Episode 5 The Nolan Show

Welcome along, we're live on BBC One.

Here's what we've got for you tonight.

First Minister Peter Robinson defends him.

I don't trust them if they are fully devoted to Sharia law. I wouldn't

trust them. Which will guidance. Would I trust them to go down to the

shops for me? Of course I would. We have Pastor McConnell live in the

studio - facing one of his strongest Sea lions at the circus - harmless

entertainment or cruel exploitation? Respect MP George

Galloway will be here. And local classical singer

Margaret Keys will be performing Big show ahead of us tonight. Thank

you for joining us. The row over a pastor's comments

about Muslims just keeps growing. James McConnell was strongly

criticised for saying he But First Minister Peter Robinson

has now defended him. The DUP leader claims Pastor

McConnell is being demonised. In a minute,

we'll hear directly from the man But let's just remember

how it's all unfolded. People say there are good Muslims in

Britain. But I don't trust them. Enoch Powell was right. He lost his

career because of it. Enoch Powell was a prophet. He told us that blood

would flow in the streets and it has happened. Islamic State even. If

Lamb is Satanic. -- Islam is a doctrine spawned in hell. He has

clarified his comment. In the same way as I have. I would not trust

Muslims to give me spiritual advice. I would not trust Muslims who are

bombing. I would not trust those who are following Sharia law to the

letter. However, there are normal daily activities in life which I

would know have -- I would have no problem trusting a Muslim about. I

am absolutely shocked that a politician, in a position of

leadership, in a position of authority, can speak with such a

doubleton. Well, Khalid Annis, you have come

all the way over this evening from across the water. What is your

reaction? I think it is disgraceful. I think it is shocking that somebody

in a position of leadership, in a position of influence, somebody that

everybody in Northern Ireland and, I would imagine in the mainland, looks

up to for guidance, for leadership, can utter a statement which is full

of hate. He would deny it is full of hatred. He would deny that. The

trouble is, word of hatred... He would trust a Muslim to go to the

shops for him. That's very kind of him! Would you trust a Muslim to

treat his family in the hospital? It is a two edged sword. He may be

trying to qualify, that is trusting certain Muslims, certain of us. I

not interested. I think it is shocking. We should always remember

from history, words of hatred always shocking. We should always remember

where this is leading. You must be touched

where this is leading. You must be Minister's support? I was surprised

to hear Peter talk today. He didn't really need to do that.

to hear Peter talk today. He didn't a man talks like that, his career is

at stake. And I didn't want to get him to -- I

at stake. And I didn't want to get trouble over me. I you touch that he

stood up for you? Very touched. The Minister of health study for me.

Sammy Wilson stood up. You have lots of friends within the DUP. You

influential? No, I am not. I don't even belong to that party. Why are

they rallying to your support? I think they believe in what I'm

doing. They believe in my ministry, they believe me to be honest and

sincere. I think I would qualify what Peter has said because he

mentioned the Sharia law. Whatever way you want to pronounce it. I have

heard it pronounced differently many times. I do not trust a Muslim

because they are governed by Sharia law. Muslims in Northern Ireland, I

don't trust them. But you don't trust any of them? If they are

controlled by Sharia law? Any of them? Any of them because of Sharia

law. If it says to do violence, they will do it, they will obey Sharia

law. So this man opposite you, by default, you don't trust him because

of his religion? I don't trust his religion. You don't trust him as an

individual, you don't trust all Muslims? Tell him why you don't

trust him. I don't trust him as an individual because of his religion.

You are a man of God and you are looking in my eyes. You don't know

me at all. And you are telling me that you don't trust me? Because of

my faith. Even though. Sharia law impact on the? It impacts

me by saying give 2.5% of your income to charity. By saying, do you

know what, the pastor has said very rude things about Muslims and been

very hurtful, but make the effort, go over and sit with him. Speak to

him with kindness. He has said he would shake your hand. You told me

this last week. You said you would have dinner with Khalid, you just

don't trust him. It is pretty facile staff to judge a human being as

untrustworthy before you have met them. You don't know anything about

them. No, because of the history of Sharia law and because of the

history of Islam throughout the world. I have here over 2000

incidents of terrorists that believe in Sharia law and have caused havoc

around the world. Are you serious? Are you serious? Do you want me to

pick up my list of all the atrocities around the world

committed for other people for other reasons? Do you want me to bring

that to you? No, this religion, that is what I'm talking about.

