Johnson/ Jones Heir Hunters


Johnson/ Jones

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Transcript


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Today the Heir Hunters are racing to track down the heirs from an estate worth £37,000.

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Their job now is to beat the competition

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and be the first to find the long-lost relatives

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who have no idea they could be in line for a windfall.

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-Could they be knocking at your door?

-BUZZER

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I like where it's all staying in one area for us.

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It's absolutely all over the place.

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On today's programme -

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the hunt for one man's descendants

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leads the heir hunters on a nationwide search.

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We're covering every county in the country,

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and that's usually a very bad sign from our point of view.

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The heir hunters investigate

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the £225,000 estate of Arthur William Jones.

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But in the process, uncover his tragic life story.

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Though Arthur hadn't died in the Second World War,

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his life really had ended as anybody else would have known it.

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And how you could be entitled to unclaimed inheritance,

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where heirs need to be found.

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Could you be in line for a cash payout?

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Every year in the UK over 300,000 people die without leaving a will.

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If no relatives are found,

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then any money that's left behind will go to the Government.

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And last year they made £14 million from unclaimed estates.

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But there are over 30,000 specialist firms competing to stop this happening.

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They are the heir hunters and they make it their business

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to track down missing relatives and help them claim their rightful inheritance.

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The people that we trace are entitled to this money

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and we like to try and do all that we can to make sure that they get it.

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It's Thursday morning in London, and overnight the Treasury has

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advertised a new list of names of unclaimed estates.

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But today things are going to be a little different for staff

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at heir hunting company Fraser & Fraser.

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Yeah, OK.

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Partner Neil is using an alternative list of names that is only

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published every two or three months.

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So what we're working today are a few cases which are slightly

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different than our standard Treasury cases.

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They're Duchy of Lancaster cases.

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The Duchy of Lancaster is actually the Queen, the Monarch.

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Um, this means that the money

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doesn't directly go to the Government, it goes to the Queen.

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This actually goes into her own personal coffers.

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The Duchy of Lancaster is one of two Royal Duchies in England.

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The other is the Duchy of Cornwall, and these are traditionally

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used to provide income for the British monarch.

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This revenue comes from the people who die intestate within

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certain parts of these districts, where the land is still owned by the Crown.

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Another difference from Treasury cases is that Neil knows exactly what an estate's worth.

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It's 37,000.

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With Duchies, we still get given the value on the cases.

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However, they're generally a lot smaller than the Treasury cases.

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So 37,000 is still in our budget to, to work.

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What Neil means is that chasing a case of £37,000 is financially viable for the company,

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as long as they can turn it around quickly.

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If they can keep the manpower, timescale and resources used to find David Johnson's heirs to a minimum,

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it will mean there's a profit in it for the heir hunters.

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Get in touch with Dave Hadley and send him there.

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Wanting a speedy result,

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Neil hands the estate over to senior case manager, David Pacifico.

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OK, bye.

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David has over 40 years experience at heir hunting

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and if anyone can turn this case around quickly, it's him.

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Neil and David share what information they have so far.

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-What was the date?

-18.04.56.

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Initial research into the death records has given them

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a speculative date of birth for the deceased -

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a good starting point for the heir hunters.

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I've got a Duchy case out today of a David Johnson. Bye.

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David Johnson died aged just 53 on the 25th of January, 2010.

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He left no will and no known relatives.

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He died alone in his Manchester flat

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and was discovered by friends who alerted the police.

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It was a sad end for a man renowned for his sense of humour

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and love of life.

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His friend David Fisher remembers a vibrant character

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who he first befriended over a crossword puzzle down the pub.

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The first time I met him, 28 years ago. And he was happy, outgoing.

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Loved his cigarettes, loved his beer. All the time, happy.

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We had great laughs together.

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In the week, David Johnson was a biochemist.

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But on the weekends,

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his greatest pleasure was walking in the great outdoors.

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David and his friends ventured from the Yorkshire Moors to the Lake District,

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looking for good walks and good pubs.

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But at the end of 2009, David Johnson

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dropped off his friend's radar and stopped visiting his old haunts.

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Towards the end of David's life...

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he became almost invisible.

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You couldn't see him.

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He disappeared, as though he'd moved to another part of the town.

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But he hadn't.

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He was actually suffering from an undiagnosed cancer and started avoiding his friends.

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It was only by chance that David Fisher saw him in hospital.

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But it was obvious his old friend didn't want to talk.

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I think he'd pretended he hadn't seen me, yeah.

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Which was a bit sad, really because, you know,

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we weren't distant friends or anything.

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We were pretty close at the time.

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So maybe he was just a bit frightened of expressing himself.

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When David Johnson finally sought medical help for his cancer,

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he was told it was terminal.

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And just two weeks later he died.

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The day in the hospital was the last time I saw him alive.

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I never got to say any goodbyes,

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you know, or try and cheer him up a bit,

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take him on a bit of a camping holiday.

