Where There's Smoke New Tricks


Where There's Smoke

Crime drama. When the team receive information that a club fire in 1996 that killed criminal Mark Johnson was a targeted attack, they re-open the investigation.


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Transcript


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-Morning.

-Morning.

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Dawn Abbott. She was arrested three days ago and charged with intent to supply amphetamines.

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That'd be a current investigation, wouldn't it?

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It is and there's no mystery, she's admitted to it.

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But she does claim to have new information about a fatal fire in a drinking club in Ealing

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-called the Union, which at the time was classified as an accident.

-OK.

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-Can I help at all?

-Oh, I was just looking at the various courses.

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-New members are always welcome.

-And, erm, these lectures?

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Yes, each lecture is given by a U3A member, usually drawing on experience from their previous life.

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I mean their professional life.

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What did you do?

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-I was a police officer.

-Oh, really?

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-MOBILE RINGS

-Retired presumably now, with some extra time on your hands?

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Not exactly.

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# It's all right It's OK

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# Doesn't really matter if you're old and grey

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# It's all right I say it's OK

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# Listen to what I say

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# It's all right, doing fine

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# Doesn't really matter if the sun don't shine

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# It's all right I say it's OK

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# We're gettin' to the end of the day. #

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August 4th, 1996, the Union drinking club Ealing went up in flames.

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Four people died and seven were hospitalised.

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The people who died were Hailey Wilde, who worked

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behind the bar, Terence Cross, Chris Stamp who worked for this one, Mark Johnson, a local criminal.

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Local? That's like saying Heathrow is a local airport.

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Well, it is if you live in Hounslow.

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If this wasn't an accident then Mark Johnson was the target.

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-He's a serious player.

-Did you know him?

-No.

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He had two brothers who I did know, Danny and Karl. Danny mostly.

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I met him when I first joined the force and he was robbing shops.

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No, I think they took over his crew and are still running it, as far as I know.

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-So what are they into now?

-Well, drugs mostly.

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They put security in various clubs and bars and then they put their own dealer in.

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According to the original report, the fire was probably

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caused by faulty electrical wiring in a first floor room.

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-It looks like an inferno.

-There'd been building work the week before.

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The contractor said he'd used the room to store materials, like turpentine, paint thinner...

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They're accelerants, that's why the fire would have spread so quickly.

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-Yeah, that was the conclusion.

-So what's changed?

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We have a witness that claims it wasn't an accident.

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Oh, listen, could you put these in the locker with your stuff?

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-Yeah.

-Cheers.

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Detective Superintendent Pullman, Gerry Standing. UCOS.

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You know, according to Dawn Abbot's arrest report,

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she's never been charged with anything before.

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She's got a completely clean record.

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This place must have come as a bit of a shock then.

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I'd worked in the Union for almost four years, since I was 18.

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-But you weren't there the night of the fire?

-It was my evening off, I was lucky.

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Not so lucky now though, are you?

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I made a mistake.

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We can't offer you a deal for information Dawn, it doesn't work like that.

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I'm not looking for a deal.

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Why don't you think the fire was an accident?

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Because someone was after Mark Johnson.

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-I never knew who or why but someone wanted him dead.

-How do you know that?

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I heard some of them talking about it, days before the fire.

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Mark and a couple of the others, Terry Cross was one of them.

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-Who also died in the fire.

-Yeah.

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I don't remember who else but they were taking the threat seriously.

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Why didn't you come forward earlier?

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You don't tell tales where I come from.

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You keep your head down, look the other way.

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But I heard Johnson talking about someone coming after him and two days later he was dead.

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Do you think that's a coincidence?

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I don't think it's evidence. You'd have to give us more than that.

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Have you got more than that?

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They said it was an accident, and the fire spread so quickly

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cos there was things in the room where it started.

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-Yeah.

-Except there wasn't.

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There was nothing like that in the room, everything had already been taken away.

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Are you sure about that?

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We were storing empty bottles in that room, empty beer bottles, nothing that would catch alight.

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I was in and out of there. All the tools, the paint, everything was gone days before the fire.

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-Anyone fancy a coffee?

-Not for me, I remember what it's like.

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It must be odd being back in the heart of the nick.

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-We don't work from home at UCOS.

-I meant an incident room, no offence.

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-None taken.

-Well, speak for yourself.

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Now let's start again, shall we?

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I was the investigating officer so any questions you've got on the Union fire, anything at all, then...

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Well, the witness statements were sketchy.

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There was no establishment of a coherent timeline.

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There's barely any information about the possible motives regarding the deaths of the deceased.

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Let's take this into my office, shall we?

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Nice place you've got here.

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There are people out there I have to work with. I'd prefer some privacy.

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What happened to the witnesses?

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Most of them wouldn't admit to being there when the fire broke out.

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-Those that did, didn't know anything or see anything.

-Why do you think that was?

-I know why.

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If you've spent more than five minutes with the file so do you.

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Mark Johnson was a player.

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Nobody talked out of turn. Not to him, not about him.

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Not even after he died.

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This thing was dead in the water from day one.

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So given the chance, it was just easier to write it up as an accident?

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It wasn't just me, forensics pointed that way.

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-Forensics could have been wrong.

-I had no reason to think that.

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But you might have done if you'd spent a bit more time on it, dug a bit deeper.

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You don't know what it was like.

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-Operation Horatio had just been pulled, feelings were running high.

-Horatio...?

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Yeah, it was a drugs team, set up to clamp down on supply in West London.

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Mark Johnson was a name that kept cropping up.

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We had a surveillance team on him, some wire taps, a lot of manpower.

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But we didn't find what we needed,

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not enough to build a case against him.

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Then the brass pulled the plug about a month before the fire,

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it was getting too expensive.

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-That must have been frustrating.

-People were angry, I won't deny that.

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And so not too upset when Johnson turned up dead.

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I don't remember anyone crying into their beer.

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They just let it go, Petfield admitted as much.

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Brushed it under the carpet.

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So it's possible that Dawn Abbott's telling the truth.

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If she is, the fire was made to look like an accident when it wasn't.

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And there's nothing in the case file to indicate they found anything else, is there?

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Just a couple of baseball bats behind the bar and a gun in the male toilets.

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It was that sort of place. >

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What do we know about this contractor bloke then?

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-His name was Derek Ross.

-Have you contacted him?

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Not possible, not without a Ouija board... Died in 2001.

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But I have traced his wife.

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Oh, gold star for Gerry.

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But the point is, why did the fire spread so quickly if Ross had taken his stuff away?

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I blame Prometheus. Who, according to Greek mythology, stole fire from Zeus and gave it to us mere mortals.

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So this is all his fault, is it?

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Yeah, if it wasn't for him you'd be drinking your cocoa cold.

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Mind, he paid for it.

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He got tied to a rock and had his liver eaten by an eagle, day after day. Sorry.

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It's just a fascinating subject, is fire.

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I'm glad you think so, Brian, you can come with me.

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1996...

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-August, wasn't it?

-The fourth, you remember.