Christianity is above blame, is it? No. Well my goodness, where are you

coming from. Listen to me. I had a phone call on the way up here from a

local Belfast resident. A young lady. She said, please tell the

pastor that when he spoke his words, since his brokers work, I have had

so much hate crime against me. -- since he spoke his words. Do you not

get it? You are a man of God. Instead of sitting here talking to

me as one humanity, you are talking down to me. You are talking to me

from an angle of hatred. You are talking from an angle of mistrust. I

have Jewish friends, I have Christian friends, friends from all

over, friends of no faith. And when we sit together, we have things that

have a positive impact on society. If you were in Islamic countries,

could you have me as a Christian friend? Oh, my goodness. First of

all, let's put this straight. I am not in an Islamic country. This is

my country. I abide by British law. This is my law, my Sharia law tells

me to abide by the country's law that I live in. But Sharia law is

coming into Britain. What world do you live in? This world. You

absolutely do not. I have already told you how sharia governs my

life. It governs my personal things, which have no impact on society. The

trouble is, so many people, they talk about Islam from sound bites.

Hold on a second, I have to tell you right now, in your defence, there

has been a significant amount of support for you. There has been a

lot of criticism, there has been a significant amount of support coming

into the radio show, through all the different gateways that we have to

the BBC. So, you clearly have a level of influence and you now have

the support of the First Minister of this country. With that comes

responsibility. Have you sat back and thought, since you issued this

sermon, have you thought about the impact on local Muslims in this

country, here in Northern Ireland? They have to send their kids to

school. They have to go to the shops. Can I speak now? Yes. Thank

you. When I uttered that statement, there was not one Moslem in Northern

Ireland in my mind. I qualified it by saying that there were groups

right throughout Britain, Muslim groups, ready to do violence. Just

as there were cell groups of IRA in Britain. And the British frightened

that they would bomb them. You also said that Enoch Powell was right and

you could not pick a more racist comment then to suggest that Enoch

Powell and his rivers of blood speech was correct. Yes, I believe

it was, because it came to pass. With your logic, with greatest

respect, you just talked about the IRA. This is why it is doubly

shocking. We are sitting in a country which has been totally

ripped apart by sectarian strife. By your own logic, everybody in this

audience, you know what, I do not trust you. I do not trust you. That

is your logic. The Americans, do not trust any Americans. 3000 innocent

Americans killed by one strikes. I do not trust you. When you see that

you do not trust him, what does that actually mean? You used an example

of a few was instructed to engage in violence. If he wasn't struck had to

-- instructed to engage in violence by Sharia law then he would do it. I

know that he is laughing at me. I am not laughing, because it is

happening. By the way, that young woman had her baby this morning.

This is the young woman in Sudan, which is at the heart of a story

that has been talked about nationally. This lady in Sudan has

been sentenced to death. Do you support that? No, not at all. That

is ridiculous. Why don't you protest then? The mac this is exactly my

point. I have protested. Take that. I have protested. I have written. I

have gone I have protested. I have written. I

I have written to the Sudanese embassy? What do you want me to do?

Can you prove this to me? The mac oh, my goodness. Why are you

questioning his word? Because he is a Muslim? Because of the Sharia law.