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You know, he sort of retired into himself. He wouldn't go anywhere.

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David Johnson left behind friends who miss him.

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But for the heir hunters, it's about whether he left any family as well.

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What's the time now?

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David Pacifico is already on the hunt for David's heirs.

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The team's initial research into the death register suggest that

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even although the deceased passed away in Manchester,

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there was a David Johnson born in April, 1956, in London that could be their man.

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Can I get Jo to go to Islington Registry Office?

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David Johnson's birth certificate is crucial to the hunt.

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On it will be his parents' names - a must-have when tracking down heirs.

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David Pacifico puts in a call to researcher Jo who is

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out on the streets of London, ready to visit any register office

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the team needs her to.

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Could you go to Islington Registry Office and pick up the birth,

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hopefully, on one of them?

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At this early stage, all the team's research is speculative,

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including the deceased's date of birth.

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Well, hopefully born on the 18th of April.

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And if that's the case, we'd also have the parents names.

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But we need that birth.

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From the team's initial research,

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they think David's parents could be an Alan Johnson and an Edna Daniels,

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although they won't know this for sure

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until they get their hands on his birth certificate.

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But because David died relatively young,

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there is a possibility his parents outlived him.

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Roger is hard at work.

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Well, hopefully, we've got the right David Johnson birth,

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and if we have, I'm just seeing

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if the parents are still alive as he's not that old a person.

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So...I'll have a look around and see if there's any...

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any Ednas and Alans still together.

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Roger finds a potential marriage for David's parents,

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but despite this, it's all still a bit confusing.

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He was born in, er, London.

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His potential parents are also married in London,

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but he died in Manchester.

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So he might have gone on his own, or they might have all gone,

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so it's still a stab in the dark at the moment.

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But case manager David Pacifico knows you have to speculate to accumulate,

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and his team have found a potential last address for the deceased.

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If it's correct then they may have tracked down a neighbour who knew David Johnson.

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We're trying to trace the next of kin of a David Johnson.

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At this stage,

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any additional information will be welcomed by the heir hunters.

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All right. Thank you. Bye-bye.

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The phone call fills in details,

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but details that don't help David Pacifico in his hunt for heirs.

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Well, we've got the right address for the deceased,

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but I believe he'd only been living there for a few years

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and she had absolutely no knowledge where he came from, any family or anything like that.

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Everything is still up in the air.

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Are David Johnson's parents still alive?

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And even if they are, is the team even chasing the right family?

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All they can do is speculate and plan for every eventuality.

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-How are we doing, Roger?

-We're trying to track down the parents, yeah.

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-What about siblings?

-Doesn't look like there are any.

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I think that if Jo picks up the birth, just obviously, you know, do it one bit at a time.

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-Yeah.

-Can you hold the door for me, sir, while you're there?

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Fortunately, across the office, researcher Gareth is making headway.

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Even though again, it's headway of a speculative nature.

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Very speccy cos we haven't got any certificates.

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We don't even know if the parents we've got of the deceased are correct,

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but if it is, there's a Ronald born in 1931.

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Um, having trouble finding a marriage for him. So, again, speccy.

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I've possibly got his son,

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so that would be a potential cousin of the deceased.

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Er, trying to track him down now. His name's Ian Ronald Daniels.

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To kick-start this hunt, the team are investigating the maternal line.

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Using David's mother's maiden name of Daniels, Gareth has

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potentially found Edna's birth in Sheffield.

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If this is correct, it would make her parents

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a Frederick Daniels and Agnes Brown.

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He then searched for other children from their marriage

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and has come up with a brother Ronald who has passed away

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but left living children.

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Gareth passes on his tentative lead.

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He has two children - Stephen and Ian Ronald Daniels.

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Born in Sheffield?

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-I think.

-Epping?

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Despite this promising lead,

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the team's hunt is still far from finished.

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All the research into David's cousins could prove useless

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if they discover his parents are still alive,

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as they would be the rightful heirs to his estate.

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To add to their worries, the speculative family tree

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Gareth's putting together is all over the place.

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We've got a deceased who died in Manchester, born in Islington,

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potential parents Wood Green, which is fine, goes with the birth,

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and then the mother potentially born in Yorkshire.

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So, we're gradually covering the entire country.

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Now, if my Ronald marriage is right, which is a long stretch, really,

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then he married in Hertfordshire and his children are in Essex.

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So, we're gradually covering every county in the country.

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It's frustrating stuff

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when you're working on a case you know is worth £37,000.

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And Gareth isn't the only one feeling it.

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I'm losing the will to live here.

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There it is, see, Rhodri had it.

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David now has a phone number for the potential cousin of the deceased.

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But he's in for yet more frustration.

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Unobtainable.

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The phone number doesn't work. David is back to

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waiting on the birth certificate

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for confirmation that they are chasing the right family.