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I was the lead fire investigator at the time.

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Four people died, I should.

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Plus it was one of my last cases, I took early retirement about six months later.

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-We've recently received information that the fire may not have been an accident, Mr Mackie.

-Is that right?

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-You don't sound very surprised.

-I'm not.

-Why is that?

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Because I suspected it was arson at the time.

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Really? Cos there's no mention of that in the report?

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I couldn't prove it, beside the police had other ideas.

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Would you like some refreshment?

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Thank you.

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Derek was good with his hands,

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he just wasn't very good with money.

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Apart from spending it, of course.

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I have to do a couple of days a week in here just to keep things ticking over.

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At our age we should have our feet up.

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Mrs Ross, what kind of work did your husband actually do at the Union Club?

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He was a painter and decorator, nothing fancy.

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Do you remember the fire?

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I remember what happened afterwards.

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Derek had to talk to the police, he had to sign a statement.

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He must have been badly affected by it.

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Why? It wasn't his fault, it was an accident.

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Of course, it's just erm, what with four people dying.

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He didn't talk about it...

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but I suppose he was.

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-That's probably why he wanted to splash out on a holiday.

-A holiday?

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We had three weeks in Florida.

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A lovely hotel, a different restaurant every night.

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Was this soon after the fire?

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About a month later,

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after all the fuss had died down.

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Derek was owed some money from some job or other, he finally got paid so off we went.

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Of course we would have been better off saving something but - oh, no, it was a lovely holiday.

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It was the last proper one we had before he died.

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I can see that you're pretty adamant, Mr Mackie, but I'm not sure I understand why.

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-Do you know much about fire investigation?

-Afraid not.

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People will tell you it's a science nowadays, fluid dynamics is what they call it.

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And that's true to an extent,

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but it's also an art.

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A good investigator will have a feel for the fire itself.

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So you 'felt' it was arson?

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That was my first impression when I examined the scene.

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The burn patterns on the floor and the walls suggested multiple points of origin.

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Meaning there was an accelerant present.

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Exactly.

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What about the turpentine and paint thinner that were meant to have been left in the room?

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They would certainly qualify as accelerants, both burn at very high temperatures.

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Then I'm not sure I understand - where did this feeling come from?

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-Smoke.

-Smoke?

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And the flames.

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The materials you mention produce a white flame and brown smoke,

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but an onlooker reported seeing something different -

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yellow flame and black smoke.

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And that's the classic combination which is produced when petrol burns.

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-They could have been mistaken.

-Oh, absolutely.

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Arriving at that type of blaze, with all the people, there's confusion,

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there's panic but then I also found a small amount of melted rubber on the floor of the room.

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-What kind of rubber?

-Well, possibly a balloon, but more likely a condom.

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Well, a room in the back of a drinking club.

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And there was a little wax on the floor, from a candle I think.

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How very romantic.

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Not really.

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You light a candle...

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and then you suspend a condom over it,

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filled with your accelerant of choice.

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The candle burns through the rubber...

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And releases the liquid,

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it's a timer.

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A crude one but it can be extremely effective.

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So Derek Ross came into some money after the accident verdict?

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Enough for the holiday of a lifetime at least.

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Maybe his premium bonds came up.

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The odds on that are about 24,000 to one.

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What are the odds that he was paid to say he left the turpentine and paint thinner in the room?

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Considerably shorter, I should think.

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What about this person that Mark Johnson was worried about?

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We've asked for the files on Operation Horatio, transcripts on surveillance of Johnson.

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May give us some idea of what was going on around him at the time.

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-Was that out?

-Yeah, yeah.

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You put that cigarette out?

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Cause that bin's full of highly flammable material, you know.

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That's an inferno waiting to happen, is that.

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'Ere, happy now?

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I hope you're more careful at home, one in three house fires is caused by cigarettes, you know.

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-What about other witnesses?

-There were 30 people in that place at the time it went up,

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but according to Petfield he couldn't get more than four or five to admit they were even there.

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None of them would be likely to have changed their minds, even now.

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I found someone who might, David Swallow.

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He was part of Johnson's mob and he was in the Union that night.

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Why would he help us?

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He had first degree burns to half his body and spent over a year in hospital.

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That's as good a reason as any.

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There was only one way out, back down the stairs, through the main door.

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Could you tell where the fire started?

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Not at the time.

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It was so sudden...

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One minute everything was normal and then total panic.

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I remember people screaming,

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fighting to get out and the smell.

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I can still even now, I can taste that smell.

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I wake up with it, it'll never go away.

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BEEPING

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Excuse me please, for a moment.

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PHONE RINGS

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Yeah?

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Oh, great, yeah, yeah, bring him down.

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-Are you getting anywhere?

-No, most of it's gobbledy gook,

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like Johnson's talking in some kind of patois.

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But there is one name that keeps cropping up in his conversations around the right time,

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Stuart Russell. Well, whoever it is Johnson's not very happy with him.

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Well, I've got that name.

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Here, here,

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here again, all in the weeks before the fire.

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-Thanks.

-George!

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-Sorry to barge in uninvited.

-Jack, this is George Mackie.

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Ah, the fire investigator.

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-Nice to meet you.

-Hi.

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I put down a few thoughts on the Union fire at the time, notes just for myself, for reference really.

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I did so on all the fires I investigated, I dug it out the loft. I thought it might be useful.

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Look at that, thanks very much.

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So this is the control room, is it?

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The place where it all happens?

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Something like that. You're very kind, thank you very much.

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Thanks, George.

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The red ones are for the pain, the yellow are for rejection, the blue ones...

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well, I don't even remember.

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Every day, twice a day.

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I can barely move if I forget.

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We'd like to talk to you about Mark Johnson.

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I haven't got anything to say about him.

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You don't know what we're going to ask yet.

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Who didn't like him, who set the fire, whose fault was it I ended up like this?

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Why do you think it was anyone's fault, Mr Swallow?

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The official report said it was an accident.

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So what are you doing here asking me about it, then?

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I didn't have anything to say when it happened,

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what makes you think that would have changed?

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Time's passed, things do change.

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Mark Johnson's been dead for nearly 15 years.

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-He might be, but his brothers are still around.

-They'd be the first who'd want to know what happened.

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-You're assuming they don't already.

-You're saying that Johnson's brothers wanted to kill him?

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-What with Mark Johnson dead, Danny and Karl take over the business. It makes sense.

-Oh, I don't know.

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What's bothering you?

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Look, they were brothers and not just any old brothers. They were really close.

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You look funny at one of them, the other two are in your face before you know it.

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Families fall out, Gerry.

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See you tomorrow.

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My name is Jack Halford...

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My name is Jack Halford.

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What you doing?

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Fore! Hello, Danny.

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-It's all right Dom, he's an old friend.

-Oh, I wouldn't go that far.

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OK, old acquaintance then, how's that?

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-That's more like it.

-Here to work on your swing, Gerry?

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No, not exactly, no.

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Well, come and hit a few, Jojo just got a few more balls.

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So why now? What's changed?

