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Welcome to Heir Hunters. | 0:00:02 | 0:00:03 | |
We follow investigators searching for living family of people who've died without leaving a will. | 0:00:03 | 0:00:08 | |
Today, we search for heirs who could be in line for thousands of pounds. | 0:00:08 | 0:00:12 | |
Heir Hunters earn their money tracing relatives of people who've died without leaving a will. | 0:00:12 | 0:00:18 | |
They hand over thousands of pounds to family members who had no idea they would inherit. | 0:00:18 | 0:00:23 | |
Could they be knocking at your door? | 0:00:23 | 0:00:26 | |
Coming up on today's programme... | 0:00:42 | 0:00:44 | |
Is this all of them, yeah? | 0:00:44 | 0:00:46 | |
The heir hunters have a surprise in store for two long-lost nieces. | 0:00:46 | 0:00:51 | |
I was very shocked to find out that I was going to be a heir, | 0:00:51 | 0:00:55 | |
because things like that don't happen to people like us. | 0:00:55 | 0:00:57 | |
The team have potentially struck gold in the case of a family of Russian aristocrats. | 0:00:57 | 0:01:03 | |
We could be dealing with an estate worth tens of thousands of pounds, | 0:01:03 | 0:01:07 | |
possibly even millions of pounds. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:10 | |
And I'll be discovering more about Russia's turbulent past and about the family's rich history. | 0:01:10 | 0:01:16 | |
We found out they have connections to the gold-mining industry | 0:01:16 | 0:01:20 | |
in Eastern Siberia. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:22 | |
Plus how you could be entitled to unclaimed estates where beneficiaries need to be found. | 0:01:22 | 0:01:28 | |
Could you be in line for an unexpected windfall? | 0:01:28 | 0:01:32 | |
Every year in the UK, an estimated 300,000 people die without leaving a will. | 0:01:39 | 0:01:44 | |
If no relatives are found, | 0:01:44 | 0:01:46 | |
then any money that's left behind will go to the Government. | 0:01:46 | 0:01:50 | |
And last year they made over £14 million from unclaimed estates. | 0:01:50 | 0:01:55 | |
But there are over 30 specialist firms competing to stop this happening. | 0:01:57 | 0:02:02 | |
They're called heir hunters, and they make it their business | 0:02:02 | 0:02:05 | |
to track down missing relatives and help them claim their rightful inheritance. | 0:02:05 | 0:02:10 | |
That's what I enjoy most about this - | 0:02:10 | 0:02:12 | |
the personal satisfaction that I've cracked the case, | 0:02:12 | 0:02:16 | |
that's maybe been unsolved for 15 or 20 years. | 0:02:16 | 0:02:18 | |
Our first case today is a real puzzle for the heir hunters. | 0:02:27 | 0:02:30 | |
Will the team's research prove correct | 0:02:30 | 0:02:32 | |
and can they identify the right relatives? | 0:02:32 | 0:02:35 | |
It's 7am on a Thursday. | 0:02:40 | 0:02:42 | |
At midnight last night, | 0:02:46 | 0:02:48 | |
the Treasury released their weekly list of unclaimed estates. | 0:02:48 | 0:02:51 | |
And in central London, | 0:02:51 | 0:02:53 | |
the list is being carefully scrutinised | 0:02:53 | 0:02:55 | |
by staff at the country's largest heir hunting firm, Fraser & Fraser. | 0:02:55 | 0:03:00 | |
All we know about him is that he's dead. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:03 | |
I haven't been able to find his address. | 0:03:03 | 0:03:06 | |
Partner Neil Fraser has already spotted a potential case. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:11 | |
We're going to look at a case of Robert William Thomas. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:15 | |
He's from Orpington in Kent. | 0:03:15 | 0:03:18 | |
Death is not too long ago, January of 2010. | 0:03:18 | 0:03:22 | |
So fingers crossed, it's quite recent, | 0:03:22 | 0:03:25 | |
and there's a possibility there's going to be a property on that. | 0:03:25 | 0:03:28 | |
At the moment, I haven't got any idea of the value. | 0:03:28 | 0:03:31 | |
The Treasury's list is a major source of work for heir hunters. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:36 | |
It shows the names of people who've died without leaving a will, | 0:03:36 | 0:03:40 | |
and also lists their date and place of death. | 0:03:40 | 0:03:42 | |
But it doesn't show how much money they've left behind, | 0:03:42 | 0:03:45 | |
and amounts can range from £5,000 to many millions of pounds. | 0:03:45 | 0:03:50 | |
Thanks, bye. | 0:03:50 | 0:03:51 | |
When the values are unknown like this, | 0:03:51 | 0:03:54 | |
the heir hunters usually work for a pre-agreed percentage of the estate. | 0:03:54 | 0:03:58 | |
And this makes their job a real gamble. | 0:03:58 | 0:04:02 | |
For us to receive a workable budget, a workable amount of money, | 0:04:03 | 0:04:07 | |
we have to have a reasonable-sized pot to start with. | 0:04:07 | 0:04:11 | |
The first thing the heir hunters want to find out | 0:04:11 | 0:04:14 | |
is whether Robert William Thomas owned his own home. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:17 | |
But they've already hit a problem. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:19 | |
Robert William Thomas is a popular name, and he could have been born anywhere. | 0:04:19 | 0:04:23 | |
All we know is he dies in 2010 in Orpington, so got to start there. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:28 | |
The team will have their work cut out. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:31 | |
Thomas is the ninth most common surname in Britain. | 0:04:31 | 0:04:34 | |
Robert Thomas grew up in the 1920s. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:39 | |
After serving in the Second World War, | 0:04:41 | 0:04:43 | |
he returned home to marry his sweetheart Winifred. | 0:04:43 | 0:04:47 | |
The couple didn't have any children, | 0:04:48 | 0:04:50 | |
and according to neighbour Lily Young, Robert was passionate about two things in life - | 0:04:50 | 0:04:55 | |
his wife and his car. | 0:04:55 | 0:04:58 | |
His car was always immaculate. He'd come down with his bowl and go out there with his chammy leather. | 0:04:58 | 0:05:04 | |
If he was going to take Winnie out, | 0:05:05 | 0:05:07 | |
he made sure it was all polished before he took her. | 0:05:07 | 0:05:10 | |
I think that was all part of how he felt about Winnie, | 0:05:10 | 0:05:15 | |
cos he always spoke about her. | 0:05:15 | 0:05:17 | |
Robert was a caring and dedicated husband, | 0:05:17 | 0:05:21 | |
and in later life, he also became a keen gardener. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:24 | |
His garden was immaculate. He used to grow all his own vegetables. | 0:05:24 | 0:05:28 | |
He used to love to be able to say to Winnie, | 0:05:28 | 0:05:30 | |
"What do you want for vegetables today?" And run down and get them. | 0:05:30 | 0:05:34 | |
You wouldn't find a weed down there. Now you can't find his shed in the corner. | 0:05:34 | 0:05:39 | |
I think he was quite lost without her after she... | 0:05:41 | 0:05:45 | |
I think this happens in lots of cases where people have to do a lot for a person. | 0:05:45 | 0:05:50 | |
When that person dies, they are really lost. | 0:05:50 | 0:05:53 | |
They don't know what to do with theirself. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:56 | |
Sadly, Winifred died in 1994, leaving Bob a widower | 0:05:56 | 0:06:00 | |
until his own death, 16 years later, at the age of 88. | 0:06:00 | 0:06:04 | |
In the office, the race is on to try and find beneficiaries to Robert Thomas's estate, | 0:06:06 | 0:06:11 | |
and with rival firms competing to be the first to find and sign up heirs, | 0:06:11 | 0:06:16 | |
the team must work fast. | 0:06:16 | 0:06:18 | |
I'm hoping to find addresses, | 0:06:18 | 0:06:20 | |
and from the addresses, trying to work out a value. | 0:06:20 | 0:06:23 | |
The team is trying to find out if Robert owned his own home, and it's not looking good. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:28 | |
His address belongs to a housing association, | 0:06:28 | 0:06:31 | |
which suggests the estate may be low in value. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:35 | |
Normally a case like this would go on the back burner, | 0:06:35 | 0:06:39 | |
but today is quiet, so manager David Pacifico decides to take it one step further. | 0:06:39 | 0:06:45 | |
I've got Bob Smith doing an enquiry. | 0:06:45 | 0:06:47 | |
I'm hoping that enquiry will come up with | 0:06:47 | 0:06:50 | |
some more definite information to help us, | 0:06:50 | 0:06:53 | |
because we're dealing with very common names here. | 0:06:53 | 0:06:56 | |
The company employs a network of regional heir hunters | 0:07:02 | 0:07:05 | |
who are on standby from 7am every morning. | 0:07:05 | 0:07:09 | |
Covering all corners of the country, | 0:07:10 | 0:07:13 | |
they're ready to go wherever the search takes them. | 0:07:13 | 0:07:16 | |
Whether they're speaking to neighbours or picking up certificates from register offices, | 0:07:16 | 0:07:21 | |
they leave no stone unturned in the race to find and sign up heirs. | 0:07:21 | 0:07:25 | |
Ex-Customs official Bob Smith enjoys life at the sharp end. | 0:07:32 | 0:07:36 | |
Phone calls may glean some information, | 0:07:36 | 0:07:40 | |
