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Heir hunters spend their lives tracking down the families of people who have died without a will. | 0:00:02 | 0:00:07 | |
They hand over thousands of pounds to long-lost relatives | 0:00:07 | 0:00:09 | |
who had no idea they were in line for a windfall. | 0:00:09 | 0:00:13 | |
Could they be knocking at your door? | 0:00:13 | 0:00:17 | |
On today's programme: | 0:00:32 | 0:00:36 | |
the heir hunters encounter a man who left £35,000 but spent his last 40 years sleeping rough. | 0:00:36 | 0:00:43 | |
I don't think he wanted any assistance, to be honest. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:47 | |
I think he was content in what he was doing. | 0:00:47 | 0:00:49 | |
And an entire office work against the clock to find heirs for a valuable estate. | 0:00:49 | 0:00:55 | |
It's not yet quarter past eight, so if it is the right family | 0:00:55 | 0:01:00 | |
and it's all correct, then that's not bad going. | 0:01:00 | 0:01:03 | |
And we'll have details of some of the hundreds of unclaimed estates. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:07 | |
Could you be in line for a windfall? | 0:01:07 | 0:01:10 | |
More than two-thirds of people die without leaving a will. | 0:01:10 | 0:01:14 | |
If they have no obvious relatives, their money goes to the government | 0:01:14 | 0:01:18 | |
who last year made a staggering £18 million from unclaimed estates. | 0:01:18 | 0:01:22 | |
That's where the heir hunters step in. | 0:01:22 | 0:01:25 | |
Hi, I'm Paul Matthews from Frazer and Frazer. | 0:01:25 | 0:01:29 | |
There are more than 30 heir hunting companies who, for a share of | 0:01:29 | 0:01:33 | |
the estate, make it their business to track down the rightful kin. | 0:01:33 | 0:01:37 | |
Last year, they claimed back £6.5 million for unsuspecting heirs | 0:01:37 | 0:01:41 | |
who otherwise would have gone empty-handed. | 0:01:41 | 0:01:45 | |
Our job is incredibly exciting. | 0:01:45 | 0:01:46 | |
We're tracing family trees, delving back into people's history, delving | 0:01:46 | 0:01:50 | |
back in time, looking at the hidden mysteries around people's families. | 0:01:50 | 0:01:54 | |
Frazer and Frazer are one of the UK's largest heir-hunting companies. | 0:02:00 | 0:02:03 | |
This morning, they've been looking over the government list of people | 0:02:03 | 0:02:06 | |
who have died without a will which has just been published. | 0:02:06 | 0:02:10 | |
And although it's only 7.15am, they're already working a case | 0:02:10 | 0:02:14 | |
that's grabbed their attention - that of Irene Shepherd. | 0:02:14 | 0:02:18 | |
They believe she owned and sold a property in Worcestershire worth an estimated £200,000. | 0:02:20 | 0:02:26 | |
As the sale was only four years ago, most of this money could still be in her estate. | 0:02:26 | 0:02:31 | |
It looks as though we've found the deceased birth and deceased parents. | 0:02:31 | 0:02:37 | |
We have their names. For the moment, we're just searching for their | 0:02:37 | 0:02:41 | |
deaths and that'll hopefully give us their dates of birth, and from that, | 0:02:41 | 0:02:45 | |
-we'll get up and running. -With a case of such value, the team are working | 0:02:45 | 0:02:50 | |
quickly, as other companies are bound to be interested. | 0:02:50 | 0:02:54 | |
They know that Irene had a sister Rosie and her parents were | 0:02:54 | 0:02:57 | |
Charles Danks and Lily Williams, all of whom have died. | 0:02:57 | 0:03:02 | |
If Irene didn't have any surviving children, the office will need to | 0:03:02 | 0:03:05 | |
research the Danks and the Williams families to find heirs. | 0:03:05 | 0:03:09 | |
Irene Shepherd died in 2008 aged 87 in Redditch, Worcestershire. | 0:03:13 | 0:03:17 | |
Her friend and neighbour Jim Mills lived on her street and knew her for over 15 years. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:24 | |
Rene would be about | 0:03:24 | 0:03:26 | |
five foot tall, | 0:03:28 | 0:03:30 | |
a little dumpy person - | 0:03:31 | 0:03:34 | |
well, not, actually, fat or anything, | 0:03:34 | 0:03:38 | |
a typical little dumpy person, grey hair, | 0:03:38 | 0:03:42 | |
she had to use a stick to walk. | 0:03:42 | 0:03:46 | |
She could be a good laugh at times, I can assure you. | 0:03:48 | 0:03:53 | |
Irene and Jim shared a joke on the street where she lived over many years. | 0:03:53 | 0:03:57 | |
And he remembers her as a charismatic lady. | 0:03:57 | 0:04:00 | |
She didn't suffer fools gladly. | 0:04:03 | 0:04:06 | |
But once she got to know you, she was a real good friend. | 0:04:07 | 0:04:11 | |
But our most enjoyable times was when we used to walk down the road. | 0:04:16 | 0:04:20 | |
Something as silly as that. | 0:04:20 | 0:04:23 | |
We used to have a laugh and a joke. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:26 | |
Because Irene died without leaving a will, her estimated £200,000 estate | 0:04:26 | 0:04:31 | |
will all go to the Treasury unless heirs can be found. | 0:04:31 | 0:04:34 | |
The team already know that Irene's parents were Charles Danks and Lily Williams. | 0:04:40 | 0:04:45 | |
But as Williams is the third most common surname in England and Wales, | 0:04:45 | 0:04:48 | |
they are working on her father's family name Danks first. | 0:04:48 | 0:04:53 | |
They have had a lucky break using the Census as a research tool. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:57 | |
The Census is a national survey conducted every ten years | 0:05:00 | 0:05:03 | |
that provides vital heir-hunting information, | 0:05:03 | 0:05:05 | |
such as names, ages and genders of people living in any given address at the time of the survey. | 0:05:05 | 0:05:11 | |
The 1911 Census includes Irene's father's household. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:15 | |
So, it's really progressed very quickly because of the Census. | 0:05:19 | 0:05:22 | |
We've just identified as the top line | 0:05:22 | 0:05:26 | |
births to the aunt and uncles of the deceased on the paternal side. | 0:05:26 | 0:05:32 | |
Unfortunately, for us, it looks like | 0:05:32 | 0:05:35 | |
the grandmother has ten children. | 0:05:35 | 0:05:38 | |
Now, worst case scenario is they all have two children, and they have two children, | 0:05:38 | 0:05:42 | |
and those are the ones we find, we're suddenly up to 30-odd beneficiaries. | 0:05:42 | 0:05:45 | |