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You lot weren't exactly all over it when it happened, you weren't interested.

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No, well, we're interested now.

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We've got some new information.

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What kind of information?

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You know I can't tell you that.

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I do, but you can't blame me for asking.

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Do you know who did it, Gerry?

0:18:200:18:22

-Do you know who killed Mark?

-Not yet, no.

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Whoa, bit hookie, son.

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Listen, how's Karl these days?

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I don't see much of him any more,

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he likes the sun more than I do.

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Or rather his missus does.

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He turns bright red if he sits in the sun for more than ten minutes at a time.

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So business is good, eh?

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Ah, the way the world is now, everybody needs security.

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You know what the kids are like, always looking for an excuse to start something.

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Yeah, only now of course, you only have to share the profits two ways, don't ya?

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I mean, it's just you and Karl, isn't it? Now that Mark's dead.

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What, you're saying we were involved?

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Is that what you're saying?

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That we'd kill our own brother, our own flesh and blood?

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Did you?

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I think you'd better go.

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Yeah, maybe you're right.

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I'm not on top of me game, anyway. Thank you.

0:19:230:19:26

You know it wasn't us, Gerry, you know that.

0:19:260:19:30

But if you do find out who it was, you should give me a heads-up. I'll make it worth your while.

0:19:300:19:34

Plus, on top of that, you'll save the taxpayer a few pounds.

0:19:340:19:39

Think about it, Gerry.

0:19:390:19:41

Give me a name!

0:19:410:19:43

It'd be a win-win for everybody.

0:19:430:19:45

What's that?

0:19:510:19:53

It's a new smoke alarm.

0:19:530:19:55

What's wrong with the ones we've got?

0:19:550:19:57

They're ionisation alarms, this is an optical unit.

0:19:570:20:01

What?

0:20:010:20:03

Well, it's more sensitive and it's got a carbon monoxide detector which... Ah!

0:20:030:20:08

SHRILL BEEPING

0:20:080:20:10

Ah, switch it off!

0:20:100:20:13

I can't, it won't.

0:20:130:20:15

Brian, please!

0:20:150:20:17

-It doesn't say how.

-Oh...

-It's not in here.

0:20:170:20:20

Oh, give it to me!

0:20:200:20:21

BEEPING STOPS

0:20:270:20:29

It definitely works.

0:20:350:20:37

These were taken yesterday.

0:20:430:20:45

The man on the left is Danny Johnson, the man next to him is obviously...

0:20:450:20:49

-Gerry.

-Exactly.

0:20:490:20:51

What's Standing doing with Johnson?

0:20:510:20:53

Carrying out enquiries, the Johnsons are involved with the Union Club fire.

0:20:530:20:57

-How so?

-The Johnson brothers own the club and the oldest, Mark, was killed in the fire. Who took the pictures?

0:20:570:21:02

An officer from the Projects Team on organised crime.

0:21:020:21:05

They've had Danny Johnson under surveillance.

0:21:050:21:07

-Are they getting anywhere?

-Nothing yet...

0:21:070:21:10

So, obviously, if you dig something up...

0:21:100:21:12

We all get to look good.

0:21:120:21:13

According to Strickland, the operation's been going on for more than a year.

0:21:160:21:22

Well, either Danny hasn't got anything to hide or he doesn't know about it.

0:21:220:21:25

-Who are the other people?

-A couple of heavies and that is some kid called Jojo,

0:21:250:21:29

who seems to be a general dogsbody.

0:21:290:21:31

Now, until I mentioned the fire, Danny was totally relaxed, every shot straight down the pipe.

0:21:310:21:38

Oh, yeah, you must have sliced a few though.

0:21:380:21:40

I did as it happens, how did you know?

0:21:400:21:42

Look at your right elbow, it's all wrong.

0:21:420:21:44

-Why?

-Well, here and there.

0:21:440:21:46

Look, it should be pointing towards your right hip.

0:21:460:21:48

-You're right, it's the old flying elbow.

-Exactly.

0:21:480:21:51

Ahem!

0:21:510:21:53

What do we think about Danny and Karl Johnson being involved in the fire?

0:21:530:21:56

I don't think so, I saw Danny's eyes.

0:21:560:21:59

There was real hatred there, he even offered me money to come up with a name.

0:21:590:22:02

-That could be a smoke screen, it doesn't mean he wasn't involved.

-No, I know that.

0:22:020:22:06

-I don't see it.

-If they weren't involved, where does that leave us?

0:22:060:22:09

Well, we might have something.

0:22:090:22:12

We've been going over the transcripts of Operation Horatio,

0:22:120:22:16

the original team that was trying to bring down Mark Johnson.

0:22:160:22:18

He was very clever. He always did business through somebody else, he never got his own hands dirty.

0:22:180:22:23

-When he had to talk to someone directly, he did it in the back of a black cab.

-Yeah.

0:22:230:22:27

He'd just hail one down and that's where he held his meetings.

0:22:270:22:30

The surveillance boys wired up a couple of cabs and had them circling the block.

0:22:300:22:34

They got lucky a few times and picked up some conversations.

0:22:340:22:36

I thought they couldn't find enough to use?

0:22:360:22:39

They didn't, but the thing is that a few months before the fire

0:22:390:22:43

the same name kept cropping up - Stuart Russell.

0:22:430:22:47

-Russell?

-Yeah. Why? Do you know him?

0:22:470:22:50

No, I don't think so, but I've seen that name recently.

0:22:500:22:54

-Who is he?

-Small time operator on the edge of Johnson's crew.

0:22:540:22:58

Oh, Russell, Russell...

0:22:580:22:59

-According to the transcripts, Johnson wasn't very happy with Russell.

-Why?

0:22:590:23:04

Well, Johnson was also very careful on those tapes.

0:23:040:23:08

-Everything was hinted at, nothing too overt.

-I've seen that name!

0:23:080:23:12

I know I have! Russell!

0:23:120:23:14

-Isn't that the wrong way round, I mean Johnson being angry with Russell?

-Well, yes, it is.

0:23:140:23:18

Except that six weeks before the fire, Russell was shot.

0:23:180:23:22

And there were no witnesses to it apart Russell himself and he wasn't talking.

0:23:220:23:26

-And you think that it was Johnson that shot him?

-Or one of his crew.

0:23:260:23:30

And he was discharged from hospital a week before the fire.

0:23:300:23:33

That's it! Hospital!

0:23:330:23:35

When we went to see Dawn Abbott, I was signing us in, right?

0:23:350:23:39

-Stuart Russell was one of her visitors.

-Are you sure?

0:23:390:23:44

Positive, it's in the book.

0:23:440:23:46

Hey, hey!

0:23:460:23:47

-Mr Russell?

-Yeah?

0:24:040:24:07

Detective Superintendent Pullman, this is Gerry Standing.

0:24:070:24:09

We'd like a word, if that's OK.

0:24:090:24:11

-What about?

-We're investigating the fire at the Union Club, back in '96.

0:24:110:24:15

What's that got to do with me?