but it's always better for someone to be on the doorstep. | 0:07:40 | 0:07:44 | |
It's a bit like a detective, | 0:07:44 | 0:07:46 | |
knocking on doors, asking questions about people | 0:07:46 | 0:07:49 | |
and their lifestyle, their family, information, that sort of thing. | 0:07:49 | 0:07:53 | |
You know, it's just something different. | 0:07:53 | 0:07:55 | |
And Bob's experience has given him a hunch about the deceased. | 0:07:55 | 0:07:59 | |
I wouldn't mind betting that he probably originally came from Wales. | 0:07:59 | 0:08:03 | |
Surname Thomas. Just a guess. | 0:08:03 | 0:08:07 | |
If Robert is Welsh, the team will have a real headache. | 0:08:07 | 0:08:12 | |
In Wales, nearly six per cent of the population has the surname Thomas. | 0:08:12 | 0:08:18 | |
But Bob's first concern is to speak to Robert's neighbours. | 0:08:18 | 0:08:21 | |
Did you know him as Bob? | 0:08:21 | 0:08:23 | |
-Oh, yeah, they used to just call him Old Bob. -Right. | 0:08:23 | 0:08:26 | |
As Robert didn't own his own house, | 0:08:26 | 0:08:28 | |
Bob Smith is looking for any other signs of wealth, | 0:08:28 | 0:08:32 | |
and one of the neighbours is particularly helpful. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:35 | |
-Right. But he didn't own this property? -No, he rented it. | 0:08:35 | 0:08:38 | |
-I know he had two, er, company pensions that he... -Right. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:43 | |
He phones back to the office with this new information. | 0:08:46 | 0:08:50 | |
Well, they said he was quite old, | 0:08:50 | 0:08:52 | |
and obviously he's drawing a pension. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:55 | |
Yeah. So basically, he could have been living a comfortable lifestyle. | 0:08:55 | 0:09:00 | |
Well, he's got two pensions and a state pension | 0:09:00 | 0:09:03 | |
and he's just bought an £800 plasma TV. | 0:09:03 | 0:09:06 | |
Well, it's certainly worthwhile... | 0:09:06 | 0:09:08 | |
I don't think it's going to be a big estate, | 0:09:08 | 0:09:11 | |
but it might be one of those 20, 30, 40 grand, maybe you know. | 0:09:11 | 0:09:15 | |
Yeah. The question is, where was he from? | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
We've got a potential birth in Shoreditch. | 0:09:18 | 0:09:20 | |
We'll have to get the death day. That's the thing, isn't it? | 0:09:20 | 0:09:24 | |
Bob's estimate of £20,000 to £40,000 is good news for the team. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:30 | |
It means this case is worth working. | 0:09:30 | 0:09:32 | |
If the person lived in rented accommodation, | 0:09:32 | 0:09:35 | |
it doesn't mean to say he had nothing in the bank. | 0:09:35 | 0:09:38 | |
Looks like he may have had a spare few bob or so there. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:41 | |
Now it's all systems go in the office, | 0:09:41 | 0:09:44 | |
as the team begins the search for relatives. | 0:09:44 | 0:09:47 | |
Robert Thomas's neighbour told them he hadn't had any children, | 0:09:47 | 0:09:50 | |
so the team must look to his wider family tree. | 0:09:50 | 0:09:53 | |
Although Thomas is a difficult name to research, | 0:09:53 | 0:09:56 | |
David decides he's willing to take a chance on the possible birth he's found in Shoreditch in 1921. | 0:09:56 | 0:10:02 | |
And if this is the correct Robert Thomas, | 0:10:03 | 0:10:06 | |
they have already found a brother. | 0:10:06 | 0:10:08 | |
-Henry Charles Thomas. -That's your brother, yeah? -Still alive in Gillingham. | 0:10:08 | 0:10:13 | |
This would be a significant breakthrough. Have they found the first heir? | 0:10:13 | 0:10:18 | |
Noel, in searching, identifying the deceased's birth, | 0:10:18 | 0:10:22 | |
found what could be a brother, | 0:10:22 | 0:10:24 | |
which has the same mother's maiden name | 0:10:24 | 0:10:27 | |
and born in the same district. | 0:10:27 | 0:10:29 | |
Born as Thomas, mother's maiden name Dyer, born Shoreditch. | 0:10:29 | 0:10:35 | |
So it looked like two brothers. | 0:10:35 | 0:10:37 | |
And if that is the case, | 0:10:37 | 0:10:40 | |
we think that this brother may still be alive | 0:10:40 | 0:10:43 | |
and he found a probable address for him by virtue of the electoral rolls | 0:10:43 | 0:10:49 | |
in Gillingham in Kent. | 0:10:49 | 0:10:51 | |
The heir hunters are working on the idea | 0:10:51 | 0:10:54 | |
that Bob and Henry Thomas are brothers | 0:10:54 | 0:10:56 | |
because they were both born in Shoreditch, | 0:10:56 | 0:10:59 | |
and have a mother with the maiden name Dyer. | 0:10:59 | 0:11:01 | |
It looks promising, | 0:11:01 | 0:11:03 | |
but so far they have no proof that this is the right Robert Thomas, | 0:11:03 | 0:11:07 | |
let alone that he had a brother Henry. | 0:11:07 | 0:11:09 | |
To confirm their research, they need Robert's death certificate, | 0:11:10 | 0:11:14 | |
which will show his date and place of birth. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:16 | |
So Bob is sent to Bromley Register Office. | 0:11:16 | 0:11:19 | |
If they've got it right, | 0:11:19 | 0:11:21 | |
this case could be sewn up before midday. | 0:11:21 | 0:11:24 | |
I'd like a copy of a death certificate if I may. | 0:11:24 | 0:11:27 | |
Straight away, Bob can see that one of his early fears was unfounded. | 0:11:27 | 0:11:31 | |
Robert Thomas wasn't Welsh after all. | 0:11:31 | 0:11:34 | |
Oh, he was born in London. | 0:11:34 | 0:11:35 | |
It doesn't say where. | 0:11:35 | 0:11:37 | |
-Oh, well. Thank you very much. -OK, thank you. Bye-bye. -Take care. | 0:11:37 | 0:11:41 | |
Bob needs to pass the rest of the information on to the office. | 0:11:41 | 0:11:45 | |
Hello? | 0:11:45 | 0:11:47 | |
-David, hi, it's Bob. -Hello, Bob. -Hi. | 0:11:47 | 0:11:49 | |
-I've got this death now. -Yeah? | 0:11:49 | 0:11:51 | |
-Died 16th January 2010. -Yeah? | 0:11:51 | 0:11:54 | |
Born 4th March 1921. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:57 | |
London. | 0:11:57 | 0:11:58 | |
London, right. | 0:11:58 | 0:12:00 | |
Even though the death certificate doesn't specify where in London Robert was born, | 0:12:00 | 0:12:04 | |
it's still great news for the office. | 0:12:04 | 0:12:06 | |
It looks like the birth and the brother are right. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:10 | |
The brother might be at this address in Gillingham. | 0:12:10 | 0:12:13 | |
OK, all right, no, I'll go and do that now. | 0:12:13 | 0:12:16 | |
If Henry Thomas is the brother of Robert Thomas, | 0:12:17 | 0:12:20 | |
he could be the sole heir to an estate worth £20,000 to £40,000. | 0:12:20 | 0:12:25 | |
It's likely that rival firms will also be looking at this case, | 0:12:25 | 0:12:29 | |
so Bob must get to Gillingham as quickly as he can. | 0:12:29 | 0:12:32 | |
It'll be interesting just to speak with him and, er... | 0:12:32 | 0:12:36 | |
Cos he obviously is almost certainly unaware that his brother has died. | 0:12:37 | 0:12:41 | |
And if the information from the neighbours is anything to go by, | 0:12:41 | 0:12:45 | |
he never kept in contact with him either, | 0:12:45 | 0:12:48 | |
so it'll be interesting to find out the circumstances | 0:12:48 | 0:12:51 | |
as to why that is. | 0:12:51 | 0:12:53 | |
Back at the office, there's been another breakthrough. | 0:12:56 | 0:12:59 | |
The team has found Robert Thomas's birth certificate, | 0:12:59 | 0:13:02 | |
which confirms his parents are Robert William Thomas and Rose May Dyer. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:06 | |
The possible brother we thought we may have an address for, | 0:13:06 | 0:13:10 | |
we've now proved it correct. | 0:13:10 | 0:13:11 | |
It was a Henry Charles Thomas, | 0:13:11 | 0:13:14 | |
so it looks like he's still alive, living in Gillingham in Kent, | 0:13:14 | 0:13:17 | |
where Bob Smith is on his way to see him. | 0:13:17 | 0:13:19 | |
From this, they've established that as well as Henry, | 0:13:19 | 0:13:23 | |
Robert seems to have had a second brother. | 0:13:23 | 0:13:26 | |
We'd identified one brother, Henry Charles Thomas born in 1930, | 0:13:26 | 0:13:30 | |
but having gone back and checked on a different computer system, | 0:13:30 | 0:13:34 | |
we found an extra brother, Albert G Thomas, | 0:13:34 | 0:13:36 | |
who was born 1924 in Shoreditch. | 0:13:36 | 0:13:39 | |
So very close in area and in age to the deceased, | 0:13:39 | 0:13:42 | |
so the combination of names is right as well. | 0:13:42 | 0:13:45 | |
On top of that, | 0:13:45 | 0:13:47 | |
we've now discovered that he died in Lewisham in November 2005, | 0:13:47 | 0:13:51 | |
which is the sort of area where his brother Henry Charles was too, | 0:13:51 | 0:13:55 | |
so it's all looking quite good. | 0:13:55 | 0:13:57 | |
But if it's been this easy | 0:13:57 | 0:13:58 | |
for them to crack a potentially difficult Thomas case, | 0:13:58 | 0:14:01 | |
it could have been easy for other heir hunting companies too. | 0:14:01 | 0:14:05 | |
They need to stay ahead of the competition. | 0:14:05 | 0:14:08 | |
So, before Bob Smith reaches the house of Robert's brother Henry, | 0:14:08 | 0:14:12 | |
David gives him the latest information. | 0:14:12 | 0:14:14 | |
PHONE RINGING | 0:14:14 | 0:14:16 | |
Bob Smith? | 0:14:16 | 0:14:17 | |
-Hi, Bob, just to let you know, it's going to be right. -OK. | 0:14:17 | 0:14:21 | |