We'll have to see how it pans out in a few moments' time. | 0:05:45 | 0:05:50 | |
Such a vital tool in anyone searching family history, | 0:05:52 | 0:05:57 | |
that it just gives you the full details of the family without really doing a huge amount of work. | 0:05:57 | 0:06:03 | |
With the help of the Census, the team know that Irene's father Charles Danks had nine siblings. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:13 | |
Two died in infancy, but there were seven surviving brothers and sisters. | 0:06:13 | 0:06:18 | |
Elsie, Joseph Ann, Albert, Walter, Phyllis and Frank. | 0:06:20 | 0:06:27 | |
If they all had children, Irene would have had a myriad | 0:06:27 | 0:06:30 | |
of cousins and potential heirs, so the team have plenty of work to do. | 0:06:30 | 0:06:34 | |
What we're endeavouring to do is | 0:06:36 | 0:06:38 | |
locate the deaths for all the males. | 0:06:38 | 0:06:42 | |
Invariably, the females are going to be married so we're not going | 0:06:42 | 0:06:47 | |
to know until we find the marriages what their surnames are. | 0:06:47 | 0:06:50 | |
But we can go straight for the male lines. | 0:06:50 | 0:06:53 | |
If the team can find death records for the men in the Danks family, they can dispatch researchers | 0:06:53 | 0:06:58 | |
to go and pick up death certificates which will confirm their research. | 0:06:58 | 0:07:03 | |
In anticipation of this, case manager David is | 0:07:03 | 0:07:06 | |
briefing one of their travelling researchers Paul Matthews on the details of Irene's case. | 0:07:06 | 0:07:12 | |
Looks like we may have a valuable one in Redditch. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:17 | |
Irene Lilla Danks? Danks married Douglas Hague Shepard. | 0:07:17 | 0:07:22 | |
S-H-E-P-A-R-D. | 0:07:22 | 0:07:24 | |
The office have a whole team of travelling heir hunters | 0:07:28 | 0:07:31 | |
who can be sent anywhere around the globe in the race to find heirs. | 0:07:31 | 0:07:34 | |
Being at the right place at the right time can mean getting to | 0:07:34 | 0:07:38 | |
a neighbour, certificate, or an heir before any of the other companies. | 0:07:38 | 0:07:42 | |
Being first means having the best chance of getting a commission. | 0:07:42 | 0:07:46 | |
As there are eight branches of the family to research, | 0:07:55 | 0:07:57 | |
Paul is being joined by another travelling heir hunter, Bob Barrett. | 0:07:57 | 0:08:02 | |
And in the office, it's furiously busy. | 0:08:02 | 0:08:07 | |
As Irene's estate is worth an estimated £200,000, the entire office are working on it. | 0:08:07 | 0:08:11 | |
They hope that they can get results in fast and beat the competition. | 0:08:11 | 0:08:16 | |
It's been a fairly crazy sort of hour, really, trying to pin all this case together. | 0:08:21 | 0:08:25 | |
We've only got the one case which we're running at the moment which has made it particularly hard, | 0:08:25 | 0:08:32 | |
really, because we've suddenly got all the staff in. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:35 | |
As you can see around us, there are 25 people in this room. | 0:08:35 | 0:08:39 | |
We're all working on the same case at the moment, and I've been trying to get the five minutes to | 0:08:39 | 0:08:45 | |
take a breath and make sure we're all working on what we should be working. | 0:08:45 | 0:08:49 | |
But there's no breathing time for Neil. | 0:08:49 | 0:08:52 | |
The team are close to finding heirs already. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:55 | |
Just been looking for to see if I can find current addresses | 0:08:56 | 0:09:02 | |
for a Brian and a Peter, and a Colin Golby. | 0:09:02 | 0:09:06 | |
They're all first cousins of the deceased on the father's side. | 0:09:06 | 0:09:11 | |
It's not yet quarter past eight, | 0:09:11 | 0:09:13 | |
so if it is the right family and it's all correct, then it's not bad going. | 0:09:13 | 0:09:18 | |
Bryan Golby is Irene's cousin through her Aunt Ann. | 0:09:21 | 0:09:24 | |
Ann Danks married a William Golby and had four children, one of whom was Brian. | 0:09:24 | 0:09:29 | |
David Pacifico | 0:09:36 | 0:09:38 | |
is trying to reach Bryan. To confirm that he is an heir, | 0:09:38 | 0:09:41 | |
David is asking a few questions about his family. | 0:09:41 | 0:09:45 | |
What family, if any, did she have? | 0:09:46 | 0:09:48 | |
Yes. | 0:09:50 | 0:09:52 | |
Thank you. Bye-bye. | 0:09:52 | 0:09:54 | |
That was a cousin. | 0:09:56 | 0:09:57 | |
He can't fit us in today, but we can see him tomorrow morning. | 0:09:57 | 0:10:00 | |
Good news. By 8.30am, they've confirmed their first heir. | 0:10:00 | 0:10:05 | |
Downstairs in the research room, Gareth is working on finding other members of Irene's father's family. | 0:10:05 | 0:10:11 | |
At the moment, because the main bulk of the research | 0:10:11 | 0:10:14 | |
has been done, so we've done the marriage searches, we've done | 0:10:14 | 0:10:18 | |
the births and death searches, so now I'm starting to look at other records that might be available. | 0:10:18 | 0:10:23 | |
Army records are very good usually because they give you an awful lot | 0:10:23 | 0:10:27 | |
of information that you don't normally have access to. | 0:10:27 | 0:10:30 | |
Many of Irene's uncles would have been old enough to serve | 0:10:30 | 0:10:33 | |
in the First World War and one of them has been difficult | 0:10:33 | 0:10:37 | |
to find information about, which is why Gareth is turning to the military records. | 0:10:37 | 0:10:42 | |
I was just looking for a little bit more information on Frank Danks, because | 0:10:42 | 0:10:47 | |
there's his stamp, and I've found his discharge records, discharged from the First World War. | 0:10:47 | 0:10:54 | |
Unfortunately, it's not telling me a huge amount of information. | 0:10:54 | 0:10:58 | |
Although the military records don't say why | 0:10:58 | 0:11:00 | |
Irene's uncle Frank was discharged, the fact that he was allowed | 0:11:00 | 0:11:04 | |
to leave the Army during wartime indicates that he was probably in bad mental or physical health. | 0:11:04 | 0:11:10 | |
Although this may not be obvious from the records, medicine on | 0:11:10 | 0:11:13 | |
the front line had its own set of rules, | 0:11:13 | 0:11:16 | |
as historian Nick Hewitt explains. | 0:11:16 | 0:11:18 | |