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Researcher Joe has ordered the certificate

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from Islington Register Office, but has to wait until they've found it.

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How are you getting on with that birth, any...?

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Right, on the basis that it's right,

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we think the parents may have got married in Wood Green,

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which is Haringey.

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Would you mind possibly going over there afterwards?

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Until David Pacifico can confirm his family tree and the cousins

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they've found, he has frustratingly little

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for his travelling heir hunter to do.

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Bob Barratt is one of the company's squadron of senior researchers

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who are willing to go

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wherever a case takes them in the hunt for heirs.

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Their goal is to meet face to face with long-lost relatives

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and hopefully get them to sign up with the company.

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But for the time being, Bob will have to wait like everyone else

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for David Johnson's birth certificate.

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It's crucial for confirming that

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the basic details for this case are correct,

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and not leading the heir hunters on a wild goose chase.

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And, birth certificate aside, the team still doesn't know for certain

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what's become of the deceased's parents.

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If we get that second Christian name, we might be able to do a bit more,

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but we are worried that she's still alive.

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Born 1924, so she could be in a home.

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Yet again, it's more guesswork, and until the team start getting

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some firm answers on this case,

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all their initial research could be in vain.

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Later in the programme, the team may have found David's cousins,

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but they still haven't found his mother.

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My own feeling is that I think she could be alive.

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Heir hunting companies don't always source unclaimed estates

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from the Treasury or the two royal duchies. Sometimes, they will be approached by solicitors

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acting on behalf of a deceased client.

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But no matter where a case comes from,

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the heir hunters' role is the same - to track down long-lost relatives

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and inform them of their rightful inheritance.

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Arthur William Jones died in January 2011 in a nursing home in Cardiff.

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Arthur was 90 years old when he passed away,

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and with no known relatives and no known will,

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his mammoth £225,000 estate went unclaimed.

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Arthur had been in College Fields Nursing Home for eight years,

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and matron Rachel Kemp thought of him as one of the family.

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Arthur, he was a gregarious sort of chap once you got him going!

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And he loves singing songs that would have been war songs.

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Daisy, Daisy was one of his favourites,

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so if you wanted to get Arthur wound up,

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if you started singing Daisy, Daisy, he would start singing with you.

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But Arthur was unfortunately very ill.

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Before College Fields, he'd been in a mental hospital since 1979...

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..and had been diagnosed with schizophrenia and dementia.

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Other than this, most of his past was a complete mystery to Rachel

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-and the other staff.

-We knew nothing of Arthur's background,

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only that he'd been a long, long-stay patient in Whitchurch Hospital

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and that he'd been wounded in World War II.

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That was the sum total of Arthur's history as far as we were concerned.

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After his death,

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Rachel and a solicitor appointed to Arthur's estate tried in vain

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to trace any family he may have had.

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Hitting a dead end, the solicitor decided to contact

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heir-hunting company Fraser & Fraser to see

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if they'd have more luck finding the heirs

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to Arthur's sizeable £225,000 estate.

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It's almost certainly going to be in Cardiff, isn't it?

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Bob Smith is one of the company's case managers,

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and the job of finding Arthur's heirs fell on his desk.

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Obviously, the deceased had died without making a will,

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and there were no family members, apparently,

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that were in contact with him,

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certainly no family members that visited him

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-in the nursing home when he died.

-In the first instance,

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Bob wasn't too happy about working a name like Arthur William Jones.

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Jones is one of the most common surnames in Wales,

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and solving cases with this name are notoriously difficult

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for the heir hunters.

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But Bob was given a head start.

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Amongst the papers given to us by the solicitors was a copy of our deceased's birth certificate.

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That obviously has his parents' names on it.

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From there, we were able to identify their marriage in 1906.

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Arthur's parents were George Jones and Laura Maud Rich.

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Bob's next task was to identify

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whether they had any children apart from Arthur.

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Using the details gathered from the marriage certificate,

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he trawled the birth records and struck gold.

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There were eight children.

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So, Arthur had in fact had four brothers and three sisters.

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Bob's problem was they were all called Jones,

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and all born in Wales, but luck was on his side again.

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Amongst the deceased's papers were mention of three family members.

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These were the initials and surnames of a suspected brother,

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niece and nephew.

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From the paperwork, Bob discovered the name J Jones matched up

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to Arthur's brother on the 1911 Census records.

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Now the team worked the niece's initials and surname.

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By using the birth and marriage records,

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they found who could be J Jones' daughter,

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and therefore, Arthur's niece.

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But it was a long shot.

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On a hunch, we then located that lady,

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and she did in fact turn out to be

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the niece who was named in the deceased's papers.

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Bob had found his first heir,

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and she was able to tell him crucial information about the family.

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And having interviewed her,

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we confirmed that two of those children died in infancy,

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so that left five siblings to our deceased

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where there were possible descendents.

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Arthur was from a military family,

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and when the Second World War broke out in 1939,

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both he and his brothers were at a prime age

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for conscription into the Army.