questioning his word? Because he is For your audience, this is a man of

God sitting before you. And this is how you are speaking to me. But he

is entitled... Of course ears, Stephen. He is not entitled to call

you a liar. He is in title to stand by his face, entitled to criticise

other religions, that is called freedom of speech. I have no problem

with that. We can sit down and have a discussion about religion and

faith and politics and sports, we might disagree more on sports. But

we consider down and discuss anything. I do not mind. You want to

criticise Islam, be my guest. You want to criticise the Muslim

community, that is absolutely fine. But when you generalise, and when

you stereotype, and when your notions are based on ignorance, that

is problematic. Deep down, do you not regret any of the words that you

used? No, I do not. I am being honest before God, I do not regret

it, because I know it is the truth. History is the... None of the

thousands of people who go to your church on a Sunday, none of them

have challenged you? No, they have not. What about the Muslims in your

congregation? Because they know me, they are used to me. Somebody phoned

me and said, you have heard -- I have heard you say worse. That is

not necessarily a compliment, is it? Let us go to the audience. This man

here. Just after listening to yourself here, to be fair, I have

Muslim friends as well and there are two sides to Sharia law as far as I

can see. There is the side that I see over here and then there is this

say that you see in the news and social media. I am not religious, I

trust every religion, I do not judge people like that. I do not come

across -- you do not come across as someone who is... Believes in these

things. To be feared the past it has been taken out of context. He has

clarified that he does not trust Muslims. That is a bit strong. He

trusts Muslim is over here. No, he doesn't. Do you trust Muslims in

Northern Ireland? Yes, because they give no trouble. The Muslims in

Britain, that is the clarification of the statement. Cell groups

throughout Britain, that is what I do not trust. So there are no

Muslims in Northern Ireland following Sharia law. One second, I

want to put the audience. You are talking when Muslims, they follow

Sharia law, that is by their religion. If you're a Christian then

you follow your religion by using the Bible. The Bible says to love

your neighbour. If you do not trust your labour then how do you love

them? That is an important part of trusting the mac loving your

neighbour. I am not doing this man any harm. I would not hurt here on

his head. It would not hurt here on anybody's head. You have obviously

insulted and offended him. If I have insulted and offended him then I am

sorry but I do not trust Sharia law. I do not trust it, it is an evil

law, an evil law before God and I say that in front of him. It is an

evil law. He knows that and it is right throughout the world. All

Saints Church in Pakistan, six months ago was burned. 100

Christians lost their lives, 200 were wounded. What is your point?

They were all being Sharia law. They were not all being Sharia law. You

do not understand what Sharia law is. Sharia law is not a rigid set of

rules, by the way. Sharia law is supposed to be a flexible guidance,

which actually changes from country to country from time to time. Number

one. Number two, to say that those people were following Sharia law is

ridiculous. It has got nothing to do with me here. I live in Britain, I

follow British law. I would suggest that those of you who are saying, he

did not really understand watch a real lawyers, but -- who do not

really understand a bit of real, read up about it, but do not read it

in the Daily Mail. Go to your Muslim friends, or go to somewhere

repeatable. You are being investigated by the police. So I

hear. Have they been in touch? No. So how can the investigate you? I do

not know. They have not knocked my door. That is some investigation,

isn't it! What are they investigating? Because it is freedom

of speech. I am allowed to say this. I am not inciting hatred. You are

not allowed to incite hatred, that is against the law. I am not

inciting hatred. Your lead to brand all people of certain faiths and

trustworthy? You allowed to do that? I brand among trustworthy because of

this particular law. Which you know nothing about. I know much about it.

How influential do you think you nothing about. I know much about it.

over the people who come to your church? I am only a simple pasta. I

passed 2000 people. church? I am only a simple pasta. I

building. You have the ex-finance minister, he sits there, yet tense.

-- he attends. You have had the First

-- he attends. You have had the You're only a pastor? I have

Jesus's support. You're only a pastor? I have

that? He is guiding me. I pastor to 2000 people, I gave them. Whilst you

may not see yourself as a person of influence Peter Robinson most

definitely is and I definitely agree that words of hatred can turn to

actions of hatred. What you make of what the First Minister has said?

actions of hatred. What you make of cannot believe it, he is so

influential and people definitely believe what he has to say. He has

said that he would trust Muslims to vote the shops and

said that he would trust Muslims to things. That is understandable, but

there is still the distrust there. They do not fully trust Muslims,

which I do not think his rates to save who is so influential. -- I do

not think it is right to say that for someone who is so influential.

There were church is recognised as a Protestant church although we have

members who are Roman Catholics and we have members who are Muslims. I

have been amazed at the post from Roman Catholics and believe it

have been amazed at the post from not Republicans. I hope that Martin

McGuinness is listening tonight. He has criticised you. Very much so. I

replied to him. It is amazing that has criticised you. Very much so. I

Roman Catholics and Republicans, who have encouraged me and said that

what I am saying is the truth... Let us bring people in at home. If you

are picking up the phone you will see the numbers coming up on your

screen. Hello, David. I am a Protestant absolutely disgusted with

the pastor and with the First Minister. It is such evil. We tried

to get someone on from the DUP tonight. No one fun the DUP wanted

to come on and defender First Minister. I do not know what you

want to read into that but no one wait defend them. The Muslim

community in Northern Ireland are more than welcome here and they do a

good job and I think it is disgraceful that people target

people just because they are Muslims or whatever else, it is a disgrace.