Military medicine, first and foremost, if possible, is about | 0:11:18 | 0:11:23 | |
turning these guys round and turning them back into soldiers and getting them back into the front line. | 0:11:23 | 0:11:27 | |
Now, if you've got traumatic limb removal, he's not going to go back into the front line, so the military | 0:11:27 | 0:11:33 | |
tend to treat first as a priority the guy who can be treated and got back into the front line. | 0:11:33 | 0:11:39 | |
At the other end of the scale is the guy who's not going to survive, | 0:11:39 | 0:11:42 | |
and that's pretty much the way that triage works today, and then it's the chap in the middle who kind of | 0:11:42 | 0:11:48 | |
suffers worse under military medicine because the chap in the middle is the guy who, with a lot of intense help | 0:11:48 | 0:11:54 | |
can be repaired, but will not make a fighting soldier again and he's not the priority for the military. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:59 | |
The way in which these casualties are incurred vary. | 0:12:01 | 0:12:04 | |
We know about them going over the top when the whistle sounds and being machine gunned, but there's a lot of | 0:12:04 | 0:12:09 | |
regular low-level activity on the Western front in particular. | 0:12:09 | 0:12:12 | |
You've got trench raiding, you've got shell fire, | 0:12:12 | 0:12:16 | |
and also the simple act of day-to-day living in this deeply unpleasant, | 0:12:16 | 0:12:21 | |
unhealthy environment also brings in... | 0:12:21 | 0:12:24 | |
has a lot of medical consequences for people. | 0:12:24 | 0:12:27 | |
There were 2.5 million casualties admitted to hospital during the war, and even those that were | 0:12:27 | 0:12:34 | |
lucky enough to survive may have spent the rest of their lives as the walking wounded. | 0:12:34 | 0:12:39 | |
One in 22 of the males in Britain at this period of time have got a conspicuous war-related injury. | 0:12:39 | 0:12:44 | |
That's really obvious. | 0:12:44 | 0:12:46 | |
If you imagine a busy high street, there's going to be an awful lot of people walking along that high street | 0:12:46 | 0:12:51 | |
who have something clearly related to war damage that's physically very obvious about them. | 0:12:51 | 0:12:57 | |
In the Army records, there are no details about the exact part Irene's | 0:12:57 | 0:13:01 | |
uncle Frank played in the war beyond the fact that he was discharged from the Army. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:05 | |
It may have had his details of his next of kin, his wife or a child, | 0:13:06 | 0:13:10 | |
or even sometimes they have the name of the children, how old they are. | 0:13:10 | 0:13:14 | |
It does vary, but this is just quite a basic discharge record. | 0:13:14 | 0:13:18 | |
It's not quite what I was hoping for. | 0:13:18 | 0:13:21 | |
At least the records indicate that Irene's uncle Frank survived the war | 0:13:21 | 0:13:25 | |
which means he could have had children. | 0:13:25 | 0:13:28 | |
But Gareth will have to dig around some more to know for sure. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:31 | |
It's a minor setback for the team but little do they know there are worse ones to come. | 0:13:37 | 0:13:42 | |
Everything we have done so far this morning on the mother's side, | 0:13:44 | 0:13:46 | |
and that's the best part of all five hours' research. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:49 | |
It's all rubbish. It's back to square one, really. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:53 | |
Heir hunters tend to prioritise looking at | 0:13:59 | 0:14:02 | |
the cases where the person who died left a property. | 0:14:02 | 0:14:04 | |
This way, they ensure that their commission will at least cover their costs. | 0:14:06 | 0:14:10 | |
So, the case of Johnny Hubbard, who was homeless, was an unusual one for the heir hunters to take on. | 0:14:10 | 0:14:16 | |
Johnny Hubbard died in 2006 aged 74. | 0:14:16 | 0:14:21 | |
He spent most of his adult life on the streets of London, and the last few years in and out of hostels. | 0:14:22 | 0:14:29 | |
Like many people sleeping rough, Johnny suffered from mental health problems. | 0:14:29 | 0:14:34 | |
But despite his apparent poverty and difficulties, he died leaving an estate of £35,000. | 0:14:34 | 0:14:40 | |
Mike Tringham took on Johnny's case. | 0:14:46 | 0:14:48 | |
He is chairman at Hooper's, one of the oldest heir hunting firms in the country. | 0:14:48 | 0:14:53 | |
The company rarely investigate homeless people, because they don't | 0:14:53 | 0:14:56 | |
often have an estate to pass on, so Johnny's case stood out. | 0:14:56 | 0:15:00 | |
When we got an idea of his background, his profile, | 0:15:03 | 0:15:06 | |
it seemed quite odd to us that someone in his circumstances | 0:15:06 | 0:15:11 | |
should leave quite a substantial amount of money, | 0:15:11 | 0:15:15 | |
and it's quite likely that he was left some money | 0:15:15 | 0:15:20 | |
by a relative some years ago. | 0:15:20 | 0:15:23 | |
If the money had come to Johnny while he was homeless, | 0:15:23 | 0:15:26 | |
he may never have known about it | 0:15:26 | 0:15:28 | |
and it would have continued to earn interest. | 0:15:28 | 0:15:30 | |
Whatever had happened, it would be a sizeable windfall for his heirs - | 0:15:30 | 0:15:34 | |
if they could be found. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:36 | |
We know his name is John Walter Hubbard. | 0:15:36 | 0:15:39 | |
He dies in Hackney. | 0:15:39 | 0:15:41 | |
We don't know much about him. | 0:15:41 | 0:15:42 | |
Born in London, we think. | 0:15:42 | 0:15:45 | |
-Maybe if we look up his birth, shall we? -Yes, we'll do that. | 0:15:45 | 0:15:48 | |
The name Hubbard, it's quite a good name. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:56 | |
It's not too common, so there shouldn't be too many of them. | 0:15:56 | 0:16:01 | |
-There he is. -There we go. Yes. | 0:16:01 | 0:16:04 | |
Seems to be born in London. | 0:16:04 | 0:16:06 | |
-Finsbury, which is.... -Not far from us. | 0:16:06 | 0:16:09 | |
Once we had identified the birth record of the deceased, | 0:16:11 | 0:16:16 | |
which gave us the details of his parents, | 0:16:16 | 0:16:19 | |
we were then able to piece together other areas of the family | 0:16:19 | 0:16:24 | |
and identify birth records for his brothers and sisters, | 0:16:24 | 0:16:29 | |