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But according to the niece Bob had found,

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Arthur returned from the war a shell-shocked and broken man,

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an affliction that was still haunting him into his 80s.

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His trauma from the war was witnessed first hand

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by his nursing home's matron Rachel Kemp.

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Initially on coming in to us, Arthur was obviously a gentleman

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who was quite disturbed, and would be able to have

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a normal or semi-normal conversation with you

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and then would get very distressed.

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Would shout out about being in the trenches,

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about Hitler was coming, things like that.

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Over 50 years later,

0:20:140:20:17

and Arthur's experiences of war were still haunting him.

0:20:170:20:20

After his death, matron Rachel tried her hardest to piece together

0:20:200:20:24

the tragic story of his adult life

0:20:240:20:25

and what led him to College Fields Nursing Home.

0:20:250:20:29

We found out the fact that he was wounded at 24.

0:20:310:20:35

And although Arthur hadn't died in the Second World War,

0:20:360:20:39

his life really had ended as anybody else would have known it,

0:20:390:20:43

because he became homeless, he became isolated from his family.

0:20:430:20:50

Ended up in a mental hospital.

0:20:500:20:51

So, life had had major repercussions for Arthur

0:20:510:20:55

because he'd been a soldier.

0:20:550:20:57

So, what had happened to Arthur during his war years

0:20:580:21:01

that was so traumatic, it stayed with him for the rest of his life?

0:21:010:21:04

For heir hunter Bob Smith, this question would have to wait.

0:21:070:21:10

His aim now was to track down the children of Arthur's other siblings,

0:21:130:21:17

as they would also be the heirs to Arthur's £225,000 estate.

0:21:170:21:21

Later in the programme, the family Arthur had lost touch with remember

0:21:250:21:29

just how traumatised their late uncle was by the war.

0:21:290:21:33

He would want us all to get under the table and hide

0:21:340:21:38

and get very distressed if we didn't.

0:21:380:21:42

Heir hunters solve thousands of cases a year,

0:21:470:21:51

and millions of pounds are paid out to rightful heirs.

0:21:510:21:54

But not every case can be cracked.

0:21:540:21:56

The Treasury has a list of over 2,000 estates that have baffled heir hunters and remain unsolved.

0:21:560:22:02

Could you be the heir they've been searching for?

0:22:020:22:05

Could you be in line for a windfall worth hundreds,

0:22:050:22:08

thousands or even millions of pounds?

0:22:080:22:10

Estates stay on the list for up to 30 years,

0:22:110:22:14

and today we're focussing on three names.

0:22:140:22:18

Are they relatives of yours?

0:22:180:22:20

Margaret Grant-Paxton died in East Sussex in September 1996.

0:22:200:22:26

She passed away in the Eastbourne District General Hospital.

0:22:260:22:29

Does her distinctive double-barrelled name mean

0:22:290:22:32

anything to you?

0:22:320:22:33

Or did you know Herbert Fallows Worsnop?

0:22:360:22:39

He died in March 2001 in Hampshire.

0:22:390:22:42

He may have passed away in the south of England,

0:22:430:22:46

but the vast majority of Worsnops live in and around Yorkshire.

0:22:460:22:49

If no heirs are found to his estate, the money will go to the Government.

0:22:500:22:54

Or finally, Mabel Presence,

0:22:560:22:57

who died in Camberwell Green in London back in 1994.

0:22:570:23:02

Are you Mabel's heir? Her surname is extremely rare in the UK.

0:23:020:23:06

If the names Margaret Grant-Paxton, Herbert Fallows Worsnop

0:23:090:23:12

or Mabel Presence mean anything to you,

0:23:120:23:15

then you could have a windfall on its way.

0:23:150:23:17

David Johnson died aged 53 in January 2010.

0:23:230:23:27

He passed away alone in his Manchester flat

0:23:280:23:30

and left no will and had no known relatives.

0:23:300:23:33

David had been diagnosed with terminal cancer,

0:23:330:23:36

and died just two weeks later.

0:23:360:23:38

He'd been ill for a while, but had kept it to himself,

0:23:380:23:41

and was loath to seek help.

0:23:410:23:43

He never actually went to a doctor's, and in that case,

0:23:450:23:49

when he did go to the doctor, it was a bit too late for the poor man.

0:23:490:23:54

And sadly, he passed away very quickly after that.

0:23:560:23:59

It was an unceremonious death for a man who loved life.

0:23:590:24:03

At the local pub where the two friends met regularly,

0:24:030:24:06

David was renowned for his dry humour and quick mind.

0:24:060:24:10

Everyone would be talking and he'd just say something off the cuff

0:24:100:24:15

and it'd throw everybody into turmoil then.

0:24:150:24:18

We'd all be laughing and joking.

0:24:190:24:21

He was a very bright, intelligent person.