0:24:150:24:17

We've been talking to Dawn Abbott and we know you have too.

0:24:170:24:20

I went round to see her, if that's what you mean.

0:24:200:24:21

-It has nothing to do with the fire.

-What was it to do with?

0:24:210:24:24

We're old mates, that's all. We go back a long way.

0:24:240:24:27

-So nothing to do with Mark Johnson then?

-No.

0:24:270:24:29

And nothing to do with you getting shot?

0:24:290:24:32

Mackie's got a real eye for detail.

0:24:340:24:37

Everything's written down. Look.

0:24:370:24:40

Ambient temperature outside, wind direction,

0:24:400:24:45

the chemical make-up of everything combustible in the building.

0:24:450:24:48

-It's really meticulous.

-Yeah, well Derek Ross certainly wasn't.

0:24:480:24:52

I got hold of some of his paperwork from the people that did his company accounts.

0:24:520:24:56

I'm trying to find out whether that cash he received after the fire was legit, but it's such a mess.

0:24:560:25:02

Well, his wife did say he wasn't very good with money.

0:25:020:25:05

Yeah, well, she was being kind.

0:25:050:25:07

JACK SIGHS

0:25:070:25:09

-What?

-Nothing.

0:25:110:25:14

-What!?

-No I, I was just wondering why you won't tell me what you're lecturing about?

0:25:210:25:27

Standard investigative procedures?

0:25:270:25:30

Well, not exactly.

0:25:300:25:32

Interviewing techniques, the role of forensic science?

0:25:320:25:35

-Serial killers.

-Serial killers?

0:25:370:25:40

Well, they wanted blood and gore, they said that's what people are really interested in.

0:25:400:25:45

Serial killers?

0:25:470:25:48

So what do you want to know?

0:25:550:25:57

We could start with who shot you, Mr Russell?

0:25:570:25:59

You're the police, I thought that was your job?

0:25:590:26:01

You didn't give us much to go on at the time. No description of the gunman, no possible motive.

0:26:010:26:06

I always thought it was a case of mistaken identity, myself.

0:26:060:26:09

That seems fairly unlikely given your record.

0:26:090:26:12

I mean you were hardly a boy scout, were you?

0:26:120:26:14

I was, as it happens, three badges.

0:26:140:26:17

Look, I was young and stupid, it was a long time ago.

0:26:170:26:20

I had a lot of time to think in that hospital,

0:26:200:26:23

-a lot of time to look at my life.

-What did you see?

0:26:230:26:27

Not much that I liked, not much at all.

0:26:270:26:30

So I made up my mind to change it, do something different,

0:26:300:26:33

something simpler, maybe, but something I could be proud of.

0:26:330:26:37

-So completely different to what you did for Mark Johnson?

-You could say that, yeah.

0:26:370:26:41

How did you feel when Johnson died, Mr Russell?

0:26:410:26:44

I didn't feel anything. Not one way or the other.

0:26:440:26:46

It was nothing to do with me.

0:26:460:26:48

Look can I get on?

0:26:500:26:51

Turned his life around, if I've heard that once...

0:26:520:26:56

Maybe it's true this time, he's not been arrested for anything

0:26:560:26:58

-since he came out of hospital, he's held down a steady job.

-Just like Derek Ross.

0:26:580:27:04

For two years after the fire, Derek Ross worked solidly.

0:27:040:27:08

For a minicab firm, a couple of local bars, a take-away.

0:27:080:27:12

Now that in itself is not unusual, but there was a connection.

0:27:120:27:17

Anyone got any ideas what that might be?

0:27:170:27:20

-Aren't you supposed to be telling us?

-Gerry?

0:27:200:27:23

-I don't know.

-How about you, Brian?

0:27:230:27:25

-Oh, give over, I'm not a bloody guinea pig.

-What's that mean?

0:27:250:27:30

He's practising on us!

0:27:300:27:32

He's lecturing at this university of the third age.

0:27:320:27:36

-Oh, thanks Brian.

-You?!

-THEY LAUGH

0:27:360:27:38

Yeah, well I just popped in to see if they had anything on offer and

0:27:380:27:42

when they found out I was a retired copper, they... I just got talked into it!

0:27:420:27:47

-Good for you, Jack.

-Gold star(!)

0:27:470:27:50

Well, go on then, what's the connection between them?

0:27:500:27:53

Well, all these businesses were controlled by the Johnson brothers.

0:27:530:27:57

They probably used them to clean their money. But the point is, they gave Derek Ross work.

0:27:570:28:02

Why would they do that if they thought he was at least partly responsible for Mark's death?

0:28:020:28:07

I expected better from you Gerry, not a couple of uniforms on my doorstep.

0:28:120:28:16

You're not under arrest Mr Johnson, I hope they made that clear.

0:28:160:28:20

-No.

-You're free to go at any time.

-Well, in that case...

0:28:200:28:23

As we're investigating the murder of your brother, I'd have thought you'd be only too willing to help.

0:28:230:28:27

-Unless you already know what happened.

-We had this conversation.

0:28:270:28:30

-Only the first part.

-You think I'm going to sit here and talk to you about my business?

0:28:300:28:34

No, no, not your business, your brother.

0:28:340:28:36

We're not looking into activities you may or may not have been involved in

0:28:360:28:39

at the time, Mr Johnson, it's not our concern.

0:28:390:28:42

Anything you say in this room is strictly off the record.

0:28:420:28:45

-I want your word on that.

-You have it.

0:28:450:28:47

-Not yours, I don't know you from Adam. I want his.

-You've got it.

0:28:470:28:51

We're only interested in the fire.

0:28:510:28:54

Well, we always knew it wasn't an accident.

0:28:560:28:59

We'd had all the right inspections, the place was done up nice.

0:28:590:29:02

But, there was a team of you lot looking straight at us, a special operation.

0:29:020:29:06

-Horatio?

-That's it.

0:29:060:29:09

-We were in the cross hairs.

-What and you knew about it?

0:29:090:29:12

-Of course we did.

-You had an informant within the force?

0:29:120:29:16

All right, all right. Nothing except the fire.

0:29:160:29:20

Now you'd called off the dogs and you didn't have anything on us.

0:29:200:29:24

And then Mark died in the fire.

0:29:240:29:25

And the last thing you needed was another investigation.

0:29:250:29:28

Yeah, we didn't want to risk it, we couldn't.

0:29:280:29:30

So you paid Derek Ross to say that he'd left turps and paint in that room at the Union?

0:29:300:29:35

Yeah, to make it look like it was an accident.

0:29:350:29:37

I mean it was easy enough, he worked in the place a couple of days before.

0:29:370:29:41

He was happy to earn a bit extra. As soon as he told you lot that, the whole thing disappeared.

0:29:410:29:44

Which meant you could go back to business as usual.

0:29:440:29:46

There was nothing usual about it, Mark was dead.

0:29:460:29:49

We turned over every rock we could think of,

0:29:510:29:54

but we just couldn't find anything.

0:29:540:29:56

And because you wouldn't talk to the police, you let his killer get away with it.