Um, the other thing is, | 0:14:21 | 0:14:22 | |
there's another brother, looks like, who died. | 0:14:22 | 0:14:25 | |
-And he may have children. Died in Lewisham, 2005. Albert George. -Yeah. | 0:14:25 | 0:14:30 | |
-Might have at least four children. Maybe more, maybe less. -OK. | 0:14:30 | 0:14:34 | |
All right, thanks, Dave. | 0:14:34 | 0:14:36 | |
The team now knows that Bob Thomas, | 0:14:36 | 0:14:39 | |
son of Robert Thomas and Rose May Dyer | 0:14:39 | 0:14:42 | |
had two brothers, | 0:14:42 | 0:14:43 | |
Henry Thomas, who's alive, and Albert, who's deceased. | 0:14:43 | 0:14:48 | |
Albert may have left four children, | 0:14:48 | 0:14:50 | |
which would give them five possible heirs. | 0:14:50 | 0:14:52 | |
But when Bob gets to Henry's house... | 0:14:52 | 0:14:55 | |
Does Mr Thomas live here? | 0:14:55 | 0:14:57 | |
..it's bad news. | 0:14:57 | 0:14:58 | |
-Henry went on holiday this morning. -Blimey. | 0:14:58 | 0:15:01 | |
Granddaughter Jenny is looking after the house. | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
Does she know about the other brother Albert and his children? | 0:15:04 | 0:15:08 | |
-They obviously didn't keep in contact. -No. | 0:15:08 | 0:15:10 | |
-Were they were separated when they were younger? -Yeah. | 0:15:10 | 0:15:13 | |
What was the situation with that, then? | 0:15:13 | 0:15:15 | |
Well, um, Granddad was taken to Somerset. | 0:15:15 | 0:15:18 | |
Right. | 0:15:18 | 0:15:20 | |
And then, Albert and Bobby, as they know him, | 0:15:20 | 0:15:25 | |
was taken... They was in the army. | 0:15:25 | 0:15:27 | |
-Right, OK. -But they didn't stay in contact. | 0:15:27 | 0:15:30 | |
-I don't think. -I know... | 0:15:30 | 0:15:32 | |
PHONE RINGING | 0:15:32 | 0:15:33 | |
Jenny helps Bob by getting her mum on the phone. | 0:15:33 | 0:15:36 | |
Do you know anything about Albert's children? | 0:15:36 | 0:15:39 | |
-Lynda. -Yeah. | 0:15:39 | 0:15:41 | |
-Lynda's married. -Oh, she is? -To Martin. | 0:15:41 | 0:15:44 | |
-To Martin. Do you know his surname? -Do we know his surname? | 0:15:44 | 0:15:47 | |
-No, she doesn't know his surname. -OK, that's all right. | 0:15:47 | 0:15:51 | |
Any of the others? | 0:15:51 | 0:15:52 | |
What about any of the others? What about Iris? | 0:15:52 | 0:15:56 | |
-She's not married. -Thank you very much for that. | 0:15:56 | 0:15:59 | |
Really appreciate that. Sorry to call you out of the blue. | 0:15:59 | 0:16:02 | |
That's very helpful. Obviously, I'm sorry to say that Bobby's died, | 0:16:02 | 0:16:06 | |
um, but as a result, your granddad and Albert's kids will benefit now. | 0:16:06 | 0:16:12 | |
I don't think it's going to be a great deal of money. All right? | 0:16:12 | 0:16:15 | |
-I'll leave my card with you. -Right, thank you. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:18 | |
-Thanks very much, anyway. -Bye. -Cheers. | 0:16:18 | 0:16:20 | |
It's a frustrating setback for the team, | 0:16:22 | 0:16:24 | |
who are under pressure to sign up an heir before the competition. | 0:16:24 | 0:16:28 | |
He flew out to Turkey today. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:31 | |
-Hah! -He's got a home in Turkey. | 0:16:31 | 0:16:34 | |
He was delayed because of the volcano. | 0:16:34 | 0:16:37 | |
Right, shame it wasn't tomorrow, isn't it? | 0:16:37 | 0:16:39 | |
All they can do is courier a letter out to Henry in Turkey, | 0:16:40 | 0:16:45 | |
and hope they can find other heirs to Robert's £20,000 to £40,000 estate. | 0:16:45 | 0:16:50 | |
-You're the daughter of Albert, is that right? -Yeah. | 0:16:50 | 0:16:53 | |
Heir hunters solve thousands of cases a year | 0:17:01 | 0:17:04 | |
and millions of pounds are paid out to rightful heirs. But not every case can be cracked. | 0:17:04 | 0:17:09 | |
The Treasury has a list of over 2,000 estates that have baffled the heir hunters and remain unclaimed. | 0:17:10 | 0:17:16 | |
This could be money with your name on it. | 0:17:18 | 0:17:22 | |
The Bona Vacantia unclaimed list is a list of cases | 0:17:22 | 0:17:25 | |
we haven't found kin for. | 0:17:25 | 0:17:26 | |
The list goes back to 1997, because that's when our case management system came online. | 0:17:26 | 0:17:32 | |
The idea is to produce a list of all those solvent cases, | 0:17:32 | 0:17:35 | |
so there should be at least a few pounds in there, possibly many thousands. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:39 | |
Today, we're focusing on three names from the list. | 0:17:39 | 0:17:42 | |
Are they relatives of yours? | 0:17:42 | 0:17:44 | |
Could you be in line for an unexpected windfall? | 0:17:44 | 0:17:47 | |
Peter Paul McQualter died in Greenwich in 1997, aged 54 | 0:17:49 | 0:17:54 | |
and may have come from Ireland. | 0:17:54 | 0:17:56 | |
Are you a relative of Peter's? | 0:17:56 | 0:17:59 | |
If heirs aren't found, his money will go to the Government. | 0:17:59 | 0:18:02 | |
Did you know Gordon Lewis Monteith Keevil from Enfield in Middlesex? | 0:18:04 | 0:18:09 | |
He died on 17th May, 2008, aged 85. | 0:18:09 | 0:18:14 | |
So far, no-one's come forward to claim Gordon's estate. | 0:18:14 | 0:18:18 | |
Do you remember him? | 0:18:18 | 0:18:20 | |
Also on our list is Michael David Geaves, | 0:18:22 | 0:18:25 | |
who died on 25th February, 2011, in Ware, Hertfordshire. | 0:18:25 | 0:18:31 | |
There are only around 100 people with the name Geaves in the country | 0:18:31 | 0:18:35 | |
and they're most commonly in the Stevenage area. | 0:18:35 | 0:18:38 | |
Was Michael part of your family? | 0:18:39 | 0:18:42 | |
So far, all efforts to trace his relatives have drawn a blank. | 0:18:42 | 0:18:46 | |
Remember, this is money the Government want you to inherit, if you are an entitled heir. | 0:18:46 | 0:18:51 | |
My division isn't allowed to make a profit. We don't make commission, | 0:18:53 | 0:18:56 | |
we don't get bonuses for passing money to the Treasury. | 0:18:56 | 0:18:59 | |
In fact, the Treasury's more interested in are we finding more kin, which we are, | 0:18:59 | 0:19:04 | |
and are we good value for taxpayers' money, which we are. | 0:19:04 | 0:19:07 | |
If you think you may be related to the deceased on the list, | 0:19:08 | 0:19:11 | |
the onus is on you to prove your family link. | 0:19:11 | 0:19:15 | |
The people that are entitled | 0:19:15 | 0:19:16 | |
are those that trace their relationship in a direct line | 0:19:16 | 0:19:19 | |
from the deceased person's grandparents. | 0:19:19 | 0:19:22 | |
So, a spouse would be entitled, children would be entitled, | 0:19:22 | 0:19:26 | |
aunts and uncles, nephews and nieces, first cousins. | 0:19:26 | 0:19:30 | |
A reminder of today's names again - | 0:19:32 | 0:19:34 | |
Peter McQualter, | 0:19:34 | 0:19:36 | |
Gordon Keevil | 0:19:36 | 0:19:38 | |
and Michael Geaves. | 0:19:38 | 0:19:40 | |
So, if you're a relative of someone on today's list, | 0:19:40 | 0:19:44 | |
you could have a fortune coming your way. | 0:19:44 | 0:19:46 | |
Next, an intriguing case for the heir hunters | 0:19:51 | 0:19:54 | |
that sheds light on the turbulent times of the early 20th century. | 0:19:54 | 0:19:58 | |
Later, I'll be finding out more about the family involved, | 0:19:58 | 0:20:02 | |
their adventures and connections to the Russian revolution. | 0:20:02 | 0:20:05 | |
But, first, here's how the case unfolded. | 0:20:05 | 0:20:08 | |
In 2009, the heir hunters looked into | 0:20:12 | 0:20:15 | |
the estate of a quiet lady from Buckinghamshire, | 0:20:15 | 0:20:18 | |
who seemed to have led a fairly unassuming life. | 0:20:18 | 0:20:21 | |
But little did they know they were about to uncover | 0:20:21 | 0:20:24 | |
a tale of incredible wealth, world travel, | 0:20:24 | 0:20:27 | |
and international espionage. | 0:20:27 | 0:20:30 | |
Alexandra Koshevnikova died in June 2008 in Beaconsfield. | 0:20:30 | 0:20:35 | |
She'd lived to an incredible 100 years old | 0:20:35 | 0:20:38 | |
and was fondly remembered by friends like Hazel Francis. | 0:20:38 | 0:20:42 | |
Alex was kind, loving and very friendly, | 0:20:42 | 0:20:46 | |
and everybody adored her. | 0:20:46 | 0:20:48 | |
Sometimes she used to skip along the balcony, "Hello", waving, | 0:20:48 | 0:20:53 | |
and that was it, you know. | 0:20:53 | 0:20:55 | |
But she always said hello to you. | 0:20:55 | 0:20:57 | |
Alexandra was a keen poet | 0:20:57 | 0:20:59 | |
and an accomplished pianist, | 0:20:59 | 0:21:01 | |
but she was also a very modest lady, | 0:21:01 | 0:21:03 | |
and for the most part, | 0:21:03 | 0:21:05 | |
kept herself to herself. | 0:21:05 | 0:21:06 | |
Janet Smith was Alexandra's neighbour for 44 years. | 0:21:06 | 0:21:11 | |
Alexandra lived immediately above us. | 0:21:12 | 0:21:14 | |
Um, it was just a three-bedroom maisonette. | 0:21:14 | 0:21:17 | |
When Sandra was playing the grand piano, | 0:21:18 | 0:21:21 | |
we would turn the television off, just to sit and listen, | 0:21:21 | 0:21:24 | |
because it was so beautiful and it used to come down through the floor. | 0:21:24 | 0:21:28 | |
And we did enjoy that. | 0:21:28 | 0:21:30 | |
Because Alexandra Koshevnikova died without leaving a will, | 0:21:30 | 0:21:33 | |
her estate was advertised by the Treasury in 2008. | 0:21:33 | 0:21:37 | |