They are not being targeted, are they? A pastor stands up in a house

of God, which he says he is, which I do not think he is, which he says

about Muslim people. You will get head cases in this country who will

target these people for one reason or another. His remarks are a

disgrace. A Protestant, I would not set foot in his church. What do you

say to David? LAUGHTER.

You would not sit in the church, but 2000 people do. I think it is very

sad. The young lady with the glasses. I find it shocking what

Peter Robinson said. He does not trust Muslims. What if a Muslim

comes to him with an issue, it is the word again someone else. Would

you trust the word or how would he take his constituent's issue

forward? What do you say to your First Minister tonight? I am

shocked. I have lived here from Scotland and this is the person

leading the country you know. Not everyone is treated as equals, some

people are trusted and some people are not, it is absolutely

disgusting. What you think this message has, the story going across

the water? This story was on Channel four News tonight, for goodness

sake. The impact is severe. Even though in Northern Ireland are few

Muslims, the impact on them should not be underestimated. You are very

naive to think that your words do not have a direct impact on people.

You are not allowed to criticise Islam in this country any more?

Nobody is saying that. It is thought by many, you criticise Christianity,

fair game. You criticise Islam and all of a sudden... That as a

representative view. It may well be. If you want to

criticise my faith, criticise anything you want, do not stereotype

a whole community. You may not pick up arms, but do you know what, other

people will do. And unfortunately there are people who have contacted

me from the local Muslim community who have already felt that pressure.

And from a man of God that is not good enough. In Islamic

countries... Heidi keep bringing this up? It has nothing to do with

me. It does have to do with you. I'm British-born. Yes, you are British.

I might write to them, like I might write to anybody else that Amnesty

International mate asked me to, it is nothing to do with me. I follow

British law. The loyalist killings that there has been in Northern

Ireland, are you to blame for those? No. It is from your community. Why

are you not to blame when he is to blame? I am sure he is not to

blame, but... But you do not trust me. That is right. You are small in

this country and you are growing in Britain. This is my country. I have

given to this country more than a lot of people have given. I

contribute to this country, it is my country, it is my Britain. Do not

take ownership of that from me. This is my country, thank you very much.

We are going to continue talking about this on the radio show

tomorrow morning. We're going to continue talking about this on

Twitter right now. And indeed right after the show -- the sure we will

be taking your views. Please get our two guests round of applause.

As Duffy's circus rolls into town with it's sea lion act, one animal

Now, my next guest first came to the prominence on a BBC talent show

Since then she has performed on Songs of Praise, and BBC Proms,

and has been signed to Universal Records.

Singing one of my favourite songs - ?Bring Him Home' from Les

Miserables - ladies and gentlemen please welcome Margaret Keys.

# In my need

# Let him rest

# Bring him home

# If God had granted me a son

How soon they fly # On and on # And I am old # And will be gone # Bring

# Bring him joy # He is young # He is only a boy # You can

# Let him be

die # Let him live # Bring him home # Bring him home # Bring him home.

Beautiful, absolutely beautiful. Thank you so much.

Here's how you at home can get involved tonight.

Politicians always divide opinion. But surely very few of them do

that more than my next guest. MP George Galloway - a fiery, brave,

independent voice - or a dangerous, You were books to come on quite a

while ago. What a night for you to be on. What is your reaction towards

our First Minister in Northern Ireland regarding his support for

Pastor James McConnell. I felt as if I was on the set of Mississippi

burning. I felt like Gene Hackman in the barbershop. Your staff had to

hold me back from confronting the kind of mindless, ignorant, bigotry

to which your audience has just been treated. I really don't think you

should underestimate just how grotesque that first item was. A you

Tube classic, and not in a good way. He has the support of our First

Minister. That is the point. The DUP has been in touch with us to say

that under no circumstances has the First Minister said that he does not

trust all Muslims. They want to make that clear. They just haven't taken

the opportunity to make it clear. There was an open seat for them,

where on earth are they? Otherwise, it would just be the case of

embarrassingly -- of an embarrassingly foolish old man who

thinks that Muslims followed Sharia law, a word that he mispronounced 11

times. He has a lot of support. Otherwise, it would just be that. It

is the fact that power pool -- powerful people in this government

worship in his ministry every Sunday. And the First Minister no

less... And I heard the car crashed into view that Peter Robinson gave

today. The interview he gave to the news. He does not say that in no

circumstances he does not trust Muslims. He said it three times...

He spelt out circumstances in which she would not trust Muslims. He

would trust want to go to the shops for him. And do everyday tasks for

him. Yes, that was kind of him. But the offence that that will have...