and then really it was a question of tracking them down | 0:16:29 | 0:16:33 | |
for seeing whether they were sill living, | 0:16:33 | 0:16:36 | |
whether they married, | 0:16:36 | 0:16:37 | |
and we did manage to do that within 24 hours. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:40 | |
It was a fast turn-around. | 0:16:40 | 0:16:42 | |
The heir hunters discovered | 0:16:42 | 0:16:44 | |
that Johnny's parents were John and Winifred Hubbard, | 0:16:44 | 0:16:47 | |
and that he was the third eldest of nine brothers and sisters. | 0:16:47 | 0:16:51 | |
Four of them were still alive - | 0:16:51 | 0:16:53 | |
Peter, Elizabeth, William and Winifred. | 0:16:53 | 0:16:56 | |
Because Johnny had never married or had children, | 0:16:56 | 0:16:59 | |
they were his nearest kin, | 0:16:59 | 0:17:01 | |
and were each eligible to inherit an equal share of his £35,000 estate. | 0:17:01 | 0:17:06 | |
Bill Hubbard was Johnny's youngest brother. | 0:17:10 | 0:17:13 | |
Despite being born into the same working class household, | 0:17:13 | 0:17:16 | |
their lives couldn't have turned out more differently. | 0:17:16 | 0:17:19 | |
Bill runs an established furniture business in Central London, | 0:17:19 | 0:17:23 | |
but a turbulent childhood | 0:17:23 | 0:17:24 | |
meant that things might not have turned out that way. | 0:17:24 | 0:17:28 | |
I could easily have turned into a gangster or a robber, | 0:17:28 | 0:17:33 | |
or something like that. | 0:17:33 | 0:17:35 | |
I was very lucky to find a vocation which I enjoy. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:40 | |
Bill, Johnny and their siblings grew up in Islington in London | 0:17:40 | 0:17:44 | |
under difficult circumstances. | 0:17:44 | 0:17:47 | |
Dad was a pretty violent person. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:49 | |
If I wanted dinner money, so, to go to school... | 0:17:49 | 0:17:52 | |
If you asked for it, you got a clump and if you stole it, you got a clump. | 0:17:53 | 0:17:57 | |
So you were sort of twixt and between what you done. | 0:17:57 | 0:18:03 | |
And because he was drunk, you know, always drunk, | 0:18:03 | 0:18:06 | |
I think what he used to work on the stall in Chapel Market, | 0:18:06 | 0:18:09 | |
he used to have a fishmonger's, | 0:18:09 | 0:18:11 | |
and basically there was a pub immediately behind the stall | 0:18:11 | 0:18:16 | |
and I think he used to think drinking brandy would keep him warm. | 0:18:16 | 0:18:21 | |
Bill's business is only a mile away from where he and Johnny grew up. | 0:18:23 | 0:18:28 | |
The inheritance has prompted him to revisit his childhood haunts. | 0:18:28 | 0:18:32 | |
This is where my dad's stall was - Jack Hubbard. | 0:18:36 | 0:18:41 | |
Right outside this pub. | 0:18:41 | 0:18:43 | |
I used to work on the stall sometimes | 0:18:43 | 0:18:45 | |
and my hands used to get freezing cold, | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
and he used to send you - | 0:18:48 | 0:18:49 | |
you used to get a hot peppermint drink, | 0:18:49 | 0:18:53 | |
you know, to warm your hands up, | 0:18:53 | 0:18:55 | |
and sometimes your hands would be throbbing with the cold. | 0:18:55 | 0:18:58 | |
Literally throbbing, you know? | 0:18:58 | 0:19:00 | |
The pain - you'd never felt anything like it. | 0:19:00 | 0:19:03 | |
Bill's family home was just around the corner from the stall. | 0:19:04 | 0:19:08 | |
So this is Grant Street. | 0:19:08 | 0:19:12 | |
And Grant Street used to go round to the right here, | 0:19:12 | 0:19:15 | |
and my house, approximately, looking at this... | 0:19:15 | 0:19:20 | |
This was Sermon Lane where the stables were. | 0:19:22 | 0:19:25 | |
My house was approximately | 0:19:25 | 0:19:28 | |
where the police station is there, | 0:19:28 | 0:19:30 | |
which is Tolpuddle Street Police Station. | 0:19:30 | 0:19:34 | |
I must say, when I left it, | 0:19:34 | 0:19:35 | |
it was a pretty dismal and horrible place, | 0:19:35 | 0:19:37 | |
so I'm quite pleased that we, you know, we survived it, really. | 0:19:37 | 0:19:42 | |
There you are. | 0:19:42 | 0:19:44 | |
Sometimes I do wander down the market now and again | 0:19:44 | 0:19:47 | |
just to have a little look round to see what's going on | 0:19:47 | 0:19:49 | |
and see if there's still stallholders who I know. | 0:19:49 | 0:19:52 | |
There is still a few here, | 0:19:52 | 0:19:54 | |
but it's changed dramatically. | 0:19:54 | 0:19:57 | |
And I don't miss it at all, to be honest with you. | 0:19:57 | 0:19:59 | |
It's a hard life for anyone, a very hard life. | 0:19:59 | 0:20:03 | |
The Hubbard children escaped this tough life as soon as they could. | 0:20:03 | 0:20:08 | |
Me earliest memories were me and Peter moving out. | 0:20:08 | 0:20:13 | |
I'm not sure the exact age we was, but I was quite young, | 0:20:13 | 0:20:17 | |
and we moved to a lodging room in Highbury New Park. | 0:20:17 | 0:20:24 | |
And that was the start of me being self-sufficient, really. | 0:20:24 | 0:20:29 | |
But for Johnny, Islington remained his home. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:32 | |
When I left home, he was still there. | 0:20:32 | 0:20:36 | |
The house was in complete disarray - | 0:20:36 | 0:20:39 | |
lots of windows missing and things like that. | 0:20:39 | 0:20:42 | |
Bill and his brother started to lose touch with one another, | 0:20:42 | 0:20:45 | |
even though Johnny was working less than three miles away | 0:20:45 | 0:20:48 | |
in Smithfield's Meat Market. | 0:20:48 | 0:20:50 | |
I have heard other people telling me that he worked in Smithfield, | 0:20:50 | 0:20:55 | |
and I think before he went into the army, | 0:20:55 | 0:20:57 | |
he was a pretty tough character. | 0:20:57 | 0:21:00 | |
And boxing would have been a natural progression | 0:21:00 | 0:21:04 | |
if you had come from where we come from. | 0:21:04 | 0:21:06 | |
Johnny had taken up a sport | 0:21:07 | 0:21:09 | |
heavily connected to Smithfield's Meat Market, | 0:21:09 | 0:21:11 | |
which was a training ground | 0:21:11 | 0:21:13 | |
for many professional and amateur boxers. | 0:21:13 | 0:21:15 | |
Dixie Dean and George Hollister were both boxers, | 0:21:21 | 0:21:25 | |
and together with Alfie Hills, | 0:21:25 | 0:21:27 | |
they worked in Smithfield Market and knew Johnny. | 0:21:27 | 0:21:30 | |