Her unusual surname caught the attention of Neil Fraser, | 0:21:41 | 0:21:45 | |
partner at heir hunting firm, Fraser & Fraser. | 0:21:45 | 0:21:49 | |
On this particular case, we started looking around the surname, | 0:21:49 | 0:21:54 | |
trying to play with the surname | 0:21:54 | 0:21:56 | |
to see if there were other people in the UK records, with the same surname. | 0:21:56 | 0:22:00 | |
A rare name like Koshevnikova | 0:22:00 | 0:22:02 | |
could make the search for relatives quite easy. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:05 | |
And initially, they made quick progress. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:08 | |
We were able to identify not only the mother, but also her brother. | 0:22:08 | 0:22:13 | |
Um, so that's two hits, really. | 0:22:13 | 0:22:15 | |
It certainly helps form a family tree. | 0:22:15 | 0:22:18 | |
It's two steps in the right direction, at least. | 0:22:18 | 0:22:21 | |
Alexandra's mother Susanna | 0:22:21 | 0:22:23 | |
and her brother Vladimir | 0:22:23 | 0:22:24 | |
had both died in the UK, | 0:22:24 | 0:22:26 | |
but they were unable to find any other relatives in the country. | 0:22:26 | 0:22:30 | |
The only other information they had was that the family came from Russia. | 0:22:30 | 0:22:34 | |
One of the things which we have to do | 0:22:34 | 0:22:37 | |
is try and locate a place of birth. | 0:22:37 | 0:22:40 | |
The majority of the time, when we have someone who's born overseas, | 0:22:40 | 0:22:43 | |
the death certificate just gives the country of birth, not the place. | 0:22:43 | 0:22:48 | |
Without knowing the exact place of birth in Russia, | 0:22:48 | 0:22:51 | |
the teams had no real way of finding any family. | 0:22:51 | 0:22:54 | |
Neil had no choice but to call a halt to the research. | 0:22:57 | 0:23:01 | |
But then, something remarkable happened. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:04 | |
Although we'd stopped research on this case, | 0:23:04 | 0:23:06 | |
our feelers had already gone out to try and find a place of birth, | 0:23:06 | 0:23:10 | |
and we've had letters back from America, | 0:23:10 | 0:23:12 | |
which have indicated some more information about Alexandra. | 0:23:12 | 0:23:16 | |
Neil had ordered the family's naturalisation papers, | 0:23:16 | 0:23:20 | |
which detailed their journey from Russia to the UK. | 0:23:20 | 0:23:23 | |
Unlike a usual naturalisation which we'd find, | 0:23:25 | 0:23:27 | |
which may be two, three, four pages long, | 0:23:27 | 0:23:31 | |
this one had 50 or 60 pages in, and a very, very detailed history | 0:23:31 | 0:23:36 | |
about the life which the family had had in Russia, | 0:23:36 | 0:23:40 | |
and their journey throughout the world before they came to the UK. | 0:23:40 | 0:23:44 | |
But a significant piece of information in the records | 0:23:46 | 0:23:49 | |
was that in 1921, Alexandra, Vladimir and their mother | 0:23:49 | 0:23:53 | |
had spent several months | 0:23:53 | 0:23:55 | |
living at one of the world's most expensive hotels, | 0:23:55 | 0:23:58 | |
the Waldorf Astoria in New York. | 0:23:58 | 0:24:00 | |
An immigrant family living in, not just a hotel, | 0:24:00 | 0:24:04 | |
but the Waldorf Astoria, | 0:24:04 | 0:24:06 | |
um, you suddenly think, they must be very, very rich indeed. | 0:24:06 | 0:24:10 | |
Now the case looked very exciting. | 0:24:11 | 0:24:13 | |
It suddenly makes us see that | 0:24:14 | 0:24:16 | |
maybe we're not dealing with a small estate, | 0:24:16 | 0:24:19 | |
but we could be dealing with an estate worth tens of thousands of pounds, | 0:24:19 | 0:24:23 | |
possibly even millions of pounds. | 0:24:23 | 0:24:25 | |
And there was more good news. | 0:24:26 | 0:24:28 | |
A university in America had sent Neil letters and poetry | 0:24:28 | 0:24:31 | |
written by Alexandra. | 0:24:31 | 0:24:34 | |
When we eventually got sight of her letters, | 0:24:34 | 0:24:37 | |
they came back, and they were all in Russian, | 0:24:37 | 0:24:40 | |
for a start, which is slightly problematic | 0:24:40 | 0:24:42 | |
because I don't speak Russian. | 0:24:42 | 0:24:44 | |
Having had them translated, | 0:24:44 | 0:24:46 | |
the team noticed that Alexandra sometimes used the alias Tulunova, | 0:24:46 | 0:24:50 | |
meaning Lady from Tulun. | 0:24:50 | 0:24:53 | |
This Tulun is the place where she's actually born originally. | 0:24:53 | 0:24:56 | |
So having searched for quite a while, | 0:24:56 | 0:25:00 | |
trying to find the place of birth, | 0:25:00 | 0:25:02 | |
all the time it was staring me straight in the face, really. | 0:25:02 | 0:25:06 | |
Her alias gave me her place of birth. | 0:25:06 | 0:25:08 | |
Bit by bit, | 0:25:08 | 0:25:10 | |
they were starting to build a picture | 0:25:10 | 0:25:12 | |
of Alexandra's life in Russia. | 0:25:12 | 0:25:14 | |
She had been born into a wealthy mining family | 0:25:15 | 0:25:18 | |
in the Central Russian town of Tulun in 1907. | 0:25:18 | 0:25:20 | |
At a time when most Russians were living in poverty, | 0:25:20 | 0:25:24 | |
Alexandra and her brother Vladimir enjoyed a privileged upbringing. | 0:25:24 | 0:25:29 | |
Both brothers and sisters would go to good schools. | 0:25:29 | 0:25:34 | |
They would also have a very wide musical education, | 0:25:34 | 0:25:37 | |
they would be taken to museums, | 0:25:37 | 0:25:39 | |
they would travel. | 0:25:39 | 0:25:40 | |
But all that changed in 1917, | 0:25:42 | 0:25:45 | |
as Russia plunged into revolution and civil war. | 0:25:45 | 0:25:48 | |
GUNFIRE | 0:25:48 | 0:25:51 | |
Tsar Nicholas II was overthrown by the working class population | 0:25:51 | 0:25:55 | |
who were starving to death under his oppressive regime. | 0:25:55 | 0:25:59 | |
It was a violent seizure of power. | 0:25:59 | 0:26:03 | |
There was a great deal of bloodshed, | 0:26:03 | 0:26:06 | |
there was a great deal of elimination of groups. | 0:26:06 | 0:26:12 | |
Fighting broke out between the working class Bolsheviks | 0:26:13 | 0:26:17 | |
and the aristocratic White Russians like Alexandra's family. | 0:26:17 | 0:26:20 | |
And in 1921, disaster struck. | 0:26:22 | 0:26:25 | |
Bolshevik soldiers murdered Alexandra's father, | 0:26:25 | 0:26:29 | |
leaving her mother a widow | 0:26:29 | 0:26:30 | |
in a desperate situation. | 0:26:30 | 0:26:32 | |
She would have to try and escape, | 0:26:32 | 0:26:34 | |
because otherwise, er, she could get killed, | 0:26:34 | 0:26:39 | |
the children could get killed | 0:26:39 | 0:26:41 | |
if they found themselves involved in the civil war. | 0:26:41 | 0:26:45 | |
There was really no future for her. | 0:26:46 | 0:26:49 | |
Fearing for the lives of herself and her two children, | 0:26:49 | 0:26:52 | |
Susanna had little choice but to flee her homeland. | 0:26:52 | 0:26:56 | |
It seems she grabbed all the money she could find, | 0:26:56 | 0:26:59 | |
and escaped through Asia to America, | 0:26:59 | 0:27:01 | |
finally checking in to the Waldorf Astoria. | 0:27:01 | 0:27:04 | |
Designed to be the most luxurious hotel in the world, | 0:27:07 | 0:27:10 | |
the Waldorf Astoria oozed opulence from every corner. | 0:27:10 | 0:27:14 | |
But luxury like this came at a price. | 0:27:15 | 0:27:18 | |
A suite cost thousands of dollars a year in the 1920s. | 0:27:18 | 0:27:22 | |
As Susanna's savings began to run dry, | 0:27:22 | 0:27:25 | |
the family was forced to relocate. | 0:27:25 | 0:27:28 | |
For an educated and cultured family like the Koshevnikovs, | 0:27:28 | 0:27:31 | |
the obvious destination was Berlin. | 0:27:31 | 0:27:34 | |
Berlin was certainly an attractive goal. | 0:27:34 | 0:27:37 | |
There were rather different, but still very strong cultural links. | 0:27:37 | 0:27:42 | |
Until the early '30s, | 0:27:42 | 0:27:44 | |
Russians, particularly in Berlin, | 0:27:44 | 0:27:48 | |
were quite numerous, | 0:27:48 | 0:27:49 | |
and were part of the post-war intellectual and cultural life | 0:27:49 | 0:27:55 | |
of Germany in those years, in that decade. | 0:27:55 | 0:28:00 | |
Surrounded by like-minded people, | 0:28:00 | 0:28:02 | |
Susanna and her two children settled in Germany. | 0:28:02 | 0:28:05 | |
Vladimir went to university to study journalism, | 0:28:05 | 0:28:08 | |
and Alexandra indulged in her passion for music and poetry. | 0:28:08 | 0:28:13 | |
The Koshevnikovs seemed to have found their home from home. | 0:28:13 | 0:28:17 | |
Yet, in 1951, they showed up in England. | 0:28:18 | 0:28:21 | |
The heir hunters were on the trail | 0:28:21 | 0:28:23 | |
of uncovering what happened to their fortune. | 0:28:23 | 0:28:25 | |
They were about to reveal the family's links to British espionage | 0:28:25 | 0:28:30 | |
in the middle of the Cold War. | 0:28:30 | 0:28:32 | |
They were part of a group of people | 0:28:33 | 0:28:36 | |
um, to whom this country owes its freedom. | 0:28:36 | 0:28:41 | |
It's a fascinating story and now even more information about the Koshevnikovs has come to light. | 0:28:45 | 0:28:52 | |
In order to delve deeper into Alexandra's family's exotic past, | 0:28:52 | 0:28:58 | |
'I'm meeting historian John Smeal. | 0:28:58 | 0:29:00 | |
'He's unearthed even more intriguing facts about the family's origins | 0:29:00 | 0:29:04 | |
'and their lives during the Revolution.' | 0:29:04 | 0:29:06 | |