0:29:560:29:59

Yeah, Mark knew how it was.

0:30:010:30:03

He would have understood.

0:30:050:30:06

Thank you.

0:30:080:30:10

-Can I help you?

-Yeah, can I have...

0:30:160:30:19

-I'll have a packet of those.

-This one?

0:30:210:30:24

Down a bit.

0:30:240:30:26

Right.

0:30:270:30:29

-Condoms?

-Yeah.

-Normal, ribbed, extra sensitive?

0:30:290:30:35

Brian?

0:30:510:30:53

Brian?

0:30:550:30:56

Oh, bloody hell. What now?

0:30:590:31:02

Ah.

0:31:050:31:07

And?

0:31:070:31:09

And I'm getting through them, I can tell you.

0:31:090:31:12

But it's not what you're thinking.

0:31:120:31:14

The fire was started using some kind of timing device.

0:31:180:31:22

It seems simple enough.

0:31:220:31:25

Oh, aye, seems simple,

0:31:250:31:28

but the thing is...

0:31:280:31:30

It's not as easy as it looks.

0:31:460:31:49

How many times have you tried it?

0:31:490:31:51

Four. Each time, the same result.

0:31:510:31:54

The flame just goes out.

0:31:540:31:55

It can't be that hard?

0:31:550:31:58

Have you got another condom?

0:32:000:32:02

Shhh!

0:32:020:32:05

So if anything's not exactly right then it doesn't work.

0:32:050:32:08

And where does this GCSE experiment actually get us, Brian?

0:32:080:32:12

I don't know, but it seems to me that whoever set the fire either got very lucky

0:32:120:32:18

or they might have done it before.

0:32:180:32:19

Just a thought.

0:32:210:32:23

Oh, my God!

0:32:280:32:29

Mr Swallow! Mr Swallow!

0:32:300:32:34

Get out the way, get out the way.

0:32:340:32:36

-'Over.'

-Detective superintendent Pullman on scene at number six, Gordon House, W3...

0:32:400:32:45

-Mr Swallow?!

-There's smoke billowing out and we think someone's trapped inside.

0:32:450:32:49

-Is there anybody here?

-HE COUGHS

0:32:490:32:52

Gerry! SHE COUGHS

0:32:520:32:57

You all right?

0:33:000:33:02

-Yeah, just a bit of smoke in me lungs.

-Is he in there?

0:33:020:33:05

I couldn't see, the smoke's too thick.

0:33:050:33:07

Have a look!

0:33:100:33:12

-What happened?

-What does it look like?

-I was in the pub.

0:33:150:33:18

HOUSE EXPLODES

0:33:180:33:20

ALARM BLARES

0:33:200:33:22

-I could have been...

-Very easily.

0:33:220:33:25

It looks like someone doesn't like you very much.

0:33:250:33:28

Are you ready to tell us who, Mr Swallow?

0:33:280:33:31

-I didn't set fire to the Union, look at me.

-You need to do better than that.

0:33:310:33:34

You must have heard of poetic justice.

0:33:340:33:37

-Stuart Russell wanted Mark Johnson dead.

-Russell set the fire?

0:33:380:33:42

Oh, I don't know that.

0:33:420:33:44

But how do you know he wanted Johnson dead?

0:33:440:33:46

Because he asked me to shoot him.

0:33:480:33:51

Stuart was branching out, he was dealing drugs,

0:33:510:33:54

but using the Johnson name, they weren't going to have that.

0:33:540:33:57

-Which is why they tried to kill him.

-Yeah, but he survived,

0:33:570:34:03

he wanted revenge.

0:34:030:34:04

He hid a gun in the Union, in the gents,

0:34:060:34:09

-I was meant to use it.

-Why would you do that for him?

0:34:090:34:12

-Stuart wasn't working alone.

-What you were involved as well?

0:34:140:34:17

Up to my neck.

0:34:170:34:19

But Stuart never told anybody, even when he nearly died.

0:34:190:34:23

-So you thought that you owed him for being loyal to you?

-Oh, I did owe him.

0:34:230:34:27

If he told anybody, anybody,

0:34:270:34:29

I'd have been in hospital next to him or worse, probably.

0:34:290:34:34

I really appreciate you taking a look at this, George.

0:34:340:34:37

-I'm glad to help.

-So, I thought if, er...

0:34:370:34:41

Er, excuse me. This is still a restricted area.

0:34:410:34:44

I'm Brian Lane, I'm from UCOS.

0:34:440:34:45

-And who's this?

-I'm George Mackie.

0:34:450:34:48

I used to do your job.

0:34:480:34:50

Well, it was a while ago.

0:34:520:34:54

Special advisor.

0:34:540:34:56

Well, I shouldn't but erm... come on.

0:34:560:34:59

So what happened?

0:35:070:35:08

Why didn't you shoot Mark Johnson?

0:35:080:35:10

I just, I couldn't do it.

0:35:100:35:14

I thought I could but when it came down to it. I just...

0:35:140:35:18

Truth is I bottled it.

0:35:200:35:23

I didn't even pick up the gun, I just left it there.

0:35:230:35:25

Did you tell Russell that you weren't going to do it?

0:35:250:35:28

Did you tell him that you were pulling out, Mr Swallow?

0:35:310:35:34

Yeah, yeah, I did.

0:35:360:35:39

There are obvious signs of flashover, it was clearly an intense heat.

0:35:410:35:47

-What about accelerants?

-Nothing yet.

0:35:490:35:52

There was a rapid spread,

0:35:520:35:55

signs of flashes.

0:35:550:35:57

You'd expect there would probably be something, erm...

0:35:570:36:01

-Like this.

-What is it?

0:36:130:36:15

It's wax, from a candle.

0:36:170:36:19

Looks like it.

0:36:190:36:21

That's the same method as the Union fire.

0:36:210:36:23

It was there, on the floor, just like in the Union fire.

0:36:250:36:29

-What, candle wax?

-Yeah a little piece, a tiny little piece.

0:36:290:36:33

Well, its hardly conclusive proof that it was the same person who set both fires.

0:36:330:36:37

No, but it would makes sense if that person was Stuart Russell.

0:36:370:36:41

Because Swallow agreed to shoot Johnson, then decided that he couldn't go through with it.

0:36:410:36:45

What, and Russell takes it into his own hands?

0:36:450:36:48

Yep, a candle, a condom, a little bit of lighter fuel. Then whoosh.

0:36:480:36:53

Mark Johnson dies and Russell gets what he wanted.

0:36:530:36:56

Except, when we started digging, he became worried that Swallow might talk.

0:36:560:37:00

Well, it's possible.

0:37:020:37:04

You do know Swallow takes a load of different drugs, don't ya?

0:37:040:37:06

-They're prescription.

-Yeah, but you don't know what they might do, everything has side effects.

0:37:060:37:10

-We're not here to discuss his medication.

-Maybe you should be.

0:37:100:37:14

-It's obviously done something to his memory.

-Are you saying he's lying?