He was a pitcher, right? | 0:21:30 | 0:21:33 | |
On Bothwicks. | 0:21:33 | 0:21:34 | |
I know that for a fact. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:35 | |
Pitcher is one that carries the meat into the market during the night. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:40 | |
Myself and Alfie, we used to hand the meat down to him, | 0:21:40 | 0:21:44 | |
lift it off the hooks and hand it down to them like that | 0:21:44 | 0:21:48 | |
on to their shoulders and they used to run it in. | 0:21:48 | 0:21:50 | |
I even done that myself. | 0:21:50 | 0:21:52 | |
When it goes in the market, they hung it up in the shop, | 0:21:52 | 0:21:55 | |
and then the porters started about... | 0:21:55 | 0:21:57 | |
Or the shopping started about four or five o'clock in the morning, | 0:21:57 | 0:22:01 | |
cutting it up, and the porters started, | 0:22:01 | 0:22:03 | |
and then they take it out to the butchers. | 0:22:03 | 0:22:05 | |
That's what Johnny Hubbard done. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:07 | |
-Pitching. -Pitching, yes. | 0:22:07 | 0:22:09 | |
The heavy manual labour kept the young men who worked here in fighting shape | 0:22:12 | 0:22:16 | |
and in turn, boxing provided an outlet for them to let off steam. | 0:22:16 | 0:22:21 | |
A couple of times, I was working on the market | 0:22:21 | 0:22:23 | |
and they used to give you what they called a run. | 0:22:23 | 0:22:25 | |
I used to come back and I had a friend of mine, he was a checker - | 0:22:25 | 0:22:28 | |
what they call a checker, on the box, | 0:22:28 | 0:22:30 | |
he said, "I just took a message for you, George. | 0:22:30 | 0:22:33 | |
"Boxing tonight at the Majestic." | 0:22:33 | 0:22:35 | |
I used to finish work and box on the same night. | 0:22:35 | 0:22:37 | |
We didn't know anything better, did we? It's like the training. | 0:22:37 | 0:22:40 | |
The training is all changed now. | 0:22:40 | 0:22:43 | |
We thought lifting up meat made us strong. | 0:22:43 | 0:22:46 | |
If you did it today, they'd go, "No, you've gotta turn that in, mustn't do that." | 0:22:46 | 0:22:50 | |
It's all different. It's a different era now, isn't it? Different ways. | 0:22:50 | 0:22:54 | |
But it was a confrontation outside the ring in the meat market | 0:22:54 | 0:22:59 | |
that would change Johnny's life for ever. | 0:22:59 | 0:23:01 | |
He got into a fight and was struck over the head | 0:23:01 | 0:23:04 | |
with disastrous consequences. | 0:23:04 | 0:23:07 | |
Apparently, he was having a fight with some of the other porters or whatever it is, | 0:23:07 | 0:23:11 | |
and the only way they stopped him was bashing him over the head. | 0:23:11 | 0:23:15 | |
After that, he's had all his problems. | 0:23:16 | 0:23:19 | |
That was it, really. | 0:23:19 | 0:23:21 | |
I wouldn't have thought my dad would have been any help to him, | 0:23:21 | 0:23:24 | |
because, you know, my dad was always drunk. | 0:23:24 | 0:23:28 | |
And I don't think he was very sympathetic to his illness, shall we say. | 0:23:28 | 0:23:34 | |
After the knock to his head, Johnny became more unstable | 0:23:35 | 0:23:40 | |
and he was still only in his mid-20s | 0:23:40 | 0:23:42 | |
when he was admitted to a psychiatric hospital for brain surgery. | 0:23:42 | 0:23:45 | |
He never fully recovered. | 0:23:45 | 0:23:48 | |
He was pretty violent. | 0:23:49 | 0:23:51 | |
And... | 0:23:51 | 0:23:53 | |
all of us were scared of him. | 0:23:53 | 0:23:56 | |
I don't think he was - I think it was obviously mental problems, you know. | 0:23:56 | 0:24:02 | |
You didn't get hit if you didn't let him catch you! | 0:24:02 | 0:24:05 | |
Volatile and violent, Johnny alienated people around him. | 0:24:08 | 0:24:13 | |
No-one knows quite when he started sleeping rough, | 0:24:13 | 0:24:15 | |
but it's thought that he spent over 40 years of his life | 0:24:15 | 0:24:18 | |
homeless around the Square Mile in East London. | 0:24:18 | 0:24:21 | |
He even became known to the police as Tramp Hubbard. | 0:24:21 | 0:24:24 | |
I had heard, obviously, that he lived on the streets. | 0:24:25 | 0:24:29 | |
And it's unusual that I never come in contact with him, | 0:24:30 | 0:24:33 | |
because I'm always down the City of London and round that area. | 0:24:33 | 0:24:38 | |
The only time I did come in contact with him | 0:24:38 | 0:24:40 | |
was as I driving around Old Street roundabout with my daughter, | 0:24:40 | 0:24:45 | |
and I stopped, | 0:24:45 | 0:24:47 | |
got out and spoke to him. | 0:24:47 | 0:24:49 | |
I don't even know whether he recognised me or not, | 0:24:50 | 0:24:53 | |
but I knew it was him, | 0:24:53 | 0:24:55 | |
and I'm not sure whether he did recognise me or not. | 0:24:55 | 0:24:58 | |
I give him a business card | 0:24:58 | 0:25:00 | |
and maybe I give him some money - I think I did - | 0:25:00 | 0:25:04 | |
but I don't even know whether he was aware what I was doing, really. | 0:25:04 | 0:25:07 | |
I don't think he wanted any assistance, to be honest. | 0:25:07 | 0:25:11 | |
He was content in what he was doing. | 0:25:11 | 0:25:13 | |
Bill wouldn't see his brother again, | 0:25:15 | 0:25:17 | |
although he was in a hostel not far away. | 0:25:17 | 0:25:19 | |
The next news he had of Johnny was from the heir hunters. | 0:25:19 | 0:25:23 | |
They brought Johnny's £35,000 back into the family he had been estranged from for many years. | 0:25:23 | 0:25:28 | |
And also gave Bill the opportunity to say goodbye to his brother. | 0:25:28 | 0:25:34 | |
After his death, me and Betty went down to the home where he had been. | 0:25:34 | 0:25:40 | |
They have got a memorial garden for him, which I find quite... | 0:25:40 | 0:25:46 | |
touching. | 0:25:46 | 0:25:47 | |
It makes me wish I'd have known him. | 0:25:47 | 0:25:49 | |
For every case that is solved, | 0:25:58 | 0:26:01 | |
there are still thousands that stubbornly remain a mystery. | 0:26:01 | 0:26:04 | |
Currently, over 3,000 names, drawn from across the country, | 0:26:04 | 0:26:08 | |
are on the Treasury's unsolved case list. | 0:26:08 | 0:26:11 | |
Their assets will be kept for up to 30 years | 0:26:14 | 0:26:17 | |
in the hope that eventually someone will remember | 0:26:17 | 0:26:19 | |
and come forward to claim their inheritance. | 0:26:19 | 0:26:22 | |
With estates valued at anything from £5,000 to millions of pounds, | 0:26:26 | 0:26:30 | |