He said everyday tasks, everyday life, is what he said. It is on

Channel four News, it is also an Al Jazeera news. It is travelling

across the world that the First Minister of this place indoors

Batman who said... He defended him, he did not endorse everything he

said. But he defended him so resolutely that you cannot slip

sixpence between that pastor and Peter Robinson. That is how it will

be seen in the world. Best not to go looking for any investment from the

Islamic world any time soon. Best not go looking for any tourists.

They don't want to visit the set of Mississippi burning. This is

madness. This shows this place as a 400-year-old throwback. What would

happen if David Cameron said something similar? If any minister,

or any shadow minister in Britain had said what Peter Robinson had

said today, he would already have resigned. Hold on a minute. So a

First Minister is not allowed any more, some people might admire him

because he is defended a man whom he has known for 20 years. He has also

defended free speech. You are a big advocate of free speech. Not of hate

speech, I am not. Why is it hate speech? The police have not

contacted him? That speaks volumes, too. This pastor said that Muslims

were the spawn of the devil. He said the faith, not Muslims, the faith.

Islamic State. That is a distinction without a difference. Do you think

the Bangladeshi shopkeeper or the Pakistani doctor here in Belfast or

elsewhere, here in the North of Ireland, makes a distinction? They

believe that that he was talking about them, not their faith abstract

Lee. If I hear that a hair on the head of any Muslim is now harmed,

who do you think will be blamed and how big a story well that the? Peter

Robinson has made it clear that he does not support violence. That is

somewhat problematic in itself. I don't want to intrude on Irish

political matters in this discussion. He had the opportunity

to finish this story today. He could have said, actually, I don't agree

with the words the pastor used. But he is a decent man, I have known him

for 20 years but I would never have used that language. Is there not an

issue with the Islamic faith? Is there not an issue that some people

who adhere to an interpretation of Jerry along support a woman in Sudan

are being given 100 lashes and executed because she has committed

up -- adultery. -- those who adhere to an interpretation of Sharia law.

You telling me there would be no Muslims in who follows the Sharia

law who would be supporting that? I defy you to produce one? Is there no

Islamic extremism in England? There is. And the man sitting here was one

of the leading men who condemns it. But this Islamic extremism, do you

think the pastor's words and Peter Robinson's support will help or

hinder extras in Britain? Will it make people more fanatic or less

frenetic this was eight -- or less fantastic. This was a grossly

frenetic this was eight -- or less petrol to a fire that could have

been put down to another crackpot pastor in Northern Ireland.

been put down to another crackpot what has been done. About you and

been put down to another crackpot your Respect party courting the

Muslim vote? I am of Irish Catholic your Respect party courting the

part -- background. I don't even know if you are of a Muslim

background. It is know if you are of a Muslim

business. Plenty of plenty of people used to talk about Catholics like

that. These should talk about the Pope as an antichrist. Most people

in Britain Pope as an antichrist. Most people

Ireland was getting away from that. Peter Robinson tall that up today.

That is what happened. This story could go away, couldn't it? Well, it

was an British national news tonight. It is on the news all over

the Muslim world and if we are unlucky, there will be be somebody

talking about Shah ra ra law. He knows nothing about the words, you

knows nothing about the religion, he is smearing it in a comprehensive

way. And the man who sat opposite him as a hero. Why do you think he

has so many supporters? That is worrying. Is that not democracy? I

think that decent people should do is associate themselves from this

fanatic that you had on. This guy wants to speak. Let's get a Mike to

you. Jaws, you are scaremongering. The man was in his own church, in

his own Assembly for 40 years, teaching people. Raising them up to

raise a family, to respect every person. That is why he is respected

in his church. The media came in and listen to what he was saying on the

platform. Then they manipulated it and brought him into the world and

told him he was telling people he didn't trust them. I am sorry, you

listen. The media did not tell him anything. The media manipulated

everything that he said. Can we talk rather than just shout. This

audience, this whole audience... The Christians are starting to stand up.

We are now having a goal more. It is as simple as that. Do you trust...