0:37:140:37:17

Lying is a strong word,

0:37:170:37:20

more likely he's just confused.

0:37:200:37:23

A bit hazy about the details.

0:37:230:37:25

He seems to remember you getting shot, very clearly.

0:37:250:37:27

And you wanting revenge on Johnson.

0:37:270:37:30

It's a long time ago. I wouldn't take it very seriously.

0:37:300:37:32

It's our job to take it seriously, Mr Russell, and you should too.

0:37:320:37:36

In that case I'll be as clear as I can.

0:37:360:37:38

I didn't try and kill Johnson, I didn't set any fires. Is that enough for ya?

0:37:380:37:41

No, not quite. Let's go back to where you were at lunchtime.

0:37:410:37:44

I told you, I brought a sandwich, I went and sat in the park.

0:37:440:37:47

I like a bit of peace and quiet during the day.

0:37:470:37:49

-Did you see anyone there?

-Not to talk to.

-That's convenient.

-Well, it's the truth, isn't it?

0:37:490:37:54

-Unless there's anything else?

-We'll be in touch.

0:37:540:37:58

Your theory is that Johnson shot me.

0:37:580:38:01

That's right, because you were using his name.

0:38:010:38:04

-In which case he probably didn't like me very much.

-I shouldn't think he did.

0:38:040:38:07

Well, how exactly am I meant to have hidden a gun in his club then?

0:38:070:38:10

-Er, two pints of bitter and a fizzy water please.

-Two?

0:38:200:38:24

Oh, sorry, one pint of bitter and a fizzy water. I was forgetting.

0:38:240:38:28

I think Russell's right you know.

0:38:300:38:32

It wouldn't have been easy to plant that gun in there.

0:38:320:38:35

We know Johnson was very keen on security.

0:38:350:38:38

Yeah, but where there's a will there's a way.

0:38:380:38:41

But why would he want to set fire to the place?

0:38:410:38:43

Well, he wanted Johnson dead and Swallow pulled out.

0:38:430:38:46

Yeah, but just by setting a fire, he couldn't be sure that it would kill Johnson, could he?

0:38:460:38:50

There was no way of knowing.

0:38:500:38:52

Maybe he just got lucky.

0:38:520:38:54

Very lucky, as Jack said.

0:38:540:38:56

Do you think he'll be all right?

0:38:580:39:00

-Who?

-Jack?

0:39:000:39:03

-Oh, yeah.

-What if no bugger turns up?

0:39:030:39:07

No, that's not going to happen, is it?

0:39:070:39:09

-Cheers.

-Cheers.

-I've been looking forward to this all day.

0:39:110:39:14

How can we know though?

0:39:140:39:16

What if he's all on his lonesome?

0:39:180:39:20

There's nothing we can do about it, he didn't tell us where it is.

0:39:200:39:24

We're detectives, Gerry.

0:39:240:39:27

Yes, Brian, and I'm having a pint.

0:39:270:39:30

Blimey, are all these people here to see Jack?

0:39:360:39:40

No, they can't be.

0:39:400:39:43

There must be something else going on.

0:39:430:39:44

Ladies and gentlemen, if you'd like to take your seats, then we can begin. Thank you very much.

0:39:480:39:54

They bloody are, you know.

0:39:540:39:56

-Oh, come on then, let's sit down.

-What for?

0:40:000:40:02

Well, we're here now, aren't we?

0:40:020:40:04

-JACK CLEARS HIS THROAT

-Bit of moral support.

0:40:130:40:15

Good evening.

0:40:150:40:17

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

0:40:170:40:20

My name is Jack Halford and I'm a retired detective.

0:40:200:40:26

I spent over 30 years as a police officer

0:40:260:40:28

-investigating a wide range of criminals...

-He's good, isn't he?

0:40:280:40:31

..including on occasion, individuals who might be described as

0:40:310:40:39

serial killers, which is the subject of today's talk.

0:40:390:40:43

If we ignore the special circumstances surrounding the

0:40:450:40:50

Harold Shipman case, we will find that Britain's most prolific serial killer was Dennis Nilsen.

0:40:500:40:57

-It's not true.

-What?

0:40:570:40:59

Nilsen was arrested in February 1983 but his killing spree had started some five years earlier.

0:41:010:41:08

The most prolific killer isn't Nilsen...

0:41:080:41:10

-Sshhh.

-It's Peter Dinsdale.

0:41:100:41:13

Erm, Nilsen worked as a civil servant,

0:41:150:41:20

he was quiet and unassuming.

0:41:200:41:23

Not the sort of person you would give a second glance to, and yet he murdered 15 people.

0:41:230:41:29

Dinsdale murdered nearly twice that many.

0:41:290:41:32

After, after cutting up their bodies, he then disposed of them

0:41:320:41:37

under the floorboards and in the drains of his property.

0:41:370:41:41

-26 people Dinsdale killed.

-And, and when, when the police came to arrest him...

0:41:410:41:46

Nearly twice as many.

0:41:460:41:49

I'm sorry, Mr...?

0:41:490:41:51

Yes, you in the coat, Mr...?

0:41:510:41:53

Well, you know who I am.

0:41:530:41:56

You have something to say.

0:41:560:41:57

Perhaps you'd like to share it with the rest of us?

0:41:570:42:00

-No.

-Oh, what a shame, I'm sure we'd all love to have heard what you had to say!

0:42:000:42:06

-It was nothing.

-It must have been something!

0:42:090:42:11

And what's that?!

0:42:110:42:14

-What?

-That piece of paper, that note he handed to you.

0:42:140:42:18

I'm sure we're all dying to find out what was written in that!

0:42:180:42:23

-Well?

-No, no, no, it's nothing to do with me.

0:42:230:42:26

Well, it must be to do with you because you wrote it!

0:42:260:42:29

I said...

0:42:310:42:33

-I was just saying that Britain's most prolific serial killer isn't Nilsen.

-Really?!

0:42:340:42:41

It's Peter Dinsdale.

0:42:410:42:44

Dinsdale was convicted of manslaughter, not murder.

0:42:440:42:48

He killed 26 people. Are you telling me that doesn't count?

0:42:480:42:51

Not at all, but Dinsdale was an arsonist.

0:42:510:42:54

The deaths were a by-product of the fire, he did not set out to kill people.

0:42:540:42:59

Which is why it took so long to catch him.

0:42:590:43:01

The investigations concentrated on the victims

0:43:010:43:05

and who wanted them dead, rather than on the fire itself.

0:43:050:43:08

And some of them were deemed accidental and they were not linked for years, but the point is...

0:43:080:43:13

The point is...

0:43:160:43:19

this is not the time, nor the place for this discussion.

0:43:190:43:22

Sit down.

0:43:220:43:24

I apologise, ladies and gentlemen,

0:43:250:43:28

now where were we?

0:43:280:43:30

You see, the investigations focused on the victims

0:43:300:43:33

and who wanted them dead, rather than on the fire itself.

0:43:330:43:37

The problem was that Dinsdale wasn't targeting anyone in particular.