the rightful heirs are out there somewhere. | 0:26:30 | 0:26:32 | |
Lilian Collins of Dartford, Kent, died in 2003. | 0:26:36 | 0:26:40 | |
Does her name ring any bells? | 0:26:40 | 0:26:43 | |
Could you be the one person entitled to her estate? | 0:26:43 | 0:26:47 | |
Herbert Cecil Godfrey died in Combe Down in Bath in 1995. | 0:26:49 | 0:26:54 | |
The heir hunters have run out of leads. | 0:26:54 | 0:26:57 | |
Do you know anything about him? | 0:26:57 | 0:26:58 | |
Maybe he's your long-lost uncle or cousin. | 0:26:58 | 0:27:01 | |
Could your help get to the heirs of Lilian Collins and Herbert Godfrey | 0:27:03 | 0:27:07 | |
and thousands of cases just like these? | 0:27:07 | 0:27:10 | |
Is there a fortune out there waiting for you? | 0:27:10 | 0:27:12 | |
One of the names advertised | 0:27:20 | 0:27:21 | |
on the government list of people who have died without a will | 0:27:21 | 0:27:25 | |
was Irene Shepherd who left an estimated £200,000. | 0:27:25 | 0:27:29 | |
The entire office at Frazer and Frazer is working on her case, | 0:27:31 | 0:27:34 | |
and with the help of the Census, | 0:27:34 | 0:27:36 | |
they've already managed to find all her aunts and uncles | 0:27:36 | 0:27:39 | |
on her father's side, the Danks. | 0:27:39 | 0:27:42 | |
There's only little bits to do on two of the stems, | 0:27:44 | 0:27:48 | |
otherwise we may have most, if not all the addresses, which is good. | 0:27:48 | 0:27:52 | |
A question of contacting them all | 0:27:52 | 0:27:54 | |
and some people are either ex-directory or not answering, | 0:27:54 | 0:27:57 | |
so it's come on very well in the time we've had. | 0:27:57 | 0:28:01 | |
However, the researchers have to make sure they find all the heirs | 0:28:03 | 0:28:07 | |
before they can submit a claim to the Treasury, | 0:28:07 | 0:28:09 | |
and this means researching uncles and aunts on the mother's side too. | 0:28:09 | 0:28:13 | |
The mother's side is Williams. That's a wholly different story. | 0:28:13 | 0:28:16 | |
The surname is incredibly bad to research. | 0:28:16 | 0:28:19 | |
It looks like at the moment we've got two separate families | 0:28:19 | 0:28:22 | |
with a Lily Williams, born in 1899 or thereabouts from the right area. | 0:28:22 | 0:28:29 | |
One of them's going to be totally wrong, | 0:28:29 | 0:28:31 | |
one of them's going to be right. | 0:28:31 | 0:28:33 | |
And we won't know probably until much later, maybe not even today, | 0:28:33 | 0:28:37 | |
so instead of working two families as we normally would do on cousins, | 0:28:37 | 0:28:40 | |
we're actually working three, | 0:28:40 | 0:28:41 | |
one of them we're going to throw away at a later date, | 0:28:41 | 0:28:43 | |
so it's a bit more work for us, | 0:28:43 | 0:28:45 | |
but hopefully we get the right family first. | 0:28:45 | 0:28:47 | |
In order to crack this valuable case before the competition, | 0:28:48 | 0:28:51 | |
the entire office are being split into two teams. | 0:28:51 | 0:28:54 | |
The Danks researchers led by David and Gareth | 0:28:54 | 0:28:57 | |
are finishing off Irene's father's family. | 0:28:57 | 0:29:00 | |
The Williams team tracing the maternal side | 0:29:01 | 0:29:04 | |
includes Fran, David and Simon. | 0:29:04 | 0:29:07 | |
Fran is currently following up | 0:29:07 | 0:29:09 | |
one of two potential records for Irene's mother, | 0:29:09 | 0:29:12 | |
one in Evesham, one in Worcester. | 0:29:12 | 0:29:15 | |
Now, either of those two could be correct, | 0:29:16 | 0:29:19 | |
or she was born in a completely different county, | 0:29:19 | 0:29:24 | |
in which case we haven't yet identified a birth record for her. | 0:29:24 | 0:29:28 | |
So we're really working on a hunch at the moment and hope it will pay off. | 0:29:28 | 0:29:33 | |
Birth, death and marriage certificates are vital for heir hunters. | 0:29:34 | 0:29:38 | |
They contain all the proof needed to verify the family trees that are drawn up in the office. | 0:29:38 | 0:29:43 | |
Unfortunately for the team researching Irene's mother, | 0:29:45 | 0:29:47 | |
the certificates they need are in Ledbury Register Office | 0:29:47 | 0:29:50 | |
which is shut, so all their work on the Williams side is speculative. | 0:29:50 | 0:29:54 | |
We've got the nightmare side of the case. | 0:29:57 | 0:29:59 | |
We're working Williams and everyone else seems to be working Danks, | 0:29:59 | 0:30:03 | |
and there's quite a big difference in the two names, to be honest. A bit unfair, maybe! | 0:30:03 | 0:30:07 | |
While team Williams grumble about their lot, team Danks are tying up | 0:30:09 | 0:30:13 | |
one of the outstanding stems of their family tree. | 0:30:13 | 0:30:16 | |
We've got a possibility of another cousin on another branch. | 0:30:18 | 0:30:21 | |
There's a possibility, but it needs a phone call, and I'm going to do that now. | 0:30:21 | 0:30:25 | |
David has discovered that Irene's aunt Phyllis had two daughters - Judith and Victoria. | 0:30:29 | 0:30:34 | |
Another two potential heirs and cousins to Irene. | 0:30:34 | 0:30:38 | |
David is speaking to Victoria now. | 0:30:38 | 0:30:41 | |
At this junction, we don't know what the value of the estate is, but we believe there is a good | 0:30:41 | 0:30:46 | |
value to which we we believe that you're part of that family, you see? | 0:30:46 | 0:30:49 | |
Irene may well have known all her cousins as a child, but as her name was on the unclaimed estates list, | 0:30:51 | 0:30:56 | |
the sad probability is that none of them even knew of her death. | 0:30:56 | 0:30:59 | |
We'd like to discuss this matter in more detail, and I was wondering if | 0:30:59 | 0:31:03 | |
it's possible one of my colleagues to call and see you. Is that possible? | 0:31:03 | 0:31:08 | |
Travelling heir hunter Paul is nearest to Victoria to go and see her. | 0:31:10 | 0:31:15 | |
It turns out that there is certainly going to be a lot of cousins out there. | 0:31:15 | 0:31:19 | |
The deceased on her father's side looking at one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. | 0:31:19 | 0:31:26 | |
So she had nine uncles and aunts. | 0:31:26 | 0:31:28 | |
We've got an appointment in half an hour, so we had better get our skates | 0:31:28 | 0:31:32 | |
on before one of our competitors comes knocking on the same doors. | 0:31:32 | 0:31:37 | |
