
pressure to censor the lad's mags on the shelves. Andy Jones is with us | :51:16. | :51:22. | |
this evening. What do you make of this, that supermarkets are being | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
put under pressure, get rid of these lad's mags because they exploit | :51:27. | :51:33. | |
women? These magazines operate within the laws that are | :51:34. | :51:36. | |
democratically elected in the UK. There's nothing in these magazines | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
that is illegal. These magazines are often distributed in modesty bags, | :51:42. | :51:44. | |
so you can't see them unless you wish to anyway. They are often on | :51:45. | :51:48. | |
the third or fourth shelf in a newsagents. There's no restrictions | :51:49. | :51:56. | |
on videos of Rhianna gyrating or Miley Cyrus gyrating on MTV. There | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
are very limited restrictions on online pornography, where you can | :52:02. | :52:04. | |
see, surround sound, moving images of women creating degrading acts. | :52:05. | :52:12. | |
It's very interesting that we've got someone who is talking it as almost | :52:13. | :52:16. | |
a last resort, having to become a glamour model because she didn't | :52:17. | :52:19. | |
feel she had better options, and someone talking about women | :52:20. | :52:23. | |
degrading themselves on television. It's part of the huge package, all | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
of which is wrong. The Sun is the highest grossing newspaper in the | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
UK, and children can see that. That's not in a modesty bags. These | :52:33. | :52:38. | |
images aren't on the sides of buses bus shelters. These are images you | :52:39. | :52:42. | |
have two opt-in to see. To put it into context, 5 million people a day | :52:43. | :52:50. | |
by the Sun, 46% of those are women. To ban Page 3 into figures, around | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
100,000 people have signed the campaign. 50% of female MPs have | :52:56. | :53:04. | |
signed up to that. 20 universities have as well. To put those numbers | :53:05. | :53:13. | |
into context, 320,000 people have signed up to an anti-badger culling | :53:14. | :53:20. | |
campaign. Isn't it really sad we don't prioritise women's rights and | :53:21. | :53:23. | |
see women as equals? It's just women's bodies, it's not that one | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
week it is a guy and one week it is a woman. It's just women getting | :53:29. | :53:35. | |
their tapes out. The Sun criticises women for flashing themselves and | :53:36. | :53:38. | |
exposing themselves, it talks about them in really degrading ways, but | :53:39. | :53:47. | |
it's fine for them to get their tits out in a newspaper. It's not for | :53:48. | :53:55. | |
individual groups to say what is empowering for women. You can find | :53:56. | :53:59. | |
empowerment in different ways. Just because somebody finds it offensive | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
that somebody finds it empowering to show their naked body, they may find | :54:04. | :54:06. | |
that much more empowering than getting a degree or having a more | :54:07. | :54:11. | |
mainstream job. Why do you think there are no half naked men in | :54:12. | :54:17. | |
newspapers? Thereof. You are missing the point. If you walk into WH Smith | :54:18. | :54:22. | |
tomorrow or any other leading newspaper seller, you will see half | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
naked men on the front cover various magazines. They all seem to be | :54:27. | :54:37. | |
catering to mend though, don't they? Amy, what do you think? I completely | :54:38. | :54:47. | |
agree with Chantel. I find it really degrading. I can't buy those | :54:48. | :54:50. | |
newspapers because of the Page 3 girl. I skipped that page. The guy | :54:51. | :55:00. | |
at the back. Everybody has got an opinion, but I think it's up to the | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
woman. If she wants to go and make a bit of money then it's up to her. | :55:05. | :55:11. | |
Would you apply the same thesis to prostitution? Probably, yes. It's | :55:12. | :55:23. | |
her body. People don't have to read it. This guy here. I think it's a | :55:24. | :55:30. | |
step backward. I wonder how far this is going to go. What about swimwear, | :55:31. | :55:38. | |
is that going to be done away with? There are a lot of models doing nude | :55:39. | :55:47. | |
poses as well. I don't really think it's that big an issue and I don't | :55:48. | :55:53. | |
think it ruins society at all. It's not a matter of modesty, it's about | :55:54. | :55:56. | |
being there for some titillation, literally! What about when people go | :55:57. | :56:03. | |
on foreign holidays, it's a natural way to be. What's a natural way to | :56:04. | :56:11. | |
be? They go topless or whatever. Do you? There's nobody looking at me, | :56:12. | :56:27. | |
like yourself. I can say that I have the biggest breast in this studio, | :56:28. | :56:37. | |
let me tell you! In Holland, where they have a more open society... | :56:38. | :56:52. | |
Another glamour model now. You mentioned depression, campaigns such | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
as this are regression the original feminist moving. They are stripping | :56:57. | :57:02. | |
women of the right to express their sexuality freely and openly. It's | :57:03. | :57:09. | |
nonsensical. Go-ahead. You're talking about it as an empowering | :57:10. | :57:15. | |
thing. We are not asking men to get their pecs out or buns out for the | :57:16. | :57:22. | |
girls? What is wrong with men liking to see that Women are being reduced | :57:23. | :57:29. | |
to tits and cars. You can look online to women 360 on a website. | :57:30. | :57:40. | |
Going against that sun healthy. It They are not interested in your | :57:41. | :57:43. | |
mind. They are interested in parties of your body. Of course not. In the | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
context of imagery you can't have a conversation... There is just a | :57:50. | :57:55. | |
reason why I've come up here. You have your hand up and wanted to give | :57:56. | :57:59. | |
your opinion. What is it? I'm with the girls on this. At the end of the | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
day the Sun is what it is. You are going to buy the Sun because you | :58:04. | :58:10. | |
want a sneaky peak on the bus. You have a wee schoolgirl beside you. We | :58:11. | :58:13. | |
know ladies and gentlemen why I really came up here, don't we? Stand | :58:14. | :58:19. | |
up. This guy before the show, somebody actually asked is there | :58:20. | :58:22. | |
anybody in this studio who cannot stand the radio show and the TV | :58:23. | :58:29. | |
show. What did you say? Me. I want you to talk about this guy all night | :58:30. | :58:36. | |
long on Twitter. Do you hear me. All night long. Say good night to | :58:37. | :58:42. | |
everybody. Night guys. Thank you for your company. Night, night | :58:43. | :58:48. | |
everybody. APPLAUSE | :58:49. | :58:51. |