0:43:370:43:42

It wasn't about the victims, it was about the fire and what happened afterwards.

0:43:420:43:46

-Afterwards?

-Yeah, he'd turn up when the fire engines arrived,

0:43:460:43:50

and he'd stand in the crowd and watch them fight the blaze.

0:43:500:43:52

He wanted to be a part of it, you see.

0:43:520:43:55

He wanted to be involved and that's partly what drove him to set the fires in the first place.

0:43:550:44:00

Thank you.

0:44:010:44:03

Very much.

0:44:030:44:05

-A serial arsonist?

-It's a possibility.

0:44:130:44:16

We found seven similar fires, in pubs and clubs, before and after the Union fire.

0:44:160:44:21

But you don't have evidence connecting them to any individual?

0:44:210:44:24

Not yet. We'd have to start again from scratch, look at things in a completely different way.

0:44:240:44:28

Yeah, but you don't have any evidence.

0:44:280:44:30

We just told you.

0:44:300:44:32

I don't mean a theory, Brian, I mean something that we can prove.

0:44:320:44:35

We've already got a solid suspect.

0:44:350:44:37

Well, how did Russell get that gun into the Union?!

0:44:370:44:40

I don't know Jack, we'll just have to find out!

0:44:400:44:43

-SHE RINGS THE BUZZER

-'Hello?'

-Mrs Wilde?

-'Yep.'

0:44:480:44:54

Detective Superintendent Pullman.

0:44:540:44:56

I'd like a word with you, if that's all right.

0:44:560:44:58

DOOR BUZZES OPEN

0:44:590:45:01

You took your time.

0:45:040:45:06

-Excuse me?

-I don't know what's going on upstairs, but there

0:45:060:45:09

are people coming and going all night, playing music...

0:45:090:45:12

It's not about upstairs, Mrs Wilde, it's about your daughter Hailey.

0:45:120:45:15

We're reinvestigating the fire at the Union Club

0:45:150:45:17

and I was wondering if I could have a few minutes of your time?

0:45:170:45:20

Thank you.

0:45:230:45:25

Hailey had been in some trouble but no more than any others around here.

0:45:260:45:31

The difference was, she wanted to do something about it.

0:45:310:45:34

She was going to go back to college, the job was just to tide her over,

0:45:340:45:38

just weekends to earn some money. She wanted to make a clean start,

0:45:380:45:43

but she never got the chance.

0:45:430:45:46

Did she ever talk to you about the job?

0:45:460:45:47

-People she met, anything like that?

-Sometimes.

0:45:470:45:52

She said it could get pretty rowdy in there some nights.

0:45:520:45:55

Did she ever mention a man called Russell, Stuart Russell?

0:45:550:45:58

I don't think so, who is he?

0:45:580:46:00

He was an associate of Mark Johnson's, he used to drink in the Union from time to time.

0:46:000:46:04

-She probably would've seen him.

-I don't remember the name.

0:46:040:46:07

Well, I appreciate your time, Mrs Wilde.

0:46:070:46:09

Your child doesn't die before you, they don't do it.

0:46:120:46:19

It's unnatural.

0:46:190:46:21

I'm sorry for your loss.

0:46:230:46:25

Did you say weekends Mrs Wilde? Hailey only worked weekends?

0:46:300:46:33

-Yeah, that's right.

-But the fire was on a Thursday.

0:46:330:46:36

She wasn't even meant to be there. She wasn't working that night.

0:46:360:46:39

-She got a call, they needed her to come in.

-Who called, do you know?

0:46:390:46:43

Dawn, Dawn, Dawn Abbott.

0:46:430:46:45

She was a friend of Hailey's. She, er, she got her the job.

0:46:450:46:50

-Jojo was sick.

-Who's Jojo?

0:46:500:46:53

Dawn's son, his name's John but everbody's always called him Jojo.

0:46:530:46:59

Dawn needed Hailey to work her shift.

0:46:590:47:03

We seem to have a little problem, Dawn.

0:47:070:47:10

-What's that?

-You haven't told us everything you know.

0:47:100:47:14

In fact, you've left out some rather salient details.

0:47:140:47:19

-Like what?

-Like you were meant to be working the night

0:47:190:47:21

of the fire. It was supposed to be you behind that bar, not Hailey Wilde.

0:47:210:47:24

I didn't know anything about the fire, I swear I didn't.

0:47:240:47:27

But you knew something was happening, because Stuart Russell

0:47:270:47:30

asked you to take a gun into the club. Didn't he?

0:47:300:47:32

Come on, it's the only way he could have got a weapon in there.

0:47:340:47:38

He needed someone on the inside and that someone was you.

0:47:380:47:41

Mark was always wary. He knew there were plenty of people

0:47:430:47:46

who would take a swing at him or worse if they had a chance.

0:47:460:47:50

I brought the gun in, I was on the inside.

0:47:530:47:56

How far inside? Did you know about Ross?

0:47:560:47:58

Did you know that Danny and Karl had paid him off?

0:47:580:48:01

Well, it was obvious when he said all his stuff was still in the room.

0:48:010:48:04

They set the fire and tried to make it look like an accident.

0:48:040:48:07

-No.

-What?

-Danny and Karl Johnson didn't set that fire.

0:48:070:48:13

You've been pushing us in that direction,

0:48:130:48:15

but that's not what happened. What have you got against them?

0:48:150:48:18

But it's not that though, is it?

0:48:180:48:21

It's what they've got of yours.

0:48:210:48:23

It's about your son, Jojo.

0:48:230:48:26

They'll just use him up and spit him out.

0:48:310:48:33

He doesn't understand that,

0:48:350:48:37

he thinks it's exciting. He thinks he's a big man.

0:48:370:48:41

But he's just a boy, that's all he is.

0:48:410:48:43

So that's why you decided to come forward.

0:48:430:48:46

You believe that Danny and Karl are guilty, and you thought if we

0:48:460:48:49

found that out then Jojo would have to find a new line of work.

0:48:490:48:53

He doesn't listen to me. I've tried,

0:48:530:48:55

but he doesn't hear what I'm saying. And you thought we'd shout louder.

0:48:550:48:58

That's not what we're here for.

0:48:580:49:01

They weren't yours, were they?

0:49:050:49:08

The drugs, the reason you're in here.

0:49:080:49:11

They were Jojo's.

0:49:110:49:13

-You did all of this for him.

-He's my son.

0:49:130:49:16

I'm his mother, I'm meant to protect him.

0:49:180:49:20

Hi, Jack, can you and Brian go over to Stuart Russell's place

0:49:250:49:28

and make sure he doesn't go anywhere before I arrive?

0:49:280:49:31

Yeah, and get Gerry to meet us there too.

0:49:310:49:33

Cheers, bye.

0:49:330:49:35

Am I actually under arrest?

0:49:370:49:39

As we explained, we're waiting for Detective Superintendent Pullman.

0:49:390:49:42

Well you really didn't need to come upstairs with me.

0:49:420:49:45

We're under strict instructions not to let you out of our sight.

