Episode 4 The Nolan Show

15 years ago today, Northern Ireland voted on the Good Friday

Agreement. Yes, 71.12 %.We have a specially commissioned opinion poll

to find a what people really think of the deal.

Go a marriage testing back by MPs in England and Wales, but will it

ever happen here, and should it? Living with Down's syndrome. We

meet an inspirational young lady. Ryan Dolan will be in the studio to

tell us what went wrong, and we Welcome along. Lots to talk about

tonight. No doubt plenty in the audience will be keen to join the

That is the housekeeping down. Let go into the programme. 15 years ago

Northern Ireland went to the polls to vote on the Good Friday

Agreement. It would ultimately pave the way for all our political

parties to share power at Stormont. Don't forget the controversy that

flowed from it. The commissioning, the PSNI, the early release of

paramilitary prisoners. At that time 71.2 % voted in favour. Howard

if people -- how do people feel about it 15 years on? Tonight we

will real -- we will reveal the results have appalled we have had

specially commissioned. But the is Gregory Campbell. Mitchel

McLoughlin. Mark Devenport. Before we start tonight, obviously we have

had so a very significant bit of news from London. A man believed to

be a soldier has been killed in an attack. Two suspects are under

arrest. David Cameron has said there are strong indications that

this is a terrorist incident and said the UK would never buckle in

the face of such attacks. Mitchel McLoughlin, let's get your reaction

first to that breaking news. I was not back in Belfast until 7 o'clock

Swire missed the news. I managed to catch the news in the studio just

before the programme. I am not clear as to the National Art -- the

nationality of the two individuals. Clearly it was a random attack and

they didn't know their victim. They may have seen him coming out of a

nearby military barracks. To that extent, I just wonder what is the

message that these two individuals were trying to deliver. I don't

think that there can be any chance of this making any difference to

British policy, whatever it was they were protesting about. We have

to extend our sympathies to his family. Gregory, there are some who

feel that that it was sickening attack works on some occasions.

Sympathy to the family, first of all. It seems to have been a

horrific attack. I saw the front pages of tomorrow's national papers

and it seemed to indicate a racial nature of the attack. Some of the

slogans that were shouted when the kilts the soldier. The Prime

Minister is going to have to get to grips tomorrow morning quickly and

take control of the situation. what can you do in a situation like

that? He needs to be seen to be in control. The one thing that we do

not need is racially motivated violence and United Kingdom. Thaw

we don't know that yet. They believe that it may be at terrorist

attack. Yes, they do. We have to see the people here are in custody.

We need to see where they're from, their reasoning for the attack. The

Prime Minister does need to assume control. Reports are coming out

literally over the last few hours, that for example it was heard one

of the perpetrators shouted God is great. Obviously there will be

people of that fear he will be just as horrified. As anything else.

Let's get our initial reaction to this in the story -- the initial

reaction in the studio tonight to that story. It is sickening to

think that we live in society with these kind of people, who are born

on hatred, Danny in here tripped, and live in a world that's doesn't

even exist. They never should have been let in in the first place.

Just behind due. Isn't it amazing how the killing of a soldier now in

England as getting such a reaction here when you think how many were

killed over 40 years of Troubles, that is being forgotten about

because of the Good Friday agreements. Innocent people who

were killed doing their job, going to work, that is just forgotten

about. Guys like Mitchel McLoughlin Gregory Campbell who are sitting up

and the big house with their big money, didn't care. The place has

gone to pot. 15 years on, and that is what we're talking about tonight.

Do you not think that the Good Friday Agreement has delivered for

you. Not at all.Why not? 15 years ago Gregory Campbell was kicking

David Trimble in the teeth for going for it. Why has your party of

a sudden after 15 years want to go in and sleep with Sinn Fein, and

you didn't want to do it 15 years ago? Answer that question. It is

quite straightforward the difference full -- the difference.