0:24:210:24:24

In London, the heir hunters are working

0:24:280:24:31

David Johnson's £37,000 estate.

0:24:310:24:33

Because David died in Manchester, his name has been released

0:24:350:24:39

on the Duchy of Lancaster's list, not the Treasury's.

0:24:390:24:42

Unclaimed estates from areas of land owned by the monarchy

0:24:440:24:47

in the district of Lancaster go to the Crown, not the Government.

0:24:470:24:51

But the way the company tracks down heirs is exactly the same.

0:24:510:24:54

I've got a Duchy case out today of a David Johnson. Bye.

0:24:560:25:00

-Senior case manager David Pacifico and his team...

-Hello.

0:25:020:25:05

..are having a nightmare trying to confirm

0:25:050:25:07

even the most basic of David's personal details.

0:25:070:25:11

Why is nothing working today?

0:25:110:25:13

With no birth certificate yet for the deceased,

0:25:150:25:18

they're using a family tree based on an educated hunch.

0:25:180:25:21

So far, using the maternal line, they've managed to trace

0:25:230:25:26

but not yet contact two cousins in Essex who will be heirs

0:25:260:25:30

if the team can prove David's parents have passed away.

0:25:300:25:33

Not an easy task.

0:25:340:25:35

Born 1924, so she could be in a home.

0:25:360:25:40

But across the office, things have taken a positive turn.

0:25:400:25:44

Researcher Gareth thinks he's found a phone number for David Johnson's mother's brother's widow.

0:25:440:25:49

Got your tree?

0:25:490:25:50

Bit of a mouthful, but it's music to David Pacifico's ears.

0:25:500:25:53

We're trying to trace a particular family of the name of Daniels.

0:25:560:25:59

Now, would I be right in saying that you were married to a Ronald Daniels?

0:25:590:26:03

And did Ronald have a sister Edna?

0:26:040:26:06

Do you know whether or not she's still alive

0:26:080:26:11

or anything at all about her family at all?

0:26:110:26:13

Finally, even without David's birth certificate,

0:26:130:26:17

the team has confirmation

0:26:170:26:19

they've been chasing the right family all along

0:26:190:26:21

and their initial guesswork was spot on.

0:26:210:26:25

David Pacifico gets as many details as he can from the ex-sister-in-law.

0:26:250:26:29

-Bye-bye.

-But there's one answer she can only guess at.

0:26:310:26:35

She thinks that Edna herself may have passed away,

0:26:350:26:38

but she's not certain about it.

0:26:380:26:40

Until they confirm whether David Johnson's parents are alive or dead,

0:26:400:26:45

the heir hunt is still up in the air.

0:26:450:26:47

David brings Gareth up to speed.

0:26:470:26:49

Basically, this is all correct. Yeah. Ronald was one of two children.

0:26:500:26:56

Edna was married to Alan Johnson. They only had one child, David.

0:26:560:27:01

She says that Edna went into a home, thinks she may have died,

0:27:020:27:06

but she's obviously not certain.

0:27:060:27:07

So, we still could be talking about a mother.

0:27:070:27:10

But the question is who deals with her affairs, if that's the case.

0:27:100:27:13

All right. OK, bye.

0:27:140:27:16

Downstairs, the team double their efforts to find a death certificate

0:27:170:27:22

for Edna Johnson. Upstairs, David has his own thoughts about it.

0:27:220:27:26

-My own feeling is that I think she could be alive.

-Only time will tell.

0:27:270:27:31

So, while he waits for confirmation on Edna's predicament,

0:27:330:27:36

David uses a phone number given to him by the sister-in-law

0:27:360:27:39

and puts in a call to a cousin of the deceased.

0:27:390:27:42

We're looking into an estate of somebody

0:27:430:27:46

that has recently passed away -

0:27:460:27:47

in this case we're talking about her son.

0:27:470:27:49

Yeah. Your cousin, in other words.

0:27:510:27:54

The cousin may be a potential heir, but that will only be known

0:27:540:27:58

if he can shed some light on what's happened to Edna.

0:27:580:28:00

OK, thank you, bye-bye. Bye.

0:28:020:28:04

Unfortunately, the cousin is still just a potential heir,

0:28:040:28:08

as he can't give David any definitive answers on Edna.

0:28:080:28:12

But there are other snippets of information he's provided

0:28:120:28:14

that will help the hunt.

0:28:140:28:16

That was the cousin. He knew that David was last known to be up north.

0:28:160:28:19

He thought Manchester or Newcastle,

0:28:190:28:21

but thought it might have been Manchester, which is right.

0:28:210:28:24

His mother lived in Blackpool, and his father was also Blackpool.

0:28:260:28:30

His father's definitely dead.

0:28:300:28:32

He knows that Edna went into a home,

0:28:320:28:34

so with Blackpool, I will hopefully ask them to see if they can check

0:28:340:28:38

to find out if we have got any possibilities of deaths in Blackpool.