0:49:450:49:48

What? Both of you?

0:49:480:49:50

-DOOR BELL RINGS

-I'll go.

0:49:500:49:52

-You all right?

-We're upstairs, with Russell.

0:50:060:50:11

-Where's the kitchen?

-Through there.

-I'll put the kettle on, shall I?

0:50:110:50:14

All right, good lad. I'll have tea.

0:50:140:50:16

-All right.

-I'll have a sugar this time, put it in before the milk.

0:50:160:50:19

All right.

0:50:190:50:21

Boys!

0:50:380:50:40

Jack! Brian!

0:50:400:50:44

-Oi!

-What's going on?

-We've got to get out of here.

0:50:450:50:48

Jack! Jack! The whole bloody house is on fire.

0:50:480:50:50

-No back, get in there.

-Close that door, close it!

0:50:520:50:56

GLASS SMASHES

0:50:590:51:03

Yes, yes, it is 79, Hambrook Road. Thank you.

0:51:030:51:08

-THEY GROAN AND COUGH

-Open that window.

0:51:140:51:19

SIRENS APPROACH

0:51:190:51:22

I don't understand it, we didn't hear a thing.

0:51:240:51:26

Don't worry about that now, we have to stop this smoke getting in here.

0:51:260:51:30

All right! Quick as we can!

0:51:370:51:40

This window's locked!

0:51:540:51:56

Get up, get up. Brian, out the way.

0:51:570:52:00

Detective Superintendent Pullman, I'm looking for...

0:52:040:52:07

WINDOW SMASHES

0:52:070:52:09

Stand back, folks!

0:52:110:52:13

I really appreciate you coming in.

0:52:160:52:19

I'm happy to help.

0:52:190:52:21

We've been looking through your notes.

0:52:210:52:24

Were they of any use to you?

0:52:240:52:25

Very interesting.

0:52:250:52:27

Good, good.

0:52:270:52:29

So how's the investigation going then?

0:52:290:52:31

It's taken an unexpected turn, so we were rather hoping we could pick your brains.

0:52:310:52:36

Anything I can do.

0:52:360:52:38

We think we've been looking at this the wrong way, at the victims instead of at the fire itself.

0:52:380:52:44

We've found seven similar fires.

0:52:440:52:46

We think we might be dealing with a serial arsonist.

0:52:460:52:48

Someone who's been active for two decades or more, but that's not really our area of expertise.

0:52:480:52:55

-Which is why we called you.

-Well, Arson is a very specialised crime.

0:52:550:52:59

Exactly.

0:52:590:53:00

So, we thought you might be able to give us some kind of handle on it.

0:53:000:53:04

Use your years of experience and tell us about the type of person we should be looking for.

0:53:040:53:09

Well, first of all he'd be meticulous, a careful planner.

0:53:090:53:15

-Obsessive?

-Well, others might say that, but I wouldn't. He'd be intelligent.

0:53:150:53:20

He'd have to be to get away with it for so long, and of course he'd have to know about fires.

0:53:200:53:23

How to set them, how they burn.

0:53:230:53:28

I mean using that candle and condom trick wasn't very easy, I've tried it.

0:53:280:53:32

He'd be an expert, all right.

0:53:320:53:34

Yeah, he'd have to feel at home with fire, comfortable with it.

0:53:340:53:36

-That's right.

-What about his motivation?

0:53:360:53:38

-What would drive him?

-That's hard to say.

0:53:380:53:42

The excitement, the thrill?

0:53:420:53:44

-I suppose it's possible.

-Perhaps he was desperate to feel important?

0:53:440:53:48

Important? I don't see...

0:53:500:53:52

We light them, we fight them.

0:53:520:53:54

-We what?

-That was the slogan of four American firefighters who were found guilty of arson.

0:53:540:54:00

They'd light the fires, then wait for the call and go and put them out.

0:54:000:54:03

They wanted to be the centre of the action, the centre of attention. Heroes, men who saved the day.

0:54:030:54:08

Is that what you wanted, George?

0:54:100:54:12

Me?

0:54:140:54:15

-You think that I...

-We know you did.

0:54:170:54:19

The fires stopped after you retired.

0:54:210:54:24

But then we came to you for help so we were the spark, weren't we?

0:54:240:54:28

-A serial arsonist, it could be anyone.

-No, it couldn't,

0:54:280:54:32

it could only be somebody who saw the names on that board.

0:54:320:54:35

Someone who knew that David Swallow and Stuart Russell were part of our investigation.

0:54:350:54:41

You were a fire investigator, but it wasn't enough.

0:54:410:54:44

No, you wanted to turn up and be in charge.

0:54:440:54:46

You wanted everyone to look at you.

0:54:460:54:48

-No.

-You had to be in control, the top man. That's what made you excited.

0:54:480:54:52

-No, you're wrong.

-You had to feel important.

0:54:520:54:54

FEEL IMPORTANT!

0:54:540:54:57

I was...

0:54:590:55:01

I was important.

0:55:050:55:08

I was!

0:55:090:55:11

-He's put his hand up to setting 63 fires.

-63?!

0:55:160:55:20

Yeah, including the Union club of course.

0:55:200:55:22

How did he know about Swallow and Russell?

0:55:220:55:25

They weren't hard to find.

0:55:250:55:27

What about the Johnson brothers?

0:55:270:55:29

Victims in this case I'm afraid sir, not perps, never mind, we'll get them next time.

0:55:290:55:33

-Oh, Jack, can I have a word?

-Yes, sir.

0:55:330:55:35

I heard about your lectures.

0:55:350:55:37

News travels fast, I think it's fantastic.

0:55:370:55:40

-Really?

-And it made me think, all that experience you've got up here, all that knowledge - what better to

0:55:400:55:45

do with it than to pass it on to junior officers, new recruits...

0:55:450:55:48

-Oh, no, I don't think it's a very good...

-Let me tell you what I'm thinking.

0:55:480:55:51

-A weekly talk perhaps, with a Q&A at the end.

-It was just a one off, sir.

0:55:510:55:55

A chance for them to pick your brain.

0:55:550:55:57

It would really be an opportunity to...

0:55:570:55:59

FIRE ALARM SOUNDS

0:55:590:56:03

# It's all right It's OK

0:56:100:56:12

# Doesn't really matter if you're old and grey

0:56:120:56:15

# It's all right I say it's OK

0:56:150:56:18

# Listen to what I say

0:56:180:56:21

# It's all right, doing fine

0:56:210:56:23

# Doesn't really matter if the sun don't shine

0:56:230:56:26

# It's all right I say it's OK

0:56:260:56:29

# We're gettin' to the end of the day. #

0:56:290:56:32

Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd

0:56:320:56:34

Email [email protected]

0:56:340:56:37

When serious criminal Mark Johnson was killed in a fatal fire at London's Union club in 1996, a wall of silence among witnesses and associates plagued the investigation. With fresh information suggesting that the blaze was a targeted arson attack, UCOS reopen the case, but does Johnson's legacy of fear live on, and will anyone risk talking to the team?


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