15 years ago they were armed, carrying out atrocities. What had

to happen after the Belfast Agreement, Sinn Fein and the

republican movement have to face up to their responsibilities, the fact

that they carried out these atrocities and they needed to stop

and support policemen rather than shooting them. It took a long time,

to the number of years. Eventually, they came to that point. That is

the difference. Back in 1992 were deposed a power-sharing in

principle? We weren't a poster power sharing with Democrats. The

difference is it wasn't Democrats but we have to sit down with the

1998. It was people still involved in violence and they had to stop

that. They have the support the courts, the police and the rule of

law. Are you saying that the deal you work in London now has done

nothing to do with the 1998 Deal? At the moment, it is all democrats.

Nobody in Stormont advocates violence, but the 1998 there were.

Mitchel McLoughlin, when did you become a Democrat? I was born a

Democrat. The idea of democratic principles seem to be a strange

idea to Unionists back when they had a one-party government. What we

have brought to the process is a commitment to ensure that there

will be a peaceful resolution of all the outstanding issues and we

have demonstrated that every year. It is an inclusive agreements.

reckon you're working the same deal by you didn't 1998? Yes. Nobody can

seriously argue that it is different. Gregory is entitled to

his opinion and I will leave it to common sense. In the year 2000 I

was a minister. I could do as I pleased, government will silos,

people not accountable to their executive colleagues. We didn't

even go to the executive because in the executive for people who were

not committed to peaceful means. That was the position then and it

does not the position now. Now G have to get agreement, get cross-

party consensus. Why did you collars of the minister back then?

Because there was a minister. -- I was a minister. People are

accountable now. I want us to take a look at some of the headlines out

of are appalled that we have specially commissioned. We asked

how you would vote now and the Good Friday Agreement. Let's have a look

at this. 50 % said they would vote yes. 11 % said they would vote No.

21 % would vote, and 18 % said they didn't know. If we do a bit of

number crunching on that. By our reckoning come if you exclude those

who would and boats, what is the survey saying? It would point to a

63 % projected vote in favour of the agreements. 15 % against, 22 %

saying they don't know. Mark Devenport, once I start to get into

this type of figures, I get lost. First of all, people will have seen

at the start of the show the returning officer and nights and 71

%. We should make the point there when the returning officer get that

figure, it was on the people who had voted. We have large people

because it is an opinion poll saying they will not vote. But this

is the reason why we have or percentages. When you strip out

some of those figures, you still have a healthy majority in favour

of the Good Friday Agreement. It is a hard one for people to address,

because a lot has happened and 15 years. You still have a healthy

majority, even if all the people who said they don't know where to

pile into the No camp, which wouldn't happen, the agreement

would still have gone through. Maybe even an entrance majority to

how it was. How would you vote if you're voting today? If the basis

on the boat was letting murderers out early, I would vote No. Sir,

you would still don't know today? The S, I would. Most people who did

so, did it on the basis of letting people out. There was no question

of the prisoners going back in! The sovereign government in London said

we have signed a deal to let them institutions collapsing three times.

All of that instability between 1998 and 2007. There has been an

improvement. Not as much as there needs to be. Politicians are not

having proper engagement because of the grassroots. They are trying to

keep us apart. They always seem to put the fear on us and we step

backwards. We should have a forum of ordinary people. All of these

politicians have hidden agendas. We do not. I know I give politicians a

hard time. But when you talk like that, they are part of our

community. Are we going to keep on demonising these people who

ultimately you elect? We can give them a hard time but do not demonise

them. We vote them in to represent our part of the community. Once they

are in, nothing. Are you not happy? No. I have gone to my

representatives. They say they will do things. They do the talk and not

the walk. I do not believe that what the politicians say they will do is

what they do. Things are far better now than they were 15 years ago.