Do you mistrust all Muslims? Trust is built through knowing. So how do

you trust Pastor McConnell. Why do you go to his church for six months

and then come out and tell him that he is a bigot? Here's a man of God

who has brought and Protestants together for years. George Galloway

is a scaremonger. Everywhere he goes he once media -- he once media

attention. A way back to Britain. Thank you very much. As far as I can

see, there is a one person shouting here and it is you. You can, of

course, reply to you. There was a rather disturbing number of people

who found that contribution worth applauding. As you are in -- as they

are entitled to do. If it is not disturbing to you it is certainly

disturbing to me. The media did nothing in this story. He was not

just speaking in his church, his sermons are online, to the world.

And his words were not manipulated. Who are you going to believe which

FGM me, or the evidence of your own eyes? -- me. MAN SHOUTS.

You saw and heard what he said. He praised enough Powell. He said that

he had been right. He said that Islam was the spawn of the devil. --

Enoch Powell. He did not say that he did not trust Islam. He said that he

did not trust Muslims. Some say that there are some good Muslims in this

country, maybe so, but I do not trust them. I was just going to

respond to that gentleman's response there. He says it was taken out of

context, Pastor McConnell's use, but we have literally just seen him in

context in front of the wall nation saying, yes, he does not trust

Muslims. It is in context. Let us come back to the issue. Some

politicians are pretty mealy-mouthed. Peter Robinson made

the comment today, how come it is OK to mistrust all politicians? He

speaks with authority and he needs to have responsibility in what he

says. He has a very public profile and a platform and he needs to take

responsibility. If he has those views that's his prerogative. Last

point to you, George, one needs to happen now? Does need to be clarity?

I think unless Peter Robinson comprehensively withdraws what he

said this morning then he must be deemed not fit for office. That is

for the Northern Irish public to decide, isn't it? It is, but as

foreign as I know, Peter Robinson once Northern Ireland to be a member

of the United Kingdom. As a member of the Northern Ireland -- of the

United Kingdom Parliament, the overwhelming view is that this man

is not fit for office. He was my final question, because we are out

of time. It may be the case at the next general election, who knows

of time. It may be the case at the what way that will turn out, but it

may be the case that the Conservatives, that Cameron would

may be the case that the need the DUP support. Can you

may be the case that the David Cameron taking flak now across

the water she aligns himself or joins up with the DUP and some guys

because of how it could be interpreted or not? I your local

pass quickly enough. I think it will quickly come up again. David

Cameron's feat is of no interest to me. But the fate of the people here

is of great and familial and historic interest to me. And I just

feel very sad, as most people will, historic interest to me. And I just

I have heard tonight and to hear the applause that the bigot over there

got. APPLAUSE. We are out of time. Please thank our

guest tonight, George Galloway. And off he goes. He has gone

already. Roll up, roll up. Duffy's Circus is in Belfast this week that

there is criticism surrounding the sea lion act. An animal rights group

has called for the circus to be boycotted.

At yesterday's matinee performance this sea lions entertain an audience

of predominantly families by balancing balls and catching rings.

The act is a new addition to the circus. This is one of their

trainers. If you do not love animals you cannot do this life. That is the

main reason. Most of the people who complain, most of them, sorry to

say, but they do not know about animals. They do not know how it is

for an animal if he was born in captivity. Of course you have to

treat them well, I am for it, I am foreign that you have outside cages

for lions and tigers and tanks for sea lions. We want to. We have a lot

of money -- we spend a lot of money to give them a better life. But what

did those who came to see the circus think of the sea lions? Wim Abbey

were a very delicate, they were not in any way hurtful to the animals.

They were treated really well, they were really welfare. Well trained.