0:28:380:28:43

That now cuts it down an awful lot.

0:28:430:28:45

If there's no death, that means that she's possibly still alive.

0:28:450:28:48

The location of Blackpool could be the key that unlocks this case.

0:28:490:28:54

David heads downstairs to pass on his latest lead about Edna

0:28:540:28:57

and her late husband Alan.

0:28:570:28:59

Gareth, can you see if you can identify

0:28:590:29:01

a death of Alan Johnson in Blackpool 22 to 25 years ago?

0:29:010:29:06

But Edna was also Blackpool.

0:29:060:29:07

Can we pick her up on any electoral roll or death?

0:29:080:29:11

This new information allows the heir hunters

0:29:130:29:15

to significantly narrow their search.

0:29:150:29:19

Gareth gets stuck into researching the records in Blackpool

0:29:190:29:23

and strikes gold.

0:29:230:29:24

-Edna, otherwise Edna Laetitia...

-Oh, it's right?

0:29:250:29:29

..dies on 8th May 1997.

0:29:290:29:31

Excellent.

0:29:310:29:32

So, if that's correct, as it looks good,

0:29:320:29:36

we'll then be back to this cousin again.

0:29:360:29:38

The cousins look like they're going to be entitled.

0:29:380:29:40

So, one side of the family is known, but of course,

0:29:400:29:44

we then have to look at the Johnson side,

0:29:440:29:46

because the father may well have had brothers and sisters

0:29:460:29:49

and, subsequently, children.

0:29:490:29:50

They may have had children,

0:29:500:29:52

so there is unknown possible other beneficiaries on this.

0:29:520:29:56

Gareth switches his attention to

0:29:580:30:00

David Johnson's father's family tree.

0:30:000:30:03

And now David Pacifico knows for sure that

0:30:030:30:05

the deceased's two cousins are heirs,

0:30:050:30:07

he puts in a call to travelling heir hunter Bob Barratt,

0:30:070:30:10

who has been on stand-by all morning.

0:30:100:30:12

He lets him know he potentially has a meeting for him in Essex.

0:30:140:30:18

Bye.

0:30:200:30:21

Bob Barratt is available, traveller,

0:30:250:30:27

so I know I've got somebody that can go.

0:30:270:30:30

Happy things are finally falling into place,

0:30:310:30:33

David lets the rest of the office know the good news.

0:30:330:30:37

We're up to date on one of the Duchy cases.

0:30:370:30:39

But things are never that easy.

0:30:390:30:41

It turns out the two cousins are willing to meet Bob,

0:30:420:30:45

but it can't be today.

0:30:450:30:46

David hurriedly organises a meeting for the following day.

0:30:480:30:52

The good news is that neither cousin has been contacted by

0:30:520:30:56

any competing heir-hunting companies.

0:30:560:30:58

David Pacifico hopes it stays that way.

0:30:580:31:00

I haven't come across any competition yet,

0:31:010:31:03

but that doesn't mean to say it may not come.

0:31:030:31:06

It's day two of the hunt.

0:31:100:31:12

In the office, the team are still trying to work out

0:31:120:31:15

if the paternal side of David's family will produce any heirs.

0:31:150:31:18

Meanwhile, a travelling heir hunter has made it to the meeting

0:31:200:31:23

with David's two cousins.

0:31:230:31:25

At the moment, they are the only two heirs on David's mother's side

0:31:250:31:29

to his £37,000 estate.

0:31:290:31:31

Bob Barratt is now tied up on other cases,

0:31:320:31:35

so David Pacifico has drafted in Dave Hadley.

0:31:350:31:38

-Hello there, Mr Daniels?

-Yeah.

0:31:400:31:42

Hi, Dave Hadley from Fraser & Fraser.

0:31:420:31:44

First on the agenda is cross-checking with the heirs

0:31:440:31:48

the information the office has passed on to him.

0:31:480:31:50

-And where was that? Was it in Blackpool?

-That was in Blackpool.

0:31:500:31:53

For the cousins, the news of David's death has come as quite a shock,

0:31:550:31:58

knowing he was only in his early 50s.

0:31:580:32:01

Didn't even know David was ill, how he died.

0:32:010:32:04

Don't know, but we can find that out.

0:32:040:32:06

Both cousins are happy to sign with the heir hunters.

0:32:090:32:12

This means the company can help them

0:32:120:32:13

in making a claim to the Duchy of Lancaster,

0:32:130:32:15

and are then entitled to commission on the cousins' share of the estate.

0:32:150:32:19

We hadn't talked in 20 years,

0:32:210:32:22

it's a bit of a surprise to get a phone call out of nowhere.

0:32:220:32:26

Despite not having spoken for decades,

0:32:270:32:30

there was no big family bust-up or arguments.

0:32:300:32:32

The cousins speculate it was more geographic than anything.

0:32:320:32:36

We had different lifestyles, totally.