Absolutely. We still have a long way to go. Have a look at this

statistic. We asked people if they were to vote now, what about the

breakdown between the two communities. 37% of Protestants said

they would vote yes. Look at the difference. 66% of Catholics. Now,

Gregory Campbell, why on earth are Catholics more confident, feel in a

better place about the Good Friday agreement, than Protestants? Are you

letting them down? What that is indicative of, and I had a look on

the way in, and your statistics appear to, according to the BBC,

appeared to have surveyed 1000 people 16 years and up. You were

asking them about issues related to 15 years ago. Work out the maths. So

somebody who was 16 was being asked what they thought of life when they

were one. They were asked if they were to vote tomorrow. They were

asked a number of things. Is anybody seriously saying that anybody under

20 or 21 would have a view about 15 years ago? You don't think they get

history at school. You don't think a 16-year-old is capable of acquiring

knowledge and thinking for themselves? You are not asking them

about history. You are asking them how they thought things had improved

or changed. Some of those people were not even at school. Your theory

is going to be to rubbish the opinion poll? No. I always treat

opinion polls with a note of caution. This is a difficult thing

for people to get their heads around. Not all 1000 people

interviewed were 16. Obviously, to put yourself in the shoes of

somebody 15 years ago, whether it be deadlock at Stormont etc, looking at

that statistic, it chimes in not only with some of the recent things

we have been hearing about alienation within the unionist

community, but also broadly, concerned about the direction in

which the peace process may be heading. You have to remember,

whilst there was no definitive breakdown of the votes put in the

box in 1998, all of the sense was that the Unionist vote was pretty

evenly balanced, and that the Catholic vote was much more in

favour of the agreement. When you look at the statistics, 66% of

Catholics voting yes, it does not really surprise me. There has always

been more enthusiasm on the national side for this process. Mitchel

McLaughlin, do you think Catholics are happier in this new Northern

Ireland? If that is the case, are you happy with that? I do think we

should acknowledge that the electorate is very intelligent. You

can take it that if they are given enough time to consider the

alternative to the assembly, would we go back to direct rule? Would be

go back to chaos? Why are Catholics more happy than Protestants?

Throughout the process, from the earliest, there was more expectation

and confidence reflected within the broad nationalist community than in

the Unionist community. We had a very lopsided, 1-sided system that

was called democratic body was manifestly not. It was replaced by

something which was even worse, direct rule. Now we have

power-sharing. Nationalists have the ability to obtain their

constitutional aims. That is an opinion poll. Some people may draw

out of that that you lot are pushing people from the Protestant community

too far, and that you should beware of them being unhappy. You should

care about them being unhappy. think there is a point in that that

needs to be examined. Let's step back slightly further to the

earliest days of the O'Neill administration. Very minor, very

modest reforms. Within his own party and within his own constituency,

that government was destroyed. Jump forward to David Trimble. People

should recognise that he knew his party was going to reverse it. He

knew he was going to be attacked. He brought people together. It was

reversed quickly. That was incredible bravery. It is my view

that he did deserve the Nobel Peace Prize because he knew what was going

to happen. It was not going to be Republicans who are going to pulling

down. Did not take you long to destroy him. He was gone anyway.

What is your field, from the Protestant community? I actually

believe that many people who voted for the Good Friday agreement 15

years ago had a vision of a new Northern Ireland. The 15 years since

the signing of that agreement I also believe that many events have taken

place. Most recently, in Belfast with the removal of the union flag.

That has certainly had an impact on how people would view the agreement.

Could the current political system be seen as lazy? There is no

opposition in government. You would think it would be better. Don't they

argue between themselves in North? No. If they had an opposition, they

would have somebody to argue with instead of arguing among each other.

What would an opposition stand for? You could have Sinn Fein... You

could vote for who you feel would be better for Northern Ireland itself.

The agreement was set up to create a quality. Many people are questioning

the Good Friday agreement. I did not quite hear the question.

agreement was set up to create equality for policing. The flag

protest and how it was handled by the police, people are now

questioning the agreement. I think there is some truth in that. I have

had -- heard many unionists say they are disillusioned. Flowed as I think

the opinion poll is, some of the figures are borne out in what you

see on the streets. People want to see more action, more quickly. They

want more delivery. That is the challenge for every political party.