What have you managed to find out about the Koshevnikova family? | 0:29:06 | 0:29:10 | |
We found out they have connections to the gold-mining industry | 0:29:10 | 0:29:14 | |
in Eastern Siberia, | 0:29:14 | 0:29:17 | |
in particular a large mine at the town of Bodaybo, | 0:29:17 | 0:29:21 | |
north-eastern Siberia, north of Lake Baikal. | 0:29:21 | 0:29:24 | |
And they were owners of a mine there. | 0:29:24 | 0:29:28 | |
'No wonder the family could afford expensive hotels in New York. | 0:29:28 | 0:29:32 | |
'John's research doesn't end there. | 0:29:32 | 0:29:34 | |
'The Koshevnikov family's lives were upturned by a number of dramatic world events.' | 0:29:34 | 0:29:40 | |
-So, what happened to the family after World War One broke out? -When the war broke out, | 0:29:40 | 0:29:44 | |
apparently, the father volunteered for service with the Russian Army | 0:29:44 | 0:29:49 | |
and became a sapper in an engineering corps. | 0:29:49 | 0:29:54 | |
His wife and family then moved from Eastern Siberia back to European Russia, | 0:29:54 | 0:29:59 | |
initially to Moscow, | 0:29:59 | 0:30:01 | |
presumably to be closer to the father when he was in service. | 0:30:01 | 0:30:06 | |
It's quite possible that they had their own property. | 0:30:06 | 0:30:10 | |
In Moscow, they seem to have been a pretty wealthy family. | 0:30:10 | 0:30:14 | |
A little later, they moved for a while to the city of Kharkov, | 0:30:14 | 0:30:18 | |
which is in Eastern Ukraine, | 0:30:18 | 0:30:21 | |
and would've been just that bit closer to the front and the fighting, | 0:30:21 | 0:30:25 | |
whilst still safe. | 0:30:25 | 0:30:26 | |
It would've given them a bit more opportunity to have | 0:30:26 | 0:30:30 | |
a bit more contact with the father whilst he was in service. | 0:30:30 | 0:30:35 | |
-And what would've happened then? -Well, Russia was relatively peaceful | 0:30:35 | 0:30:39 | |
until the beginning of 1917, but then the whole place fell to pieces. | 0:30:39 | 0:30:43 | |
This was the start of a social revolution that would change not just the family's fortunes, | 0:30:43 | 0:30:48 | |
but the whole country's history as well. | 0:30:48 | 0:30:51 | |
The Tsar abdicated, a new government was established in Petrograd, a provisional government. | 0:30:51 | 0:30:57 | |
Soldiers began deserting from the trenches, workers going on strike and so forth. | 0:30:57 | 0:31:03 | |
Over the course of 1917, | 0:31:03 | 0:31:05 | |
it became a time of really great social disruption and upheaval. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:11 | |
The family, like a lot of people of means in Russia at that time, | 0:31:11 | 0:31:16 | |
tried to shelter themselves by moving to Crimea, | 0:31:16 | 0:31:19 | |
which was where many families of means, noble families and, indeed, the Romanovs themselves, | 0:31:19 | 0:31:25 | |
had summer villas, | 0:31:25 | 0:31:28 | |
and the Crimea remained a relatively peaceful haven. | 0:31:28 | 0:31:33 | |
'This relative peace didn't last long. | 0:31:33 | 0:31:37 | |
'In the aftermath of the 1917 revolution, | 0:31:37 | 0:31:39 | |
'even the Crimea was affected.' | 0:31:39 | 0:31:42 | |
They seem to have left the Crimea and returned, initially, back to Moscow. | 0:31:42 | 0:31:47 | |
Apparently, the father, at this point, opted to join the anti-Bolshevik movement, | 0:31:47 | 0:31:52 | |
whilst his wife and children retreated into Siberia, | 0:31:52 | 0:31:55 | |
presumably back to the family home in the east. | 0:31:55 | 0:31:59 | |
'But they would've found nothing but disruption and devastation going home. | 0:31:59 | 0:32:04 | |
'In 1918 and 1919, the mining industry collapsed | 0:32:04 | 0:32:09 | |
'and John thinks it's around this time that Alexandra's father was killed by the Bolshevik rebels. | 0:32:09 | 0:32:15 | |
'It's this period when the remaining family flee | 0:32:15 | 0:32:18 | |
'to the east of the country.' | 0:32:18 | 0:32:20 | |
And when did they leave? | 0:32:20 | 0:32:23 | |
They left in 1920. They applied in the spring of 1920 for permission | 0:32:23 | 0:32:27 | |
to pass through the port of Vladivostok | 0:32:27 | 0:32:30 | |
and made their way out of the country in 1920, | 0:32:30 | 0:32:33 | |
initially across the Pacific to California, | 0:32:33 | 0:32:37 | |
along with a large number of emigrates | 0:32:37 | 0:32:40 | |
to create what was a substantial emigre community in San Francisco. | 0:32:40 | 0:32:45 | |
They stayed at one of the best hotels in San Francisco, | 0:32:45 | 0:32:49 | |
so they must have had some money with them, | 0:32:49 | 0:32:52 | |
or perhaps gold and jewels which they had converted their funds into, whilst in Russia. | 0:32:52 | 0:32:57 | |
This enabled them to survive a very, very comfortable life | 0:32:57 | 0:33:01 | |
before then moving on to New York, where they stayed at the Waldorf. | 0:33:01 | 0:33:07 | |
'A fact heir hunter Neil had already discovered. | 0:33:07 | 0:33:10 | |
'Interestingly, John speculates the reason why the family chose to stay at such an expensive hotel | 0:33:10 | 0:33:16 | |
'was because, sadly, they believed they'd be going back home, | 0:33:16 | 0:33:20 | |
'not realising they'd actually be exiles for the rest of their lives.' | 0:33:20 | 0:33:25 | |
Here are some more unsolved cases where heirs still need to be found. | 0:33:33 | 0:33:37 | |
The Government list of over 2,000 unclaimed estates is money that is owed to members of the public. | 0:33:37 | 0:33:44 | |
But you must be related by blood ties to the deceased. | 0:33:44 | 0:33:48 | |
People need to prove their entitlement | 0:33:48 | 0:33:50 | |
by producing documentary evidence, various certificates of birth, death and marriage. | 0:33:50 | 0:33:56 | |
We will tell them what's required. | 0:33:56 | 0:33:59 | |
And then they will need documents of identity. | 0:33:59 | 0:34:02 | |
If your claim looks like it has merit, | 0:34:02 | 0:34:05 | |
then the Bona Vacantia division will take it further. | 0:34:05 | 0:34:08 | |
You get two experienced people looking at each claim. | 0:34:08 | 0:34:11 | |
Ultimately, if it's a big claim, or a bit complex, it could go higher. | 0:34:11 | 0:34:15 | |
We generally find the right answer. If there isn't evidence, we can't give the money away. | 0:34:15 | 0:34:20 | |
If there is, the case is made out. | 0:34:20 | 0:34:21 | |
Let's look at some of the unclaimed estates from the list. | 0:34:21 | 0:34:25 | |
Do these names mean anything to you? Are they relatives of yours? | 0:34:26 | 0:34:31 | |
William Oates died in October 2009 in Cornwall. | 0:34:31 | 0:34:35 | |
The surname Oates is common to Cornwall and also to Sheffield. | 0:34:35 | 0:34:40 | |
Was William from a Cornish family? Could you be related to him | 0:34:40 | 0:34:45 | |
and entitled to a share of his unclaimed estate? | 0:34:45 | 0:34:48 | |
Martin Pitters died on 7th December, 2006 in Northampton. | 0:34:50 | 0:34:55 | |
Pitters is an extremely rare surname, | 0:34:55 | 0:34:57 | |
shared by just a handful of people in the UK. | 0:34:57 | 0:35:01 | |
Do you share the surname Pitters? | 0:35:01 | 0:35:04 | |
Could you be Martin's heir? | 0:35:04 | 0:35:06 | |
William Gary Sargent died in Tipton in the West Midlands | 0:35:09 | 0:35:13 | |
on Christmas Eve, 2008. | 0:35:13 | 0:35:15 | |
I've got William's death certificate, | 0:35:15 | 0:35:17 | |
which contains some more information about him. | 0:35:17 | 0:35:20 | |
It shows he was born on 8th February, 1941, in Swansea. | 0:35:20 | 0:35:25 | |
The death certificate also shows that William worked in a factory. | 0:35:25 | 0:35:29 | |
Was he a friend or colleague of yours? Did he ever talk to you about his family? | 0:35:29 | 0:35:34 | |
If you think you can prove definitively | 0:35:34 | 0:35:36 | |
that you are related to any of the names today, then the Bona Vacantia division wants to hear from you. | 0:35:36 | 0:35:42 | |
If people want further information about Bona Vacantia and what we do, | 0:35:42 | 0:35:47 | |
the first port of call would be our website, | 0:35:47 | 0:35:50 | |
which has information about who's an entitled relative, | 0:35:50 | 0:35:54 | |
how to put in a claim, how we deal with estates, and things like that. | 0:35:54 | 0:35:59 | |
A reminder of those names again... | 0:35:59 | 0:36:03 | |
William Oates, | 0:36:03 | 0:36:04 | |
Martin Pitters | 0:36:04 | 0:36:06 | |
and William Sargent. | 0:36:06 | 0:36:08 | |
If today's names are relatives of yours, | 0:36:08 | 0:36:11 | |
you could be entitled to a forgotten fortune. | 0:36:11 | 0:36:14 | |
Now back to the search for heirs to the estate of Russian exile, | 0:36:20 | 0:36:23 | |
Alexandra Koshevnikova, who died without leaving a will. | 0:36:23 | 0:36:27 | |
The heir hunters were searching for a beneficiary to Alexandra's estate. | 0:36:30 | 0:36:34 | |
She died in Buckinghamshire in 2008. | 0:36:34 | 0:36:38 | |
They'd uncovered new evidence that might finally give them a lead. | 0:36:38 | 0:36:43 | |
Alexandra Koshevnikova was from a rich family | 0:36:43 | 0:36:46 | |
who'd fled the Communist forces after the Revolution. | 0:36:46 | 0:36:50 | |
After crossing three continents and staying in luxurious hotels, | 0:36:50 | 0:36:54 | |
Alexandra and her family had settled in Germany. | 0:36:54 | 0:36:57 | |