0:32:370:32:40

He liked living in Manchester, we like living in the south.

0:32:410:32:45

The two cousins, Stephen and Ian,

0:32:450:32:48

will now be entitled to a proportion of David's £37,000 estate.

0:32:480:32:53

But it's an estate they will now share.

0:32:530:32:55

In the weeks following the initial hunt,

0:32:550:32:58

David Pacifico and his team traced an aunt on the paternal side.

0:32:580:33:02

She's in her 90s and is the final heir to inherit on this case.

0:33:030:33:07

David Johnson may have lost contact with his family

0:33:090:33:12

in the decades before his death,

0:33:120:33:15

but the friends he left behind can give them some idea

0:33:150:33:18

as to the type of man he'd become.

0:33:180:33:20

We'd all be laughing and joking,

0:33:210:33:23

David would come out with some real crackers, Dave would.

0:33:230:33:26

He'd get everyone laughing within a few minutes.

0:33:260:33:29

Everyone looked up to him, he was a dead decent chap.

0:33:290:33:33

Arthur William Jones died in a Cardiff nursing home aged 90.

0:33:430:33:47

He left no will

0:33:470:33:48

and no known relatives to inherit his £225,000 estate.

0:33:480:33:53

Most of his past life was a mystery to those who cared for him

0:33:540:33:57

in his final years.

0:33:570:33:59

We knew nothing of Arthur's background,

0:33:590:34:01

only that he'd been a long, long-stay patient in Whitchurch Hospital.

0:34:010:34:04

And that his experiences in the Second World War

0:34:060:34:09

had traumatised him for life.

0:34:090:34:11

He would get very distressed at times and would should out

0:34:110:34:14

about being in the trenches, about Hitler was coming, things like that.

0:34:140:34:20

The job of finding Arthur's heirs fell to

0:34:230:34:27

probate researcher Bob Smith.

0:34:270:34:28

Hunting heirs to an Arthur William Jones born in Wales is a tall order,

0:34:300:34:34

as Jones is one of the most common Welsh surnames.

0:34:340:34:38

Despite this, Bob discovered Arthur had had seven siblings,

0:34:400:34:44

five of which had survived into adulthood.

0:34:440:34:46

Using paperwork that came with the estate,

0:34:480:34:50

Bob found his first heir, a niece of Arthur's,

0:34:500:34:54

and her family knowledge helped him move his hunt forward.

0:34:540:34:57

It is almost certainly going to be in Cardiff, isn't it?

0:34:570:35:00

Using Arthur's mother's name of Laura Maud,

0:35:010:35:04

he searched the birth records

0:35:040:35:06

and found a sister of Arthur's who was also called Laura Maud.

0:35:060:35:09

She had stayed in Cardiff, and had two children.

0:35:110:35:13

One of whom was Lorraine Sergeant, another of Arthur's nieces.

0:35:140:35:20

She was able to provide great information in relation to all of the deceased's family

0:35:200:35:24

and particular about deceased himself and his life.

0:35:240:35:27

Niece Lorraine may have been extremely helpful to Bob,

0:35:270:35:30

but initially the whole thing came as a shock to her.

0:35:300:35:33

My immediate reaction was, "nothing to do with us."

0:35:360:35:40

My sister phoned up and said about it, we were both dumbfounded to be quite honest.

0:35:400:35:46

Right out of the blue.

0:35:460:35:49

Lorraine used to occasionally bump into Arthur around Cardiff,

0:35:490:35:53

but lost touch.

0:35:530:35:55

Her fondest memories of her uncle went back to her childhood.

0:35:550:35:59

He used to come and stop with my grandmother

0:35:590:36:03

and very fond memories of him at that stage.

0:36:030:36:07

But he was a very sick person.

0:36:070:36:09

Yes, he had problems stemming from the war.

0:36:110:36:16

It turned out Arthur had enlisted in the army in 1939,

0:36:200:36:24

aged just 19-years-old,

0:36:240:36:26

just before the outbreak of the Second World War.

0:36:260:36:29

At this stage, he was a healthy young man.

0:36:290:36:32

He was in the First Battalion Welsh Regiment

0:36:340:36:37

and was initially based in Palestine before being posted to Egypt

0:36:370:36:42

and the infamous El Alamein

0:36:420:36:44

as part of the Allies' Western Desert campaign.

0:36:440:36:48

El Alamein is a town in northern Egypt where between 1940 and 1942

0:36:520:36:57

crucial battles were fought by the Allies against Italian and German forces.

0:36:570:37:02

The Allies ultimately succeeded and halted their advance into Egypt,

0:37:030:37:08

eventually forcing the Italians and Germans West.

0:37:080:37:11

It was in this world that a 21-year-old Arthur found himself.

0:37:150:37:18

It appears that something happened during this period of conflict that deeply affected him.

0:37:180:37:24

What it was is not exactly known by the family,

0:37:250:37:28

but niece Lorraine does remember one story.