Jude Collins, what do you take out of that opinion poll? Some Unionists

have a short memory. Republicans and Nationalists at the beginning made

the big concession. That the constitutional position would be

held by the six county Northern Ireland. That was a huge concession.

The Unionists are now finding that they have to adjust to their side of

the bargain, which is to create a state where people are equal. Where

people get jobs on the basis of their ability, housing in terms of

their needs. That is something that has gradually been worked out over

the years. Some people are finding that hard to take. Do you think

ordinary decent people from the Protestant community would find that

hard to take? Some Unionists find difficulty with that. They feel that

if Nationalists are Republicans are making gains, or getting equality,

in fact... Do you mean people like Gregory? No. I do not. I hope we

does not think that. Do you? No, I don't. I am amazed that Jude is

presenting it as he is. Many Unionists say to me on a weekly

basis that equality is a good idea. They would like some. They were

really like some. When you look at the public sector in terms of

recruitment, there is a vast imbalance in terms of who is being

recorded. It is not the Catholic community who are suffering.

Equality is a very good concept. Let's have more of it. Let's have

another look at another finding. We asked if Stormont was working well.

60% of Catholics said yes. 35% of Protestants said no. -- said

Stormont is working well. We see a more enthusiastic approach to the

process and to the Stormont system amongst the Catholic community than

the Protestant. That must be worrying to the Unionist parties?

One thing they have some solace from is that more Unionists think

Stormont is working well done badly. It is clear there is still a lot of

disenchantment, about 44% who think Stormont is not working very well or

not at all well. Maybe again we have heard from some people who say there

is talk about deadlock, people locking horns etc. David McCann,

what do you think about that last statistic? It is not surprising in

terms of the gaps between the communities. It is not really

surprise in. -- surprising. If you take a look at statistics, there are

a... Part of the problem is that what you are getting, and Gregory

was talking about silo government, is creating that system. What you

are getting is, people feel so disengaged with the process. Part of

the problem, from what I can see, is that people think Stormont isn't

addressing their concerns. For example, 80% want integrated

education. Yet 70% of kids go to integrated schools. That is where a

lot of the alienation is coming There are hundreds up people who

are alive because this agreement was signed. Would you vote Yes

tomorrow? His cassia Clyde, so we would. I want a better future for

my children. I am a grandfather and want those children to go about in

peace. More Protestants are disillusioned with Stormont and

Catholics. Why would that be? Good Friday Agreement, as we were

sold it, was a football pitch. You had the nationalists, the loyalists,

Unionists on that pitch. The referee's were the British

government and the Irish government. Loyalism was left Tokely behind.

There was a person... the Labour government left us behind. It was

more important to keep Sinn Fein on Gaud -- on board. Hello, Julie.

years on, are we in a better place? Yes we are. My father was a

Catholic taxi driver, my brothers were Protestant taxi drivers. 18

years back, women went to bed worrying about their husbands

coming home. Yes, we're in a better place, definitely. We need to move

on. We have to stop all this and move on. We're in a better place.

Julie, bite you very much. Please give our guests around of applause.

Here is what is still to come. The House of Commons has voted to allow

gay marriage in England and Wales, the word is that lead Northern

Ireland? You can pick up the phone, the number as at the bottom of the

screen. You can text us. You can tweak us during the show. At

11:30pm tonight, I get that phone and we continue the conversation on

Twitter. The beauty of this TV programme is tomorrow morning at 9

o'clock on Radio Ulster, we continue the discussion. Saturday

night was not a good night for Ryan Dolan. In front of an audience of

125 million he came last in the Eurovision Song contest. So, why do

we have a month -- had been here singing tonight? Was it really that

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 80 seconds

bad? Ladies and gentlemen, please MUSIC.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 80 seconds

I am dying to ask you this question, what is it like. The Eurovision is

a pile of... what is it like to come last? Shut up you lot! On the

night, I was really disappointed. The next day when I found out that

the sun was charting in 18 countries across Europe. What about

that! I APPLAUSE.