It's only 11.00am and the Danks team | 0:31:42 | 0:31:45 | |
have already completed Irene's family tree on her father's side. | 0:31:45 | 0:31:49 | |
Charles Danks had seven adult brothers and sisters who all had children - Irene's cousins. | 0:31:49 | 0:31:55 | |
They and their children are eligible to inherit, making 17 heirs on this side of the family. | 0:31:55 | 0:32:01 | |
But team Williams, who are researching Irene's mother's family, are having a much tougher time | 0:32:06 | 0:32:12 | |
because they're working speculatively. | 0:32:12 | 0:32:15 | |
The register office in Ledbury which holds the certificates they need to crack the case is shut. | 0:32:15 | 0:32:20 | |
We tried different lines, and we don't know which one's correct yet. | 0:32:22 | 0:32:25 | |
That's why we desperately need to get some certificates to prove | 0:32:25 | 0:32:29 | |
which way we're going. | 0:32:29 | 0:32:31 | |
The Williams team have found several instances of a woman with the same | 0:32:31 | 0:32:35 | |
name as Irene's mother - Lily Williams. | 0:32:35 | 0:32:38 | |
They're trying to whittle them down by a process of elimination. | 0:32:38 | 0:32:43 | |
It looks, in theory, like this is wrong. | 0:32:43 | 0:32:46 | |
-Well, keep rolling anyway, I think, but less important on her. -OK. | 0:32:46 | 0:32:50 | |
Fran has just discounted one Lily Williams based in Evesham, | 0:32:52 | 0:32:56 | |
so Neil is pinning his hopes on a Lily Williams that Simon is working on. | 0:32:56 | 0:33:01 | |
So we reckon it's this one now, then? | 0:33:01 | 0:33:03 | |
This is the better option than the Evesham one. | 0:33:03 | 0:33:05 | |
Simon was trying to get out of working this family because he doesn't like it, and it's | 0:33:05 | 0:33:10 | |
got a horrible name, and the marriages he's got are horrible. | 0:33:10 | 0:33:14 | |
Everything's horrible. Trying to persuade me that the other one | 0:33:14 | 0:33:17 | |
is more likely and I've just told him that the other one is wrong. | 0:33:17 | 0:33:21 | |
Simon and the team know that Williams is the third most common name in the country | 0:33:24 | 0:33:28 | |
which is why it's difficult to research. | 0:33:28 | 0:33:31 | |
The easy solution would be to wait for the register office to open, | 0:33:31 | 0:33:34 | |
but the team want to solve the case before other heir hunting companies, so they're cracking on. | 0:33:34 | 0:33:39 | |
As well as Irene's mother, they're also looking for other Williams' that could be part of her family. | 0:33:39 | 0:33:45 | |
If they can find and phone a relative, however distant, | 0:33:45 | 0:33:48 | |
they may be able to confirm they're researching the right family. | 0:33:48 | 0:33:52 | |
Simon thinks he may be on to a winner, because he's found | 0:33:53 | 0:33:56 | |
a potential aunt - Edith Williams - who could have been Lily's sister. | 0:33:56 | 0:34:00 | |
Edith Williams marrying Ernest Smith in 1917. | 0:34:03 | 0:34:07 | |
We did a birth search of Smith to Williams sticking to the Worcester area. | 0:34:07 | 0:34:12 | |
It looks like there's two families having children, at the same time. | 0:34:12 | 0:34:16 | |
I've picked one, pretty much at random. | 0:34:16 | 0:34:19 | |
With any luck, this will be right, but if not, at least it's | 0:34:19 | 0:34:22 | |
crossed one off my massive list that I've got at the moment. | 0:34:22 | 0:34:25 | |
So I'll just take it up to Grimble and he can ring, hopefully. | 0:34:25 | 0:34:30 | |
Sometimes, heir hunting involves guesswork. | 0:34:30 | 0:34:34 | |
As there are two possible marriages for Edith Williams, | 0:34:34 | 0:34:37 | |
the fastest way of ruling one out to is to make a pot-luck phone call. | 0:34:37 | 0:34:41 | |
David is calling the number Simon's found for one of the families. | 0:34:41 | 0:34:45 | |
Hello, is that Mrs Smith? | 0:34:46 | 0:34:48 | |
I'm trying to trace a family in connection with an estate I'm dealing with, but unfortunately | 0:34:48 | 0:34:54 | |
the family names I'm dealing with are Smith and Williams. | 0:34:54 | 0:34:59 | |
The phone call is a long shot. Is this finally the Williams connection they've all been looking for? | 0:34:59 | 0:35:05 | |
What if I said the name Danks, would that ring a bell? | 0:35:05 | 0:35:09 | |
That doesn't ring a bell. | 0:35:09 | 0:35:11 | |
OK, bye-bye. | 0:35:11 | 0:35:13 | |
It's another false trail in the hunt for Irene's mother. | 0:35:13 | 0:35:17 | |
I didn't really expect it, to be honest, | 0:35:20 | 0:35:23 | |
but it's crossed one off my list. | 0:35:23 | 0:35:25 | |
It's not just the office who are resorting to long shots. | 0:35:27 | 0:35:31 | |
Bob Barrett has arrived at Worcester register office. | 0:35:31 | 0:35:35 | |
Even though the certificates they know they need are at nearby Ledbury which is shut, | 0:35:35 | 0:35:39 | |
they're now getting hold of any other potential Williams certificates in the same area. | 0:35:39 | 0:35:44 | |
It's not the most economical way to work, but they're hoping to get lucky. | 0:35:44 | 0:35:48 | |
Can I ask you about the chances of getting several certificates? | 0:35:50 | 0:35:56 | |
How many do you require? | 0:35:56 | 0:35:57 | |
Three deaths and two births. | 0:35:57 | 0:36:01 | |
With every lead drawing a blank, the search seems to be getting wider and wider. | 0:36:02 | 0:36:08 | |
We are still trying to locate the birth of the mother of the deceased. | 0:36:08 | 0:36:13 | |
We know now that she's called Lilian Elizabeth, so we've gone through the Lily Elizabeth births | 0:36:13 | 0:36:19 | |
and we're trying to match up Census from 1901 | 0:36:19 | 0:36:22 | |
to give us an idea of family, and there's 138. | 0:36:22 | 0:36:27 | |
I'm not really having much luck at the moment. | 0:36:27 | 0:36:30 | |
Everything I touch seems to go wrong today. | 0:36:30 | 0:36:34 | |
With 138 Lily Elizabeth Williams to get through, | 0:36:34 | 0:36:39 | |
it looks like this day is never going to end for team Williams. | 0:36:39 | 0:36:43 | |
Everything so far has gone wrong, and I think some of the | 0:36:43 | 0:36:48 | |
dejected faces around here and the glum looks are because | 0:36:48 | 0:36:52 | |
everything we have done so far this morning on the mother's side, | 0:36:52 | 0:36:56 | |
and that's the best part of four or five hours of research, is all rubbish. | 0:36:56 | 0:37:00 | |