0:37:280:37:31

We understood him to have been out on a patrol.

0:37:320:37:37

His best friend had stepped on a landmine and been blown to pieces.

0:37:390:37:44

He was affected by that from then onwards.

0:37:460:37:51

Once described as an honest, sober and hard-working soldier,

0:37:530:37:57

by 1943 his military record had begun to deteriorate.

0:37:570:38:01

In March 1945,

0:38:020:38:05

Arthur was declared permanently unfit for military service.

0:38:050:38:09

Statistics suggest that as many as a fifth of World War II veterans

0:38:090:38:14

suffered from some sort of emotional trauma, and that is just the ones who reported it.

0:38:140:38:18

People experiencing things that they had never experienced before,

0:38:240:38:28

thinking the world is a benevolent place

0:38:280:38:30

and then seeing how awful human beings can be towards each other.

0:38:300:38:33

But then also serving in conflict after conflict,

0:38:340:38:38

so it is a general wearing down of their capacity to be able to cope as well.

0:38:380:38:43

The experience of trauma and how it presented itself was not particularly well understood

0:38:480:38:52

although it was better that it had been.

0:38:520:38:54

But also the fact that these were men of their era

0:38:540:38:57

and were unlikely to have admitted to experiencing emotional distress.

0:38:570:39:02

The kinds of symptoms that they would have exhibited

0:39:020:39:06

when they came back from war might have been anger,

0:39:060:39:09

they might be acting out elements of their experiences

0:39:090:39:13

because they were feeling as if they were back in that situation.

0:39:130:39:18

Nightmares, depression,

0:39:200:39:22

not being able to perform their job effectively, becoming very withdrawn,

0:39:220:39:27

all of those sort of symptoms would have been noticeable.

0:39:270:39:32

As a child, Lorraine can clearly remember her uncle displaying signs of his trauma,

0:39:330:39:39

and also the lengths the family would go to to accommodate his illness.

0:39:390:39:43

When the aeroplanes went over or there was any police noises or

0:39:440:39:49

anything he would want us all to get under the table and hide

0:39:490:39:55

and get very distressed if we didn't.

0:39:550:39:58

He was a very nervous person.

0:40:000:40:02

And despite the family's best efforts to care for Arthur,

0:40:040:40:07

it eventually proved too much for his mother to cope with.

0:40:070:40:10

She found it very, very difficult, not being able to take him out

0:40:120:40:17

for fear of him, you know, having a bad turn or something like that.

0:40:170:40:22

Then he went to stay at the hospital.

0:40:230:40:25

Arthur and his family's situation were sadly all too common in the post-war years.

0:40:270:40:33

He was just one of many men who found it extremely difficult

0:40:330:40:36

to slot back into everyday life.

0:40:360:40:38

It would have had a very shattering effect on the family,

0:40:390:40:43

they would never have been able to have the relationships

0:40:430:40:46

they would have liked to have had with each other.

0:40:460:40:48

Having an uncle whose life was effectively over at 24

0:40:480:40:52

and whose illness meant normal relationships were nearly impossible

0:40:520:40:56

is a tragedy that caused Arthur to finally disappear

0:40:560:41:00

from his family's lives.

0:41:000:41:01

All the things he has missed, you know, he never had his own family, never had his own home.

0:41:030:41:08

He was just forgotten, to be quite honest with you.

0:41:100:41:12

Even from my point of view, I forgot about him

0:41:120:41:17

once my mother passed on and... He just got forgotten.

0:41:170:41:24

It wasn't just Arthur's heirs who were saddened by their late uncle's life.

0:41:250:41:30

For Bob Smith, Arthur's story also struck a chord.

0:41:300:41:33

Presently in the media there is a lot of coverage about soldiers

0:41:350:41:39

that fight on behalf of their country in all parts of the world

0:41:390:41:43

and how they are looked after, there are many charitable causes,

0:41:430:41:46

quite rightly, for those soldiers.

0:41:460:41:48

But of course, Arthur himself was a victim of the generation he was brought up in.

0:41:480:41:54

They obviously didn't receive the same sort of support as they do know and I find that quite upsetting.

0:41:540:42:01

Overall, Bob found 13 heirs to Arthur's £225,000 estate.

0:42:020:42:08

An estate that could potentially have been made up of over 60 years worth of untouched war pension.

0:42:080:42:14

The legacy of the Second World War ruined both men and their families.

0:42:160:42:21

And for Lorraine, Arthur's life is a sad indictment

0:42:210:42:24

of the lack of support for men who served their country.

0:42:240:42:27

He never had nothing, I feel really, really strongly that these people, these boys,

0:42:290:42:35

because he was only a boy, he wasn't a grown man, he wasn't...

0:42:350:42:40

He hadn't seen nothing of life, and he came back and he was just left

0:42:400:42:45

and I think it was such a shame, a real waste of a life, really.

0:42:450:42:51

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