Was there a big blow when you got last? I did care, at the time.

Watching the boats coming out was really disheartening. The next day

one I got up, actually, that night I went out and we got over it

quickly. Just really happy that things are going well. Then you

have the euphoria of charting in so many countries. That said, yes. We

released the album, frequency, on Monday, and it is on the top 20

Ireland chart in arrogance, and all over Europe. Even Australia! Thank

you so much for coming. Give him a round of applause, ladies and

gentlemen. APPLAUSE.

I wonder how many of us, if we were being honest, would prejudge

someone who has Down's syndrome? Why do we actually just find out

what it is really like to live with his disability. This lady is a

charming young lady. She doesn't let much getting her way. Let's

give Barbara at big welcome! Good to see you. Have a seat. This

is your sister, Emma. Nice to meet you. Barbara, I guess what I want

to try to understand tonight, is what is it like living with Down's

syndrome? Living with Down's syndrome is amazing. In a way.

Because I grew up with it. I have experienced a lot of things. I

enjoy it. It is a good thing to have. Do you mean that?Yes. Why is

it a good thing to have? There are different ways... different parts

of dancers -- Brown syndrome. Having backed is like a learning

disability. That also helps because it has a good positive vibe to it.

I know that you are a confident young lady. I know that you are

driven. That is fantastic. That is why I know that I can probably ask

you some of the questions that I might otherwise be frightened off.

OK. When you are going up, do you get people judging you? Sometimes,

when I was young. Now, I have grown out of it. What type of things

happen to you when you were young? Things like when people are talking

to either my sister were my parents, without talking to me. So if I am

with my parents and a doctor my parents and said of talking to me.

Because they think you can answer for yourself. What did you send

yourself? In my head, I asked myself why when they should be

talking to me. What we do say to them? Why are you talking to them.

They should be talking to me instead of them.

Er you nervous? Know.The be nervous idea. A am not.You are

fantastically confident. I admire that in you. Dg get bullied much?

Because of her disability? I have had that experience before. I have

moved on from that. What would they have done? I want to find out what

people do, so we can make sure that people don't do it again to others.

Making fun of people's disabilities. People would have done at tea on

the street? Let's just say, in schools. Mainly. None of us like

being the elite. What did it do to you? It made me feel isolated.

That's part of its. I have moved on from that. How did you fight back?

I didn't really fight back at that time. I bottle things up. It herds?

It did. I always say to myself inside my head, sticks and stones

may break my bones, but names will never hurt me.

You are in the Special Olympics. Yes. I do rhythmic gymnastics. I'm

quite flexible. Handstands. I'm a natural athlete. What was it like?

Is that you? It was amazing. I was increase in their video. It was the

World games. In Athens. Look at that. My uncle, Charlie, was the

one who videoed it. He came over with his wife, Janice. How much

practice needs to go into doing that? I practise every Wednesday

evening. Did you feel free out there? But that is what you do?

Sometimes and light, no matter who we are, when you're doing something

that true love, well, for me, I love being here and I feel freedom.

I was able to spread out around the floor and do my routines perfectly.

I hear you are in love! Yes.If you don't want to name him? I will not

name him. Let's not get into the nitty-gritty, but you're going to

have me about end of an independent life? You yes.We end? I haven't a

clue. I am on the Housing Executive List. I have been honoured for

quite a while! Of fully soon. Whole police soon. Where his mum? Heidi

feel about her moving out? As soon as possible! We will miss her, but

this is the right thing to, for her somebody with Downs syndrome. I

remember turning to the relative. was the young lady's mother. I

walked away with a deep sense of guilt about myself. This young lady

started talking so articulately, as you have tonight. And I do think

that you will remind us all just to challenge our prejudices. Do you

agree with that? 100%. There is no reason why Barbara and people like

or should not be living independently. It should be an

available option for all of them. Absolutely. Where is Catherine? You

are the mother of a Downs syndrome child. What advice would you give?