It's back to square one, really. | 0:37:00 | 0:37:03 | |
While the office pack up in the hope of a better day tomorrow, | 0:37:05 | 0:37:08 | |
at least their work on the Danks side is coming to fruition. | 0:37:08 | 0:37:11 | |
Paul Matthews is calling on an heir on the paternal side - Irene's aunt Phyllis. | 0:37:11 | 0:37:18 | |
Irene's aunt Phyllis had two daughters. | 0:37:18 | 0:37:20 | |
Victoria is one of them, and is a cousin to Irene. | 0:37:20 | 0:37:23 | |
Your mum was Phyllis May Danks? | 0:37:31 | 0:37:34 | |
-Yes. -Married Horace Butt. | 0:37:34 | 0:37:36 | |
-Yes. -Your mum had a lot of brothers and sisters? | 0:37:36 | 0:37:40 | |
Victoria is the youngest of Irene's cousins. | 0:37:41 | 0:37:44 | |
Learning of her share in Irene's £200,000 inheritance | 0:37:44 | 0:37:48 | |
was the first news she had heard of cousin in years. | 0:37:48 | 0:37:52 | |
I didn't really know what to think, to be honest. | 0:37:52 | 0:37:55 | |
It was out of the blue, you know? | 0:37:55 | 0:37:58 | |
I didn't realise I had got any relations that had got any money, | 0:37:58 | 0:38:04 | |
you know, to leave, or any property, or anything. | 0:38:04 | 0:38:06 | |
My mother was one of eight, | 0:38:06 | 0:38:10 | |
so it goes right back, and you just lose track, because I'm one of the | 0:38:10 | 0:38:15 | |
youngest ones, so it's nice to know that there are still people there. | 0:38:15 | 0:38:21 | |
Paul has left the paperwork in the hope that she will agree to | 0:38:21 | 0:38:24 | |
let the company help present her case to the Treasury | 0:38:24 | 0:38:27 | |
and that they'll end up earning their commission. | 0:38:27 | 0:38:30 | |
It's a new day at the office, and the Williams team are waiting for that vital clue | 0:38:38 | 0:38:42 | |
which will help them build Irene's mother's side of the family tree. | 0:38:42 | 0:38:46 | |
Bob Barrett is at the Ledbury register office which is now open, | 0:38:49 | 0:38:52 | |
to get hold of Irene's parents' marriage certificate. | 0:38:52 | 0:38:55 | |
The whole case hinges on what Bob will find. | 0:38:56 | 0:39:00 | |
Right, well, I got the marriage certificate that I was after. | 0:39:05 | 0:39:08 | |
As a bonus I also got a birth certificate of our deceased's mother. | 0:39:08 | 0:39:14 | |
And in fact, she was illegitimate, so I've got a birth of a Lily Fletcher. | 0:39:14 | 0:39:21 | |
Somewhere along the way, | 0:39:21 | 0:39:24 | |
Lily Fletcher became Lily Williams because Joseph Williams is shown | 0:39:24 | 0:39:29 | |
as her father on the marriage certificate. | 0:39:29 | 0:39:32 | |
So I'll ring these through to the office now... | 0:39:32 | 0:39:35 | |
..which I'm sure they are eagerly awaiting. | 0:39:37 | 0:39:39 | |
Without a father on Irene's mother's birth certificate, | 0:39:42 | 0:39:46 | |
the heir hunters can only prove a half-blood relationship with any | 0:39:46 | 0:39:49 | |
of Lily's brothers and sisters, | 0:39:49 | 0:39:51 | |
because they only know for sure who her mother is. | 0:39:51 | 0:39:55 | |
That means that Irene's aunts and uncles on her mother's side | 0:39:55 | 0:39:58 | |
would not be in line to inherit | 0:39:58 | 0:40:00 | |
because they're legally half brothers and sisters to her mother rather than full-blood relatives. | 0:40:00 | 0:40:05 | |
That's the mother's birth. No father shown. | 0:40:07 | 0:40:09 | |
As far as we can say, we can't prove full blood on the Williams side. | 0:40:09 | 0:40:16 | |
It all goes to the paternal side. | 0:40:16 | 0:40:19 | |
And we've got them all, so, that's that. | 0:40:19 | 0:40:23 | |
Although it's not the outcome they expected, | 0:40:23 | 0:40:26 | |
the team are pleased to have concluded the case. | 0:40:26 | 0:40:29 | |
They found all the heirs on Irene father's side. | 0:40:29 | 0:40:33 | |
Bryan Golby, Irene's cousin, | 0:40:33 | 0:40:35 | |
is the last to be contacted by travelling researcher Paul Matthews. | 0:40:35 | 0:40:40 | |
I was trying to think that | 0:40:42 | 0:40:44 | |
most of the children of my uncles and aunties, my cousins, | 0:40:44 | 0:40:48 | |
must be dead now, because I'm coming up 78, and they're older than me. | 0:40:48 | 0:40:55 | |
You know Frank? He had two children, Stan and Eileen, | 0:40:55 | 0:40:58 | |
they're both still alive. They're both in their eighties. | 0:40:58 | 0:41:02 | |
That's right, yes. Yeah, that's right, yeah. | 0:41:02 | 0:41:05 | |
All the very best. Nice to meet you. | 0:41:07 | 0:41:10 | |
-Take care of yourself. -Thank you very much. -Cheers. Bye. | 0:41:10 | 0:41:13 | |
Irene's death and Paul's subsequent visit | 0:41:17 | 0:41:20 | |
have left Bryan to reflect on a time when the family were much closer. | 0:41:20 | 0:41:26 | |
I'd forgotten all about them and it's brought back memories, as I say, | 0:41:26 | 0:41:30 | |
my brother and I were evacuated to Redditch during the war. | 0:41:30 | 0:41:34 | |
We stayed in my nan and grandad's house, | 0:41:34 | 0:41:37 | |
but they shared the house with Auntie Phyllis, | 0:41:37 | 0:41:42 | |
and she and her husband lived there | 0:41:42 | 0:41:45 | |
with their daughters Vicky and Judy | 0:41:45 | 0:41:48 | |
who I understand from Paul are still alive and still live in Redditch. | 0:41:48 | 0:41:53 | |
I'd be interested to speak to them again because it's a long, long time. | 0:41:53 | 0:41:57 | |
It must be 30 years since I've seen any of them, you know? | 0:41:57 | 0:42:00 | |
And it's a surprise when I realise it's that long ago | 0:42:00 | 0:42:05 | |
that I've seen them. | 0:42:05 | 0:42:07 | |
Irene has provided Bryan and the 16 other heirs on the paternal side | 0:42:09 | 0:42:13 | |
with an unexpected windfall from her £200,000 estate. | 0:42:13 | 0:42:17 | |
But for her neighbour, Jim Mills, | 0:42:17 | 0:42:20 | |
the real reward was simply knowing her. | 0:42:20 | 0:42:22 | |
Nine out of ten times you met her, she was laughing and joking. | 0:42:24 | 0:42:29 | |
She had always got a cheery word for you. | 0:42:29 | 0:42:32 | |
She was just a lovely person to know, | 0:42:32 | 0:42:35 | |
and I think the world was a better place because of her. | 0:42:35 | 0:42:41 | |
If you would like advice about building a family tree or making a will, go to: | 0:42:42 | 0:42:49 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:42:56 | 0:42:58 | |
E-mail [email protected] | 0:42:58 | 0:43:00 |