Now the heir hunters have been sent her naturalisation papers, | 0:36:57 | 0:37:01 | |
and it seemed that Alexandra could have been very wealthy. | 0:37:01 | 0:37:05 | |
An immigrant family living in, | 0:37:05 | 0:37:07 | |
not just a hotel, but the Waldorf Astoria. | 0:37:07 | 0:37:10 | |
Um, you suddenly think they must be very, very rich indeed. | 0:37:10 | 0:37:14 | |
But did Alexandra die a wealthy woman? | 0:37:14 | 0:37:17 | |
And were there heirs to her estate? | 0:37:17 | 0:37:20 | |
To find out, the team needed to know | 0:37:20 | 0:37:22 | |
why she, her mother and her brother all came to the UK. | 0:37:22 | 0:37:26 | |
BOMBS EXPLODING | 0:37:26 | 0:37:28 | |
60 years ago, the family was living in war-torn Berlin. | 0:37:28 | 0:37:31 | |
But the money they'd brought from Russia was starting to run out. | 0:37:31 | 0:37:36 | |
They probably thought, | 0:37:36 | 0:37:38 | |
as many Russians did, that once things had settled down, | 0:37:38 | 0:37:42 | |
they would be able to go back. | 0:37:42 | 0:37:43 | |
That may be one explanation of why they spent so much money | 0:37:43 | 0:37:48 | |
so quickly, | 0:37:48 | 0:37:50 | |
and then, | 0:37:50 | 0:37:52 | |
suddenly they realised that their Russia was no longer there. | 0:37:52 | 0:37:57 | |
-They -couldn't -go back. | 0:37:57 | 0:37:58 | |
With their mother Susanna now in her sixties, | 0:37:59 | 0:38:02 | |
the responsibility of providing for the family fell to Vladimir. | 0:38:02 | 0:38:06 | |
In the late 1940s, he moved to England in search of work, | 0:38:06 | 0:38:10 | |
and landed a remarkable job. | 0:38:10 | 0:38:12 | |
After the Second World War, the Government needed Russian speakers | 0:38:12 | 0:38:16 | |
to train British spies. | 0:38:16 | 0:38:18 | |
There were Soviet sympathisers, | 0:38:18 | 0:38:22 | |
not just within the Civil Service, | 0:38:22 | 0:38:24 | |
but actually within the British intelligence community, | 0:38:24 | 0:38:27 | |
who were meant to protect us from the Soviets. | 0:38:27 | 0:38:30 | |
When that became clear, | 0:38:30 | 0:38:32 | |
it really did make British policy-makers understand | 0:38:32 | 0:38:36 | |
that the Soviet threat was a real threat. | 0:38:36 | 0:38:39 | |
In 1951, the Government set up the Joint Services School for Linguists, | 0:38:39 | 0:38:45 | |
and employed native Russians as language teachers. | 0:38:45 | 0:38:48 | |
They quickly recruited Vladimir, | 0:38:48 | 0:38:50 | |
who was a Russian exile opposed to the Soviet regime. | 0:38:50 | 0:38:54 | |
The purpose of the JSSL | 0:38:54 | 0:38:57 | |
was to train British servicemen | 0:38:57 | 0:39:02 | |
to speak and understand the sort of Russian | 0:39:02 | 0:39:08 | |
that was being used by Soviet tank commanders, Soviet pilots, | 0:39:08 | 0:39:13 | |
Soviet naval captains, | 0:39:13 | 0:39:16 | |
Soviet submarine commanders. | 0:39:16 | 0:39:19 | |
To listen to the wireless traffic that they generated, | 0:39:19 | 0:39:23 | |
and that intelligence was vital, | 0:39:23 | 0:39:26 | |
and it prevented the Cold War | 0:39:26 | 0:39:28 | |
from ever turning into a hot one in Europe. | 0:39:28 | 0:39:32 | |
This World War II airfield in Crail in Scotland | 0:39:34 | 0:39:37 | |
was a base for the top-secret language school | 0:39:37 | 0:39:40 | |
where Vladimir became a teacher. | 0:39:40 | 0:39:42 | |
Dave Allen was taught by Vladimir in the 1950s. | 0:39:44 | 0:39:48 | |
He's now making his first visit back in over 50 years. | 0:39:48 | 0:39:52 | |
At the time, this was a very busy roadway, | 0:39:53 | 0:39:56 | |
with soldiers, sailors and airmen | 0:39:56 | 0:39:58 | |
all going about their Russian language courses, | 0:39:58 | 0:40:02 | |
and I think there were also Polish and Czech courses | 0:40:02 | 0:40:06 | |
going on here at the same time. | 0:40:06 | 0:40:08 | |
But they were in the minority. | 0:40:08 | 0:40:10 | |
Most of the people here were learning Russian. | 0:40:10 | 0:40:12 | |
This is a typical classroom | 0:40:16 | 0:40:18 | |
that we'd have had one of the lessons with Mr Koshevnikov. | 0:40:18 | 0:40:21 | |
We'd have had the tables here, | 0:40:21 | 0:40:24 | |
and Vladimir Koshevnikov would have sat in the front, | 0:40:24 | 0:40:28 | |
usually in a fairly relaxed position, sort of leaning back. | 0:40:28 | 0:40:32 | |
He was quite a big guy and he had sort of brown, wavy hair. | 0:40:32 | 0:40:36 | |
Very good-looking man. | 0:40:36 | 0:40:38 | |
And, er, it would be really quite pleasant. | 0:40:38 | 0:40:42 | |
Dave's not the only former student with fond recollections of Vladimir. | 0:40:42 | 0:40:48 | |
The first really mad Russian | 0:40:48 | 0:40:50 | |
we'd ever met. | 0:40:50 | 0:40:51 | |
It was a sort of, I don't know, | 0:40:51 | 0:40:54 | |
a kind of concept | 0:40:54 | 0:40:55 | |
that Russians were a bit wild. | 0:40:55 | 0:40:57 | |
And that was Vladimir Koshevnikov. | 0:40:57 | 0:40:59 | |
Anyway, Vladimir Koshevnikov was thoroughly eccentric. | 0:40:59 | 0:41:03 | |
We would flop down on the grass. | 0:41:03 | 0:41:06 | |
He would put two bottles of white wine on the grass, | 0:41:06 | 0:41:09 | |
and throw down some packets of cigarettes. | 0:41:09 | 0:41:12 | |
And you had to have a glass of wine | 0:41:12 | 0:41:15 | |
before you were allowed to read or recite a poem. | 0:41:15 | 0:41:19 | |
Because he said the object of drinking wine is to liberate the soul. | 0:41:19 | 0:41:23 | |
That's what the Russians believe. They still believe it, incidentally. | 0:41:23 | 0:41:27 | |
That a bottle of vodka, you drink it to liberate the soul. | 0:41:27 | 0:41:30 | |
Vladimir's informal teaching style appealed to the trainee spies. | 0:41:30 | 0:41:35 | |
Vladimir Koshevnikov was a unique teacher, | 0:41:35 | 0:41:38 | |
and a very gifted man, very artistic. | 0:41:38 | 0:41:43 | |
And he created a very good learning environment. | 0:41:43 | 0:41:45 | |
Because his knowledge of Russian was so good, | 0:41:45 | 0:41:48 | |
we learned a lot about Russian in a kind of literary sense. | 0:41:48 | 0:41:52 | |
The Koshevnikovs had the perfect credentials for the JSSL, | 0:41:52 | 0:41:57 | |
so Vladimir's sister Alexandra was also recruited, | 0:41:57 | 0:42:00 | |
and in 1951, the whole family moved from Berlin to the UK. | 0:42:00 | 0:42:05 | |
There was a sister there, and she went on to teach in later courses. | 0:42:05 | 0:42:11 | |
But the mother must have been a burden to some extent | 0:42:11 | 0:42:15 | |
because she was an old lady | 0:42:15 | 0:42:16 | |
who had to be looked after in a foreign country. | 0:42:16 | 0:42:19 | |
This close-knit family who'd travelled across six countries | 0:42:19 | 0:42:23 | |
finally settled in Beaconsfield in 1966. | 0:42:23 | 0:42:27 | |
Immersed in their work at the JSSL, | 0:42:27 | 0:42:30 | |
neither Alexandra or Vladimir ever married or had any children. | 0:42:30 | 0:42:35 | |
Instead, they lived together with their mother Susanna | 0:42:35 | 0:42:38 | |
for another 25 years, | 0:42:38 | 0:42:40 | |
until she died in 1976. | 0:42:40 | 0:42:42 | |
Sadly, Alexandra's beloved brother Vladimir died just two years later, | 0:42:42 | 0:42:47 | |
and for the first time in her life, she was alone. | 0:42:47 | 0:42:52 | |
Sandra was on her own when her mother and brother had died, | 0:42:52 | 0:42:55 | |
yes, I would say, she was a lonely person to a certain extent, | 0:42:55 | 0:42:59 | |
although she seemed quite self-sufficient in many ways. | 0:42:59 | 0:43:02 | |
But yes, I would have said she was a lonely person. | 0:43:02 | 0:43:05 | |
Alexandra threw herself further into her work, | 0:43:05 | 0:43:09 | |
and became increasingly reclusive. | 0:43:09 | 0:43:11 | |
I gather she'd had a hard life before they came to this country, | 0:43:12 | 0:43:16 | |
and although I know she'd always worked as a translator, | 0:43:16 | 0:43:20 | |
I would have thought she'd have had some money, | 0:43:20 | 0:43:23 | |
but she always appeared not to have a lot of money, | 0:43:23 | 0:43:26 | |
and, you know, I just assumed she hadn't got a lot of money. | 0:43:26 | 0:43:30 | |
Alexandra passed away in June 2008 at the age of 100. | 0:43:30 | 0:43:36 | |
But one question remained. | 0:43:37 | 0:43:39 | |
Having been born wealthy and watched their mother's money run out, | 0:43:39 | 0:43:43 | |
had Vladimir and Alexandra earned enough | 0:43:43 | 0:43:45 | |
as spy school language teachers to leave a valuable estate? | 0:43:45 | 0:43:50 | |
They've lived this very, very exciting life, | 0:43:50 | 0:43:52 | |
and it looks as though it's a family | 0:43:52 | 0:43:54 | |
which has ended up with virtually nothing. | 0:43:54 | 0:43:57 | |
So from wealthy beginnings, | 0:43:57 | 0:43:59 | |
it turned out the Koshevnikovs had died poor. | 0:43:59 | 0:44:03 | |
And with no traces of any relatives in the UK, | 0:44:03 | 0:44:07 | |
Neil had nowhere left to go. | 0:44:07 | 0:44:09 | |
We have spent quite a lot of money. | 0:44:11 | 0:44:13 | |
We spent quite a lot of money sending researchers out, | 0:44:13 | 0:44:17 | |
sending letters to America, | 0:44:17 | 0:44:18 | |
applying for naturalisations, | 0:44:18 | 0:44:20 | |
having an awful amount of documents translated, | 0:44:20 | 0:44:23 | |