Always look at the person or who he is, not the disability he has. Never

judge a book by the cover. That is tonight. Ladies and gentlemen,

Barbara. Thank you very much. Right, shall we move on? Our next debate is

gay marriage. This week it has been backed by MPs in the House of

Commons. The Prime Minister is adamant. It is worth fighting for.

There will be young boys in school today who are gay, worried about

being bullied, worried about what society will think, who will see

that the highest no in the land cares for them. The the DUP have

said it will not happen on their watch. If Scotland goes ahead, we

could be the only region in the UK were gay people cannot get married.

If a gay person gets married in England and comes to live here,

there is same-sex marriage would not be recognised here. Let's find out

what you think of this. Jim Allister, what is wrong with gay

people in love getting married? Marriage is properly an institution

for heterosexual marriage. Not any more. It is an institution devised

to provide a secure, loving framework for the procreation and

the raising of children. The suggestion that because same-sex

couple love each other, that they should be able to marry, is a per

version of marriage. There is no parity between heterosexual marriage

and same-sex marriage. It it may be a parity of marriage. I think you're

thinking is a per version, I have to say. This is the aggressive gay

agenda. It cannot even tolerate dispute. I'm Brian Kennedy, by the

way. One second, Brian. Let's take the premise you begin with. If two

people love each other, why can't they married? Let's follow the

logic. Let's say a man says he loves to women. Are we going to go for

polygamy? Patrick, go ahead. This is a ridiculous, hate filled,

ridiculous argument. There is a vital principle at stake. It is

equality. Everyone here and everyone in Northern Ireland, male, female,

gay, straight, should be entitled to equal rights under the law. There is

no equality between heterosexual marriage and same-sex marriage.

are dehumanising gay people. You are denigrating me, you are denigrating

Brian. Your denigrating everybody who is not heterosexual. Your words

harm everyone. I give you an example. Last weekend, the day

before the third reading of the debate in Parliament in London, a

gay couple were brutally attacked in a park in south London. One of those

people, Christopher Bryant, warned MPs, public figures like you, about

the homophobic rhetoric. He warned that your words would cause violence

against gay people. You say it is a matter of equality. If it was, the

European Convention of human rights would provide for gay marriage. It

would have said it is wrong to deny gay marriage. The European Court has

given many zany rulings. It has never yet said that. There is no

issue of equality. It is a matter for the legislature in each member

state. What you want to do is enforce against the rule of the

electorate, against the will of the electorate who are elected to make

these decisions. This is a devolved issue in Northern Ireland, whether

you like it or not. Equality is a red herring. Equality has been dealt

with under civil partnerships. This is about a small minority trying to

force their views on the majority. This is 1% of the population. The

office of National statistics has done the survey. There are more than

a thousand marriages in Northern Ireland, more than 85 civil

marriages. It is a red herring. Civil partnership and marriage are

not the same thing. What happens with the children of these people?

You're trying to demonise what's going on here. I think you are

having a good go at it Jim. Peter Tatchell does not equate same-sex

marriage with gay marriage. Can I finish the point? Peter Tatchell

himself said that two gay men in a relationship, the only way they can

commit adultery is with a woman. And so you have two choices. Why do you

focus on that? You say you are all about the principle of equality...

think there is a very important issues. In Ireland right now, in the

world right now, young people are trying to decide on their identity.

The things that are happening, whether it was in the 1980s when you

did that all-star sodomy nonsense at the City Hall... Who is demonising

now? Suicide in young people is on the rise. The things that you are

saying are making young people feel bad about themselves. Because

somebody disagrees with you, you are saying that people are committing

suicide. That is not the case. talking about things that lead to

homophobia. That is the way you are thinking. As soon as someone who

disagrees with you, you say it is homophobic thinking. That is

nonsense. In the 80s you were part of the the DUP delegation. What is

your position? I accept what the law says. I am not here for you to put

words into my mouth. You may be very good at doing that with other

people. Hold on a minute!I know this show has an obsession with gay

marriage. You'll not be putting words in my mouth. I accept the law.