And joined from Tom from the circus and a member of an animal-rights

group. It is self-explanatory. In the world see lions would dive for

hundreds of metres, here they are performing in a circus, in a

paddling pool or a pool of water. This is literally a lace. Let us

call a spade a spade, if we were to go -- if we were to go back 100

years and might not have had a problem with it either. But the

science was not on our side. How is the science on your side now? We

know about cruelty and abuse. Is cruelty to look after animals well

in a circus? Two we have seen this sea lions year. The clues in the

name. In this day and age it is absolutely wrong. Most people would

be able to see what is wrong with keeping an animal that is highly

intelligent and a pool of water. You were dragging these animals all over

the country and that is the God 's honest truth. If I can just say, my

family has been in the circus business since the 1800 's. In all

that time we have had animals in our charge. We have never, ever been

either cautioned or prosecuted for the way that we keep animals. It

does not make it morally right though, does it? The proof is in the

eating. You look at the sea lions there. They have been born in the

circus. They have not been born in the ocean, they have not been

captured from the sea. But they have never experienced what they should

have experienced. You have deprived them of that. I have not deprived

them of that. And the public entertain them. I have absolutely no

problem with that. I would not be here tonight if I did have a problem

with it. I know that our animals are well looked after and well cared

for. I know that they are loved. But I be exploited for profit and

entertainment? No, I would not think so. Animals all around the world are

used for profit, whether it is show-jumping, horse racing, dog

racing, once an animal is happy and safe, and that after, then I am

happy. John has been saying for the last 20 years that there is

undercover investigations regarding cruelty to animals in circuses. He

has been saying that and planting seeds in people's minds in 20 years

and every time I have asked John over those 20 years what have the

proven against the animals in Duffy's Circus he will never answer

me. A couple of things. I would ask you, you talk about your love of the

animals. It shows you that you are completely out of touch with these

creatures. How do you keep these animals mentally stimulated apart

from the pool of water that they are kept in? Yes. How? Give him a chance

to and CU! They work in the performance every day. They are

dealing with their handlers, who they are used to. They have access

to the pools inside and outside 24 hours a day. They are handled and

would have to and played with all the long. Who plays with them? You

imply antler. -- you employ a handler? There is someone on a shift

and nobody ever sleeps and deeply for them -- play with them 24 overs

Western Mark. The handlers live beside them 20 47. Let us speak to a

ringmaster in Oxford. Explain to me how these sea lions have a great

quality? Animals in a circus, sea lions included, are working animals.

That is what David Duffy is trying to explain. They have a relationship

with trainer, and the... According to David Duffy they are with them

all day. What he is trying to explain is that there is a close

relationship, they are working. They have a lot to think about, they have

a working day, they have training, they have performances. They are not

sitting there are lying there are swimming about board. They have

plenty to do. That replaces what they would be doing in nature. That

is what must be looked at. I am confident that is what Duffy's

Circus is doing. It is nonsense. Duffy's Circus for well over ten

years had a tiger act. People just need to go onto YouTube and search

for it. Duffy's Circus and tigers. It does not really matter. You can

see amateur footage pages, they were driven berserk.

They pages, they were driven berserk.

tigers for 23 years. The footage tigers for 23 years. The footage

that John has shown of the animals in the cage pacing is

opinion and nobody else's opinion is relevant. Daniel, you have been

protesting week. As you said at the start of the show, animal cruelty is

the issue. It goes beyond beating and starving animals, it extends to

the issue. It goes beyond beating decide reaches of the five freedoms.

One of those freedoms is their right decide reaches of the five freedoms.

behaviour. You saw in the clip there what sort of natural scenario would

see lion jumped through a hoop or through a paddling pool. In this

free society, you not getting the message that you are clearly in the

minority if it is profitable for Duffy's Circus and hundreds of

thousands of people are supporting him. Mr Duffy will know

thousands of people are supporting been a bit misleading... How?

According to his Facebook place it has been sold out and packed out

every night. I have in their... Daniel seems to have an absolute of

session with our Facebook page. Daniel seems to have an absolute of

love it. We are the most successful circus in Ireland. Have you blocked?

Our Facebook page is a business page. It is for people who come to

see the circus page. It is for people who come to

circus. Not to comment on the circus, to praise it but not to

comment on it. If you comment circus, to praise it but not to

then you get blocked. If you use circus, to praise it but not to

words like they have that I am scum, that I am an animal abuser. He has

not said that. that I am an animal abuser. He has

that, let us be clear. This is on the Facebook page. If they use

words, and this is Daniel's words. Hold on a moment, they are not

Daniel's words. I am going to quote Daniel. Hurry up. Daniel and find

everybody on his Facebook date last night that everybody came to our

circus when we were full last night, we were full of the ignorant, which

means that everybody who had the right... I did, and I can justify

that. Definition of the word ignorant as lack of knowledge and

understanding and awareness. He justified, he made clear to me what

it meant, unsophisticated, lacking of knowledge, or lacking of

education. So everybody that wanted to come to see our circus are

lacking of knowledge, they are... He is entitled to say it. Those who

come to our circus are entitled to come and see it without being

slandered, without being intimidated, without being... All I

can say is this. I am absolutely exhausted by this show tonight. We

need to continue to talk about it on Twitter now. We are out of time. We

are on the radio tomorrow morning, 9am, we will pick up all of these

debates and run with it. Thank you for your company tonight. In the

meantime, good night of the body. -- good night everybody.