and just the research in the first point - | 0:44:23 | 0:44:26 | |
the number of staff we had on it. | 0:44:26 | 0:44:29 | |
We're never going to make that money back. | 0:44:29 | 0:44:31 | |
So this is a case which we unfortunately can't take any further. | 0:44:31 | 0:44:35 | |
Unless we suddenly find out | 0:44:35 | 0:44:37 | |
that the estate's worth a lot more than we thought. | 0:44:37 | 0:44:40 | |
But I seriously doubt that. | 0:44:40 | 0:44:42 | |
But for the heir hunters, the case of Alexandra Koshevnikova has been a memorable one. | 0:44:42 | 0:44:47 | |
It's been quite a nice journey, | 0:44:47 | 0:44:50 | |
even if we're not going to get any fees or anything out of it. | 0:44:50 | 0:44:53 | |
It's taught us a bit more about research, | 0:44:53 | 0:44:56 | |
which hopefully will come in useful next time we have to do a case. | 0:44:56 | 0:45:00 | |
While the case isn't valuable enough for the heir hunters to continue, | 0:45:00 | 0:45:04 | |
it's believed to be worth between £5,000 and £15,000, | 0:45:04 | 0:45:07 | |
and it's still unclaimed. | 0:45:07 | 0:45:09 | |
Could you be a rightful heir? | 0:45:09 | 0:45:12 | |
Finally, let's return to the story of Robert Thomas, who died without a will and with no known kin. | 0:45:19 | 0:45:25 | |
The heir hunters have discovered he'd been in the army, | 0:45:25 | 0:45:28 | |
but, sadly, not much else. | 0:45:28 | 0:45:30 | |
In order to find out more about his experiences in the Second World War, | 0:45:30 | 0:45:34 | |
I'm meeting military expert, Taff Gillingham, | 0:45:34 | 0:45:37 | |
'who's going to help me interpret Robert's war records.' | 0:45:37 | 0:45:41 | |
So, what have you found relating to Robert? | 0:45:41 | 0:45:44 | |
OK, we've got his service record from the Ministry of Defence. | 0:45:44 | 0:45:48 | |
This gives us a clear indication of what he's done and when he's done it. | 0:45:48 | 0:45:52 | |
It shows that he joins in April 1941. By this time, he's 20 years old. | 0:45:52 | 0:45:57 | |
Normally, you'd join at 18 - that's when you'd be called up. | 0:45:57 | 0:46:01 | |
There can be a number of reasons for that. | 0:46:01 | 0:46:04 | |
He was a labourer, a bricklayer by trade, | 0:46:04 | 0:46:06 | |
and my guess is that in the early part of the war, there's an enormous need for new barracks, airfields, | 0:46:06 | 0:46:12 | |
so he may well have been doing that kind of work, or, after the Blitz, it may well have been rebuilding | 0:46:12 | 0:46:17 | |
important buildings in the centre of London. | 0:46:17 | 0:46:20 | |
What regiment was he in? | 0:46:20 | 0:46:21 | |
He joins the Royal Artillery and, specifically, he joins | 0:46:21 | 0:46:24 | |
a light anti-aircraft battery | 0:46:24 | 0:46:26 | |
and stays with different light anti-aircraft batteries pretty much throughout the war. | 0:46:26 | 0:46:30 | |
The job of the light anti-aircraft, | 0:46:35 | 0:46:38 | |
obviously their job is to keep German aircraft away from important positions, airfields, factories, | 0:46:38 | 0:46:44 | |
and, being light anti-aircraft, that was all about the size of the guns. | 0:46:44 | 0:46:48 | |
They had what were called Bofors guns, | 0:46:48 | 0:46:50 | |
with a 40mm shell that they fired. They were very quick. | 0:46:50 | 0:46:53 | |
So they could do a lot of damage very quickly | 0:46:55 | 0:46:58 | |
and did a good job keeping German aircraft away from important places. | 0:46:58 | 0:47:01 | |
-What would he have done in this unit? -What's interesting is | 0:47:01 | 0:47:05 | |
he joins in 1941 and he's promoted very rapidly. | 0:47:05 | 0:47:08 | |
Bearing in mind he's a bricklayer, not a trained soldier, | 0:47:08 | 0:47:11 | |
and he's promoted very quickly to lance bombardier, then bombardier. | 0:47:11 | 0:47:16 | |
Bombardier was the equivalent of corporal in the Army. Eventually, | 0:47:16 | 0:47:20 | |
he reaches the rank of sergeant. | 0:47:20 | 0:47:22 | |
So he must have had a way with men, been good at leadership. | 0:47:22 | 0:47:26 | |
He obviously was well thought of | 0:47:26 | 0:47:30 | |
and was an important guy in his particular battery. | 0:47:30 | 0:47:34 | |
Did he see any action abroad? | 0:47:34 | 0:47:36 | |
Yes, he does. He goes over two days after D-Day. | 0:47:36 | 0:47:39 | |
Obviously on D-Day, there's an enormous crush on the beaches. | 0:47:39 | 0:47:43 | |
You really need to get the infantry and anti-tank units ashore, | 0:47:43 | 0:47:47 | |
and the tanks themselves. | 0:47:47 | 0:47:48 | |
But a couple of days later, you then need to protect that beachhead, | 0:47:48 | 0:47:52 | |
to try and keep the Germans away from it, so you can bring supplies and everything ashore. | 0:47:52 | 0:47:57 | |
Light anti-aircraft batteries are set up to keep the German aircraft away. | 0:47:57 | 0:48:01 | |
So, obviously, this is a very dangerous part of the war. | 0:48:01 | 0:48:05 | |
Absolutely. This is the invasion of Normandy. | 0:48:05 | 0:48:08 | |
It's what everybody's been waiting for since 1940, | 0:48:08 | 0:48:10 | |
a massive, massive effort to take the whole British and American forces | 0:48:10 | 0:48:14 | |
across the Channel, into Europe, to start pushing the Germans back. | 0:48:14 | 0:48:19 | |
This is where they're trying to break in and the Germans are doing everything they can to keep them out. | 0:48:19 | 0:48:25 | |
So, what happened after D-Day? What happened after this point? | 0:48:25 | 0:48:29 | |
Eventually, they break out and start moving across Europe. | 0:48:29 | 0:48:32 | |
By this time, the battery he's attached to spends some time around Dunkirk. | 0:48:32 | 0:48:36 | |
In 1944, the Germans are very keen to hang onto it. It's a port, | 0:48:36 | 0:48:39 | |
they know how important that is. They don't want us having it, because once we've captured another port, | 0:48:39 | 0:48:45 | |
we have another place to bring supplies, | 0:48:45 | 0:48:47 | |
so the Germans are besieged there for a while | 0:48:47 | 0:48:50 | |
and his unit are part of that siege. | 0:48:50 | 0:48:53 | |
Then they carry on moving across through Europe, till they finish the war in Germany. | 0:48:53 | 0:48:57 | |
'But it was far from over for Robert and his fellow soldiers. | 0:48:59 | 0:49:03 | |
'The Allies then had to defend Germany against the Russians, | 0:49:03 | 0:49:06 | |
'who had taken control of half the country. | 0:49:06 | 0:49:09 | |
'No-one really knew what was coming next, | 0:49:14 | 0:49:17 | |
'but anti-aircraft batteries like Robert's were moved into Germany | 0:49:17 | 0:49:21 | |
'to protect the troops from the threat of the Russians.' | 0:49:21 | 0:49:25 | |
What also happens, it tells us in his records, | 0:49:25 | 0:49:28 | |
that he gets attached to the 3rd Infantry Division. | 0:49:28 | 0:49:31 | |
The 3rd Division, they've fought all across Europe, one of the elite assault divisions on D-Day, | 0:49:31 | 0:49:36 | |
and the decision has been made | 0:49:36 | 0:49:38 | |
that they'll be one of the units that go and invade mainland Japan. | 0:49:38 | 0:49:42 | |
Then the atomic bomb arrives and that's the end of that. | 0:49:42 | 0:49:46 | |
But because they've got this very highly-trained unit, they then send them to the next hot-spot. | 0:49:46 | 0:49:52 | |
At that time, that's Palestine. | 0:49:52 | 0:49:54 | |
So, when was the war over for Robert? When did he go home? | 0:49:54 | 0:49:58 | |
Finally, he goes home in February 1946. | 0:49:58 | 0:50:01 | |
He's actually been in the Army for a long time by then. | 0:50:01 | 0:50:03 | |
He joined in 1941. | 0:50:03 | 0:50:05 | |
Pretty much it was first in, first out, unless you'd got a special skill that you had, | 0:50:05 | 0:50:12 | |
that was needed in the civilian world. | 0:50:12 | 0:50:15 | |
Building labourer might not have put him too high up the list. | 0:50:15 | 0:50:18 | |
-It takes him until February 1946 to get home. -Fascinating, thank you. -It's a pleasure. | 0:50:18 | 0:50:24 | |
The revelation that Robert Thomas was an Army sergeant who inspired his men as they fought across Europe | 0:50:26 | 0:50:31 | |
is slightly at odds with the quiet man remembered by his friends and neighbours. | 0:50:31 | 0:50:36 | |
But, having heard his story, | 0:50:36 | 0:50:38 | |
and now, having read his military record, | 0:50:38 | 0:50:40 | |
it's clear Robert was easily capable of being both a courageous and caring man. | 0:50:40 | 0:50:46 | |
Now, to deliver Robert's final legacy, the heir hunters are searching for his surviving family. | 0:50:54 | 0:51:00 | |
The team are making gradual progress on his case, | 0:51:00 | 0:51:03 | |
despite Thomas being one of the most common surnames in the UK. | 0:51:03 | 0:51:08 | |
How many births have we got on that, Noel? | 0:51:08 | 0:51:10 | |
88-year-old Robert Thomas was a widower | 0:51:10 | 0:51:14 | |
who died without leaving a will. | 0:51:14 | 0:51:16 | |
But in a frustrating setback, the team has missed one heir, | 0:51:16 | 0:51:20 | |
Robert's brother, by just hours. | 0:51:20 | 0:51:22 | |
He flew out to Turkey today. | 0:51:23 | 0:51:26 | |
He's got a home in Turkey. | 0:51:26 | 0:51:29 | |
Shame it wasn't tomorrow, isn't it? | 0:51:29 | 0:51:31 | |
Now the team at Fraser & Fraser are racing to find other heirs. | 0:51:31 | 0:51:35 | |