Let me repeat the question. So much I not trying to put words in your

mouth, my friend, I am asking you a question so that you can answer it.

Don't go off on these tangents about me having an agenda. Would you

prefer gay sex was still illegal, as you chose to have that position in

the 80s? Have you changed? I believe gay sex is wrong. I believe it is a

lifestyle that is inappropriate. I have to accept that the law says it

is not illegal. I am a legislator. Have I tried to change the law? I

accept the law as it exists. What I also accept is that people have the

right to legislate according to the views of their electorate. The

electorate in Northern Ireland have spoken through the assembly that

they do not want same-sex marriage. These people want to enforce it.

That young man. Jim, how do you feel about being wrong against equality?

Eventually young people, it will happen. Inevitably, gay marriage

will happen. We don't have the statistics to see the breakdown.

Young people are clear on this. Young people definitely feel it is

going to happen. We maybe 15 years behind England. It will happen.

Thank God for young people. might be young but you do not speak

on behalf of all young people, for example. You're kind of middle-aged!

What you think? Equality means treating similar things the same.

Equality means treating similar things the same. Marriage already

does that. It treats all people equally, regardless of age, sex,

discrimination. There is a fundamental difference between

heterosexual and homosexual relationship. A homosexual

relationship is not compatible to procreate for children. It is not

the best environment to bring up a child without a mother and father.

Secondly, to redefine marriage is to change the truth. When you change

the truth, you open the floodgates for everything. There are two

issues. It is very important. There is a notion that somehow we should

accept this second weight position -- second rate. Let me finish. The

separate but equal argument was the doctrine that underpinned racial

segregation in America. Do you understand what we are talking about

here? Do you want exactly the same is the principal? You will accept

that Northern Ireland has a right to say no to this? Yes, but it is going

to happen whether you like it or not. Do we have a say you Mac --?

will tell you what your problem is, Jim. You're too far behind the

times. You and the rest of the unionist parties, get your head out

of the sand! Move on, Jim! Here we have another illustration. As ever,

those who present themselves as liberal... Stop! Stop! There is no

point shouting because we cannot hear you. Tell me why you are so

angry? I am angry because the likes of him is up there is spreading

hatred on TV. He's entitled to his opinion without being accused of

spreading anything. He is entitled to his opinion. He is also an

elected politician with a mandate, by the way. There is no hatred in

saying that marriage is for heterosexuals. No hatred whatsoever.

Can we talk about this argument of redefinition? This is often brought

up. Marriage has been redefined dozens of times. Marriage was

redefined when we decided that it was not OK for men to be able to

legally rape their wives and marriage. Marriage was redefined by

Henry VIII when he decided marriage is not forever when you want to

sleep with Anne Boleyn. A lady in the glasses. Your guy there was

talking about gay people having kids and about how it is not a good

environment. There are many heterosexual families who have kids

you should not happen -- have them. What makes it wrong for a gay

person? Lady in the purple top.Jim, what gives you the right to tell you

that I should not be able to marry the woman that I love, when you can

marry the woman you love? And by your logic, if my labour can say he

loves to three women -- if my neighbour... That is where you are

going to end up. Once you depart from the tried and tested truth of

marriage, the union of one man and one woman, it is a slippery slope.

Polygamy is next. Why is polygamy wrong? Because it is contrary to the

moral feelings of the community. Morals to affect legislature.

ago, black people could not marry white people. Catholics could not

marry Protestants. Here we are. Brazil is one of the countries that

refuses to allow gay marriage. Jim is not scaremongering. The other

thing that is not on the legislation is protection for churches. Edna