Is this all of them? | 0:51:35 | 0:51:37 | |
-There might be more, but they're the ones in area. -OK. | 0:51:37 | 0:51:40 | |
The search is focused on Robert's other brother Albert, who has died, | 0:51:40 | 0:51:44 | |
but had four children. | 0:51:44 | 0:51:45 | |
He'd married a lady, Iris D Warren, | 0:51:45 | 0:51:48 | |
and they've had several children. | 0:51:48 | 0:51:51 | |
We've identified at least four children so far. | 0:51:51 | 0:51:54 | |
Luckily, one of them is called Iris D Thomas, | 0:51:54 | 0:51:56 | |
which is the name of Albert's wife, | 0:51:56 | 0:51:59 | |
so it's all tying in quite nicely. | 0:51:59 | 0:52:00 | |
New details for the Thomas family tree | 0:52:00 | 0:52:03 | |
show Bob's brother Albert Thomas married Iris Warren in 1953. | 0:52:03 | 0:52:08 | |
The team's found they had five children, | 0:52:10 | 0:52:12 | |
but one was adopted out of the family, so will not be an heir. | 0:52:12 | 0:52:17 | |
Lynda was supposed to be married to Martin. | 0:52:17 | 0:52:20 | |
We've got that address there. | 0:52:21 | 0:52:24 | |
They quickly find an address for one of the sisters, Iris Thomas. | 0:52:24 | 0:52:28 | |
And for the second time today, Bob's off to try and meet an heir. | 0:52:28 | 0:52:33 | |
Hopefully, she will be in contact with all her brothers and sisters, | 0:52:33 | 0:52:38 | |
or sisters, there are no brothers. | 0:52:38 | 0:52:41 | |
And sign her up and get all their details. | 0:52:41 | 0:52:44 | |
Perfect day. | 0:52:44 | 0:52:46 | |
Bob missed the last heir by a matter of minutes. | 0:52:49 | 0:52:51 | |
He's hoping this time the house visit will produce results. | 0:52:51 | 0:52:55 | |
-You're the daughter of Albert. -Yeah. | 0:52:55 | 0:52:58 | |
-Is that right? -Albert, yeah. | 0:52:58 | 0:52:59 | |
And he had brothers Robert and Henry? Is that right? | 0:52:59 | 0:53:03 | |
Yeah, Uncle Henry, yeah. | 0:53:03 | 0:53:05 | |
Right. I don't know if you're aware, | 0:53:05 | 0:53:07 | |
but your uncle Robert, unfortunately died earlier this year. | 0:53:07 | 0:53:11 | |
He never had children. He was married to Winnie. | 0:53:11 | 0:53:13 | |
-That's right, yeah. -Do you want to come in? -Is that all right? | 0:53:13 | 0:53:17 | |
The news of Robert's death has come as a surprise to his niece Iris. | 0:53:17 | 0:53:22 | |
It's just a shock to me to know he'd passed away. | 0:53:22 | 0:53:24 | |
I actually thought he'd passed away before my dad | 0:53:24 | 0:53:27 | |
because we didn't see him for a long time | 0:53:27 | 0:53:30 | |
and we was all saying, even my dad kept saying, | 0:53:30 | 0:53:33 | |
"Bobby must have passed away because he hasn't been in touch." | 0:53:33 | 0:53:37 | |
You know, you do get these things happen, don't you? | 0:53:37 | 0:53:40 | |
Bob Smith fills out the paperwork, which Iris is happy to sign. | 0:53:40 | 0:53:45 | |
I'll have the £90 and you can have the £10. | 0:53:45 | 0:53:47 | |
It's a result. | 0:53:47 | 0:53:49 | |
Finally, Bob's found an heir to the Thomas estate. | 0:53:49 | 0:53:53 | |
Obviously, she was happy to sign a contract with us | 0:53:53 | 0:53:57 | |
and I've got all the details of her sisters, | 0:53:57 | 0:53:59 | |
so good day all round. | 0:53:59 | 0:54:01 | |
In the office, David Pacifico is able to contact Albert's other daughters. | 0:54:01 | 0:54:06 | |
Hello. | 0:54:06 | 0:54:08 | |
My name is David Pacifico of a company called Fraser & Fraser. | 0:54:08 | 0:54:12 | |
We've just been in contact with your sister Iris. | 0:54:12 | 0:54:15 | |
Robert Thomas's nieces will receive half of his estate. | 0:54:15 | 0:54:19 | |
Right, well, as you know, | 0:54:19 | 0:54:21 | |
we've been trying to track down the Thomas family | 0:54:21 | 0:54:24 | |
regarding an estate of an uncle of yours who unfortunately passed away. | 0:54:24 | 0:54:27 | |
While the other half of the estate, | 0:54:27 | 0:54:30 | |
estimated between £20,000 to £40,000, | 0:54:30 | 0:54:33 | |
will go to his brother Henry. | 0:54:33 | 0:54:35 | |
The big rush is that because it's a new job, | 0:54:35 | 0:54:38 | |
you know, potentially it could be competitive, | 0:54:38 | 0:54:41 | |
and I want to make sure we get all our letters out today. | 0:54:41 | 0:54:45 | |
Almost a month later, the heir hunters have learned their gamble was worth it. | 0:54:52 | 0:54:57 | |
Robert Thomas's estate is worth £20,000. | 0:54:57 | 0:55:00 | |
His nieces Iris and Lynda | 0:55:00 | 0:55:02 | |
have both had time to reflect on the unexpected windfall. | 0:55:02 | 0:55:06 | |
I was very shocked to find out that I was going to be a heir, one of the heirs, | 0:55:08 | 0:55:12 | |
because things like that don't happen to people like us. | 0:55:12 | 0:55:16 | |
And we didn't honestly think that Bob had money, did we? | 0:55:16 | 0:55:20 | |
No, as far as we know, | 0:55:20 | 0:55:23 | |
he lived in a little council maisonette in Orpington, | 0:55:23 | 0:55:26 | |
um, and, all right, he might have had a big win on the National, | 0:55:26 | 0:55:31 | |
got the bingo up, or whatever. | 0:55:31 | 0:55:33 | |
Maybe that's what happened. | 0:55:33 | 0:55:35 | |
Or the lottery. | 0:55:35 | 0:55:36 | |
Yeah, obviously, as far as I know, | 0:55:36 | 0:55:39 | |
I didn't even know he had money, to be honest. | 0:55:39 | 0:55:42 | |
The experience has brought back fond memories of Uncle Bob. | 0:55:42 | 0:55:46 | |
When the girls' parents split up and they moved in with their grandparents | 0:55:46 | 0:55:50 | |
Bob would drive round to entertain them. | 0:55:50 | 0:55:53 | |
He used to have three cars, a Morris Minor, | 0:55:53 | 0:55:56 | |
a Volkswagen Beetle, | 0:55:56 | 0:55:59 | |
and then, obviously, the Mini, and the Mini was our favourite of all. | 0:55:59 | 0:56:03 | |
And he used to take us out for a little ride, | 0:56:03 | 0:56:05 | |
every Sunday he'd come, | 0:56:05 | 0:56:07 | |
to Blackwall Tunnel and back. | 0:56:07 | 0:56:09 | |
And it was brilliant. We loved it. | 0:56:09 | 0:56:11 | |
We used to say, "Take us for a ride, Uncle Bob, take us for a ride." | 0:56:11 | 0:56:15 | |
He'd say, "All right, then." | 0:56:15 | 0:56:17 | |
And we'd all pile in the back, | 0:56:17 | 0:56:18 | |
and he'd take us all the way to the Blackwall Tunnel, | 0:56:18 | 0:56:22 | |
which is no journey, really, but when you're a kid, it was a day out. | 0:56:22 | 0:56:26 | |
We loved it, didn't we? Always through the Blackwall Tunnel. | 0:56:26 | 0:56:29 | |
Always the same place. | 0:56:29 | 0:56:31 | |
Always the same ride, yeah. | 0:56:31 | 0:56:32 | |
The sisters have dug out a treasured photo | 0:56:32 | 0:56:35 | |
of Uncle Bob and their dad Albert from the War, | 0:56:35 | 0:56:38 | |
that their grandmother treasured. | 0:56:38 | 0:56:40 | |
The story behind this was, um, | 0:56:40 | 0:56:43 | |
Dad being in the Navy and Bob being in the Army, | 0:56:43 | 0:56:47 | |
they was never home on leave at the same time. | 0:56:47 | 0:56:49 | |
And this particular time, they were both home together, | 0:56:49 | 0:56:53 | |
and Nan got a snapshot of her two lovely boys in uniform. | 0:56:53 | 0:56:56 | |
And this always sat, pride of place, on Nan's mantelpiece, remember? | 0:56:56 | 0:57:01 | |
-Always on her mantelpiece. -In that old-fashioned frame. | 0:57:01 | 0:57:04 | |
-Yeah, it was lovely. -They look so young, don't they? | 0:57:04 | 0:57:08 | |
Look at the lovely uniforms and that. Lovely. | 0:57:08 | 0:57:12 | |
With no children himself, | 0:57:12 | 0:57:14 | |
Bob was happy to spend some of his hard-earned cash on his nieces. | 0:57:14 | 0:57:20 | |
Quite exciting when Bob used to come down, wasn't it? | 0:57:20 | 0:57:23 | |
Yeah, always used to give us our pocket money. | 0:57:23 | 0:57:26 | |
We always used to thought he was rich, didn't we? | 0:57:26 | 0:57:29 | |
Well, we did, because he had no children, I suppose, | 0:57:29 | 0:57:32 | |
whereas our dad had to watch every penny he had. | 0:57:32 | 0:57:35 | |
And I suppose, Bob, not having children, | 0:57:35 | 0:57:38 | |
would give us sixpence here and there, | 0:57:38 | 0:57:40 | |
and we just took it for granted | 0:57:40 | 0:57:42 | |
that he was a cash cow at that point in our lives. | 0:57:42 | 0:57:45 | |
What was it? Ten shillings, wasn't it? | 0:57:45 | 0:57:48 | |
Sometimes a ten-shilling note, yeah. | 0:57:48 | 0:57:50 | |
Now almost 20 years have passed | 0:57:51 | 0:57:54 | |
since Iris and Lynda have seen Bob, | 0:57:54 | 0:57:56 | |
and they wish they'd been able to pay their respects to a much-loved uncle. | 0:57:56 | 0:58:01 | |
I miss not being able to say goodbye | 0:58:01 | 0:58:03 | |
and going to his funeral, that I do miss. | 0:58:03 | 0:58:06 | |
Yeah, definitely. | 0:58:06 | 0:58:07 | |
Because it's something you need to do to someone in the family. | 0:58:07 | 0:58:12 | |
-Yeah, it's respect, isn't it? -But we've got good memories. -Yeah. | 0:58:12 | 0:58:16 | |
I haven't got a tissue on me. Don't start blubbing. Come on. | 0:58:20 | 0:58:23 | |
I'm all right, Iris. | 0:58:23 | 0:58:25 | |
If you would like advice about building your family tree | 0:58:29 | 0:58:33 | |
or making a will, go to: | 0:58:33 | 0:58:37 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:58:56 | 0:59:00 | |
E-mail [email protected] | 0:59:00 | 0:59:04 |